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stan zoerner
07-14-2007, 12:40 AM
Has anyone tried to put a gm350 or t400 on to a 185 flattie? I have that old six singin'sweet ,Ijust am scared to death the tranny's 50 yrs. old and will occasionaly grown.? or at least it makes a weird noise. The deal is , "Here take this motor and tranny!" but I don't want{nor have} the duckets to rebuild it right.I am not to keen on mit but, I may have to biye the bullet and go G *&^%^ C. Any thoughts on how easy the swap would be? Thanks for all you folks help in the past.present and future...

bekglm1
07-14-2007, 01:37 AM
700R4 would be a better fit. Use the 8 cyl adapter plate that was used to put the V8 transmission behind the 6 in the zip vans, and then redrill it for the 700 R4 trans bellhousing. Or, get ahold of Doug at steel solutions, and have him modify one of his 700R4 kits for a 6 instead of a V8.

The 700R4 has a much better gear spread for a 6. The low and the second are probably lower than the 1rst gear on most THM 350's. And, you get a direct 4th, overdrive, and a locking converter. There are a lot of stock 700's available that are set up for the smaller GM V6's and they would probably be a much better fit engineering wise than the 350.



Ben

bekglm1@aol.com
SIAR/ Special Interest Autos and Restorations
59 Canadian Lark 2 door 63 full flow 6 cyl 3 OD
59 Silver Hawk 289 4 bbl 3 OD
62 Lark Wagon 335 hp 4 bolt small block GM/built THM 350/Versilles RE w/discs
62 Lark Cruiser 259 auto, TT
62 Daytona 289 4 bbl PS Auto, TT
55 President 289 4B PS PB
54 Commander
56 Flight Hawk
53 Champion
53 Champ R6 Bonneville Race Car "MAYA" Raymond's Revenge Racing Team (3RT Racing)

stan zoerner
07-14-2007, 01:44 AM
is the 700r4 stout enough to be able to tow a trailer{small-u-haul] I am trying to move operations to san diego..."free garage" and NO FOG!!!!

bekglm1
07-14-2007, 01:58 AM
car builders routinely put large high horsepower V8's in front of this transmission. If you are going to add a trailer to your load, also add the approprriate additional cooling for the transmission. This will not only imporve the life of the transmission and fluid, it will increase it's efficiency by reducing internal horsepower lost to heat.

Ben

bekglm1@aol.com
SIAR/ Special Interest Autos and Restorations
59 Canadian Lark 2 door 63 full flow 6 cyl 3 OD
59 Silver Hawk 289 4 bbl 3 OD
62 Lark Wagon 335 hp 4 bolt small block GM/built THM 350/Versilles RE w/discs
62 Lark Cruiser 259 auto, TT
62 Daytona 289 4 bbl PS Auto, TT
55 President 289 4B PS PB
54 Commander
56 Flight Hawk
53 Champion
53 Champ R6 Bonneville Race Car "MAYA" Raymond's Revenge Racing Team (3RT Racing)

sbca96
07-14-2007, 03:01 PM
The 700R4 is a wonderful transmission .... as long as you get one that
is from a 1988 or NEWER car. The early 700s are junk. For a straight
6 you might also look into a 200-4R trans, which was used mostly in a
number of V6 GM cars. Towing isnt a problem for either trans, what is
required is a trans cooler. I wouldnt go through the hassle of putting
in a GM trans UNLESS you get an overdrive model (700/200).

I dont know if either Steeltech or Myers makes a 6 cylinder version,
either have email addresses you can contact them through. Actually I
think that even Fairborn currently has a GM trans adapter. I have the
Steeltech one from back when he was just Dave Levesque. Worked well.

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

Dick Steinkamp
07-14-2007, 04:03 PM
quote:Originally posted by bekglm1
The 700R4 has a much better gear spread for a 6. The low and the second are probably lower than the 1rst gear on most THM 350's. And, you get a direct 4th, overdrive, and a locking converter.


Here's the ratio's...

