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Mike Van Veghten
09-09-2012, 11:38 PM
As noted a few weeks ago, I ordered a Hot Rods and Brakes full kit.
http://hotrodsandbrakes.com/Studebaker_Brake_Kits.html

For whatever reason, some of you bad mouthed them without even seeing them...!

Well, I've got a set and don't see anything to bad mouth about.
With a relationship to the old Dave Levesque kits...it is very much the same. A little nicer, but the same. But really...in keeping things "simple", how can you be much different..?
A coupla things different.
1. the Hot Rods and Brakes bracket is much nicer cut out. Still 1/4" steel, and while it's not a machined part and it is flame cut, it looks more like a Plasma cut rather than a worn out torch tip as Daves did. I have a set of Daves, that's how I know..!
The bearing spacer is a nice fit at the inner bearing and the inner grease seal. Fits snugly on the spindle.
The store bought parts are a mix of NAPA and CarQuest parts.

Compared to the Turner kit.
Night and day. The Turner bracket is much cleaner and better done. It's also HEAVY. It's a two piece bracket which from a design standpoint..."isn't" good. On the other hand, everything is heavy enough that I doubt he's had any problems with that bracket.
But also from a design point, it's WAY too heavy, MAC Truck stopping heavy.

The Levesque kit under my 59 Lark wagon has almost 100,000 miles that I've put on it (don't know how many the last owner put on it with those brakes on it..!) with zero problems.

The only concern I have the the Hot Rods and Brakes kit is the way the bracket is bolted to the spindle.
Unlike the Levesque kit, that used a thru bolt with a nut, the Hot Rods and Brakes kit...the bracket itself is threaded, with no nut. On its own accord, that's ok when used with LocTite (as is recommended in the instructions) along with a split lock washer.
The split lock washer is kind-of-a joke as far as locking a fastener, but the LocTite will do the job. The split lock washer is already in the trash, I don't use them.
I bought longer bolts and lock nuts to be a little more secure. I will tighten the bolts as designed, then add the lock nuts to secure things better from there.
The basic fastening design is a good idea, I just like a little more security.

All in all, I would not hesitate to recommend using these brakes at all to anyone needing a perfectly good disc kit. Not "over" engineered, done just right.
This is all...just my opinion of course..!

Mike

doug
09-10-2012, 02:51 AM
Thanks for the information.

Mike Van Veghten
09-15-2012, 01:43 PM
Just a final note -

Finally braved the...comming up to 100F plus heat this morning, got one side done and the spindle 90% clean on the other side. Hopefully finish it up this evening after the temperature gets back down to 95F....!

Anyway, I measured the brake drum to wheel interface on both the stock drum and the Hot Rods and Brakes kit, rotor.... Using a straight edge and a new tape measure, the new kit places the wheel in the same location as stock. This is a good thing, no track width change.

All went together fairly easy. All I did was to run a file over the bracket to remove the sharp edges and repaint.
Nice solid bracket.

out....

Mike

royvaldez
09-20-2012, 07:19 PM
Mike, I just ordered a set for my 51 Bus. Coupe from this company.

Bullet
09-21-2012, 12:30 AM
Can you post any pictures? I like the price being a CASCO! Wonder if it will work with the drum based power brakes.

Thanks!!!

Mark

Mike Van Veghten
09-21-2012, 12:44 PM
With the right master cylinder, you don't need a booster..!
My 54 wagon, disc at both ends, will NOT have a booster, just like my other 54 that has many miles on it this way.

Mike

Dan White
09-21-2012, 03:05 PM
If you want to continue to use your booster you will need to remove the residual check valve in the master cylinder and put in a 2 lbs in the front brake line and a 10 lbs in the rear line. These in line residual check valves are readily available from Jegs, Summit or other auto parts places.

53commander
09-21-2012, 03:15 PM
Sounds like a decent set up, I'd also like to see some pics.

Paul Keller
09-21-2012, 04:01 PM
Regarding a booster - Although I have the Turner system, it does not have a booster being used. Although it requires a bit more "leg power" required it is easily managable. Not having a booster gives a bit better feel and is one less thing to go wrong.
Paul TK

Skybolt
09-21-2012, 05:29 PM
Good find Mike. I have a set of brackets from Dave Levesque and sourced the rest, rotors, fully loaded calipers etc..., online and completed my brake conversion for about $250, that was about 10 years ago. The braided stainless lines were extra but not every one would do that. I had a set of brackets on a 64 Cruiser in Australia that were similar to Dave's and had no problems either. Simple is oftentimes good. Len.

