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DEEPNHOCK
07-18-2007, 11:41 PM
Looks real rich as far as F/A ratio....
Did you save any old crankcase oil?
An analysis might provide some clues.
Jeff[8D]

DEEPNHOCK
07-18-2007, 11:41 PM
Looks real rich as far as F/A ratio....
Did you save any old crankcase oil?
An analysis might provide some clues.
Jeff[8D]

Anne F. Goodman
07-18-2007, 11:42 PM
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/DSCN0736.jpg
http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/DSCN0737.jpg
http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/DSCN0740.jpg
http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/DSCN0741.jpg
http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/DSCN0742.jpg
Well 3000 miles on the engine and the Rod bearings failed. I think that there is a problem with the Rod bearings out there. Just a thought. Don't know where IStude got his but they sure look the same. Been working on this since July 1st. Good news is.
Mabel should be back home Thursday. We will finish her up. Short little Video. Hey any ideas to what happened would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIY4zHu-XsU
Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
Fresno,Ca
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/Mabel.jpg?t=1165475035http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/xmasannecopy.jpg

JDP
07-18-2007, 11:42 PM
Don't quote me on this, but this is maybe the 5th or 6th time I've heard of the repro bearings from off shore failing, but the vendors that sell them claim there is no problem. If your bearings came is a plain white box, you might blame the Chinese.

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
07-18-2007, 11:42 PM
Don't quote me on this, but this is maybe the 5th or 6th time I've heard of the repro bearings from off shore failing, but the vendors that sell them claim there is no problem. If your bearings came is a plain white box, you might blame the Chinese.

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

Anne F. Goodman
07-19-2007, 12:12 AM
I didn't rebuild it so I don't know what color the box was. But I had heard of others with the repro bearings having problems. To me its just not worth saving a few bucks on bearings to get 3000 miles down the road to do it all over again. I only shared my story so that others wouldn't have to go through this. Last resort the white boxes. Just my opinion. The Crank was turned to .020 on the mains and .030 on the rod bearings. The main bearings looked good.

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
Fresno,Ca
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/Mabel.jpg?t=1165475035http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/xmasannecopy.jpg

Anne F. Goodman
07-19-2007, 12:12 AM
I didn't rebuild it so I don't know what color the box was. But I had heard of others with the repro bearings having problems. To me its just not worth saving a few bucks on bearings to get 3000 miles down the road to do it all over again. I only shared my story so that others wouldn't have to go through this. Last resort the white boxes. Just my opinion. The Crank was turned to .020 on the mains and .030 on the rod bearings. The main bearings looked good.

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
Fresno,Ca
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/Mabel.jpg?t=1165475035http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/xmasannecopy.jpg

lstude
07-19-2007, 08:13 AM
Sorry to hear that you had problems too, Anne. Your rod bearings look like mine.

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/Mein64DaytonaatBradfieldssm2.jpghttp://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/AlmostreadyforSB6-4.jpg

lstude
07-19-2007, 08:13 AM
Sorry to hear that you had problems too, Anne. Your rod bearings look like mine.

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/Mein64DaytonaatBradfieldssm2.jpghttp://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/AlmostreadyforSB6-4.jpg

Chucks Stude
07-19-2007, 08:21 AM
Who sells non-chinese bearings?

Chucks Stude
07-19-2007, 08:21 AM
Who sells non-chinese bearings?

Anne F. Goodman
07-19-2007, 09:54 AM
quote: Who sells non-chinese bearings?

Fairborn Studebaker
Phil Harris

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
Fresno,Ca
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/Mabel.jpg?t=1165475035http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/xmasannecopy.jpg

Anne F. Goodman
07-19-2007, 09:54 AM
quote: Who sells non-chinese bearings?

Fairborn Studebaker
Phil Harris

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
Fresno,Ca
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/Mabel.jpg?t=1165475035http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/xmasannecopy.jpg

Chucks Stude
07-19-2007, 10:36 AM
Good to know. Thanks

Chucks Stude
07-19-2007, 10:36 AM
Good to know. Thanks

Dick Steinkamp
07-19-2007, 10:53 AM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

Don't quote me on this, but this is maybe the 5th or 6th time I've heard of the repro bearings from off shore failing, but the vendors that sell them claim there is no problem. If your bearings came is a plain white box, you might blame the Chinese.


I'd have to say that in both these recent cases posted here it probably isn't simply a matter of bearings failing. In neither case would I just write if off as bad bearings and put the engines back together without cleaning everything and checking everything. My guess on both is that something went wrong with the cleaning process and/or assembly process.

Anne, the top end of your engine looks a little fuzzy for just 3,000 miles. Was it using a lot of oil? I personally would not have re-installed those valves in the last cylinder.

The bottom end of the engine looks like it has 200,000 miles on it [:0] . What's the story on the "rebuild"?

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
07-19-2007, 10:53 AM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

Don't quote me on this, but this is maybe the 5th or 6th time I've heard of the repro bearings from off shore failing, but the vendors that sell them claim there is no problem. If your bearings came is a plain white box, you might blame the Chinese.


I'd have to say that in both these recent cases posted here it probably isn't simply a matter of bearings failing. In neither case would I just write if off as bad bearings and put the engines back together without cleaning everything and checking everything. My guess on both is that something went wrong with the cleaning process and/or assembly process.

Anne, the top end of your engine looks a little fuzzy for just 3,000 miles. Was it using a lot of oil? I personally would not have re-installed those valves in the last cylinder.

The bottom end of the engine looks like it has 200,000 miles on it [:0] . What's the story on the "rebuild"?

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

studeski
07-19-2007, 11:15 AM
Looks like the bearing clearance was too tight. Were the bearings plasti-gaged? Or not enough oil. Aren't there plugs in the cam gallery under the tappet covers? What's stamped on the back of the bearings? Looks like you'll have to polish the crank. Looks pretty grimey for 3000 miles.

