1964 GT Hawk in Belgium

[guy]

Hello,
In my garage I have currently a GT Hawk from 1964.
A couple of days ago I received the production order from the museum saying:
serial no 64S-11719
engine no 82SM308
Destination Brussels, Belgium Lot #5
factory order no 386
Date written 11/5
final assembly date Nov 14 1963
sales order no S-28
How to ship CKD
Item no E
quan 24
model and body type 64S-K6 4166
omit paint, trim, tires, wheels, battery
Hi-comp cyl HDs 8.0
climatizer AC 3467
furnish speedo gear & pinion for 650X15 4 PLY tires
For complete specif see order & std inst. for Belgium

A have some questions now:
1. because of the CKD and different omits I suppose this car came to Belgium as a KIT and was assembled overhere. I have found D'Ieteren assembled for a while Studebakers in Belgium, but from what I found this was end 50's. Can somebody of you tell me who was the assembler for Belgium for the GT Hawk?
2. Can somebody give me more information on the engine. I know it is a 6-cylinder, but I'm rather looking for more specifics. Also the only number I could find for the moment physically is 81SK328. Is this serial known as a Studebaker serial and are more specifics available about this engine?
3. What does Hi-Comp cyl HDs 8.0 mean?
4. What does "furnish speedo gear & pinion for 650X15 4PLY tires" mean?
5. Can somebody help me to find the order & std inst. for Belgium?
6. Is there information available on the number of GT Hawk's who where assembled in Belgium and what sequence this car was?

I know a lot of questions already, butknow that I have this car for a couple of weeks I feel getting infected by a virus who wants to find the complete history of this car and the history of Studebaker in Belgium.

Thanks in advance,
Guy

[avantilover]

1# D'Ieteren were the Studebaker assemblers, there was or is an advertisement of theirs on eBay in Europe with a Hawk.
2# That is likely the engine number including the engine build date, others with more knowledge will advise you on that. All I have is that it has a bore (distance from side to side of cylinder) of 3.00 Inches and stroke (distance piston travels up and down in cylinder) of 4.00 Inches. Capacity of 169.6 Cubic Inches and Gross (total) Horsepower of 112 @ 4500 RPM
3# It means the car has a High Compression Cylinder Head with a compression ratio of 8.0 to 1. Others will correct me if that isn't right.
4# It means the speedometer gear and pinion (that connect to the wheel and supply the data to the instrument) for (Guessing) Bias Ply tyres (4 Ply)
5# D'Ieteren may be able to assist or at least advise what they usually did when assembling these vehicles.
6# D'Ieteren should (hopefully) have some information for you.

All the Americans will know is on your production order, similar to my 1962 Lark Regal sedan sent CKD down here to Australia.

Good luck with the car, they're lovely vehicles.

[studegary]

There were only 224 six cylinder 1964 Hawks built in the World.

[Noxnabaker]

224 aint many but there's a blue 6-cyl. -64 G.T.Hawk for sale on www.speurders.nl outside Amsterdam, Holland...
& it loox like it's in a real good condition but probably's been standing for a long time.
Check it out...

[guy]

Hello all,
Thanks for the replies so far.
It's becoming interesting now as there where only 224 6-cyl hawks build of the '64 model. Next question popping up now is to find out how many of these 224 are assembled in Belgium.
In the meantime I have a couple of questions outstanding with D'Ieteren, so I'm hoping to get some information from that site also.
Further I'm of course hopeful waiting on more information through this forum also.

[Dwain G.]

The engine number seems odd to most of us because it's unique to export vehicles. '81'= the 81st engine built for export on that day. (Wow, that's a surprising amount!) The rest of the number is the standard Studebaker engine numbering system begun for the 1964 model year. 'S'=six cylinder. 'K' =October, 10th month (letter'I'not used). '3'=1963. '28'=day of the month.

[guy]

The engine number seems odd to most of us because it's unique to export vehicles. '81'= the 81st engine built for export on that day. (Wow, that's a surprising amount!) The rest of the number is the standard Studebaker engine numbering system begun for the 1964 model year. 'S'=six cylinder. 'K' =October, 10th month (letter'I'not used). '3'=1963. '28'=day of the month.