Mike Van Veghten
09-21-2012, 08:12 PM
53commander et-al -

Just go to their website......!?!......
The front page has the Stude kit pictured.
http://hotrodsandbrakes.com/

The internet is your friend when used correctly...

Mike

Mastercylinder size and caliper/caliper or caliper/drum size goes together..!
If sized correctly, no power booster required.

Paul Keller -
If you have a hard push with no booster, give a try to the next master cylinder piston size smaller. That is, if using a 1.13" dia. piston, use a 1.00" dia. piston
Smaller piston equals more pressure, larger piston equals more volume.

53commander
09-22-2012, 07:52 AM
53commander et-al -

Just go to their website......!?!......
The front page has the Stude kit pictured.
http://hotrodsandbrakes.com/

The internet is your friend when used correctly...

I meant pictures of the kit on the actual car but dont worry about it, just keep making stupid comments.

Flashback
09-22-2012, 08:39 AM
I have 4 wheel disc on my 53, with Turner kit on front, and no power. I also used the Turner M/cly. kit, with dual m/cyl. Residual valves frt and rear, and a equalizer valve (adjustable). In my opinion, it would be hard to beat this kit. AND, the tech. pages Jim has. I have also called, and got answers. Great guy and a great kit. I can give you one shot of the Turner kit.

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/Flashback53/53getsexhaust008-2.jpg

DEEPNHOCK
09-22-2012, 08:43 AM
(some additional contact info)

This Business is not BBB accreditedRod Tech Rods & ClassicsPhone: (715) 762-1818 N14415 Hway 13 South, Park Falls, WI54552

Mike Van Veghten
09-22-2012, 11:12 AM
Funny, Jeff can't even get the name right..

And 53commander -
You keep asking comments without full explanations, I'll answer them as asked..

Mike

royvaldez
09-22-2012, 12:03 PM
the guy is taking a couple of days of Vacation. I got a hold of him yesterday. Got alot of information from him. His name is Bill

royvaldez
09-22-2012, 12:05 PM
the guy is taking a couple of days of Vacation. I got a hold of him yesterday. Got alot of information from him. His name is Bill. Most of all, most of us who sell parts are not BBB accredited.

DEEPNHOCK
09-22-2012, 12:38 PM
Funny? Not really...
I just did a search of that address, and shared with the forum some additional information, which was provided without comment.

Mike shoots back but doesn't even check out the other companies, and the other products and forums that are attached to that address.
(I have actually been right in front of that address a bunch of times, but what do I know? I didn't say anything about them):rolleyes:

What is sort of funny is to see Mike wildly shoot back without even aiming....
(And taking offense to nothing that was offensive).
Jeffhttp://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/images/icons/icon6.png



Funny, Jeff can't even get the name right..

And 53commander -
You keep asking comments without full explanations, I'll answer them as asked..

Mike

Dan White
09-22-2012, 06:01 PM
I bought 2 kits from Hot Rods and Brakes this year and had no problems. I called and talked to the owner. They were shipped the day after he got my order. He said has made over 200 kits for Studes and other makes over the years.

54stude
09-24-2012, 07:03 AM
A few years ago I bought one of these kits, and I will install it eventually, but for now it is still sitting in a box. FYI, the small kit uses ford ranger 2wd rotors.

Having said that, the turner basic kit is only $40 more, and the parts are plated, and finished a lot nicer. In retrospect, I wish I would have bought the turner kit.

FYI, I have the turner master cylinder kit and it is really nicely made and very complete. It would be a great addition to either the turner kit, or this kit.

Skybolt
09-24-2012, 09:27 AM
A quick question about all the different kits. Does it put the mating surface of the rotor in the original location so if one was able to install an original wheel it would be in the original location. Not offset either way? I know most original wheels wont fit but this question is not about using the wheels but more about location. It's been so long since I installed my conversion I don't recall if it was different. Len.

Dan White
09-24-2012, 06:29 PM
The larger kit for 15" and larger wheels uses '78 Ford Granada rotors and '80 Monte Carlo calipers and pads. I would recommend powder coating any brake brackets.

Studebaker-Buick
09-30-2015, 08:34 AM
I realize this thread is old but I had a couple of questions that weren't directly asked.