TH350
2.52
1.52
1

TH700R4
3.06
1.83
1
.72

TH2004R
2.74
1.57
1
.67

The TH2004R's low is not as deep as the TH700R4's which gives it a better gear spread, but it's OD is pretty steep. The 6 may not be able to pull that OD very often.

TH350's are about half the cost of a TH700 or TH200 (as low as $600-700 rebuilt).

The "modern" version of the TH700R4 is the electronically controlled 4L60E.

The TH400 is physically large, heavy, and robs a lot of HP. Unless your 6 is making north of 500 HP, I wouldn't consider it as an option.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

bams50
07-14-2007, 04:37 PM
Any more info/suggestions anyone has on this subject would be great! The trans. in Gertie (59 Lark flat) seems to be working, but now I'm wondering if it would make more sense to update while I've got the engine out... original plan was oil change and front/rear seals and put back in seeing that it shifts fine; but if I was going to change now would be the time... it does have a really sloppy output shaft, which I still haven't determined if it's normal or not...

This will, of course, not be a show car- but a basically stock driver with dual m/c, and maybe non-correct upholstery...



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

PackardV8
07-14-2007, 04:38 PM
Greetings, All,

As always, your car, your money, but you asked for advice. Sorry, but I just don't see the point of even considering a transmission swap for the flathead six. The only reason imaginable to keep the Champ six in a Studebaker is that it is a restored show car. With a transmission swap, it is no longer in the restored class.

IMHO, the car needs a better engine way more than it needs a better transmission. Once the door is opened to swaps, there is no stopping place. A Studebaker V8 with a B-W Powershift or a 200-4R swap. A McKinnon V8 with a 200-4R, all these bolt in and are reasonable in price. Once you have a V8, you will wonder why you didn't do it years ago.

(P.S. anyone who brings up vastly better fuel mileage as a reason to keep the Champ six should look at the results of the Mobilgas Economy Run back when the cars were new. The 1953 Commander V8 got 24.50 mpg and the Champion six-cylinder 26.86 mpg, less than 10% better under the same road and speed conditions. The 1953 results were the only ones I could find quickly. Some years, the V8s were actually more economical.)

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

stan zoerner
07-14-2007, 05:15 PM
What is a McKinnon v8? I just want to have some fun when I open the hood and all those other jokers say "wow that flathead is still runnin' with 200,000 miles,,,and it don't smoke..." Altho kinda low on power it is sooooo nice at a gas station to check my oil level and get asked questions.

sbca96
07-14-2007, 05:15 PM
Jack, sometimes we do things JUST to prove we can, and also to have a
car thats different (hense we have Studebakers not Hondas). I think a
Stude straight 6 with a modern OD automatic would be interesting. I do
know that the deep 1st gear will really pick the weak 6 up, it was an
amazing difference going from the FOM to the 700 in my Hawk. The 700
REALLY woke up my modified Stude V8. Granted you wont have the loss
in a manual that the FOM had, but the lower first will be interesting.

When considering swaps like these, I agree its best to weigh all other
options along with it. Its critical to map a plan, and not just go on
trends and hunches. You end up all over the place, and with a lot less
money in the end. Ask yourself what you want to end up with.

Tom


quote:Originally posted by PackardV8
Sorry, but I just don't see the point of even considering a transmission swap for the flathead six. The only reason imaginable to keep the Champ six in a Studebaker is that it is a restored show car....IMHO, the car needs a better engine way more than it needs a better transmission.

bams50
07-14-2007, 05:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by PackardV8


As always, your car, your money, but you asked for advice. Sorry, but I just don't see the point of even considering a transmission swap for the flathead six.

For me, I just happen to LOVE the sound of the old flattie[^] I know that puts me in a VERY small minority, but not every car needs to be filling the wheel openings with smoke or hurtling down a dragstrip! I just love that purr; I've got a V8 wagon (love that too) and just got a GT donor with a 289 4-spd. that I'll use to build a mild muscle-car. But there's plenty of room for a 6 banger in my collection; after all, how could a car called Ol' Gertie have anything BUT a flat 6?[^] The 6s are enjoyable to drive, and a good change from all the 8s and conversions.

