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View Full Version : Lets do some Studedebaker bench racing...



junior
01-04-2013, 09:37 PM
Earlier today in the Stove Huggers forum, sweetoldbob started a thead about a restored Super Duty Pontiac A/FX Tempest which cut high 11's back in the day. Bob Palma replied with the fact that a pure stock R-3 will run mid 12's through the system on stock rubber. Question, what do ya figure a car like the PBW would run with good gas, modern sticky slicks, open headers,any chassis mods and a real good tune? The car is still street legal, not tubbed nor caged, no nitrous. Any Stude produced engine parts allowed, so the best heads, cam, intake, springs, ignition, pistons etc. that came out of the factory could be used. Any 3spd auto, or classic 3 or 4 spd manual trans could be used. No Lencos or Jerico (sp?) racing trannys, but racing clutches and crazy-stall torque converters allowed. I guess the bottom line here is, the car has to be all Stude motor, but be allowed to take advange of all the knowledge gained in the last 40 years regarding chassis set up, rubber compounds etc. How quick to you think it would be? What combo of parts would you use? Lets hear from you. Junior

BobPalma
01-04-2013, 09:59 PM
Interesting topic, Greg. I do want to clarify that the cars at The Pure Stock Drags, including The Plain Brown Wrapper, already run "good gas," the 103 or 105 (IIRC) octane racing fuel sold there at the track for about $6 a gallon. I don't think you could put better gasoline in those cars.

I'm not sure the car could be tuned any better, either; George and Ted have spent a lot of time experimenting with blower belt and blower ratio combinations, carburetor jetting, and such.

Ironically, unless it was changed this year and I didn't know it (and I don't think it was), The Plain Brown Wrapper is still running the stock Prestolite dual-point ignition system! Yep; points ignition! (You can run breakerless Pertronix-type ignition if you want, but it must fit under the stock distributor cap and look stock from under the hood.)

Traction bars would be a legitimate improvement, since no fancy under-the-axle traction bars are permitted. You can clamp leaf springs if you want, but that's about it.

Good discussion. We'll see what others have to say. :cool: BP

PackardV8
01-04-2013, 10:16 PM
so the best heads, cam, intake, springs, ignition, pistons etc. that came out of the factory could be used.

First of all, with fifty-year-old technology, it's amazing we're going as quick and fast as we are. With the current horsepower of the PBR, but just adding slicks it would difficult to see better than in the low-12-sec @120 MPH.

However, there's another world out there. Look stock, but use 21st century tech. Built to Factory Appearing Stock Tire rules, http://fastraces.org/ that is light forged big bore pistons, billet stroker crankshaft, $5000 ported heads, extrude-honed intake and exhaust, custom roller cam, Carillo rods, lots of dyno time, someone with deep enough pockets to have a support truck with a new high output supercharger, pulleys and drive belts for each run, it could be in the low-10-sec @ 130 MPH.

The best F.A.S.T. cars cost $100,000 and up to build and run. It ain't for CASOs.

jack vines

junior
01-04-2013, 10:36 PM
Bob Palma...your post this morning really got me thinking. I just wonder how stout one could make a Stude produced engine for drag racing, and what would happen with modern chassis technology and rubber. Somewhere recently, probably HOT ROD, I read that John Dianna made the comment years back that you could never get a car to run in the 9`s with a wimpy 10 inch slick, and now through crazy power levels, new tech rubber compounds, and high tech chassis there are cars in the 8 second bracket with 10 inch slicks. If one were to apply the same knowledge to an all Stude engined car I wonder how stout the results would be. Not to take anything at all away from Ted and George, they are true masters of tuning to get the times they do, but they do have to follow pure stock rules, not even the more liberal stock appearing rules, so they basically have to do what they do with a power limited chassis and less than stellar traction. Maybe I need to modify my original post, but what I was doing was basically day dreaming about what if...you take a stock production Stude, probably an R-3, give the heads some crazy port work, some modern profiles and stupid lift on the cam, super stout springs, spin that blower to within an inch of it`s life, and hook it all to a chassis that has the fattest, stickiest rubber that can fit in the fender wells and have a chassis that can hook...how quick would the car be? Even though when in comes to American iron, I`ve always been a die-hard chubby lover, but have alway rooted for underdogs....say stuff like a Stude, or AMC. To have a stock appearing-grocery getting Stude walk all over something like a Hemi Cuda would put a smile on my face that would last a long long time. I have neither the knowledge, nor funds to have a stock appearing Stude that could mess-up some of the classic muscle cars, however if I won the lottery you can bet this would become a pet project. Cheers, Junior.

sweetolbob
01-04-2013, 10:56 PM
From the 2006 Hot Rod Mag, the Chicken Hawk looked like this:

Engine: 1963 289 cu. in. Studebaker
Dual turbos
Dual stock Studebaker AFB sealed carburetors
Home made tunnel ram intake
Heads have R3 valves installed
Bottom end is stock
Transmission: GM Turbo 400
Rear end: Nine inch Ford, 3.70 gears
Tires: MT 31 x 10.5 x 15 slicks
Weight: 3600 lbs (car with driver)
Best ET: 10.07 seconds @ 137.80 mph

So I guess you just need to find a Turbo supplier that can put a Stude logo on the turbos. The data would seem to agree with Jack V's response though.