Just to confirm, is the picture below showing the exact SB2 kit as it comes?

Also, are the stepped spacers in the center of the image the ones that are a shrink fit onto the spindles? Why are they stepped? Which part acts as the bearing preload face and which the grease seal running surface?

http://hotrodsandbrakes.com/images/a8493c3abfb3ca93078021731f4d76dc_wrl6.jpg

r1lark
09-30-2015, 09:31 AM
Wayne, the Hot Rod and Brakes site info should answer your first question. The link below will take you to the Studebaker brake page, with .pdf files listing the individual components that come in each kit. Note there are two different versions of the SB-2 kit, so what comes in the kit depends on which one you choose.

http://hotrodsandbrakes.com/Studebaker_Brake_Kits.html

Studebaker-Buick
09-30-2015, 10:44 AM
While I had explored their site before, your reply encouraged me to take a closer look. The SB-2 kit is the 11" option and it comes either as the base kit where you source your own OE parts, or the complete kit. The SB-1 kit comes in the same forms but is a smaller 10.25" rotor.

I know this company sells more than Studebaker kits; his inventory includes some Ford conversions too. Since the only photo is on the home page I had no way of knowing what kit was pictured.

Anyway, looking at the picture and from what box part numbers are visible I attempted to match those numbers to what is listed in each kit .pdf listing.
I can determine the following numbers from the picture:
Picture:
Seal: 19214
Pads: M7070A
Banjo: 82703
Bearing1: PBR13
Bearing2: PBR2
Dust Cap: 735-1424

Now pulling up the individual kit pdf files:
SB-2(11" stude car):
Seal: 19221 (no match)
Pads: TS-7070A-M (match)
Banjo: 82743 (no match)
Bearing1: PBR13 (match)
Bearing2: PBR2 (match)
Dust Cap: 730-2436 (no match)


SB-1(10.25" stude car):
Seal: 19214 (match)
Pads: TS-7070A-M (match)
Banjo: 82743 (no match)
Bearing1: PBR13 (match)
Bearing2: PBR2 (match)
Dust Cap: 735-1424 (match)


SB-3(stude truck):
Seal: 19221 (no match)
Pads: TS-7070A-M (match)
Banjo: 82743 (no match)
Bearing1: PBR13 (match)
Bearing2: PBR2 (match)
Dust Cap: 730-2436 (no match)

Below are all Ford conversion kits:
FB-1:
Seal: 19221 (no match)
Pads: TS-7070A-M (match)
Banjo: 82743 (no match)
Bearing1: PBR13(or 6) (match-except alt)
Bearing2: PBR2(or 12) (match-except alt)
Dust Cap: 730-2436 (no match)


FB-2:
Seal: 19221 (no match)
Pads: TS-7070A-M (match)
Banjo: 82743 (no match)
Bearing1: PBR13 (match)
Bearing2: PBR2 (match)
Dust Cap: 730-2436 (no match)


FB-3:
Seal: 19221 (no match)
Pads: TS-7070A-M (match)
Banjo: 82743 (no match)
Bearing1: PBR13 (match)
Bearing2: PBR2 (match)
Dust Cap: 730-2436 (no match)


FB-4:
Seal: 19221 (no match)
Pads: TS-7070A-M (match)
Banjo: 82743 (no match)
Bearing1: PBR13 (match)
Bearing2: PBR2 (match)
Dust Cap: 730-2436 (no match)


So given the similar parts between the picture and the SB-1 kit it looks like the pictured kit out of all the offerings is the SB-1 kit. The only not matching part number is the banjo bolt which maybe they found a different number after the picture was taken that worked better for whatever reason and never updated the photo. It would be nice to have an image of each kit.

So now I'm wondering what the SB-2 kit's spindle spacer looks like. Is it also stepped or is it just a simple ring? I imagine the different grease seal in the SB-1 kit with the smaller rotor has a smaller ID and that explains the step in the spacer?

Can anyone who has installed the SB-2 kit post some images of their install or at least some of the parts?

Thanks for the help!

DougHolverson
09-30-2015, 10:59 AM
I wonder what "Some 3/4 ton" that those disc kits fit?

Studebaker-Buick
09-30-2015, 11:03 AM
After looking at the installation instructions for the SB-1 and SB-2 kit they seem to be the same for that spacer instillation and how it mates with the bearing:

Excerpt from installation instructions:
"slide the inner bearing over the spacer, it shouldslide on easily. If not, polish the bearing journal with emery cloth until it slides
on and off easily."