Having said that, the reason to swap is to have a more efficient, durable, and/or dependable trans. that might be easier and cheaper to get rebuilt when necessary. Plus the right trans. will be geared better for everyday drivability. Like the dual M/C, this is an upgrade to more modern technology that improves everyday practical use- yet sitting with the hood up will appear to most onlookers to be just as she was born[^]

No offense to the power guys; I like them too. But I'm staying with the flattie for this one!

It's true we asked for advice... I appreciate it! But now you know why one would consider the subject of this thread;)

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
07-14-2007, 05:30 PM
quote:Originally posted by sbca96

Jack, sometimes we do things JUST to prove we can

Huh... interesting... never thought of that one, Tom! But I can assure you- that's never a a reason for me. I've had a life that's been blessed with enough success that I don't have anything to prove to anybody[^]

My reasons are stated above;)

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

stan zoerner
07-14-2007, 06:02 PM
I have to say "I LOVE THE SOUND TOO!" We have lots of foriegn cars here in S.F..They all look and sound the same. I have to say I will never lose my car in a parking lot,and at almost every stoplite someone will ask if it's some custom or new style of T-Bird..I'm not to happy about the F//d inference,but I like that people think it's NEW.LOL .I will see if I can find someone that will trade the 350/350 that I have for a 700r4.

sbca96
07-14-2007, 08:59 PM
Careful of anyone that would trade a 700 for a 350, its probably a
burned up early model, and only good for a mail box stand in Texas.[:p]
The early ones need parts to beef them up, and CAN be brought up to a
later standing, but it requires more money then rebuilding the right
one the first time. If you look around you can find used good ones
for pretty cheap these days (250-400 complete). With my Hawks swap I
just used a 30k mile one, with a quick checkup. Its now in my Dad's
1969 Avanti II.

Bams .. I meant prove to yourself. Thats why I took on the Cobra/GT
brake project, I didnt see a reason why I couldnt do it. While I do
care what others think, I set goals for myself.;)

Tom


quote:Originally posted by stan zoerner
I will see if I can find someone that will trade the 350/350 that I have for a 700r4.

bekglm1
07-19-2007, 11:08 PM
200 R4's were the most failure prone transmissions GM ever built (probably worse than the 58 turbo glide that was put behind the 348). GM was sued for millions by class action groups over this trans (200). Stay away at any cost. There are a lot of good 700's available at very good prices. Most flexible, lightest, most common for smaller to larger swaps. It's just a great transmission.

Ben

bekglm1@aol.com
SIAR/ Special Interest Autos and Restorations
59 Canadian Lark 2 door 63 full flow 6 cyl 3 OD
59 Silver Hawk 289 4 bbl 3 OD
62 Lark Wagon 335 hp 4 bolt small block GM/built THM 350/Versilles RE w/discs
62 Lark Cruiser 259 auto, TT
62 Daytona 289 4 bbl PS Auto, TT
55 President 289 4B PS PB
54 Commander
56 Flight Hawk
53 Champion
53 Champ R6 Bonneville Race Car "MAYA" Raymond's Revenge Racing Team (3RT Racing)

Dick Steinkamp
07-19-2007, 11:43 PM
quote:Originally posted by bekglm1

200 R4's were the most failure prone transmissions GM ever built


I believe you are thinking of a TH250. A light duty 3 speed (no OD) trans that GM unsuccessfully put behind some V8's.

The TH2004R is quite stout and used behind such engines as the Grand National Buick. It will hold 650 HP with very few mods.

http://www.magma.ca/~myrenaya/TH2004Rproducts.htm

http://www.magma.ca/~myrenaya/th2004Trans.htm

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

DWard
07-20-2007, 10:22 AM
I've been thinking about doing this very thing with my Stude champion 6. Can any of these transmissions be used with a floor shifter? (although this would be a dead givaway). I assume you would have to build trans linkage from scratch. I would love to hear some more on this subject. I have my own machine shop--maybe I can build us all adapter plates. Dan

41 Frank
07-20-2007, 11:10 AM
Floorshift kits are readily available from aftermarket suppliers for all GM automatics from such manufacturers as Gennie shifters or Lokar Performance Products and others.I have a Gennie on my 200 4-R in my 41 Champion.