Bob

Flashback
01-04-2013, 10:58 PM
Then again, when it all jells, a Stude. can get into the nines. Thissen does.

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/Flashback53/boburt017.jpg

PackardV8
01-05-2013, 12:19 AM
Then again, when it all jells, a Stude. can get into the nines. Thissen does.

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/Flashback53/boburt017.jpg
Yes, those two are the quickest Studes ever, but with many non-Stude, non-stock-appearing parts and thus not germain to the original post. A GMC supercharger nitro burning Stude 6-second rail job is always a possibility
jack vines

K-Hawk
01-05-2013, 12:38 AM
I would think for less than 100.000 you could build a powerful 283 engine and transmission and put it in a 65-66 cruiser ( I am not sure when they started using the Chevy engines) and have a pretty fast car. If someone were inclined to build that sleeper with an ok if it is not all stock attitude you can get a very powerful sbc Chevy engine and put it and the right tranny into a cruiser and have a very fast car that looks good with the hubcaps on. This months Turning Wheels has great information stock studes and how fast they are going.

Flashback
01-05-2013, 09:58 AM
Yes, those two are the quickest Studes ever, but with many non-Stude, non-stock-appearing parts and thus not germain to the original post. A GMC supercharger nitro burning Stude 6-second rail job is always a possibility
jack vines

You are right Jack. I didn't follow the rules. pardon mr Junior. I guess I will just have to wait til I get the saturday night special back together and post a time slip. Ah shucks, can't do that either, it has aftermarket parts. O, well I will just go out in my playhouse for a while.

junior
01-05-2013, 10:39 AM
You are right Jack. I didn't follow the rules. pardon mr Junior.

Really not a problem Tex, as I`m not even sure of my own rules! I guess the bottom line is how quick could one make a stock appearing (no body mods, no major interior mods like a cage) stude-engined Studebaker run?

This 9 sec. Stude you make mentiion of...got any other photos of it...what body is it in?

Regards, Junior.

sals54
01-05-2013, 10:40 AM
Question.... did the A/FX Pontiacs use only stock factory parts? Or did they use some of the race only parts set aside for "off road use only" crowd? If we're talking about the A/FX and the Ford Thunderbolts and other related type cars, would that not open our entry to all the "Factory Authorized" parts and tech used to set the Bonneville records? Twin blowers, fuel injection, special built parts, etc, etc, etc??? Imagine the list of components the Granitellis had for the race cars of the day?? Let open those parts bins and play some games.

junior
01-05-2013, 10:44 AM
I would think for less than 100.000 you could build a powerful 283 engine and transmission and put it in a 65-66 cruiser ( I am not sure when they started using the Chevy engines) and have a pretty fast car. If someone were inclined to build that sleeper with an ok if it is not all stock attitude you can get a very powerful sbc Chevy engine and put it and the right tranny into a cruiser and have a very fast car that looks good with the hubcaps on. This months Turning Wheels has great information stock studes and how fast they are going.

Ya, that thought crossed my mind, but then when others saw a SBC under the hood they`d just figure a Stude engined car could not post quick times.

sweetolbob
01-05-2013, 10:49 AM
Question.... did the A/FX Pontiacs use only stock factory parts? Or did they use some of the race only parts set aside for "off road use only" crowd? If we're talking about the A/FX and the Ford Thunderbolts and other related type cars, would that not open our entry to all the "Factory Authorized" parts and tech used to set the Bonneville records? Twin blowers, fuel injection, special built parts, etc, etc, etc??? Imagine the list of components the Granitellis had for the race cars of the day?? Let open those parts bins and play some games.

Sal

From the HAMB are the 1966 rules.

http://www.selectric.org/ahra/1966rules/12.jpg

It looks like no blower etc in the FX classes.

Bob

sals54
01-05-2013, 07:23 PM
Hey Bob, I dig what you're saying, but my observation stands. What else was in the Granitellis parts bins that would be on the table for an A/FX build? Surely, with Andy's knowhow, we could have parlayed some of that onto the dragstrip instead of the salt.
Just wondering what a Granitelli '67 Sceptre, all decked out for a street fight, would have been like on the track??? Oh, the dreams... Studebaker died too young.