That tells me the smaller OD of the stepped spacer is what the inner race of the inner bearing rides on and it shoulders against the face of the step leading to the larger OD. I'm assuming the larger OD of the spacer is the grease seal running surface. I looked up the specs for the two grease seals and they are as follows:
PN 19214:
Width: 0.38"
Shaft(I took this to mean the diameter of the shaft running through the ID of the seal): 1.938"
Bore(I took this to mean the bore in the back of the rotor hub): 2.5"
OD: 2.504"

PN 19221:
Width: 0.281"
Shaft: 1.938"
Bore: 2.502"
OD: 2.506"

So the larger rotor seal is thinner but the same dimensions as far as spindle shaft size and rotor bore size. So I'd imagine at least the ID/OD dimensions of the two kit option spacers would be identical however, depending on the inner and outer bearing separation distance between the two rotor sizes the lengths of the spacers may not be the same.

r1lark
09-30-2015, 11:19 AM
Wayne, have you called the Hot Rod & Brake folks and asked them about the spacer?

Studebaker-Buick
09-30-2015, 11:24 AM
No. I prefer my pale misanthrope view point from behind my computer screen... :p

Mike Van Veghten
09-30-2015, 11:33 AM
I installed the kit I bought from them some time back. Don't recall all the details, but it went together just fine. I do remember that I used longer bracket to spindle fasteners so that I could install nuts to use as sort of a double check/locking mechanism.

While I can go out and take a picture...all you are going to see is is a brake disc, a bearing cover and black Wilwood, aluminum calipers. And No, I'm not taking it apart for some time to come..!

The car isn't running yet, still have to install new wiring from end to end. The car is going thru a complete mechanical/electrical renew process.

Mike

Studebaker-Buick
09-30-2015, 11:43 AM
What!? You won't take it all apart for some yaeh-who on the internet?? ;)

I hope I didn't miss this info somewhere else, but are those Wilwood aluminum calipers just the direct replacements for the ones intended to be used in the kit or did you do some other modifications to make them work?

jackb
09-30-2015, 03:31 PM
I'm too lazy to search the price: ???

Studebaker-Buick
09-30-2015, 03:36 PM
I'm too lazy to search the price: ???

$195 with only the brackets and other custom pieces. You source your own parts store parts.
$525 for the complete kit with all parts ready to install.

PACKERBACKER
09-30-2015, 04:30 PM
I have used these kits on both of my Avantis. I installed the smaller rotor kit on my 1963 R2 and everything went well except that the brake hoses that they recommended were a bit too short so I used different ones. My 1964 R1 was another story. I ordered the larger rotor kit for that one and got a surprise because I discovered that the center hole in my rims did not fit over the brake rotor hub. luckily I had not mounted the brackets onto the car yet. I called Hot Rod and was told that you have to use Ford rotors if you use that kit. I asked if they would exchange that kit for the kit that used the smaller rotors and they were happy to oblige. The only other problem I encountered was that I had to use an extra spindle washer on both sides or I couldn't tighten up the spindle nut enough which was funny because that was not a problem on my first installation. The brakes work great and I have never had a problem with either car.

Mike Van Veghten
09-30-2015, 04:31 PM
Studebaker-Buick -

Correct. My current broken collar bone prevents me from doing much at all..!

And yes, the Wilwood calipers are a direct replacement, but with stainless pistons and are notably lighter. Plus you can alter the piston size if you like in the part number you select.
I'm not a fan of excess weight out on the spindle for the spring and shocks to have to work harder to control. Any "unsprung" weight you can save is a good thing, on several fronts.

Mike

PACKERBACKER
09-30-2015, 04:36 PM
Both times I bought the brackets from Hot Rod and most of the other parts were from Rock Auto. Most of the time Rock Auto is a no brainer to get parts from. They carry quality brands and there prices are almost always the best by far. The only thing that comes into my decision is that the shipping can at times be a factor.

PACKERBACKER
10-01-2015, 12:34 PM
Sorry, I meant that you have to use Ford rims not rotors (those are what you are using anyway). The Ford rims supposedly have a larger center hole that allows the hub to pass through.