Claude Chmielewski
Studeski
http://www.studeski.com
Fillmore, Wisconsin
47 M-16 Truck
62 GT Hawk
63 Lark
64 Commander Wagonaire
50 Champion Regal (parts car)
[img=left]http://www.studeski.com/62hawk/dakota01.jpg[/img=left]
"One after another they volunteered how in their families and in their
communities they were expected to be responsible for their behavior, how
honesty was assumed to be the rule, not the exception. They also talked
matter-of-factly about the sense of duty to their country, a sentiment not
much in fashion anymore."

studeski
07-19-2007, 11:15 AM
Looks like the bearing clearance was too tight. Were the bearings plasti-gaged? Or not enough oil. Aren't there plugs in the cam gallery under the tappet covers? What's stamped on the back of the bearings? Looks like you'll have to polish the crank. Looks pretty grimey for 3000 miles.

Claude Chmielewski
Studeski
http://www.studeski.com
Fillmore, Wisconsin
47 M-16 Truck
62 GT Hawk
63 Lark
64 Commander Wagonaire
50 Champion Regal (parts car)
[img=left]http://www.studeski.com/62hawk/dakota01.jpg[/img=left]
"One after another they volunteered how in their families and in their
communities they were expected to be responsible for their behavior, how
honesty was assumed to be the rule, not the exception. They also talked
matter-of-factly about the sense of duty to their country, a sentiment not
much in fashion anymore."

Anne F. Goodman
07-19-2007, 11:53 AM
I'd have to say that in both these recent cases posted here it probably isn't simply a matter of bearings failing. In neither case would I just write if off as bad bearings and put the engines back together without cleaning everything and checking everything. My guess on both is that something went wrong with the cleaning process and/or assembly process.

Anne, the top end of your engine looks a little fuzzy for just 3,000 miles. Was it using a lot of oil? I personally would not have re-installed those valves in the last cylinder.

The bottom end of the engine looks like it has 200,000 miles on it [:0] . What's the story on the "rebuild"?

The Oil rings weren't doing their job at all. Yes it was using oil. David checked the rings mainly the oil rings looked bad like it was a bad set. Not sure. Oil pressure kept getting lower the more we drove it. Was really careful watching oil pressure, oil levels, was using a quart every 500 miles. we had changed the oil twice since the overhaul. Developed a knock my David couldn't hear it. I could my neighbor could hear it also. Finally hearing returned to David and he heard the same thing as me. He was going to try to take the pan off with the engine in the car. That wouldn't work. So we pulled the engine. The reason we think the Rod bearings were not right is the main bearings didn't show any wear.
David cleaned cleaned and recleaned the engine. Sometimes things like this just happen the combo of a bunch of little things. Anyhow today we fine tune her after work install the hood and bring her home.

Anne F. Goodman
07-19-2007, 11:53 AM
I'd have to say that in both these recent cases posted here it probably isn't simply a matter of bearings failing. In neither case would I just write if off as bad bearings and put the engines back together without cleaning everything and checking everything. My guess on both is that something went wrong with the cleaning process and/or assembly process.

Anne, the top end of your engine looks a little fuzzy for just 3,000 miles. Was it using a lot of oil? I personally would not have re-installed those valves in the last cylinder.

The bottom end of the engine looks like it has 200,000 miles on it [:0] . What's the story on the "rebuild"?

The Oil rings weren't doing their job at all. Yes it was using oil. David checked the rings mainly the oil rings looked bad like it was a bad set. Not sure. Oil pressure kept getting lower the more we drove it. Was really careful watching oil pressure, oil levels, was using a quart every 500 miles. we had changed the oil twice since the overhaul. Developed a knock my David couldn't hear it. I could my neighbor could hear it also. Finally hearing returned to David and he heard the same thing as me. He was going to try to take the pan off with the engine in the car. That wouldn't work. So we pulled the engine. The reason we think the Rod bearings were not right is the main bearings didn't show any wear.
David cleaned cleaned and recleaned the engine. Sometimes things like this just happen the combo of a bunch of little things. Anyhow today we fine tune her after work install the hood and bring her home.

bams50
07-19-2007, 01:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp



I'd have to say that in both these recent cases posted here it probably isn't simply a matter of bearings failing. In neither case would I just write if off as bad bearings and put the engines back together without cleaning everything and checking everything. My guess on both is that something went wrong with the cleaning process and/or assembly process.




As with Leonard's, exactly what I think also.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
07-19-2007, 01:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp



I'd have to say that in both these recent cases posted here it probably isn't simply a matter of bearings failing. In neither case would I just write if off as bad bearings and put the engines back together without cleaning everything and checking everything. My guess on both is that something went wrong with the cleaning process and/or assembly process.




As with Leonard's, exactly what I think also.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

gord holden
07-19-2007, 02:46 PM
off topic. Where you able to get transmission rebuild kit.I have a studebaker trans rebuild kit part # 1565184 for sale.

gh

gord holden
07-19-2007, 02:46 PM
off topic. Where you able to get transmission rebuild kit.I have a studebaker trans rebuild kit part # 1565184 for sale.

gh

52 Ragtop
07-19-2007, 08:24 PM
Ok, I'm probably going to start something here, but-- With all of the "new" oils and synthetics, instead of coating the cylinders with oil, I've been told that the Harley Guys are just using WD-40 on the new rings, and in the bores, that gives them a chance to seat in.
But when you think about it, makes sense.
Any thoughts?

Jim

52 Ragtop
07-19-2007, 08:24 PM
Ok, I'm probably going to start something here, but-- With all of the "new" oils and synthetics, instead of coating the cylinders with oil, I've been told that the Harley Guys are just using WD-40 on the new rings, and in the bores, that gives them a chance to seat in.
But when you think about it, makes sense.
Any thoughts?

Jim

53k
07-19-2007, 09:04 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

Don't quote me on this, but this is maybe the 5th or 6th time I've heard of the repro bearings from off shore failing, but the vendors that sell them claim there is no problem. If your bearings came is a plain white box, you might blame the Chinese.

I'm not happy to hear that. My '64 Wagonaire seems to be losing oil pressure with only a couple hours running since the semi-disastrous rebuild. Yesterday it was carrying 20 pounds hot idle. When I first got it back it was carrying 45 at hot idle. The bearings in it came from a well-known vendor (not Fairborn).


