Engine: Wet plugs on flathead 6, probably dumb question...

[deco_droid]

Hey guys -- okay, this is my first "issue" where the car won't run. What happened was there was a heater hose hanging into the carb rod, so I was going to cut about an inch or so off one end so it wouldn't hang so low and thus, fix the problem.

Well, when I started into one end of the hose, it started falling apart as I twisted it off the fitting. No big deal, I had towels down and all, but I was not expecting this much fluid to come out. It was like a gusher! I ended up losing about a half gallon of coolant before it stopped. Question why so much fluid came out of a top hose, I guess can be asked at a later time, but anyway, what ultimately happened was coolant dripped down into the low spots where the sparkplugs are seated. I soaked it up as best I could, but after replacing the hose, I went to start the car and it would not start.

Brilliant deduction I know, but I assume the coolant must have gotten the plugs wet, causing them not to fire. So never having owned a flathead before, I've never had this "experience" before. Dumb question is -- will the plugs dry out on their own eventually? Do I need to pull them and clean them? Do I need to replace them, and if so, do I just put the new ones in and I'm good to go?

I have gapped and changed plugs before but they were on v8s and v6s, so I'm just unfamiliar with the process on a flathead 6. Thanks for any info.

[gordr]

Water in the spark wells alone absolutely will not prevent the car from starting. Water on the white porcelain insulators sure will. Sop up the water in the wells with paper towels, and use dry paper towels to dry the insulators thoroughly. If water got up into the spark plug rubber boots, a shot with brake cleaner will clear it out. Dry the boots with a twist of paper towel afterward.

I suspect that your flood might have gotten the distributor wet inside. Pop the cap off, and dry it the same way.

You got your flood because the top of the engine is below the top of the radiator.

[41 Frank]

When you wiped off the plugs you may not have gotten all the antifreeze off. Clean them once more with a moist rag to get the remaining antifreeze off, antifreeze does not evaporate on its own. If the plugs were tight in the head no way would antifreeze have gotten in the engine that way. If it still does not start check for spark and fuel being present.

[deco_droid]

Thanks guys -- when I get off work today I will use your advice. Everything looked dry last night after I soaked all the puddles up, but I guess some coolant could have splattered up into the plug boots. It was late and I didn't want to touch anything else until I checked in with the experts.

[PackardV8]

If it was running before, a bit of coolant on the head does not necessitate pulling the spark plugs. When the ignition system is in good shape, I've seen flatheads run with the spark plug wells in the head level full of coolant.

Do you have an air compressor? Use a blow gun around the plugs, pull the distributor cap and blow out any moisture from within the distributor and cap.

jack vines

[deco_droid]

Okay, I checked the plugs and distributor and they are all dry. But looking around, I did notice a wire coming off the firewall and looks to connect to the carb. Not sure if it is a ground wire or what, but I can't find anywhere in the manuals what this is. I will try to load a photo I took for reference.

[deco_droid]

okay, there's what i'm looking at. it looks to me like it has frayed and broken off from that black thing on the left side of the carb there. so... 1. what is it? 2. can i reattach this or do i need to order a new part to make a good connection. 3. is this what's causing the car to not start?

thanks again, guys...

[gordr]

It looks like some sort of switch that is designed to ground when the carb is at an idle, My best guess is that it is part of the anti-creep device in the automatic transmission. It shouldn't have anything to do with spark.

Do your basic troubleshooting. Pull the coil wire from the center tower of the distributor cap, hold it 1/4" away from the engine block, and have a helper crank the engine (ignition on). You should see hot blue sparks. If no spark, or such a weak one that it doesn't appear until you have nearly closed the gap to zero, your problem is most likely ignition points or condenser. Might be the coil, but they fail a lot less often than the cheaper parts.

If you have a good spark at the coil wire, put it back in the distributor, and take a spare spark plug, connect it to each plug wire in turn, and try the same test, being sure to ground the shell of the spark plug. You should get a good spark out of each plug wire. If not, suspect cap or rotor problems, or bad plug wires. Maybe antifreeze seeped into the wires where they go through the metal wire loom.

[deco_droid]

It looks like some sort of switch that is designed to ground when the carb is at an idle, My best guess is that it is part of the anti-creep device in the automatic transmission. It shouldn't have anything to do with spark.

Do your basic troubleshooting. Pull the coil wire from the center tower of the distributor cap, hold it 1/4" away from the engine block, and have a helper crank the engine (ignition on). You should see hot blue sparks. If no spark, or such a weak one that it doesn't appear until you have nearly closed the gap to zero, your problem is most likely ignition points or condenser. Might be the coil, but they fail a lot less often than the cheaper parts.

