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Silverplate
07-12-2012, 07:49 AM
We all know there are a reported number of 1964 Avanti “changeover” cars that had round headlights. My 64 Avanti R2 R4986 seems to be too late in production to maybe be a changeover car but was built with round lights. The data and tables I have read on this subject are not all that clear. My car was built on August 19, 1963. I was wondering with the Studebaker Sales Letter No 170 dated August 21, 1963 it was about Running Changes. It listed rectangle headlights as a change. It also stated that round headlights would remain available a no change option with B1009 marked on the order form. Is there any documented cars built that specified this option.

http://silverplate1945.smugmug.com/photos/i-48XtLZM/0/XL/i-48XtLZM-XL.jpg

Gunslinger
07-12-2012, 07:54 AM
There's supposedly a few genuine '64s ordered with round eyes. The only way for sure to confirm your car was built that way is to obtain a build sheet. They're available through the Studebaker National Museum or Nostalgic Motors.

JBOYLE
07-12-2012, 10:38 AM
Like everyone else, I've heard of interim 64s with round headlights, but I've never heard tha they were still (always?) available as a no cost option from the factory.

Neat.

Gunslinger
07-12-2012, 03:48 PM
My understanding has always been the round headlights were to be available for order until inventory of parts ran out, then the option was to be dropped. I'm assuming that even those cars that were ordered with round headlights still got the other '64 changes...group 24 battery and inner fender to accept it and the hood support being moved to the passenger side. If that's accurate it could cause confusion among owners and judges as to what is correct and original should they come upon one of these cars.

SN-60
07-12-2012, 04:32 PM
To: Silverplate,------ A Friend of Mine owns R-4943 and it's one of the 'transition' models, Your R-4986 is fairly close in sequence to that #, so Your car could be either.

Silverplate
07-12-2012, 06:01 PM
To: Silverplate,------ A Friend of Mine owns R-4943 and it's one of the 'transition' models, Your R-4986 is fairly close in sequence to that #, so Your car could be either.

I have my build sheet and it did not specify B1009 option so I am thinking it must have been a transition model. I laso have early pictures of car with the round headlights. Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. Mike

JDP
07-12-2012, 06:16 PM
I have my build sheet and it did not specify B1009 option so I am thinking it must have been a transition model. I laso have early pictures of car with the round headlights. Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. Mike


More likley the nose was replaced at some point sqaure headlights started at R 4892

Gunslinger
07-12-2012, 06:31 PM
Since the build sheet doesn't show it came from the factory with round headlights and you have early photos of the car with round eyes, it seems there may be two possible explanations...

1) It was damaged very early on and square headlight bezel parts were not yet available to fix it with, or...

2) Avantis were not completed in numerical order of serial number. Your R4986 may actually have been completed before R4892 which was the official starting point for square light bezels.

Bob Langer
07-12-2012, 07:28 PM
This is from an article by Fred K. Fox in the October, 1987 issue of Turning Wheels.

Note the last sentence in the second paragraph.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/SquareHeadlights001-1.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/SquareHeadlights002.jpg

kurtruk
07-12-2012, 09:19 PM
We all know there are a reported number of 1964 Avanti “changeover” cars that had round headlights. My 64 Avanti R2 R4986 seems to be too late in production to maybe be a changeover car but was built with round lights. The data and tables I have read on this subject are not all that clear. My car was built on August 19, 1963. I was wondering with the Studebaker Sales Letter No 170 dated August 21, 1963 it was about Running Changes. It listed rectangle headlights as a change. It also stated that round headlights would remain available a no change option with B1009 marked on the order form. Is there any documented cars built that specified this option.

http://silverplate1945.smugmug.com/photos/i-48XtLZM/0/XL/i-48XtLZM-XL.jpg

I am not an Avanti expert. But I think several of you are barking up the wrong tree. READ CAREFULLY. The letter does not say "B1009 marked on the order form (which I think you are interpreting as the Production Order or build sheet)." Rather it says, "B1009 Order Form is to be marked " Round Headlights" ." This letter is to dealers telling them how to mark their Order Form if the customer desired round headlights. Am I right?

Yes, it would somehow still need to get indicated on the line build sheet, but that is not what this letter pertains to.

studegary
07-13-2012, 12:26 PM
I am not an Avanti expert. But I think several of you are barking up the wrong tree. READ CAREFULLY. The letter does not say "B1009 marked on the order form (which I think you are interpreting as the Production Order or build sheet)." Rather it says, "B1009 Order Form is to be marked " Round Headlights" ." This letter is to dealers telling them how to mark their Order Form if the customer desired round headlights. Am I right?

Yes, it would somehow still need to get indicated on the line build sheet, but that is not what this letter pertains to.

Yes, I agree and understand it the same way. This is an instruction to dealers on how to order a 1964 Avanti with round headlight frames. This refers to a transmittal from the dealership to Studebaker.

SN-60
07-13-2012, 04:45 PM
I would disagree with a conclusion that the 'nose' was replaced on Silverplate's R-4986. (just because it has 'round' head lights)

studegary
07-14-2012, 05:52 PM
I would disagree with a conclusion that the 'nose' was replaced on Silverplate's R-4986. (just because it has 'round' head lights)

It is my understanding that R4986 would be after the first "square" headlight Avanti, but before the first "square" headlight Avanti was built for a regular customer delivery. The early "square" headlight Avantis were built to be show cars. The net is; I would think that R4986 was originally a round headlight car.