[img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/R-4.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64L.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64P.jpg[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/53K.jpg[/img=right]Paul Johnson
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine

53k
07-19-2007, 09:04 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

Don't quote me on this, but this is maybe the 5th or 6th time I've heard of the repro bearings from off shore failing, but the vendors that sell them claim there is no problem. If your bearings came is a plain white box, you might blame the Chinese.

I'm not happy to hear that. My '64 Wagonaire seems to be losing oil pressure with only a couple hours running since the semi-disastrous rebuild. Yesterday it was carrying 20 pounds hot idle. When I first got it back it was carrying 45 at hot idle. The bearings in it came from a well-known vendor (not Fairborn).


[img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/R-4.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64L.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64P.jpg[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/53K.jpg[/img=right]Paul Johnson
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine

JDP
07-19-2007, 09:39 PM
At some point, the Beta testing of the off shore bearings will reach some kind of conclusion, but I'll try to avoid them if I can.

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
07-19-2007, 09:39 PM
At some point, the Beta testing of the off shore bearings will reach some kind of conclusion, but I'll try to avoid them if I can.

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

Dick Steinkamp
07-19-2007, 10:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

At some point, the Beta testing of the off shore bearings will reach some kind of conclusion, but I'll try to avoid them if I can.


I think it's a huge mistake to dismiss bearing failures in recently rebuilt Studebaker motors as "bad parts". On occasion, this certainly might be a factor, but I'd say VERY seldom. Off shore bearings are not just a recent arrival to the Studebaker parts bins. They have been around for many years in all makes and models including brand new motors and cars. They don't always come in "white boxes". They come in boxes with your favorite and trusted brand name also. IMHO, if we blame our newly rebuilt Studebaker engines on "those damn Chinese", we will not do the research we need to do to find the REAL cause for failure and the engine will fail again.

Like I said earlier, there are maybe 4 people I would trust to rebuild a Studebaker engine. If we put our heads together, maybe we'd come up with 15-20 names. If one of these folks did not build your engine, watch out. They are not a small block Chevy. They are different. If your machinist doesn't know these differences and have a solid track record with the engine you need rebuilt, you could be in Leonard's, Anne's, or Paul's shoe's real easily.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
07-19-2007, 10:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

At some point, the Beta testing of the off shore bearings will reach some kind of conclusion, but I'll try to avoid them if I can.


I think it's a huge mistake to dismiss bearing failures in recently rebuilt Studebaker motors as "bad parts". On occasion, this certainly might be a factor, but I'd say VERY seldom. Off shore bearings are not just a recent arrival to the Studebaker parts bins. They have been around for many years in all makes and models including brand new motors and cars. They don't always come in "white boxes". They come in boxes with your favorite and trusted brand name also. IMHO, if we blame our newly rebuilt Studebaker engines on "those damn Chinese", we will not do the research we need to do to find the REAL cause for failure and the engine will fail again.

Like I said earlier, there are maybe 4 people I would trust to rebuild a Studebaker engine. If we put our heads together, maybe we'd come up with 15-20 names. If one of these folks did not build your engine, watch out. They are not a small block Chevy. They are different. If your machinist doesn't know these differences and have a solid track record with the engine you need rebuilt, you could be in Leonard's, Anne's, or Paul's shoe's real easily.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

60ragtop
07-19-2007, 10:30 PM
Anne's bearings lokk EGGSZACTLY like the rod and main bearings on the freshly rebuilt 289 in my 60 convertible looked after only 200 miles! When the oil light started flickering, I had the pressure checked with an oil gauge at the shop. It showed the engine had OK, but not great, pressure on start up rapidly decreasing to 5 pounds at warm idle. Dismantling the engine showed the bearings in condition similar to those in Anne's pictures. Bearings were included in a rebuild kit supplied by a major Stude vendor (not Fairborn). Don't know what the box color was, but the bearings were clearly off-shore manufacture because there were no markings such as Federal-Mogul or Clevite. Further inspection, however, showed dirt in places it shouldn't be, such as the oil galleries running the length of block. So, I can't really say for sure that the bearings were the total cause of the failure, but I believe they are at least a contributing factor. Bearings have been replaced by Federal-Moguls obtained from Phil Harris at Fairborn Studebaker and engine has been THOROUGHLY cleaned and is being reassembled as this is being written. One other thing--the original crank had been turned .010/.020, and the journals were scored badly as a result of the problem. Rather than have the crank turned again, I got another one out of a stuck engine and it cleaned up nicely at .010/.010. As far as I know the cam bearings are ok, but I can't help but be a little leery.

60ragtop
07-19-2007, 10:30 PM
Anne's bearings lokk EGGSZACTLY like the rod and main bearings on the freshly rebuilt 289 in my 60 convertible looked after only 200 miles! When the oil light started flickering, I had the pressure checked with an oil gauge at the shop. It showed the engine had OK, but not great, pressure on start up rapidly decreasing to 5 pounds at warm idle. Dismantling the engine showed the bearings in condition similar to those in Anne's pictures. Bearings were included in a rebuild kit supplied by a major Stude vendor (not Fairborn). Don't know what the box color was, but the bearings were clearly off-shore manufacture because there were no markings such as Federal-Mogul or Clevite. Further inspection, however, showed dirt in places it shouldn't be, such as the oil galleries running the length of block. So, I can't really say for sure that the bearings were the total cause of the failure, but I believe they are at least a contributing factor. Bearings have been replaced by Federal-Moguls obtained from Phil Harris at Fairborn Studebaker and engine has been THOROUGHLY cleaned and is being reassembled as this is being written. One other thing--the original crank had been turned .010/.020, and the journals were scored badly as a result of the problem. Rather than have the crank turned again, I got another one out of a stuck engine and it cleaned up nicely at .010/.010. As far as I know the cam bearings are ok, but I can't help but be a little leery.

