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View Full Version : Fuel System: Edelbrock for my R2 Avanti.. (Sigh)



ronhusak
09-09-2012, 11:22 AM
Hi All..
Well I got my rebuilt Supercharger and Carburetor back on and even the belts back on.. Well I am afraid the carburetor isn't going to work out! One of our highly regarded vendors did the work on these items over a year ago.. Unfortunately, I had a fall last summer which bunged up my shoulder and didn't feel up to working on the car till just recently..
The car will not idle.. It speeds up and slows down and almost feels like a miss.. But as soon as it's above idle all smooths out. Now for the story.. It appears that sometime in it's history the carburetor was modified in that it had a 60's GM lower body put on. Join thought possibly from a GTO as it has a large air bleed adjustment between the idle bleed jets. They used the top from the original Studebaker Carter. This body was probably a larger CFM as it was designed for a much larger engine. The reason I had it worked on was it was WAY rich as I live at over 9000 feet altitude and it would hardly run at all.. I drove it from South Bend (Where I Bought it) back here to the foothills of Denver. IT ran worse and worse as the altitude increase.. He also overhauled the Super Charger and tightened the tolerances to get me some additional boost up here as well..
What I did to try to solve my current problems are.. Replaced the PCV, Pinched off the brake booster hose in case of a vacuum leak, Pinched off the PCV none of this even helped a little. I cannot think there is anything else wrong but the body is junk. Jon said that he had to epoxie some of the unnecessary passages etc.
Now for my real question.. I am considering the use of a Edelbrock 1403 on this R2. I am considering this one because it's 500 CFM which should be more than enough for this car. Would I need to use the original top? I have read I do because of sealing issues. And have read the jets and rods are interchangeable.. Any BTDT out there?
Or should I bite the big bullet and go all the way to a CFI unit.. I don't anticipate driving the car a lot of miles but that would solve the altitude compensation issues for sure. If so what would you use?
Two other things didn't work after the year long sleep.. One, the power steering doesn't have any boost! any ideas? Two the boost pressure gauge doesn't work any longer.. Dirt?
Thanks in advance for the groups knowledge and help..
Ron Husak

SN-60
09-09-2012, 11:40 AM
To: ronhusak,-------You have a 'mix-and-match issue here...bad starting point.....the first thing I would do is take the supercharger out of play, and then see how Your Avanti idles. At least then
You'd know if the air/fuel mix is way off with the added blower pressure. (and even at idle speeds, a shimmed supercharger has an effect) The 'up and down' idle without touching the accelerator
is a clear indication of air/fuel mixture problems. Once again, if, as You say, there are no vacuum leaks anywhere. Good luck!

Kenmike2
09-09-2012, 11:41 AM
Hello from sunny AZ
See you have an R2 opportunity. I have an original R2 carb that has been installed and road tested here at 5000 feet altitude in Central AZ.

I rebuilt it and installed it onto a 63 R2 supercharged Avanti and drove it nearly 1000 miles to prove to myself that it was all correct. It worked perfectly.

It's available for $700 or make me a reasonable offer.


Otherwise, if your'e going to use an Edelbrock, go to the 600 CFM Marine version of the Edelbrock. It's already sealed for marine apps and it works perfectly in a blow through application. 500 CFM should be enough for any 300 cubic inch engine but when supercharged the 600 CFM just seems to work better.



Ken Michael, Studebakers Only, Payson, AZ 928-970-1562

ronhusak
09-09-2012, 01:50 PM
SN-60..
I didn't mention that I did run it without the supercharger.. Same issue..
Ron

ronhusak
09-09-2012, 01:55 PM
Ken..
When you rebuilt the unit you have did you leave the jetting and rods standard? I definitely need to go leaner up here.. As low as I ever go is 5200 feet in Denver...
I have read the "Marine" version of the Edelbrock doesn't have any provisions for ported vacuum or PVC I believe..
Thanks for the response.. I am gonna think on your offer..
Ron Husak


Hello from sunny AZ
See you have an R2 opportunity. I have an original R2 carb that has been installed and road tested here at 5000 feet altitude in Central AZ.

I rebuilt it and installed it onto a 63 R2 supercharged Avanti and drove it nearly 1000 miles to prove to myself that it was all correct. It worked perfectly.

It's available for $700 or make me a reasonable offer.


Otherwise, if your'e going to use an Edelbrock, go to the 600 CFM Marine version of the Edelbrock. It's already sealed for marine apps and it works perfectly in a blow through application. 500 CFM should be enough for any 300 cubic inch engine but when supercharged the 600 CFM just seems to work better.



Ken Michael, Studebakers Only, Payson, AZ 928-970-1562

bige
09-21-2012, 08:48 PM
17762I can help you build a hybrid carburetor.

