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View Full Version : Body: Any advice on removing dents HERE? Lucky day comes to an end with a BANG



bsrosell
09-15-2012, 09:35 PM
Well, the day was going to good I guess. Found NOS front fenders from a good friend for my '57 Golden Hawk, and had finally gotten around to getting my old "visible gas pump" sandblasted and primed, trying to get it out of the shop and out of the way before winter. (See photo). All set up to do the priming/painting in a crowded shop. As long as no one opens the garage door, I'm fine! I even thought to lock-out (or hit the lock button, obviously didn't work) in case my wife hit the wrong remote in my van again, but wasn't too concerned as I'm the only one who drives it.....
9PM, my son asks for some electrical tape, I tell him where it is in the shop.... and you guessed it, he used the keyless remote on the big garage door instead of taking keys out to open the man-door. Never even occurred to me he'd do that, but should have, my fault, not his....
Anyway, any opening the door knocked that big pump over and the top pipes landed on the deck-lid seal area of the trunk (see photos).
It is all crimped and enclosed, no-where to pound.... how can I ever get that straight again?
I'm just sick about it, even thought about turning the breaker off for the door but thought i'd "protected" myself already... Live and learn, the hard way.
At least it didn't fall on him. Some things more important than old cars....
175801758117582

(S)
09-15-2012, 09:46 PM
I'd clamp the deepest part with a small vise grip and hook it to a heavy slide hammer enough so you can re- set up and pull it out slowly. Start at the deepest spot, then move up and down the edge.

Don Jeffers
09-15-2012, 10:20 PM
Hate to be a contrarian, but . . .

I'd start at the ends and work to the middle from both ends, together.

It will work out and look good. It isn't that bad. Start a new day and have fun!


Regards

bsrosell
09-16-2012, 07:37 AM
Thanks guys, Sunday's always make me grateful (for more reasons than one!), and thinking over again how much more important my son is than a car; not that he was really in any danger, that big pump really could only go IN (towards the car) as the door caught it, but a good reminder none-the-less of how unintended and innocent ACCIDENTS happen all the time, he's 16 and driving now too, (heaven help me when the other four kids get their licences !!) and I'm just grateful for the gift of a great son and a good reminder to treasure him and the other kids more than 'stuff'. He did forgive me for my childish tirade by the way, good kid! :-) Now on to the minor annoyance in the great scheme of things, the dent:
I know what a slide-hammer is; but the only one I'm familar with I saw in a body shop years ago when I worked on my Model-A Ford in high school. The body-shop guy would WELD (spot-weld?) the thing (perhaps via an attachment?) to a door panel that had a ding, whack the slide hammer out and pull the dent out without actually cutting any metal (and reduce the body work to minor crease instead of big dent).
Is that what you are talking about here? I'm scratching my head trying to envision attaching a slide-hammer to a vise grip though. DID consider welding something to the deepest valley, buying an auto-body slide-hammer and trying that way, with a jack & 2x4 lifting up right underneath it and pushing up tightly enough to barely start lifting car off the ground but not denting the UNDERSIDE too :-)
Is that the same type of slide hammer? I guess I should go to Eastman or TP Tools website and look up 'slide hammers', maybe there are different options available than what I've seen.

wolfie
09-16-2012, 07:51 AM
Better tool suppliers have a clamp made for this application. It is a clamp with holes to attach a pull point such as your slide hammer to. If the area behind that lip is also dented you will want a stud welder to pull that area. Steve

rockinhawk
09-16-2012, 08:38 AM
There is a vice grip tool that the heat and air people use on ductwork. It has a wide flange(3"?) inplace of the jaws of regular V/Gs. I have a pair and use them all the time for such repairs. Good luck. NT