JDP
07-19-2007, 10:42 PM
I never had a issue with TRW, or Federal Mogul, but only heard about failures when the new, lower priced, unbranded jobs arrived a few years back. The Fairborn bearings I bought recently are Federal Mogul, in the Federal Mogul package, marked on the back. The bearings I avoid are unmarked and in a unmarked white box. I may be wrong, but I can only post about bearing failures I've heard about in hopes of answering the question once and for all. BTW, the Federal Mogul's are made in Mexico.

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
07-19-2007, 10:42 PM
I never had a issue with TRW, or Federal Mogul, but only heard about failures when the new, lower priced, unbranded jobs arrived a few years back. The Fairborn bearings I bought recently are Federal Mogul, in the Federal Mogul package, marked on the back. The bearings I avoid are unmarked and in a unmarked white box. I may be wrong, but I can only post about bearing failures I've heard about in hopes of answering the question once and for all. BTW, the Federal Mogul's are made in Mexico.

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

HookedonStudies
07-19-2007, 11:08 PM
The offshore bearing you buy today - could have been a crushed Studebaker yesterday... isn't it ironic?

55 Commander
58 Transtar
62 GT Hawk
66 Cruiser

HookedonStudies
07-19-2007, 11:08 PM
The offshore bearing you buy today - could have been a crushed Studebaker yesterday... isn't it ironic?

55 Commander
58 Transtar
62 GT Hawk
66 Cruiser

54-61-62
07-19-2007, 11:20 PM
quote:Originally posted by Anne F. Goodman
http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/DSCN0737.jpg



Seriously, on your right cylinder in the picture it does not look like a 3k mile rebuild. Note the ridge at the top and the glazed look lower in the cylinder. This does NOT look consistent with a rebuilt enngine and looks comparable to the cylinders in my original 60k mile 54 Champion thats never been rebuilt.

Kent

54-61-62
07-19-2007, 11:20 PM
quote:Originally posted by Anne F. Goodman
http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/DSCN0737.jpg



Seriously, on your right cylinder in the picture it does not look like a 3k mile rebuild. Note the ridge at the top and the glazed look lower in the cylinder. This does NOT look consistent with a rebuilt enngine and looks comparable to the cylinders in my original 60k mile 54 Champion thats never been rebuilt.

Kent

Anne F. Goodman
07-19-2007, 11:50 PM
I think I used the wrong terminology rebuilt versas overhauled. New bearings ,new rings, maybe refreshed would be more accurate.

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
Fresno,Ca
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/Mabel.jpg?t=1165475035http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/xmasannecopy.jpg

Anne F. Goodman
07-19-2007, 11:50 PM
I think I used the wrong terminology rebuilt versas overhauled. New bearings ,new rings, maybe refreshed would be more accurate.

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
Fresno,Ca
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/Mabel.jpg?t=1165475035http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/xmasannecopy.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
07-20-2007, 12:09 AM
quote:Originally posted by Anne F. Goodman

I think I used the wrong terminology rebuilt versas overhauled. New bearings ,new rings, maybe refreshed would be more accurate.


Anne,
There is no way new rings are going to seat in those glazed cylinders. I hope they were honed, measured, within spec, and rings gapped this time. If new rings were put in cylinders that shiny, it wasn't a "bad parts" problem that caused the oil burning.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
07-20-2007, 12:09 AM
quote:Originally posted by Anne F. Goodman

I think I used the wrong terminology rebuilt versas overhauled. New bearings ,new rings, maybe refreshed would be more accurate.


Anne,
There is no way new rings are going to seat in those glazed cylinders. I hope they were honed, measured, within spec, and rings gapped this time. If new rings were put in cylinders that shiny, it wasn't a "bad parts" problem that caused the oil burning.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Anne F. Goodman
07-20-2007, 02:23 AM
My husband Honed the cylinders measured and remeasured. Placed the rings in the cylinders checked their gap. Rechecked their gap. Checked the book again. Checked every Rod bearing every main bearing. Remiked everthing. Cleaned recleaned then cleaned some more. We bought the engine around the end of Jan. complete refreshed or overhauled. This time we did it ourselves. I completely trust my Husband on what was done to this engine. Heck I'm becoming more of an expert than I ever really wanted to be. But stuff that has come out because of this thread needed to be said . I will stand by what i say. Part if not all of the problem with my engine and others that have posted on this thread is the ROD bearings. Not sure if it is a bad compostion of materials or what. But there is a problem.
Respectfully
Anne

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
Fresno,Ca
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/Mabel.jpg?t=1165475035http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/xmasannecopy.jpg

Anne F. Goodman
07-20-2007, 02:23 AM
My husband Honed the cylinders measured and remeasured. Placed the rings in the cylinders checked their gap. Rechecked their gap. Checked the book again. Checked every Rod bearing every main bearing. Remiked everthing. Cleaned recleaned then cleaned some more. We bought the engine around the end of Jan. complete refreshed or overhauled. This time we did it ourselves. I completely trust my Husband on what was done to this engine. Heck I'm becoming more of an expert than I ever really wanted to be. But stuff that has come out because of this thread needed to be said . I will stand by what i say. Part if not all of the problem with my engine and others that have posted on this thread is the ROD bearings. Not sure if it is a bad compostion of materials or what. But there is a problem.
Respectfully
Anne

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
Fresno,Ca
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/Mabel.jpg?t=1165475035http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/xmasannecopy.jpg

DEEPNHOCK
07-20-2007, 09:18 AM
Federal-Mogul bought T&N (A British automotive manufaturing holding company)a few years back, specifically to get Ferodo (friction) and Clevite (shell bearings). The Fed nixed the Clevite part of the purchase (actually they allowed the purchase, but F/M had to sell off Clevite right away. They sold it to Dana).
Interestingly, both Dana and F/M later filed for bankruptcy and Clevite was later sold off (iirc)... F/M's desire at the time was to corner the shell bearing market.
It would be real hard to figure out exactly 'where' bearings come from any more.
BTW, did you figure out why the chunk of the block broke off?
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by JDP

I never had a issue with TRW, or Federal Mogul, but only heard about failures when the new, lower priced, unbranded jobs arrived a few years back. The Fairborn bearings I bought recently are Federal Mogul, in the Federal Mogul package, marked on the back. The bearings I avoid are unmarked and in a unmarked white box. I may be wrong, but I can only post about bearing failures I've heard about in hopes of answering the question once and for all. BTW, the Federal Mogul's are made in Mexico.