I think the 500 cfm is too small. Part of your problem may be that the top from your old AFB is not compatible with the primary venturis on the existing carb. You need to look at where the air bleed tubes fit into the carb top. Also, the AFB top has no external vents for the float bowls the bottom you have may need them.

The biggest hurdle to mating the Edelbrock and your top will be the venturi clusters. If you had you original AFB you could just swap them over. If the tubes to your existing venturi clusters fit nicely in the holes in your top you're OK.

You don't need to go toa a marine carb. Sealing isn't the big issue with the changeover. I believe marine carbs are a little different as boats don't see all the different scenarios that cars do.

I built a hybrid carb for my R2. Ran it with no problems for years and the current owner uses the car almost daily with no issues and my supercharger put out a true 5 lbs of boost.

ErnieR

bige
09-21-2012, 09:23 PM
Aside from building a carburetor...

I think your idle problems could be timing related. Drop the idle as far as you can and set the timing. Try a static around 8-10 degrees. This is an experimental setting. An R2 should be timed at 1600 RPM and have advance all in at a 26-28 reading ( vacuum advance disconnected ). The 8-10 setting might yield an overall that is too high but right now this is just an experiment to cure an idle issue.

Vacuum advance should be on a ported vacuum fitting fitting, typically on the right side of the carb. If your base is a very early AFB it may only have a full vacuum port. If vacuum advnce is hooked up there you will have an eratic idle as vacuum changes and advances and retards timing. That in itself would not be a problem but in combination with any other idle issues it could exacerbate the issue.

PM me if you want to discuss by phone.

BTW the boost gage is also a vacuum gage so if you don't have any reading there it may be the source of a vacuum leak.

ErnieR

ronhusak
09-21-2012, 11:54 PM
Ernie..
Thanks for the reply...I have the distributor advance hooked to a ported port. With a vacuum gauge it appears to work properly. I cannot get the carburetor to idle slowly enough. I have tried pinching off the booster hose, the PCV hose, disconnected the vacuum advance and I simply cannot get it to slow. It acts like a vacuum leak. I even adjusted the linkage.. The plates are rested on the boars still too fast.. And it wants to surge at cruise speeds...
Chicken Hawk on the list wants to sell me a 9906 600 CFM Rebuilt Edelbrock as a replacement. I have read that the air horns are not the same size and the linkages are not a bolt uo.. Also some stuff about the venturies not being correct.. I am confused..
If this is truly a bolt on replacement I'M in..
Anyone? Are there any and how difficult are any changes needed?
Thanks for the help..
Ron Husak
Conifer, CO

bige
09-22-2012, 09:39 AM
http://studebaker-info.org/AVDB1/R5000/64R5388/64r5388t/64r5388edel.html

http://studebaker-info.org/tech/bige/sdc39201.html

These two links would probably give you all you need to know about converting an Edelbrock. The second one is a thread from the forum. I concur with the marine accel pump and seal as mentioned. Parts available through Edelbrock. Jim's beautiful CNC work on his conversion is nice but in my experience was not necessary. I never had an issue with leakage from the shafts although a well worn base might prove otherwise but on a new base the shafts seemed to handle the boost fine.

ErnieR

ronhusak
11-07-2012, 10:49 AM
Hi All..
As promised I said I would comment when I got the carburetor back from Myers and the results.. Well it came back late last week.. Friday to be exact.. Installed it on Saturday and fired her up.. The running especially at idle was MUCH better.. I can actually get the unloaded idle down to about 1000 RPM.. Drops to about 600 while in gear..
Jon Myers said he found that the secondary throttle shaft was rough with a bit of rust and not operating smoothly.. He said that they seemed to work well enough when the carburetor worked well enough when off the car but when installed on one of his caused a sticking which would not allow it to either open properly or close properly..
He also said that going 2 stages lean as I had instructed because of my altitude (9000 feet) it was causing a surge at cruise speeds.. So he changed the rods and springs which he said took care of that issue.. I as still concerned about being too rich but we will have to see..
Does anyone know if the parts and pieces of the Edelbrock tuning kit will work on this carter? I may have to adjust some of this myself.
The only other issue I have is with the choke. It is WAY too rich.. And, being there is no pull off I guess my only alternative is just loosen the choke adjustment till it works for me..
I did have one nasty surprise though.. After sitting for about a month while I juggled the carburetor stuff.. When I started it.. No Power Steering! It acts like the belt is disconnected.. But it is not and the pulley is turning.. Any ideas what could cause that? Stuck something?
Thanks in advance for all of your input..
Ron Husak
63 R2 Avanti
Conifer, CO

63 R2 Hawk
11-07-2012, 11:26 AM
Subscribed- good stuff, some day I will probably need to know.......