Frank van Doorn
1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
1963 Daytona Conv
1941 Champion R-2 Rod

stan zoerner
07-21-2007, 05:31 AM
If i can figure the adapter plate I may be in FAT CITY. I have located a 700R4 and am waiting{as usual} for Social Security to catch up to my demands. I really appreciate your info folks and am also glad some others don't think i am too much of a nut to want to keep my flattie. Believe or not SOME people here have heard my engine at a stoplite and rolled down thier window to say "Glad to hear that flat Purr!" I am not into a pure stock car. I want to enjoy it, and the next thing will probably be a dual master cyl. If i had unlimited income I would have a fleet of Studes, since I don't and my health won't let me earn a living anymore,I'll just pick you guys brains and enjoy doing what I can. Thanks again for your input!!!

chocolate turkey
07-21-2007, 09:43 AM
There is a gent in Vancouver, B.C. who has built a couple of 6 cylinder to G.M. auto trans adapters. I'm not sure of his name but could easily find out.
my email address is in T.W. if you want me to refer you.

Brian

Brian K. Curtis

jimmijim8
07-21-2007, 10:20 AM
Trans coolers are good as long as you don't mount them on the front side of your radiator. My opinion and my experience is that the optional cooler on a brand-x of mine introdeced heat into the radiator thus causing the motor to overheat and thus the tranny was ruined by the hot fluid returning from the cooler within the radiator. What a vicious cycle. The instructions said for optimuum cooling locate it in front of the rad. I was pulling a 2500 lb. boat with a Toronado 1982 with a automatic overdrive. The car worked fine for one boating season. The tranny gave up shortly after the first and only overheat episode right after obstructing the radiator with the aftermarket tranny cooler. Frame or inner fender mount or anywhere but in front of the radiator is the lesson I learned. jimmijim

sbca96
07-21-2007, 03:37 PM
A trans cooler is a MUST, and worth adding to even a FOM.;)

Tom

Thomas63R2
07-21-2007, 06:40 PM
The only problem with making a blanket statement about some component having problems when they were new, is that it totally negates any of the proper repairs that have been discovered in the interim. The TurboGlide monospeed transmission with a three phase torque converter is a classic case. When they were new a lot of new car buyers returned to the dealership complaining that the transmission never shifted, when in fact that was the design intent - that the shifts of the torque converter wouldn't be felt by the driver.

The 200 4R is a more modern example of a transmission that was misunderstood - this time mostly by the mechanics who had never before worked on an overdrive lock up transmission. The whole idea behind a throttle valve cable, and its proper adjustment, proved to be elusive for many. The result was predictable: a large number of quick and needless transmission failures.

I run a 200 4R behind my brand X car with a near 700 horsepower 496 BBC - it cruises down the highway and runs high 10's at 125 mph with that same "junk" 200 4R transmission. Its been in the car for ~ 5 years now.

The 700R4 should work well behind that flat 6, unless there isn't enough space under the trans tunnel - then the smaller case size of the 200 4R might be helpful.

Thomas

First year Stude guy! Long time hot rodder
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed

stan zoerner
07-22-2007, 05:18 AM
Thanks folks ,I knew that Bob Andrews,Brian[vanc. ref.] Tom,{Trans. cooler input] and Thomas[ 200R4 height}, as well as others would steer me in a couple of good directions. Thomas is the deck height a problem,do you think, in a 55 Champion C-body? I remember having to use a LARGE F//d wrench as a kid to bang up the floor pan but,even though it has carpeting [unlike many of my teenage cars] I would rather not have to do that.I also have used trans coolers before,my only concern about placement,as mentioned,is blocking the rad.. Has anyone thought about multiple smaller coolers? Altho I'll bet the plumbing could be a nitemare and too much extra coolant besides. Thanks for all the input .as always I need all the smarts I can get,even if I have to borrow some .

sbca96
07-22-2007, 02:25 PM
Oh, but dont forget the all important YEARS for the 700 R4 that I had
posted early on. Dont waste your time on a pre-87 model when for a
few more bucks (literally) you can get the later (much better) 88 up.