sweetolbob
09-16-2012, 09:57 AM
Thanks guys, Sunday's always make me grateful (for more reasons than one!), and thinking over again how much more important my son is than a car; not that he was really in any danger, that big pump really could only go IN (towards the car) as the door caught it, but a good reminder none-the-less of how unintended and innocent ACCIDENTS happen all the time, he's 16 and driving now too, (heaven help me when the other four kids get their licences !!) and I'm just grateful for the gift of a great son and a good reminder to treasure him and the other kids more than 'stuff'. He did forgive me for my childish tirade by the way, good kid! :-) Now on to the minor annoyance in the great scheme of things, the dent:
I know what a slide-hammer is; but the only one I'm familar with I saw in a body shop years ago when I worked on my Model-A Ford in high school. The body-shop guy would WELD (spot-weld?) the thing (perhaps via an attachment?) to a door panel that had a ding, whack the slide hammer out and pull the dent out without actually cutting any metal (and reduce the body work to minor crease instead of big dent).
Is that what you are talking about here? I'm scratching my head trying to envision attaching a slide-hammer to a vise grip though. DID consider welding something to the deepest valley, buying an auto-body slide-hammer and trying that way, with a jack & 2x4 lifting up right underneath it and pushing up tightly enough to barely start lifting car off the ground but not denting the UNDERSIDE too :-)
Is that the same type of slide hammer? I guess I should go to Eastman or TP Tools website and look up 'slide hammers', maybe there are different options available than what I've seen.

The visegrip method should pull up the flanged area and a stud welder can get the rest.

This is the stud welder from HF that I've used and loaned out for four years or so. http://www.harborfreight.com/stud-welder-dent-repair-kit-98357.html

If you plan on more body work it is a worth while investment. The puller (included) is not the most heavy duty but welding a bar on a cheap vise grip could get it adapted also. Otherwise, add $20 to the cost and buy the slide hammer also http://www.harborfreight.com/15-piece-slide-hammer-and-puller-set-5469.html and connect it to a vise grip.

Bob

junior
09-16-2012, 09:59 AM
There is a vice grip tool that the heat and air people use on ductwork. It has a wide flange(3"?) inplace of the jaws of regular V/Gs. I have a pair and use them all the time for such repairs. Good luck. NT

Those are called hand seamers, and I agree, they should do the trick. Junior

gordr
09-16-2012, 10:11 AM
Could be a lot worse. The iron could have fallen on a freshly-painted trunk lid.

This is a job tailor-made for a stud welder kit. I bought a kit when they were on sale at a local tool dealer. It does a fine job. See if you can rent the kit. Good rental shops may have them, or FLAPS that are heavy into autobody supplies. Alternatively, see if you can find a body man at a local shop who will moonlight for an evening. This should take under an hour for trained guy with a stud welder.

If you are determined to do it yourself, without a stud welder, get a box of #8 by 3/4" Tek screws. These are self-drilling sheet metal screws. Best to get them with Robertson (square socket) head, and the driver bit to go with them. Drive them into the dent using a cordless drill for power (easy peasy), and then use them as pull points. You could probably use a claw hammer to pull on them, if you are careful that you don't push some other area down with the hammer. I have used these for years.

bsrosell
09-16-2012, 12:56 PM
thanks guys, if the local body-shop guy here in Stillwater I know were not so busy, I'd try him (shucks, I still might call him and ask).
Definitely a job I'd be happy to pay for and pretend it never happened and not look close there again :-)

In liue of that, I appreciate the tips if I have to do it myself. But FIRST, to get that doggone gas-pump painted and out of my shop so I HAVE a shop again.
(by the way, I threw the circuit breaker on the garage door opener this time. At least it won't happen twice! And yes, at least it didn't fall on a freshly painted ANYTHING on the car. I'm much calmer about it today :- )

SN-60
09-16-2012, 10:02 PM
To: bsrosell,-----Don't mean to discourage You, but this type of accident damage, although confined to a small area, is quite difficult to repair and get right by someone without bodyshop
experience and tools. If Your GH is eventually going to be sent to a body shop for final finishing, etc., stay away from this area,..... leave it to the bodyshop to fix. Once again, this is an example
of very difficult bodywork to someone without the correct tools or experience....whereas in a good body shop it can be made 'like new' in about an hour. Good luck

rockne10
09-16-2012, 10:12 PM
I'm thinking this multi-layered channel stamping will be difficult to pull with vise clamps or stud welders. It can be accomplished but, due to the nature of the stout era steel I think a more aggressive puller will be required.

