Brakes: Manual 11" Drum brakes

[Pat Dilling]

I am moving finned 11" drum brakes from a '64 Cruiser to my '54 Conestoga wagon. Decision I have to make is what master cylinder to use. I also have the dual master cylinder and power booster from the Cruiser, but will need to re-enforce the firewall and hang the pedal. Alternative is to convert to a dual master cylinder under the floor. The Conestoga was able to stop with the little Champ manual brakes. It should stop with fine with the finned 11 inchers, but I am wondering about pedal pressure.

Thoughts please? Thanks

[r1lark]

Pat,

On my '54 4-door Champion with 259 V8 swap, I upgraded with the brakes from a '62 GT Hawk which would be the same as yours except for the automatic adjusters. I reused the original Champion master cylinder since it was rebuilt and the same as the Hawks and V8 cars. I think the pedal pressure is just fine without a booster, plenty of feel.......but I'm not a big fan of power boosters anyway.

[JoeHall]

I believe modern shoe lining material, sold to classic car owners now days is inferior to that of yester-decade. It may not cause cancer, but it also will not stop your car very well.
I just converted the last shoe-ed Stude I own to DB. I had driven that car 273,000 miles with shoes, including about 10,000 miles of towing other Studes and trailers. I recall that car's OEM brakes being quite sufficient, back in the day. However with the last shoes, installed a couple of years ago, I found myself in the middle of a few intersections because the brakes just would not stop the car very well. Those shoes provided minimal initial grab, and rapid fading; I would not have attempted to tow anything with those brakes.
However, modern brake pads come in a variety of materials, and many are very efficient. So, I am thinking if a person took his shoe cores to a brake specialty shop, and demanded "top shelf" liner, he might have to pay more, but would get a better pair of shoes. Currently, shoes being vended OTC are likely lined with "bottom shelf" liners, or at least I am willing to bet the last set I bought was.
Many modern car owners are aware that, when it comes to pad lining, there is "good, better and best". It seems we have gown old and forgotten the same is true for shoe linings.
So Pat, bottom line, the 11" finned drum brakes will do just fine, as long as the shoes have "top shelf" liners, which does not seem readily available from ar least some current Stude parts vendors.

[Warren Webb]

Back in the days of my youth I put the bigger V-8 brakes from a 57 Silver Hawk on my 59 Lark 4 door sedan. I really dont think it mattered much but my feeling would be classed under "bigger is better." As Joe just posted today is another story. When I did that swap I didnt change the master cylinder & disc brakes were just coming around (1965-67 is when I had that car). I wonder if the later owners had trouble getting the right parts for that car for what I had changed in it! V-8 brakes, OHV 6 from a 1961, front sway bar when none was on the car when it was made and so on. If anyone here knows (or knew)of a seamist green 59 Lark 6 (not a Regal) automatic that fits this description I'd like to hear about it since it was my first car & was given to me by my dad.

[brian6373]

Hey Pat, If it was me I think I would re-enfoce the firewall and go with the Cruiser set-up. I'm planning on up-grading my '63 cuiser to power brakes from the manual because, even though it stops just fine with the 11" drums, to lock them up you really need to stand on them. My brand-x vehicles all have power brakes and a little toe pressure stops them right now! Power brakes, I think, allows a more precise brake modulation for stopping smoothly. The reason I'd mount the hanging pedal set-up is that "down-the-road" it's a lot easier to service everything in the engine compartment than to have to crawl under the car.
Brian

[SN-60]

I believe modern shoe lining material, sold to classic car owners now days is inferior to that of yester-decade. It may not cause cancer, but it also will not stop your car very well.
I just converted the last shoe-ed Stude I own to DB. I had driven that car 273,000 miles with shoes, including about 10,000 miles of towing other Studes and trailers. I recall that car's OEM brakes being quite sufficient, back in the day. However with the last shoes, installed a couple of years ago, I found myself in the middle of a few intersections because the brakes just would not stop the car very well. Those shoes provided minimal initial grab, and rapid fading; I would not have attempted to tow anything with those brakes.
However, modern brake pads come in a variety of materials, and many are very efficient. So, I am thinking if a person took his shoe cores to a brake specialty shop, and demanded "top shelf" liner, he might have to pay more, but would get a better pair of shoes. Currently, shoes being vended OTC are likely lined with "bottom shelf" liners, or at least I am willing to bet the last set I bought was.
Many modern car owners are aware that, when it comes to pad lining, there is "good, better and best". It seems we have gown old and forgotten the same is true for shoe linings.
So Pat, bottom line, the 11" finned drum brakes will do just fine, as long as the shoes have "top shelf" liners, which does not seem readily available from ar least some current Stude parts vendors.

I couldn't agree more with Your comments on modern day brake shoes....I've experienced this.....and it's a real concern to owners of drum brake vehicles!

[junior]

Pat, I would be inclined to keep the system as designed, meaning keep the lark system all lark including the hanging pedal. Then you will have the advantage of the dual master cylinder (good) in the engine compartment (nice) with the proper sized bore and booster size(let the engineers to the work)...so ,as you said, the only part you need to figure out if beefing up the mounting point which really should not be a huge deal seeing how you`re going through the entire car anyways and the front clip is off and engine and trans have vacated their living quaters....regards, Junior.