Interior: Seat Belt anchor locations- 57 vs later Hawks with factory belts

[bsrosell]

I purchased the templates for the seatbelt installation in front and rear of the "Hawk" and "Lark" cars, applicable to early 60s? (by they way, I'm using NOS Stude-Packard belts from ~early 60s, NOT the door-mounted type offered in '57)

Wondering if there were any changes in either the
a) seat rail location between a a 57 Golden Hawk and later Hawks?
or
b) any reason the seat belt anchors would be offset differently?

If I used the template measurements, the "spot" to drill is significantly away from the line of my seat rails. Where-as in the drawing in the template, if you use the same measurement (11" in from door sill I think?) it is directly behind the seat rail....

I know it doesn't sound like a big deal, "try it and see", but I've got hog troughs to drill through (and then have to weld up and grind and finish again) so only want to do this once. Will probably cut out one of my cross-braces so i can install the front seat and just make sure it wil slide through without binding on something, but thought I'd ask in case anyone has done a 57 Hawk and noticed this offset in location between the template drawing and the 57 seat rails, and know if it MATTERS or not.
thanks!

[SN-60]

To: bsrosell,-----This doesn't answer Your question.....but I wonder if Studebaker used that door-mounted outside belt BECAUSE of the underfloor boxes interfering with that outer belt?
(The boxes would only be an issue on the 'K' bodies though....and I believe the door mount outer seatbelt was used across the board in '57.)

[Welcome]

I purchased the templates for the seatbelt installation in front and rear of the "Hawk" and "Lark" cars, applicable to early 60s? (by they way, I'm using NOS Stude-Packard belts from ~early 60s, NOT the door-mounted type offered in '57)

Wondering if there were any changes in either the
a) seat rail location between a a 57 Golden Hawk and later Hawks?
or
b) any reason the seat belt anchors would be offset differently?

If I used the template measurements, the "spot" to drill is significantly away from the line of my seat rails. Where-as in the drawing in the template, if you use the same measurement (11" in from door sill I think?) it is directly behind the seat rail....

I know it doesn't sound like a big deal, "try it and see", but I've got hog troughs to drill through (and then have to weld up and grind and finish again) so only want to do this once. Will probably cut out one of my cross-braces so i can install the front seat and just make sure it wil slide through without binding on something, but thought I'd ask in case anyone has done a 57 Hawk and noticed this offset in location between the template drawing and the 57 seat rails, and know if it MATTERS or not.
thanks!

Not quite clear what you're trying to accomplish or even what all you are working with. Let's start over...

So, you have newer (circa early 60's) design NOS Studebaker-Packard set of seat belts and you are trying to install them in an older ('57 K-body) vehicle which had different seat belts designed for it. Correct??? Which templates are you using ...for the newer design seat belt installation ...or the older design???

TIA

[bsrosell]

Lot easier with photos, isn't it? Went out and since I just got my seats recovered, slipped that in place to check too.
If you see the photos and the blue tape marked A and B, A is where you'd put the anchor to line it up with the seat rail on my 57 GHawk. "B" is the instructions (for later Hawks) prescribed 11". From the intructions photo, appears the belt goes up and OVER the seat frame as well, so that my define where my anchor goes anyway, as well as the fact that if I go all the way out to "B" I am in danger of being outside the torque box (Hog trough) and above the frame. Too bad, could ALMOST put it outside the torque box, ABOVE the frame (as long as I remembered to install while Body off the car :- ) but just too far "in"... so will cut the torque box I guess. The photo with the anchor is about where I think I have to put it, and the inner set, I'll have to have slightly aft of "parallel' with the outer set to properly fit the narrower transmission tunnel on the 57. Don't want that torque tube hitting the anchors!!!!
Does this look right, anyone who's done belt so on their 56-58 Hawks??

[Welcome]

Lot easier with photos, isn't it? Went out and since I just got my seats recovered, slipped that in place to check too.
If you see the photos and the blue tape marked A and B, A is where you'd put the anchor to line it up with the seat rail on my 57 GHawk. "B" is the instructions (for later Hawks) prescribed 11". From the intructions photo, appears the belt goes up and OVER the seat frame as well, so that my define where my anchor goes anyway, as well as the fact that if I go all the way out to "B" I am in danger of being outside the torque box (Hog trough) and above the frame. Too bad, could ALMOST put it outside the torque box, ABOVE the frame (as long as I remembered to install while Body off the car :- ) but just too far "in"... so will cut the torque box I guess. The photo with the anchor is about where I think I have to put it, and the inner set, I'll have to have slightly aft of "parallel' with the outer set to properly fit the narrower transmission tunnel on the 57. Don't want that torque tube hitting the anchors!!!!
Does this look right, anyone who's done belt so on their 56-58 Hawks??

I see …you’re definitely dealing with an "apples & oranges" project …trying to install NOS front seat belts designed for a Hawk with factory bucket seats and floor pan designed for a 1 pc. driveshaft in an older Hawk having a factory front bench seat and floor pan designed for the older 2-pc. driveshaft. I could email you a copy of the actual Studebaker Engineering drawing used for ’56 & ’57 Hawks seat belt installations (bench seat) on the assembly line, but that would do little good with your current "apples & oranges" project.

Hopefully, somone will chime in with a few "modification ideas" for you.

Good Luck!

[studegary]

I think that I see one major problem. You are making measurements from the door sill plates. You are using a template for the later Hawks for the measurements. This will not work for 1953-1957 K body or Hawks. The earlier cars used a wide sill plate, like in your picture. The later Hawks used a very narrow sill plate. This will throw your measurements off by three to four inches.