63 R2 Hawk
09-16-2012, 10:26 PM
The double metal is too heavy for a stud welder. I would get a clamp, as mentioned above and chain it to an engine hoist. Start putting some moderate upward lift to the clamp (don't try to pick up the entire car!) while tapping the bulged out portion with a flat body hammer and maybe use a stud welder on the single panel area. You may have to use some judiciuos heat from an acetylene torch or even drill out the spot welds-you can buy a special drill bit for that- to finish reshaping the panels. Use plug welds to reweld the spot weld areas once you've got it straight. Takes time, patience and finesse. I used to work in a body shop and that's how we would fix something like that, except we'd do it on a specially equipped frame rack.

Bordeaux Daytona
09-17-2012, 08:10 AM
This slide hammer at harbor freight looks like a copy of the OTC one I have. There's an adapter shown in the middle of the picture of the box that screws into the back of a vise grip when you take the original out. It works pretty good and the weight is larger. The other attachments have come in handy over the years too.

http://www.harborfreight.com/17-piece-heavy-duty-slide-hammer-kit-5223.html

Jeff_H
09-17-2012, 08:42 AM
Before spending a lot of time on trying to pull out the damage, Id check for rust on the ends of this panel where it attaches to the fenders/trunk sidewalls on each end first. There was enough rust on this car's floors that would be worth going over with a pick hammer looking for thin spots. It would be worth making sure its worth fixing. Cary's Fabricating makes a excellent reproduction of this box panel should yours be found rusted out.

bsrosell
09-17-2012, 09:34 PM
Again, thanks for all the comments and suggestions. My body shop experience is generallly limited to welding in floor panels and patching areas in the "won't be seen but want them sealed up" areas..... I'm getting NOS front fenders for example.... mine are just bad enough that I don't trust myself to do the car justice, and by the time I pay a pro to do it right, I can almost justify the expense of nice new fenders and NO BODYWORK!. Thus, I am leaning towards SN-60's advice; leaving it alone and letting a body shop do it with the proper equipment. The more I look at it and consider buying tools to try some of the suggested techniques, the more I think about it, the more I think I'm better off leaving this one to someone with the right equipment AND the know-how. (now, I hope I can find that person locally! Any Mpls/St.Paul guys who are really impressed with any body shops around here?) Seems a lot of them are full of kids trained in replacing a 2010 car's fender or putting a little bondo and paint on, but not the real skillful things you need on OLD cars..... I did all my Model-A Ford work myself but didn't have these types of issues to deal with, just simple bondo and a few welded cracks.
Oh, for a trailer and a pickup with hitch..... Every once in a while I miss the farm... and wish Dad lived closer AND still had a decent trailer, but those days are gone.

bsrosell
09-17-2012, 09:36 PM
1764117640
oh, forgot to reply Jeff; fortunately, my trunk is like new.... all the water damage was up in the firewall/floor area for some reason. Trunk is rust free and solid..... and of course right where the gas pump would have to land :- ) (photos pre-accident of course, was nice and straight....)


Before spending a lot of time on trying to pull out the damage, Id check for rust on the ends of this panel where it attaches to the fenders/trunk sidewalls on each end first. There was enough rust on this car's floors that would be worth going over with a pick hammer looking for thin spots. It would be worth making sure its worth fixing. Cary's Fabricating makes a excellent reproduction of this box panel should yours be found rusted out.

bsrosell
09-29-2012, 07:52 PM
Update:
friend from work who MAKES frames and is converting a 53 Stude and has a shop I'd give my right arm for, offered to come out and help me try to pull that dent. He has the heavy duty "grips" made for this purpose and slide-hammer, and will probably first try to use my Engine Hoist (and probably chain down the body or something ..)
He thinks we can do it, so will give it a try. I showed my body shop guy, he just shook his head, didn't get warm fuzzies that they'd lovingly work it back into shape, probably just cut and weld like surgeons... (at similar cost).
By the way, I finally finished that blasted pump and got it out of my shop (here it is), by my Model A), now I can get back to Stude stuff!

17916
The double metal is too heavy for a stud welder. I would get a clamp, as mentioned above and chain it to an engine hoist. Start putting some moderate upward lift to the clamp (don't try to pick up the entire car!) while tapping the bulged out portion with a flat body hammer and maybe use a stud welder on the single panel area. You may have to use some judiciuos heat from an acetylene torch or even drill out the spot welds-you can buy a special drill bit for that- to finish reshaping the panels. Use plug welds to reweld the spot weld areas once you've got it straight. Takes time, patience and finesse. I used to work in a body shop and that's how we would fix something like that, except we'd do it on a specially equipped frame rack.

nvonada
10-01-2012, 07:01 AM
That pump is very cool. The model A is very nice too.