Mike Van Veghten
10-01-2015, 02:57 PM
Or most any aftermarket wheel.
My Weld Wheel, wheels have a large center hole, and the center vs. rim dimensions clear the calipers with plenty of room.

Mike

Studebaker-Buick
10-01-2015, 03:10 PM
+1 on using RockAuto

So in the installation instructions when it says "Run a 13/32" drill through the mounting holes." how much is that oversizing the original spindle hole? And the original backing plates are attached with a through-bolt and nut arraignment, correct? You can tell I've never had mine off before...

Mike - that collar bone wouldn't be from you bouncing off the steering wheel the first time you stabbed your new brakes would it?? ;)

Mike Van Veghten
10-02-2015, 01:43 AM
The drill bit is to verify that a 3/8" fastener will go thru the spindle holes. As I recall, all I needed to do was to deburr the stock holes and a 3/8" fastener went thru all locations...snugly. Snug is better than loose in my book in this case.
Yes, the new bracket uses the same fastener locations as the OEM backing plate points.

Na, end of shoulder vs a SoCal freeway at about 55mph while my motorcycle slid on without me..!

Mike

Studebaker-Buick
10-02-2015, 01:26 PM
I'm guessing the factory backing plate bolts are 5/16"?

Ouch! That'll ruin your day...

stude dude
10-02-2015, 08:54 PM
Its interesting to see that all of the above kits still require a spacer of some type on the stub axle. We have been marketing a kit for a year now (as have others) that uses original Studebaker hubs, either reconditioned, N.O.S. or new replacements. This eliminates the need for any spaces and simplifies the engineering behind the conversion, a critical point for Stude owners in Australia where registration authorities will often require an engineers report before approval. Our kit uses a modern caliper, new disc rotor (all off the shelf parts), does not alter the track and can usually be used with the standard Stude rims.

Chris.
STUDEBAKER of AUSTRALIA
48090

JoeHall
10-02-2015, 09:43 PM
Its interesting to see that all of the above kits still require a spacer of some type on the stub axle. We have been marketing a kit for a year now (as have others) that uses original Studebaker hubs, either reconditioned, N.O.S. or new replacements. This eliminates the need for any spaces and simplifies the engineering behind the conversion, a critical point for Stude owners in Australia where registration authorities will often require an engineers report before approval. Our kit uses a modern caliper, new disc rotor (all off the shelf parts), does not alter the track and can usually be used with the standard Stude rims.

Chris.
STUDEBAKER of AUSTRALIA
48090

Chris,
Around here, I hear it is difficult to find a shop to remove and replace the hub studs, due to them being swedged, which seems like a lost art. With your kit, are the rotors swedged onto the Stude hubs? What diameter are the rotors?

Mike Van Veghten
10-02-2015, 11:49 PM
Joe -

These kits are four the front, not the rear, the fronts are not swaged..!
The stock drum pulls right off the hub and the studs are an easy push or even pound out with a large hammer, though pushing them out is easier and safer.

Another way of doing this, I made up a simple bracket (similar to the Hot Rods bracket but about 1/2 the size), and use Wilwood four piston calipers on my running 54 wagon. The braking is VERY nice, smooth and even. An easy push, even without a power booster if you pick the correct master cylinder for the caliper piston (all four corners)area used.
I used a combination of the stock 54 hub and the Avanti rotor. While the Avanti rotor isn't cheap, so far it works well. I wouldn't use this on a road racer type car because of it being so thin (not compatible with high heat). But for the street or even some drag racing, it stands up to the task just fine.

Mike

Flat Ernie
10-03-2015, 07:40 PM
These kits are four the front, not the rear, the fronts are not swaged..!
The stock drum pulls right off the hub and the studs are an easy push or even pound out with a large hammer, though pushing them out is easier and safer.

My '53 front drums are swaged on with the lug nuts. I just pulled the drums this week to inspect as my car has been sitting. It would require a special swage cutter like they use for early Fords...

Following this thread with interest as I'm contemplating a disk brake swap in the near future (once I get the car back on the road).

bezhawk
10-03-2015, 10:42 PM
4812448125I used a setup very similar to Mike Van Veghtens. I use a 10mm thick steel bracket, and the STOCK HUB.
push out the studs, and drill the hub to accommodate shouldered studs and use a Jeep Cherokee rotor over the stock Studebaker hub. It is no stud centric just like any new vehicle. I use Wilwood four piston Dynalite caipers. They are cheap,(120)ea and work well.