Unless you can get the early one FREE, avoid it. I have one that is
promised to someone, but if he passes on it .. its yours (and it does
work .... kinda).;)(from an '86 IROC)

Tom


quote:Originally posted by stan zoerner

Thanks folks ,I knew that Bob Andrews,Brian[vanc. ref.] Tom,{Trans. cooler input] and Thomas[ 200R4 height}, as well as others would steer me in a couple of good directions.

Thomas63R2
07-22-2007, 03:18 PM
Stan, I have no idea on the floor deck height of your car's trans tunnel. Take a look at your current transmission and see how much space there is between the top of the trans and the bottom of the floor. My guess is that a 700R4 will be a tight fit - but that it will fit without hammering.

Don't worry about blocking the radiator with a trans cooler - unless you have a wimpy crappy radiator that needs to be replaced anyway.

If you go with a 200 4R or 700R4 you may want to experiment with a toggle switch for the lock up feature. You may find that your 185 flattie is happiest with the converter unlocked. Yes, that theoretically sacrifices some fuel economy - I just don't want you lugging the engine down with the converter locked on the highway if it is happier unlocked.

Thomas

First year Stude guy! Long time hot rodder
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed

sbca96
07-22-2007, 04:39 PM
Good points, I missed which model Studebaker we were talking about,
but I fit a 700R4 in my 60 Hawk without any trouble. The stiffening
crossmember that goes from a-pillar to a-pillar makes a great rear
mount. You only have to remove about an inch of the crossmember to
to clear the pan and have it boxed back in. Also on the Hawk I used
a stock GM driveshaft from I believe a 70's Chevelle. Just measure a
few at a junk yard. They make some VERY small trans coolers that are
not going to block much of your radiator. The one I had was about 8
inches square. As for the lockup feature. Its best to get a NON lock
up converter if you plan on not locking it up. It should not lug any
more than a manual OD trans would. Rather than doing a toggle switch
there are a few electronic lockups that run off the speedometer. These
are nice since they are set and forget. You can also set the converter
to lock up at ANY speed you want. Its recomended at 45 mph, but maybe
you want a little more speed - so set it at 55 mph or 65 mph instead.
The one I got was made by B&M. Its worth a hundred or so over the life
of the install. You should also wire the lockup to disengage when the
brakes are hit, though the electronic one will automatically unlock the
converter again when speeds drop under the speed you set.

Tom


quote:Originally posted by Thomas63R2
Take a look at your current transmission and see how much space there is between the top of the trans and the bottom of the floor .... Don't worry about blocking the radiator with a trans cooler ... You may find that your 185 flattie is happiest with the converter unlocked. ... I just don't want you lugging the engine down with the converter locked on the highway if it is happier unlocked.

bige
07-22-2007, 06:32 PM
Have you thought about how you will be hooking up the TV cable for proper shifting? The cable on a 700 or a 200 is not just for kickdown. The hook up to the carb must have a precise geometry to operate properly. There are kits for popular 4 barrels but you will have to be creative with your application.

Lock up vs. no lock up is not really an option with the 700 unless it's modified internally ( I'm not even sure that's possible ) but without lockup in 4th fluid will not be directed properly and you will burn up 4th gear and then 3rd. 200 can be run without lockup but there's no reason not to.

I've had the 700 R4 in my Avanti for 3 years and 5000 miles now. For 2500 miles I ran without lockup due to an internal problem that I was unaware of. Had that fixed and 2500 miles later just got it out of the trans shop for no 4th and slipping in 3rd. The trans was a rebuilt HP BowTie overdrive unit that had the lockup valve installed improperly, can't recommend BowTie at this point.

