'65-'66 Engines "what if" question

[Chris_Dresbach]

Every day during my lunch hour at SI, George and I from work usually talk Studebaker over lunch. The other day was an interesting discussion that I'm not sure I know the answer to. "What if Studebaker couldn't get the McKinnon GM engines for late model Studebakers? What would they have used?" I know part of the Story, since the South Bend plant was shut down in '64 Studebaker no longer had a foundry or machine shop to make their own engines so they got them from GM for the Canadian cars. Now, what if GM has said no? Would Studebaker have gone to Ford or Chrysler for engines? Would they have been able to get engines from the other companies, or would they have been able to produce Studebaker 259s and 289s under contract? Can you imagine a bunch of '66s powered by Hemis? That would be the ultimate sleeper...
Perhaps Stu Chapman can shed a little more light on this?

[mbstude]

Every day during my lunch hour at SI, George and I from work usually talk Studebaker over lunch.

Now there's a shocker!

[Starlight]

Would Studebaker have gone to Ford or Chrysler for engines? Would they have been able to get engines from the other companies, or would they have been able to produce Studebaker 259s and 289s under contract
Perhaps Stu Chapman can shed a little more light on this?[/QUOTE]

Studebaker did try the small block ford and the chrysler engine in the cars.....The GM was the one that fit best with out a lot of work to make it work.....Keep on Studebakering

[556063]

I too hope Stu chimes in, but I will say what my opinion is before hand.

The rest of the Industry knew Studebaker was going to be a non-factor moving forward from 1965. GM, Ford and Chrysler were all heavy into industrial gasoline engines back in those days. Studebaker's meager production was just lumped into that business.

I would guess the Ford engines would have been the first choice because of the Borg-Warner connection. Probably would have required the least re-work.

Other manufacturers such as AMC and Rolls Royce used the Chrysler 727 Automatic Transmission back in those days, so AMC was already building engines with bellhousings set up for Chrysler running gear?? But, that would have required a ton of engineering to the chassis. Money that probably wouldn't have been spent.

Heavy and Farm Equipment manufacturers used a lot of Ford (Continental) gasoline straight sixes in the 1960's, so that engine would have had an immediate level of acceptance just for that. If GM would have ever cut Studebaker off, the end may have come right then just from that. But, the industrial gasoline engine business was much healthier and wide open back then than it is today.

[8E45E]

I would guess the Ford engines would have been the first choice because of the Borg-Warner connection. Probably would have required the least re-work.

Other manufacturers such as AMC and Rolls Royce used the Chrysler 727 Automatic Transmission back in those days, so AMC was already building engines with bellhousings set up for Chrysler running gear?? But, that would have required a ton of engineering to the chassis. Money that probably wouldn't have been spent.

The Cheverolet V8 was the only engine that would fit: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...hlight=checker

Rolls Royce built GM's Hydramatic under licence with tighter tolerances than what GM was for mass-produced units. Time has shown the tighter tolerances weren't really necessary.

Craig

[BobPalma]

Guys, the new, small-block Ford V8 engine was ruled out because Ford could not build enough of them to satisfy their own needs, pure and simple. I can't imagine Studebaker wanting to buy sixes from one company and V8s from a wholly different one, so I'm sure that ruled out Ford engines right away.

At that point in time, Ford was scrambling to build enough 260s and 289s, period, and would not have entertained selling any to Studebaker no matter what Studebaker thought of the engine, or how well it might have fit Studebaker's chassis.

To the point, if you'll do a little research, you might find an advertising campaign Ford came out with in 1966 (risque at the time), called, "Six and The Single Girl." It was designed to encourage young women to buy six-cylinder Mustangs and thus ease the demand for V8s for Mustangs. Really. BP

[8E45E]

At that point in time, Ford was scrambling to build enough 260s and 289s, period, and would not have entertained selling any to Studebaker no matter what Studebaker thought of the engine, or how well it might have fit Studebaker's chassis.

And they were already under contractual obligation supplying their small V8's to Rootes Group for the Sunbeam Tiger, and AC Cars for the Cobra over in England. Of course, those deals were inked before the success of the Mustang, but Ford still had to honor them...even after Chrysler bought out Rootes!

Craig

[Tom Bredehoft]

AC Cars for the Cobra over in England.

Wasn't Carroll Shelby handling them in California? It seems Cobra was his name for them.

[8E45E]

AC Cars for the Cobra over in England.

Wasn't Carroll Shelby handling them in California? It seems Cobra was his name for them.

Yep, he certainly made them almost a household word in North America. http://www.accars.co.uk/

Craig

[JRoberts]

in reading the link that Craig posted I was a bit surprised by the discussion of GM engines coming from plants other than the McKinnon plant. When we rebuilt the engine in my Cruiser one of the head has CANADA molded right into it. I thought that was kind of cool. It indicated to me that the engine was a Canadian engine. I have also heard old timers speak about having a preference for the Canadian 283's over those made in the U.S. because as one guy put it they were stouter.

[Milaca]

Was AMC not using the Borg-Warner trannies in 1965 & 66? They had both inline 6 and V8 engines. International Harvester also had inline 6 and V8 engines (and slant 4 engines) but I believe were using Chrysler automatics at this time and the manual trannies may have been built in-house by IH. Or Studebaker could have offered the Perkins diesel!

[avantilover]

If Studebaker hadn't been able to obtain engines production would have ended in December 1963. As regards to the Ford engine in a Chrysler owned "Rootes Group Sunbeam Tiger", if memory serves me correctly, Chrysler tried their engine but it was too big, so stuck with the Ford until end of production. I imagine the automakers sell each other stuff routinely.

[5859]

It seems to me that Studebaker could have easily utilized the Ford 289s since they sold the design to Ford................................................................

[1962larksedan]

What would've made for a nice setup would be a Buick Nailhead; they were being phased out starting 1964 although a 401/TH400 ain't exactly 'economy car' material.

[Dick Steinkamp]

What would've made for a nice setup would be a Buick Nailhead; they were being phased out starting 1964 although a 401/TH400 ain't exactly 'economy car' material.

...although Buick DID have the all aluminum 215 cid (3.5L) nailhead that they were also phasing out that WOULD have made nice economy car material.