DEEPNHOCK
07-20-2007, 09:18 AM
Federal-Mogul bought T&N (A British automotive manufaturing holding company)a few years back, specifically to get Ferodo (friction) and Clevite (shell bearings). The Fed nixed the Clevite part of the purchase (actually they allowed the purchase, but F/M had to sell off Clevite right away. They sold it to Dana).
Interestingly, both Dana and F/M later filed for bankruptcy and Clevite was later sold off (iirc)... F/M's desire at the time was to corner the shell bearing market.
It would be real hard to figure out exactly 'where' bearings come from any more.
BTW, did you figure out why the chunk of the block broke off?
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by JDP

I never had a issue with TRW, or Federal Mogul, but only heard about failures when the new, lower priced, unbranded jobs arrived a few years back. The Fairborn bearings I bought recently are Federal Mogul, in the Federal Mogul package, marked on the back. The bearings I avoid are unmarked and in a unmarked white box. I may be wrong, but I can only post about bearing failures I've heard about in hopes of answering the question once and for all. BTW, the Federal Mogul's are made in Mexico.

ralt12
07-20-2007, 10:27 AM
The other possibility that hasn't been mentioned is the methodology surrounding startup of a "dry" engine. Not only do bearing surfaces have not have the proper assembly material on them during assembly, but the engine has to be brought to a proper pressure before starting the car for the first time. I've seen a number of engines fail in this manner. That doesn't address the oil issue or whether 3000 miles would result in a break-in thorough enough to result in such shiny cylinder walls, though. Any "refresh" should take the ridge off with a ridge reamer. Perhaps the picture just shows the oil build-up on the cylinder wall and it looks like a ridge, but you can't tell without inspection.

'53 Commander

ralt12
07-20-2007, 10:27 AM
The other possibility that hasn't been mentioned is the methodology surrounding startup of a "dry" engine. Not only do bearing surfaces have not have the proper assembly material on them during assembly, but the engine has to be brought to a proper pressure before starting the car for the first time. I've seen a number of engines fail in this manner. That doesn't address the oil issue or whether 3000 miles would result in a break-in thorough enough to result in such shiny cylinder walls, though. Any "refresh" should take the ridge off with a ridge reamer. Perhaps the picture just shows the oil build-up on the cylinder wall and it looks like a ridge, but you can't tell without inspection.

'53 Commander

Dwain G.
07-20-2007, 11:25 AM
When excessive bearing clearance exists, so much oil leaks past the rods/journals, and is thrown up onto the cylinder walls, that even the best rings cannot control it.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.

Dwain G.
07-20-2007, 11:25 AM
When excessive bearing clearance exists, so much oil leaks past the rods/journals, and is thrown up onto the cylinder walls, that even the best rings cannot control it.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.

Allan Songer
07-20-2007, 11:35 AM
Looks like new bearings and rings stuffed into a tired, worn engine to me. Then again, if the crank was polished and every bearing was Plasticgaged and checked out fine . . .

The oil control rings were NOT working--that's obvious. I tore an engine down that was "rebuilt" by a friend that had the scraper rings installed UPSIDE DOWN--that "fresh" engine was burning a quart every 200 miles!

I have "freshend up" lots of tired engines over the years with a ridge reamer, cheap cylider hone and new rings and bearings-- Never once have I seen anything like this after only 6 months and 3,000 miles. Of course, I only did this when the bores and clearances were within spec (sometimes when they were just BARELY OK--but that was 30-35 years ago when I was young and dirt poor!).

Are you SURE the bores were OK? Are you SURE the clearances were properly checked?

Somethin' is funky--and it's NOT merely "faulty" rod bearings!

Allan Songer
07-20-2007, 11:35 AM
Looks like new bearings and rings stuffed into a tired, worn engine to me. Then again, if the crank was polished and every bearing was Plasticgaged and checked out fine . . .

The oil control rings were NOT working--that's obvious. I tore an engine down that was "rebuilt" by a friend that had the scraper rings installed UPSIDE DOWN--that "fresh" engine was burning a quart every 200 miles!

I have "freshend up" lots of tired engines over the years with a ridge reamer, cheap cylider hone and new rings and bearings-- Never once have I seen anything like this after only 6 months and 3,000 miles. Of course, I only did this when the bores and clearances were within spec (sometimes when they were just BARELY OK--but that was 30-35 years ago when I was young and dirt poor!).

Are you SURE the bores were OK? Are you SURE the clearances were properly checked?

Somethin' is funky--and it's NOT merely "faulty" rod bearings!

gordr
07-20-2007, 03:05 PM
Well, given that both you and Leonard had bearing failure very early on in the life of an overhaul, I'd say that faulty bearings cannot be ruled out. Maybe you should be maing inquiries with some engineering labs to see if the damaged bearings could be analyzed.

In addition, maybe it's time for one of the vendors of those "white box" bearings to submit a NEW set for testing at an accredited engineering lab.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

gordr
07-20-2007, 03:05 PM
Well, given that both you and Leonard had bearing failure very early on in the life of an overhaul, I'd say that faulty bearings cannot be ruled out. Maybe you should be maing inquiries with some engineering labs to see if the damaged bearings could be analyzed.