Adapter and Trans will be only the beginning of your journey...assuming the adapter workd with your engine you must have a flexplate that will bolt up to your crank. I don't know much about your engine but you need to be able to adapt the GM style flexplate to your crank and have it spaced properly to make up for the adapter width so the converter is set in the front pump properly. Next a jeep or Ford starter, of course the driveshaft with any vent holes in the yoke plugged ( JB WELD ). A universal TV cable, speedometer gears, depending on exhaust to starter and/or trans relationship maybe a custom exhaust front pipe and then the task of setting up the TV cable which is best done with pressure gage. Gage readings will only be meaningful if the carb hook up is DEAD ON. Shifter shouldn't be too big a problem there are adapter kits or aftermarket floor units.

For lock up the trans will need an internal pressure switch and a self grounding solenoid ( pan off installation ) kits are available. Lock up on the 700 will then occur as soon as you go into 4th and will unlock when you need to accelerate, up hill for example, and unlock when the trans downshifts. Ideal situation is to wire a relay into the brake lights that cuts power to the internal pressure switch when the brakes are applied. Not critical I run without it but I may add it to reduce chuggle when braking in 4th.

This is not a cheap swap even with a "free" trans. If you solve all the trans to engine problems the TV cable can be a real pain. If it's not right you may get a prolonged and hard 1-2 shift. If you back it off to reduce the slam into 2nd you will lose kickdown and internal pressures will be too low and you will damage the trans, eventually. Some people that have installed 700's blame the hard 1-2 shift on the gear ratios. The ratio has nothing to do with it. There's pretty much one way the TV cable can be hooked up properly to work and unless you can run a Q-Jet, Edelbrock or Holley you've got your work cut out for you.

Also, depending on the donor car you may have to modify or change the governor. A Corvette trans will shift out at 6000 rpm at WOT. Unless you've got a highly modified 185 you will be over-reving in 1st for sure if your foot's to the floor. You won't know where your shift points will be until the trans is in and working. Or the governor will shift you out way below the redline because the trans was in a truck that peaked very low. It's a trial and error process that cannot be adjusted through the cable.

I drive my Avanti a lot and wanted the pleasure of quiet highway cruising. But I must say the ONLY difficulties I've had in the past 5000 miles have been trans related. Meaning if it wasn't the trans itself, it was sorting out the cable, or the shifter or the custom exhaust or getting the driveshaft angle just right etc, etc. If your truck is not going long distances you will spend less in money and aggravation getting your original trans rebuilt. IMHO

ErnieR

[img]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/track

sbca96
07-22-2007, 06:49 PM
Ouch Ernie, my install in the Hawk went easy by comparison. It was
even cheaper than the quotes for having the FOM rebuilt. I think I
had about 1000 into the project, thats 300 for the 20k mile trans, the
400 for the kit from Levesque, and misc parts. I just used a stock
GM driveshaft cost was 15 bucks. You brought up an excellent point on
the TV cable. That would require some thought on the 6 cylinder. The
lockup I have seen non-lockup converters that claim a straight swap.
They are usually for drag racing, so the stall might be WAY too high
for a 6 cylinder. As I mentioned, I used the B&M lockup, which worked
great. I prefer not having to baby stuff after the fact, do it right
the first time and move on.;)

Tom

stan zoerner
07-22-2007, 09:10 PM
ouch is right! For a second there I was ready to throw in the towel..."NOT"..I liked the idea of a seperate switch circuit. What was that reference about ZIP vans{mailtrucks}? If they had automatics then it would stand to reason they had flex plates.{?} I am not above mixing and matching parts from different years, I had pretty good luck with some ramblers. Studebakers have more CLASS IMHO, and if it stays pretty close to stock {with upgrades for today's traffic i will be more than happy.The best thing ,is"The folks here seem to be WILLING to honestly help" no matter if they've had a pos or neg problem come up and pass the knowledge on. This is how we perpetuate the STUDEBAKER LEGEND OF PIONEERING SPIRIT..Thanks to ALL

bige
07-22-2007, 09:49 PM
I'm not familiar with the 185's arrangement but if it uses a torque converter similar to the V8 the flex plates bear no resemblance to the GM. My Stude converter has the ring gear on it and the flex-plate is simply a flat metal disc that bolts to the crank and the converter. The GM converter bolts onto a flex plate that also serves as the ring gear; it's a fairly stout piece. Using an adapter moves the trans back a little so a simple re-drilling of a GM flexplate to match the crank may place the converter too far from the trans to properly engage the front pump.