[bsrosell]

Welcome, if you have drawings for the 56-57 Hawk, I would think the mounting for the INNER (over torque tube) would be the same, would it not?? And, both bench seats.... That would be helpful. I realize the door-mounted belt info is not applicable (I just can't convince myself to use that design, when one of the major purposes of the belt is to keep YOU in the car!)
Also, does yours have the rear seat belts? I honestly am not sure if rear belts were even an option 57, or only those door mounted front sets....
Thanks for the replies.

I see …you’re definitely dealing with an "apples & oranges" project …trying to install NOS front seat belts designed for a Hawk with factory bucket seats and floor pan designed for a 1 pc. driveshaft in an older Hawk having a factory front bench seat and floor pan designed for the older 2-pc. driveshaft. I could email you a copy of the actual Studebaker Engineering drawing used for ’56 & ’57 Hawks seat belt installations (bench seat) on the assembly line, but that would do little good with your current "apples & oranges" project.

Hopefully, somone will chime in with a few "modification ideas" for you.

Good Luck!

[bsrosell]

Ahhh! That is news to me, and that would explain the big discrepancy.... I didn't the mounting location for a 'bucket' seat would change that much in a Hawk over 2 or 3 years!
thanks!!

I think that I see one major problem. You are making measurements from the door sill plates. You are using a template for the later Hawks for the measurements. This will not work for 1953-1957 K body or Hawks. The earlier cars used a wide sill plate, like in your picture. The later Hawks used a very narrow sill plate. This will throw your measurements off by three to four inches.

[Welcome]

>>>I would think the mounting for the INNER (over torque tube) would be the same, would it not??

Nope!!! Completely different belts ...completely different mounting system ...completely different mounting locations. The INNER belt mounting holes for a '57 Hawk should be located 7" either side of the longitudinal centerline of the tunnel.

>>>Also, does yours have the rear seat belts? Thanks for the replies.

Sorry, that Studebaker Engineering drawing only covers FRONT SEAT BELTS

[bsrosell]

OK, 7" DOWN from the top centerline of the tunnel? in circumference measurement I assume? How far back and from what referenc point?
What did they use for an anchor, again, my only concern here (besides being generally close and functional) is not being too close to the U-joint or torque-tube in there, so the '57 drawing for the inner front seat belt anchor would be useful for that if you don't mind emailing it to me. Interesting and educational at the very least! Thanks Welcome!
Barry

Nope!!! Completely different belts ...completely different mounting system ...completely different mounting locations. The INNER belt mounting holes for a '57 Hawk should be located 7" either side of the longitudinal centerline of the tunnel.



Sorry, that Studebaker Engineering drawing only covers FRONT SEAT BELTS

[Welcome]

OK, 7" DOWN from the top centerline of the tunnel? in circumference measurement I assume?<<<Barry

horizontal plane.

Barry, this Studebaker Engineering drawing is the controlling document for installation of Front Safety Belts on ALL 1956 & 1957 Studebakers (not just the C-K models) at the factory. The actual size of the original drawing is 3 feet by 8 feet and that type of drawing is known as a "Layout

[bsrosell]

THANKS!!! (no, no power seat, just the standard slide bench....)
I really appreciate you taking time to send it.
I'm an engineer, so always get a charge out of seeing these old factory blueprints our babies were made from originally anyway. Like that one I ordered for the motor mount for supercharged engines, that had "use sledge hammer and pound approximately 1/8" dimple here" :- )

[Welcome]

THANKS!!! (no, no power seat, just the standard slide bench....)
I really appreciate you taking time to send it.
I'm an engineer, so always get a charge out of seeing these old factory blueprints our babies were made from originally anyway. Like that one I ordered for the motor mount for supercharged engines, that had "use sledge hammer and pound approximately 1/8" dimple here" :- )

Hey Barry, the email I sent you with that blueprint attachment was too large for your inbox and has bounced back. Have you a different email address with larger inbox capacity ...or can possibly clear some things from your current inbox? Let me know.

PS: While I'm at it; IF ...anyone else would like to receive via email attachment a copy of this Studebaker Engineering blueprint showing how & where Front Seat Safety Belts were installed at the factory, simply use our new email address in the signature box (below) and put "Safety Belt Blueprint" in your subject line. This one blueprint covers ALL '56 & '57 MODEL Studebakers.

[bsrosell]

thanks Welcome, the print was very interesting, but as you said, very different style than later so not really applicable. (I'm still glad you sent it to me! :-)
So, I just set it all up with a seat in place, gave a little extra room (farther back where it widens a bit) at the tranny tunnel so hopefully no chance of the torque-tube hitting the anchor plates, and cut access panels in the torque boxes... Will spray some primer or rust-eater in there before welding it back up again. Guess I'll tack weld the anchor plates inside the torque boxes too; no-one will ever be touching them again (or have access to them!) and certainly don't want them coming loose in there!
Thanks for the help from everyone.

Now to work on the rear-seats; I think the later Hawk seat-belt install drawing will be more applicable there, but will install the seats to fit-check before drilling just in case. (measure twice, drill once?)

[studegary]

[QUOTE=bsrosell;685819
So, I just set it all up with a seat in place, gave a little extra room (farther back where it widens a bit) at the tranny tunnel so hopefully no chance of the torque-tube hitting the anchor plates, and cut access panels in the torque boxes...
Now to work on the rear-seats; I think the later Hawk seat-belt install drawing will be more applicable there, but will install the seats to fit-check before drilling just in case. (measure twice, drill once?)[/QUOTE]

Now you have my curiosity up. What type of driveline transplant are you making that will use a torque-tube (rather than a Studebaker drive shaft)?