Nathan

jimmijim8
10-01-2012, 07:54 AM
If you gotta ask how, ask the body man you spoke of or just have a whack at it yourself. Put your resources to work. Put some thought into a plan. You might even become more talented. cheers jimmijim

bsrosell
10-01-2012, 08:08 AM
yep, looks like it is going down that way (try it myself with my buddy's help and combined tools).
The body guy just said "it's smashed!" and went back to talking to his other customer. Yes, I plan to find another body shop to handle my Golden Hawk; wasn't thrilled with what they did or charged for my Model-A anyway, considering I brought that in all complete down to having wet-sanded it, and they still didn't do what I asked (like spray color UNDER the body,and body was off the frame primarily for that purpose).
Re; trying it myself, your own quote is what often holds me back: "do it right the first time".. Hard to do that when it often takes experience of doing it and finding out the WRONG way, before you get good enough to do it right. And on a hobby car, you often only get one chance to "do it", so on something where trying the WRONG way can ruin it and make it difficult or impossible (or very expensive) to undo the damage, tempting to take it to a pro. School of hard knocks can be expensive on non-replacable items. :- ) But in this case, we're going to give it a try and two heads are always better than one.

If you gotta ask how, ask the body man you spoke of or just have a whack at it yourself. Put your resources to work. Put some thought into a plan. You might even become more talented. cheers jimmijim

bsrosell
10-01-2012, 08:12 AM
thanks Nathan.
Did the 'A in high school (80's), and then my shop blew down on it in 2000; spent 7 years re-restoring it, every nut and bolt. Just drove it 3 hours up to my dad's farm for the winter this weekend for storage (oh, I hope the Bounce sheets do the trick one more winter and keep those mice out! Have had good luck with the cars so far, but worry every winter....)

That pump is very cool. The model A is very nice too.

Nathan

Mrs K Corbin
10-02-2012, 11:59 AM
I welded a nut to the back of a pair of Vise Grips for my slide hammer.... Now if I can just find the thing....



Thanks guys, Sunday's always make me grateful (for more reasons than one!), and thinking over again how much more important my son is than a car; not that he was really in any danger, that big pump really could only go IN (towards the car) as the door caught it, but a good reminder none-the-less of how unintended and innocent ACCIDENTS happen all the time, he's 16 and driving now too, (heaven help me when the other four kids get their licences !!) and I'm just grateful for the gift of a great son and a good reminder to treasure him and the other kids more than 'stuff'. He did forgive me for my childish tirade by the way, good kid! :-) Now on to the minor annoyance in the great scheme of things, the dent:
I know what a slide-hammer is; but the only one I'm familar with I saw in a body shop years ago when I worked on my Model-A Ford in high school. The body-shop guy would WELD (spot-weld?) the thing (perhaps via an attachment?) to a door panel that had a ding, whack the slide hammer out and pull the dent out without actually cutting any metal (and reduce the body work to minor crease instead of big dent).
Is that what you are talking about here? I'm scratching my head trying to envision attaching a slide-hammer to a vise grip though. DID consider welding something to the deepest valley, buying an auto-body slide-hammer and trying that way, with a jack & 2x4 lifting up right underneath it and pushing up tightly enough to barely start lifting car off the ground but not denting the UNDERSIDE too :-)
Is that the same type of slide hammer? I guess I should go to Eastman or TP Tools website and look up 'slide hammers', maybe there are different options available than what I've seen.

Bordeaux Daytona
10-02-2012, 01:24 PM
This is probably too late but I saw an ad for this puller in a magazine the other day and it said that it was $39.95.

http://www.lasvegastool.com/easy-puller

http://www.lasvegastool.com/images/sites/1/products/3f283267-fc5e-4def-ba80-f8a54a71c97d/additional/8c52593e-8509-40a2-8aed-2df804cfae59/MoreImage4.jpg

Mrs K Corbin
10-03-2012, 07:09 AM
Dang! Knew I should have patented that thing!!!! Kicking myself....