The separate switch will require dilligence to get the most life from your trans. The 700 doesn't want to be in 4th too long without locking up. If you forget to unlock you will stall at a light just like you didn't put your foot on the clutch. Not saying it won't work for you but not locking up as often as you should will shorten the life of your trans. Lock up is not all that complicated with the adapters available. Upgrading the trans so it happens automatically is worth the effort.

The TV cable will require thought. You need a bracket placed at the right spot to slide the cable assembly into and then you will need a way to fasten the cable to the carb at just the right spot. The TV cable acts as a modulator and kickdown. The placement has to be such that it pulls out enough to bottom the valve at trans end at WOT and also keep that valve at the right spot from idle to wot. http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/P1010015-1.jpg
Note the hook up on my carb. If the cable were attaced just below and forward the trans would slam into second at about forty miles an hour unless I was barely off idle; if I compensated for the cable being pulled out too far by adjusting the cable I would lose kickdown to first and lower line pressure to a point that would eventually damage the trans. Moving it back and up just that little bit, like the adapter does, allows it to shift out normally. It's a precise ARC so the radius from the pivot point is critical also. A slam shifting 700R4 is not very gratifying to drive. You find yourself preparing for the shift bracing yourself as it's about to come out of gear.

If I took the time to recount all the trials and tribulations I went through to make this swap work the way it should you would understand why I preach caution and also understand that my spirit is the same as yours. Before I put the 700R4 in I built a first gear start powershift by combining an AMC BW and the powershift. When I ran into converter problems with that swap I decided to go with the GM trans. I've R&R'd transmissions in the Avanti no less than 5 times on my back by myself.

Let me play "Devil's Advocate" so when you decide to do your swap it's, hopefully, only once.

ErnieR



http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/track.jpg

sbca96
07-23-2007, 01:41 AM
I wish I still have mine assembled so that I could take a few pictures
but I used an 89 Camaro RS TBI bracket that I bent to bolt to the rear
manifold bolt. This allowed me to use the factory (uncut) TV cable on
the linkage supplied with the Edelbrock AFB. I am concerned with the
sliding linkage that you used Ernie, but it sounds like you did your
homework. I havent seen a slider with any of the 700-R4 family trans.
I think I still have the modified bracket around here somewhere. If
there is any interest, I will look for it and post a few pictures.

Tom

bige
07-23-2007, 07:39 AM
The linkage doesn't slide. The connection is no different than if it were all cable to the carb. You can't see it in the pictures but the "slider" is bent where the cable attaches to keep the cable on the same plane as it would be if it were attached directly to an un-modified carb. In order to clear the intake the bracket on the carb had to be spaced outward which means the cable would pull forward and out to the side as the pedal is depressed. The "slider" allows a straight pull.

No need to be concerned about my setup the trans shifts like it should, when it should(G)
ErnieR

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/track.jpg

sbca96
07-23-2007, 12:11 PM
So did mine Ernie, thanks for the clarification, others might not have
seen that the "slider" type linkage doesnt slide. I thought it was a
point worth asking about, since some might copy your setup not knowing
that its looks are deceiving!;)

Tom


quote:Originally posted by bige

The linkage doesn't slide. .... snip .... No need to be concerned about my setup the trans shifts like it should, when it should

stan zoerner
07-23-2007, 04:02 PM
"Folks" you are Great.Thanks for your thoughts [AND PICS}. I have taken out the mechanical linkage of the old carb and put a suspended pedal and cable type linkage. I also have a newer carb {just a bigger 1 brrl} At least I know that this is not an "impossible" hair brained idea that I came up with.If i can figure out my digital camera I'll put up a pic too {new fangled technology#$%%^^} LOL.Thanks again..