Hi Dwain, Actually an interesting explanation you gave on the serial of the engine nr.
Now, is it possible the 81 indicates the 81st engine built for the HAWK GT '64model, and not the 81st engine built on that day? Knowing there are only 224 hawks with 6cyl engine exported and taking the assumption they build 81engines per day, that would mean they build all engines for export in about 3days.
The other strange point is with the difference of serial given on the production order and the serial I found on the engine. Putting it together gives:
For the serial on the engine:
81SK328:
81 81st engine
S Six cylinder
K October
3 1963
28 28th day

serial given by production order:
82SM308:
82 82nd engine
S Six cylinder
M December
3 1963
08 8th day

Knowing the production order says the final assembly date is Nov,14th 1963, that would mean there is a mismatch with the engine as the production order mentioned serial is build in December.

I originally though the engine was replaced later on, but with above information I rather feel like there was some error put on the production order.
Would be nice if you, more experienced guys on this, give your feelings and remarks.

At least it's an interesting part on these exported cars.

[christophe]

Hi Guy,

Welcome to the forum.
You must contact D'Ieteren. They have kept comprehensive records about all the cars they built. Send a mail to: catherine.rommelaere@dieteren.be She's been very helpful to me. I have recently mailed a request to the Studebaker Museum about the belgium specifications. No answer yet, but I'll let you know about this. By the way, I own a 1963 GT Six and my production order looks like a duplicate of yours.

Nice day to all.

[christophe]

There were only 224 six cylinder 1964 Hawks built in the World.

Hi Gary,

Do you happen to have also the 1963 figures too? If so, that is of great interest to me.
Thanks by advance.

[guy]

Hi Guy,

Welcome to the forum.
You must contact D'Ieteren. They have kept comprehensive records about all the cars they built. Send a mail to: catherine.rommelaere@dieteren.be She's been very helpful to me. I have recently mailed a request to the Studebaker Museum about the belgium specifications. No answer yet, but I'll let you know about this. By the way, I own a 1963 GT Six and my production order looks like a duplicate of yours.

Nice day to all.

Hi Christophe, This is becoming really interesting. I start feeling like a detective
What do you mean with "duplicate". Are you saying you have on your production order the same serial numbers etc.?

[christophe]

Hi Christophe, This is becoming really interesting. I start feeling like a detective
What do you mean with "duplicate". Are you saying you have on your production order the same serial numbers etc.?

[avantilover]

if you don't mind some English suggestions (no criticism intended, only ways a native speaker would use).

You can phone her directly, here are more details about or here is more information about.
They'll even get you (no need to have "for") the name

What you wrote would have a changed word order to read:
They'll even get the name of the first owner of the car for you.

[christophe]

if you don't mind some English suggestions (no criticism intended, only ways a native speaker would use).

You can phone her directly, here are more details about or here is more information about.
They'll even get you (no need to have "for") the name

What you wrote would have a changed word order to read:
They'll even get the name of the first owner of the car for you.

Thanks John.

I admit I've been a little too quick on this one. Furthermore, when using a foreign language, there is always a tendancy to translate expressions of his own language. Add to all this my little dislexia and here is the result.

[avantilover]

You're welcome, your English is better than my French LOL.

[Jim B PEI]

Just an odd thought about the mismatch of the dates, 'final assembly' listed as >>November 14, 1963<< and 'serial number' date given as >>December 8, 1963<<. I always thought that cars shipped as CKD (complete knock down kit--is that the right term?) were first ASSEMBLED (as in South Bend), then partially DIS-ASSEMBLED for shipping, and then RE-ASSEMBLED and *completed/finished off in drive-away condition* with local content--seat material, hubcaps?, paint, tires, wheels etc from the kit, depending on location. If my understanding of the process is correct, then there is no mismatch. The car would be assembled with all major welding, parts and fitments, and later on would be given a serial number corresponding to when the car was actually completed. A serial number would be issued when the parts actually became a car that could be used/sold as a car. I'm wondering is the rules governing serial numbers were why the experimental Avantis built in say 1962 were okay with the X as long as they were owned by Studebaker as test vehicles, but when they were later sold to the public they had to be re-serialized(?)