In addition, maybe it's time for one of the vendors of those "white box" bearings to submit a NEW set for testing at an accredited engineering lab.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

JDP
07-20-2007, 03:19 PM
I just spoke to a vendor that does not sell the bearings from the far east and he had some input. He's had several customers that didn't buy the Federal Moguls from him because of the higher price, then came back for a set because of a rod bearing failure. Having said that, it still could be a unrelated failure, but I think we should explore the option of deciding if the 'white box' bearing are the same quality as the name brand. I may be wasting money, but I've made my choice to spend the extra money. Maybe if I can buying the name brand bearing, they'll keep making them.:)

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
07-20-2007, 03:19 PM
I just spoke to a vendor that does not sell the bearings from the far east and he had some input. He's had several customers that didn't buy the Federal Moguls from him because of the higher price, then came back for a set because of a rod bearing failure. Having said that, it still could be a unrelated failure, but I think we should explore the option of deciding if the 'white box' bearing are the same quality as the name brand. I may be wasting money, but I've made my choice to spend the extra money. Maybe if I can buying the name brand bearing, they'll keep making them.:)

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

wally
07-21-2007, 12:22 AM
I feel your pain, Anne. Does kinda make you sick to hafta do the job all over, again. That said, I concur with several other posters here, in that making a hasty judgement about the source of bearings being the cause of the problem. Large manufacturers have plants all over the world, and sometimes package stuff unbranded or bulkkpacked to sell to other companies at quantity discounts. Philosophically speaking, it would seem to me that consumers in poorer countries would be more likely to overhaul an engine and get more life out of a car, than in affluent countries that have a throw-away mentality. So, they'd expect reasonably good parts at a low price. Looking over your photos, The piston rings oviously were not sealing, judging by the oil-washed bright areas on the piston top. The overlay is completely wiped out on the rod inserts. Just a guess, but it may've been due to excessive clearance(worn journals or wrong sizing), that hammered out the bearings in a few hundred miles or so. If the bearings are that rough now, don't expect to reuse your crank as-is! Yes, I've been there & done that and learned by bitter experience. Hope you have better luck next time.

wally
07-21-2007, 12:22 AM
I feel your pain, Anne. Does kinda make you sick to hafta do the job all over, again. That said, I concur with several other posters here, in that making a hasty judgement about the source of bearings being the cause of the problem. Large manufacturers have plants all over the world, and sometimes package stuff unbranded or bulkkpacked to sell to other companies at quantity discounts. Philosophically speaking, it would seem to me that consumers in poorer countries would be more likely to overhaul an engine and get more life out of a car, than in affluent countries that have a throw-away mentality. So, they'd expect reasonably good parts at a low price. Looking over your photos, The piston rings oviously were not sealing, judging by the oil-washed bright areas on the piston top. The overlay is completely wiped out on the rod inserts. Just a guess, but it may've been due to excessive clearance(worn journals or wrong sizing), that hammered out the bearings in a few hundred miles or so. If the bearings are that rough now, don't expect to reuse your crank as-is! Yes, I've been there & done that and learned by bitter experience. Hope you have better luck next time.

r1lark
07-21-2007, 09:57 AM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

I just spoke to a vendor that does not sell the bearings from the far east and he had some input. He's had several customers that didn't buy the Federal Moguls from him because of the higher price, then came back for a set because of a rod bearing failure. Having said that, it still could be a unrelated failure, but I think we should explore the option of deciding if the 'white box' bearing are the same quality as the name brand. I may be wasting money, but I've made my choice to spend the extra money. Maybe if I can buying the name brand bearing, they'll keep making them.:)

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

OK, we have been bouncing this sub-standard 'off-shore' rod bearing possibility back and forth, but with no details.

Do the backside of the 'off-shore' shells have NO numbers and/or manufacturer's name at all? If they do have something, what is it? Is there a certain manufacturer's name, brand name, number, etc that we need to watch out for?

Also, if those who have had the recent bearing failures can provide the info from the back side of the shells, we may be able to establish some sort of trend here.

Paul

Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: http://hometown.aol.com/r1skytop/myhomepage/index.html

r1lark
07-21-2007, 09:57 AM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

I just spoke to a vendor that does not sell the bearings from the far east and he had some input. He's had several customers that didn't buy the Federal Moguls from him because of the higher price, then came back for a set because of a rod bearing failure. Having said that, it still could be a unrelated failure, but I think we should explore the option of deciding if the 'white box' bearing are the same quality as the name brand. I may be wasting money, but I've made my choice to spend the extra money. Maybe if I can buying the name brand bearing, they'll keep making them.:)

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

OK, we have been bouncing this sub-standard 'off-shore' rod bearing possibility back and forth, but with no details.

Do the backside of the 'off-shore' shells have NO numbers and/or manufacturer's name at all? If they do have something, what is it? Is there a certain manufacturer's name, brand name, number, etc that we need to watch out for?

Also, if those who have had the recent bearing failures can provide the info from the back side of the shells, we may be able to establish some sort of trend here.

Paul

Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: http://hometown.aol.com/r1skytop/myhomepage/index.html

JDP
07-21-2007, 03:48 PM
The back is blank, nothing at all stamped, and the babbitt is a different shade of color then the branded ones.

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
07-21-2007, 03:48 PM
The back is blank, nothing at all stamped, and the babbitt is a different shade of color then the branded ones.

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

Guido
07-21-2007, 04:21 PM
quote:Originally posted by hotwheels63r2

I can't go into details on the forum.
[?][?][?][?] If that is the case, why make a post at all? [?][?][?][?]

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctor’s buggy; Studebaker horse drawn “Izzer” buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
07-21-2007, 04:21 PM
quote:Originally posted by hotwheels63r2

I can't go into details on the forum.
[?][?][?][?] If that is the case, why make a post at all? [?][?][?][?]

