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  • Electrical: Turn Signal Issues

    I thought I had this thing licked. Over the winter I re-wired my 51 Studebaker Coupe (engine compartment, dash, brake and turn signals.) Everything seems to work as intended (head lights, high beam, break lights, turn indicators and dash signal lights) that is until I turn the head lights on.

    When the head lights are engaged and the left turn indicator is activated the lights blink as designed but the right brake light comes on as well. When I go to turn on the right indicator (again with the head lights on) the tail light blinks but not with the same frequency as the left and the rt turn dash indicator barely flashes.

    I do not experience either of these problems when the head lights are off. All bulbs seem to be ok.

    Don't know if I have something goofed up with the wiring but if any has any experience with this please let me know, I'm stumped.

    Phil Vacco
    51 Starlight

  • #2
    Phil

    I haven't spent the time to logic this out, but one thing I have learned from working on cars (especially an Alfa that is giving us problems) is to guarantee that you have good grounds. Run two temporary wires from the screws on the tire side of the rear lights back to ground on the battery and retest. That eliminates a huge potential problem.

    Can you tell me if your car is wired in the manner of the retrofitted '51s? I could email you a PDF copy of the wiring diagram, but it is too large to attach here.

    Since I am just now installing turn signals on my '51, I will be following your progress with interest.

    Comment


    • #3
      Grounds are good. I re-wired the car this fall and that included a separate wiring harness for the turn signals. Car is wired so that the two filament bulbs work three ways; parking light, brake light and when needed the brake light works as the turn signal. I've re-check the wiring diagram several times and everything seems correct. (Prior to this, the previous owner had installed a second set of light bulbs in the tail housing and ran wires to the turn indicator. This system worked sort of . . . the problem however, was when you would brake, both brake lights would come on and wash out the turn indicator so it was rather useless.)

      What puzzles me is that the system works flawlessly until I engage the head lights. Once I do that the right turn indicator just craps out and when I turn on the left turn indicator the brake light on the right side lights up at the same time. Some how current is running through the line going to the opposite turn signal when the headlights are engaged.

      Since everything works until I turn on the parking light and head lights I'm leaning towards the theory that somehow the light switch has gone bad but that is just a guess. My wife is helpful, she says not to worry since I do most of my driving during the day time and won't be using the headlights. Just got to love her problem solving skills.

      I can't replace the light switch until I track down a tool that will allow me to remove the existing switch. (Don't ask me why but several years ago I purchased a used replacement switch on e-bay so I have one in the basement to play with.
      51 Starlight

      Comment


      • #4
        It really does sound like the Headlight buckets are not properly grounded to the fenders, OR the Engine is not properly grounded to the frame. They are seeking ground through the Parking Lights.

        Also what does this mean? "Since everything works until I turn on the parking light and head lights".

        The Parking Lights should not be lighting with the Headlights.
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner
        SDC Member Since 1967

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        • #5
          When you say you have added an extra harness for turn signals, do you have more that two wires going to the rear lights? The wiring diagram I'm following uses one wire for stop and turn, and the other wire for taillamp. For that, the wire leaving the stoplight switch goes up to the directional signal switch on the column and is then directed to the appropriate stop light(s) based upon the position of the lever.

          Please clarify the following:
          When you turn headlights on and activate the left turn, does the right rear stop lamp blink in time with the left, or does it just stay on?
          Does any other light vary in intensity when you activate turn signals?

          By the way, StudeRich made a good call on the fact that it might be a front light bucket not grounding. I was totally focused on the rears.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm still not convinced it is a bad headlight switch, but I only had to use a bent nose circlip pliers to remove the bezel for the headlight switch, available wherever fine tools are sold, like your local FLAPS or Sears.

            Comment


            • #7
              It's not the headlights that are causing the problem, it's the parking lights. Try disconnecting the right rear parking light wire (pull it apart at the connector) and see if this helps. Perhaps the parking light wire activates the brake light and it only shows up when the turn signals are activated. Also verify that the light housing is truly grounded, not grounding through a parking light wire (disconnect all wires to the unit and check for continuity between the housing and the frame.

              Comment


              • #8
                First I want to thank everyone for their comments. When I said that the problem arises when the parking and headlights are on, what I wanted to express is that the problem I was experiencing occurred only when either the parking lights or head lights were activated; thus my thoughts it was a problem with the lights switch.

                I fiddled around some more with the car and I think I traced my electrical gremlin down to a set of LED accessory brake lights that I installed. Apparently one of the wires to the brake light got pinched behind the window trim it was hidden under and was creating a short. (Still don't understand why the problem only appeared when the headlight switch was activated, but for now wires have been insulated with some electrical tape and the turn signals and brake lights appear to be working as intended.)

                Again thanks for everyone's suggestions.
                51 Starlight

                Comment


                • #9
                  Phil,
                  Did you get your lighting issue in Pontiac last weekend? I had an issue with the turn signal lever come up with mine just outside of Pontiac. Crrently, my car is in the garage without a turn signal lever. The lever wouldn't stay in position after using it to signal a turn. Turned out the metal piece that attaches the lever to the switch was partially breaking. It totally broke when I was working with it in the garage. A new one is ordered and I'm waiting for it to come in the mail. Good luck on getting your "gremlin" out of the system.
                  Paul
                  sigpic[SIGPIC]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Turn signal frustration contines

                    I thought when I found a bad ground I had my turn signal problem licked; but it appears I was premature.

                    While I found a bad ground on the passenger tail light which has been addressed I am still have some issues. Turn indicators now work wonderfully and there is no interference when I turn on the headlights. . . . HOWEVER, now when I apply the brake lights the passenger brake light no longer lights up instead the passenger parking light lights.

                    I've looked the wiring diagram some many times it is making my head spin. I would think that I simply have a wire crossed but I cannot find it. Does anyone have any suggestions. Again, head lights, parking lights, turn signals all work, but now for some reason when I hit the brakes the rear passenger tail light will not light but the right parking light does. I am perplexed.

                    If anyone has any suggestions please send me a email at philvacco@gmail.

                    Thanks.
                    51 Starlight

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PVacco View Post
                      Again, head lights, parking lights, turn signals all work, but now for some reason when I hit the brakes the rear passenger tail light will not light but the right parking light does. I am perplexed.
                      Are we all on the same page, RE: terminology of the lights. In the rear there is brake, turn, and tail lights. The front also has turn signals, but only the front has park lights.
                      Restorations by Skip Towne

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PVacco View Post
                        I thought I had this thing licked. Over the winter I re-wired my 51 Studebaker Coupe (engine compartment, dash, brake and turn signals.) Everything seems to work as intended (head lights, high beam, break lights, turn indicators and dash signal lights) that is until I turn the head lights on.

                        When the head lights are engaged and the left turn indicator is activated the lights blink as designed but the right brake light comes on as well. When I go to turn on the right indicator (again with the head lights on) the tail light blinks but not with the same frequency as the left and the rt turn dash indicator barely flashes.

                        I do not experience either of these problems when the head lights are off. All bulbs seem to be ok.

                        Don't know if I have something goofed up with the wiring but if any has any experience with this please let me know, I'm stumped.

                        Phil Vacco
                        Phil,

                        It sounds like the wires are crossed somewhere. When you turn on the parking lights, does the brake light filament light up (as opposed to the tail light filament)? It could be as simple as having the wrong leads plugged together at the taillight.

                        Comment

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