If you have a good spark at the coil wire, put it back in the distributor, and take a spare spark plug, connect it to each plug wire in turn, and try the same test, being sure to ground the shell of the spark plug. You should get a good spark out of each plug wire. If not, suspect cap or rotor problems, or bad plug wires. Maybe antifreeze seeped into the wires where they go through the metal wire loom.

Thanks, Gord -- That sort of makes sense because the "anti-creep" feature has been sort of iffy lately. I guess it just worked itself loose. I will see if I can maybe solder it back together, or find some other way to reattach it.

So that means my non-running issue is something else. Well, the last time I drove it I guess I "rattled some things loose", because it just happened to be the longest drive I have taken in the car since I bought it (70 miles) -- and it was the first time I took it up to about 60mph for an extended period. So I guess I have some maintenance to do now.

I have never really had to do any troubleshooting before, but I will try what you suggested to see what is not right. Hopefully it's just the points or something relatively simple like that. Thanks.

[deco_droid]

Just thinking before I get too far into this -- it probably wouldn't hurt for me to go ahead and get new plugs, plug wires, points and condenser, since they all look to be fairly old. Are those the sort of parts I can get locally at a NAPA or similar store, or do I need to put in an order to SI or some other vendor? I would like to get quality parts, but they don't necessarily need to be show quality correct. Thanks.

[deco_droid]

Okay, I thought I would change the sparkplugs and wires first and see if the car will run, before I start changing anything in the distributor. I looked online for the plugs and there are two autolite plugs that it says will work on the commander engine -- one is an oe style copper core non-resistor type, and one is a copper core resistor type. Is there any preference for either type?

Also, I noticed SI has two types of plug wires for this engine -- copper core and a silicone type. What type are you guys buying and/or using? Thanks much.

[Mrs K Corbin]

check that stupid little wire inside the distributor too...

[Dan Timberlake]

I think I'd start by checking for spark. First stage with a new spark plug with a real wide gap in the coil wire removed from the dist cap while cranking. If it looks good there, I'd put the test plug in one of the plug wires with all the plugs still in place.

[deco_droid]

check that stupid little wire inside the distributor too...

DEFINITELY!

And yes, Dan, I just haven't had a chance to get started doing what troubleshooting I can until Saturday most likely. I was just going to change out the plugs for new ones because I know they are old. When I pulled the caps on them, they had green corrosion like on a battery. The car had been running pretty good up until I took off on the freeway last week for a high speed run, so I'm not sure what "broke" but I am guessing it's something with the distributor. When I was driving it back home the last time, it was really stumbling at stoplights, like it wanted to stall out. Anyway, if I get over my head, I'll try calling a gearhead friend of mine to see if he can help. Also, if anyone here is in the North Texas Stude region, let me know. I have emailed a couple of their members several times and no one has replied. If nothing else I'll look up some youtube how-to troubleshoot videos and see what I can manage. Thanks much.

[deco_droid]

It looks like some sort of switch that is designed to ground when the carb is at an idle, My best guess is that it is part of the anti-creep device in the automatic transmission. It shouldn't have anything to do with spark.

Do your basic troubleshooting. Pull the coil wire from the center tower of the distributor cap, hold it 1/4" away from the engine block, and have a helper crank the engine (ignition on). You should see hot blue sparks. If no spark, or such a weak one that it doesn't appear until you have nearly closed the gap to zero, your problem is most likely ignition points or condenser. Might be the coil, but they fail a lot less often than the cheaper parts.

If you have a good spark at the coil wire, put it back in the distributor, and take a spare spark plug, connect it to each plug wire in turn, and try the same test, being sure to ground the shell of the spark plug. You should get a good spark out of each plug wire. If not, suspect cap or rotor problems, or bad plug wires. Maybe antifreeze seeped into the wires where they go through the metal wire loom.

Okay I'm back to trying to figure this problem out. I pulled the coil wire to check for spark, and did each individual plug wire as well. Each time I got a spark, but I am not well versed enough to know what a "good" spark looks like. It didn't look blue to me, just a clear spark. Does a non-blue spark mean my problem is electrical for sure? Just as a reminder, the car ran fine for weeks until one day I took it out on the freeway and drove it 60mph for the first time. Thanks much.

Oh also, just checked a couple other non-Stude sites and they are saying if it's not a blue spark, the coil is suspect #1. Is this about right? I am 99% sure the coil is original to 1950.