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctor’s buggy; Studebaker horse drawn “Izzer” buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

wally
07-21-2007, 04:44 PM
I have here a set of bottom-dollar plain box rod bearings, and plain-box main bearings for Studebaker V8. Inside the box, the beaings are shrink-wrapped to a card that says "Federal Mogul", and "Made In Mexico". The Inserts have a part number and the undersize stamped on them. The box containing the Main bearings says "Made In Taiwan", and the bearings are shrink-wrapped, though with no brand name. They do have the undersize(.010) and a part number on each one. Both came from the same vendor, who told me that they did not have as many layers of metals(just copper over steel and then lead/tin alloy) as some of the pricier bearings currently available for more popular engines, but that they should easily meet original equipment standards. Take it for what it is worth. I plan to use them, anyway.

wally
07-21-2007, 04:44 PM
I have here a set of bottom-dollar plain box rod bearings, and plain-box main bearings for Studebaker V8. Inside the box, the beaings are shrink-wrapped to a card that says "Federal Mogul", and "Made In Mexico". The Inserts have a part number and the undersize stamped on them. The box containing the Main bearings says "Made In Taiwan", and the bearings are shrink-wrapped, though with no brand name. They do have the undersize(.010) and a part number on each one. Both came from the same vendor, who told me that they did not have as many layers of metals(just copper over steel and then lead/tin alloy) as some of the pricier bearings currently available for more popular engines, but that they should easily meet original equipment standards. Take it for what it is worth. I plan to use them, anyway.

JDP
07-21-2007, 06:21 PM
You should be just fine the Federal Mogul rods, they have never given me a problem and I've not head of a issue on the Chinese mains. The issue, if there is one, is with the rods. (That's still a big if)

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
07-21-2007, 06:21 PM
You should be just fine the Federal Mogul rods, they have never given me a problem and I've not head of a issue on the Chinese mains. The issue, if there is one, is with the rods. (That's still a big if)

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

avantilover
07-21-2007, 06:45 PM
quote:Originally posted by ralt12

The other possibility that hasn't been mentioned is the methodology surrounding startup of a "dry" engine. Not only do bearing surfaces have not have the proper assembly material on them during assembly, but the engine has to be brought to a proper pressure before starting the car for the first time. I've seen a number of engines fail in this manner.

Can someone explain this to me, I'm not a mechanic and don't understand how you would bring an un-started engine's oil pressure up.

John Clements
Avantilover, your South Australian Studebaker lover!!!
Lockleys South Australia

avantilover
07-21-2007, 06:45 PM
quote:Originally posted by ralt12

The other possibility that hasn't been mentioned is the methodology surrounding startup of a "dry" engine. Not only do bearing surfaces have not have the proper assembly material on them during assembly, but the engine has to be brought to a proper pressure before starting the car for the first time. I've seen a number of engines fail in this manner.

Can someone explain this to me, I'm not a mechanic and don't understand how you would bring an un-started engine's oil pressure up.

John Clements
Avantilover, your South Australian Studebaker lover!!!
Lockleys South Australia

Guido
07-21-2007, 07:22 PM
You can pull the distributor and spin the shaft on the oil pump using a hand held drill.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctor’s buggy; Studebaker horse drawn “Izzer” buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
07-21-2007, 07:22 PM
You can pull the distributor and spin the shaft on the oil pump using a hand held drill.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctor’s buggy; Studebaker horse drawn “Izzer” buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Roscomacaw
07-21-2007, 08:31 PM
Pre-lube. I did this with Pete's recent transplant. The engine he got was one that had been assembled a year or two before it was put into service.
I have a brass rod - close to the same diameter as the pump drive shaft on the V8 distributor - with a drive tab ground onto one end of it. I chuck the other end in a beefy drill motor, slip the tab into the oil pump's drive slot (this is with the distributor removed of course;)) and spin it up until oil pressure is developed. Once pressure is developed, I slowly rotate the engine crankshaft thru one or two full revolutions. This allows oil to flow thru the cross-drilled passageways in the crankshaft and insures that all the journals have gotten an initial oiling.[^]



Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
07-21-2007, 08:31 PM
Pre-lube. I did this with Pete's recent transplant. The engine he got was one that had been assembled a year or two before it was put into service.
I have a brass rod - close to the same diameter as the pump drive shaft on the V8 distributor - with a drive tab ground onto one end of it. I chuck the other end in a beefy drill motor, slip the tab into the oil pump's drive slot (this is with the distributor removed of course;)) and spin it up until oil pressure is developed. Once pressure is developed, I slowly rotate the engine crankshaft thru one or two full revolutions. This allows oil to flow thru the cross-drilled passageways in the crankshaft and insures that all the journals have gotten an initial oiling.[^]



Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

avantilover
07-22-2007, 12:03 AM
AH, the magic of the power drill LOL. Thanks to Gary and Bob, that makes sense.

John Clements
Avantilover, your South Australian Studebaker lover!!!
Lockleys South Australia

avantilover
07-22-2007, 12:03 AM
AH, the magic of the power drill LOL. Thanks to Gary and Bob, that makes sense.

John Clements
Avantilover, your South Australian Studebaker lover!!!
Lockleys South Australia

JDP
07-22-2007, 12:06 AM
BTW, spin the drill backwards, when it picks up suction, be ready for the torque.

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
07-22-2007, 12:06 AM
BTW, spin the drill backwards, when it picks up suction, be ready for the torque.

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

54-61-62
07-22-2007, 12:22 AM
quote:Originally posted by hotwheels63r2


I can't go into details on the forum. I think all the needed info is already here. (stick with a name you recognize)

The cheap bearings are Off Topic, and probably not the cause of Annes engine failure.


Studebaker repop bearing failure off topic? huh? What part of that logic am I missing[?]

Or is everyone scared to bring up the topic since it might involve bearings sold by the prez of our club?

54-61-62
07-22-2007, 12:22 AM
quote:Originally posted by hotwheels63r2


I can't go into details on the forum. I think all the needed info is already here. (stick with a name you recognize)

The cheap bearings are Off Topic, and probably not the cause of Annes engine failure.


Studebaker repop bearing failure off topic? huh? What part of that logic am I missing[?]

Or is everyone scared to bring up the topic since it might involve bearings sold by the prez of our club?

StudeRich
01-03-2008, 09:57 PM
Anne; does David think that the block is re-usable? ie: is Ruined?

It could just be really dark carbon around the valves, but it appears like there is chunk of block missing between the valves of #1 and loose and or cracked hardened (unleaded fuel) valve seats in that little Champion! [:0]

Not to mention the extremely rich running condition of the engine and blackened crankcase which could be signs of fuel dilution of the Oil! [:0]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

StudeRich
01-03-2008, 09:57 PM
Anne; does David think that the block is re-usable? ie: is Ruined?

It could just be really dark carbon around the valves, but it appears like there is chunk of block missing between the valves of #1 and loose and or cracked hardened (unleaded fuel) valve seats in that little Champion! [:0]

Not to mention the extremely rich running condition of the engine and blackened crankcase which could be signs of fuel dilution of the Oil! [:0]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

laughinlark
01-03-2008, 10:42 PM
There has been some points made here. One thing not mentioned here unless I missed it reading all the posts. When ever I have done any crank work, polishing when within spec, or a regrind. Have the big end of the rod resized. This reassures the bearing will fit properly.

Gordon

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t60/laughinlark/gordsjsmk.jpghttp://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t60/laughinlark/Allthepicturesonthecamera213.jpghttp://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t60/laughinlark/11-28-07130.jpg

laughinlark
01-03-2008, 10:42 PM
There has been some points made here. One thing not mentioned here unless I missed it reading all the posts. When ever I have done any crank work, polishing when within spec, or a regrind. Have the big end of the rod resized. This reassures the bearing will fit properly.

Gordon

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t60/laughinlark/gordsjsmk.jpghttp://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t60/laughinlark/Allthepicturesonthecamera213.jpghttp://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t60/laughinlark/11-28-07130.jpg

63t-cab
01-04-2008, 08:36 PM
Just want to know what you guys think about using n.o.s.bearings and not the re-pops?

Joseph R. Zeiger

63t-cab
01-04-2008, 08:36 PM
Just want to know what you guys think about using n.o.s.bearings and not the re-pops?

Joseph R. Zeiger

bams50
01-04-2008, 09:10 PM
I posted this on Anne's other bearing failure thread, and am adding it to this one:

Let me preface this by re-stating my lack of experience with Studebakers specifically. I do have extensive experience with non-Studes, though- both road and racing use.

That said, I have to say that I in my experience with bearing failures I can't think of ONE time I, or my engine builders, put the blame on the bearing itself. Here are the most likely causes of bearing failure, in no particular order:

1. Improperly prepared crankshaft
2. Improperly prepared connecting rod(s)
3. Wrong bearing SIZE
4. Incorrect torque procedure
5. False torque due to worn/stretched/damaged used bolts
6. Failure to carefully check size/clearance (plasti-gauge)
7. Oil starvation
8. Excessive overheating
9. Improper internal cleaning
10. Oil contamination by gas (from flooding)
11. Oil contamination by anti-freeze (i.e. head gasket falure)

There are other less-likely causes; piston-to-head interference, egregiously defective lubricant, and low-quality bearings... but while possible, the odds of these things being the cause of failure are VERY small!

Here's a big problem across the entire spectrum of internal engine repair: Engine internals appear simple and straightforward, but this is not the case! It looks like unbolt, clean, add new parts, bolt together, done. But I tell you- working inside the bottom end of an engine is not for the novice. It's far too easy to make the smallest mistake that won't show up till some time down the road... I've successfully assembled dozens of engines myself, but still am uncomfortable trusting myself to repairing the rotating assembly... for example, how many know that you are NEVER to put your fingers on the bearing surfaces because the oil from your skin could affect the bearing? You always handle them carefully by the edges only! My father, a brilliant mechanic, was incredibly anal when he did an engine, auto trans., or carb rebuild- he had a special, extremely clean room for assembly, and insisted on no distractions during!

I bet the majority of the bearing failures we see are not due to the bearings- really a simple item when you really think about them. Just about always, one of the above items are the cause.

Maybe Nimesh or another of our expert builders will disagree about the bearings based on solid, scientific proof. If proof exists, that would be good to know.

Until then, mark me skeptical;)



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

bams50
01-04-2008, 09:10 PM
I posted this on Anne's other bearing failure thread, and am adding it to this one:

Let me preface this by re-stating my lack of experience with Studebakers specifically. I do have extensive experience with non-Studes, though- both road and racing use.

That said, I have to say that I in my experience with bearing failures I can't think of ONE time I, or my engine builders, put the blame on the bearing itself. Here are the most likely causes of bearing failure, in no particular order:

1. Improperly prepared crankshaft
2. Improperly prepared connecting rod(s)
3. Wrong bearing SIZE
4. Incorrect torque procedure
5. False torque due to worn/stretched/damaged used bolts
6. Failure to carefully check size/clearance (plasti-gauge)
7. Oil starvation
8. Excessive overheating
9. Improper internal cleaning
10. Oil contamination by gas (from flooding)
11. Oil contamination by anti-freeze (i.e. head gasket falure)

There are other less-likely causes; piston-to-head interference, egregiously defective lubricant, and low-quality bearings... but while possible, the odds of these things being the cause of failure are VERY small!

Here's a big problem across the entire spectrum of internal engine repair: Engine internals appear simple and straightforward, but this is not the case! It looks like unbolt, clean, add new parts, bolt together, done. But I tell you- working inside the bottom end of an engine is not for the novice. It's far too easy to make the smallest mistake that won't show up till some time down the road... I've successfully assembled dozens of engines myself, but still am uncomfortable trusting myself to repairing the rotating assembly... for example, how many know that you are NEVER to put your fingers on the bearing surfaces because the oil from your skin could affect the bearing? You always handle them carefully by the edges only! My father, a brilliant mechanic, was incredibly anal when he did an engine, auto trans., or carb rebuild- he had a special, extremely clean room for assembly, and insisted on no distractions during!

I bet the majority of the bearing failures we see are not due to the bearings- really a simple item when you really think about them. Just about always, one of the above items are the cause.

Maybe Nimesh or another of our expert builders will disagree about the bearings based on solid, scientific proof. If proof exists, that would be good to know.

Until then, mark me skeptical;)



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

Karl
01-04-2008, 11:38 PM
What kind of shape is the oil pump in?

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/twnchgr/Picture2061-1.jpg

Karl
01-04-2008, 11:38 PM
What kind of shape is the oil pump in?

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/twnchgr/Picture2061-1.jpg