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  • Electrical: Another 6v to 12v conversion

    Gentlemen; The old automatic transmission in my 54 Stude coupe gave out so we are doing a Stude to Chevy conversion. The new starter is a 12v so I am going to do a 6 volt pos gound to a 12v neg ground conversion.
    I have a few questions and would appreciate your input.

    I would like to maintain the operation and integrity of the old gauges as they look cool and work very well.

    So do i put in a dropping resistor for the Fuel - Temp and Amp guages and simply reverse the wires to compensate for change in polarity?

    Also I have a Pertronix unit in the Stude distributor that is set up 6v pos gnd. I am assuming that unit will have to get changed as well as the coil.

    I did a Daniel Stern lamp conversion a couple of years ago, all 6v, and would like to keep it as is. Would a dropping resistor take care of that also? Same question for interior lights and tail lights and turn indicators.

    I have a 6v electric fuel pump. Would a resistor work for that also?

    I will be replacing the 6v generator and regulator with a 1 wire 12v alternator. This is a no brainer as I have done this before.

    Would 1 dropping resistor work for everything ? I would then just run a separate wire to the starter switch on the dash and then directly to the starter.

    Does this make sense or is there a better way?

    Thank you in advance


    Mark

  • #2
    Have you thought of one of these...



    "Wherever a 6 volt battery is now used, you can convert the starting power to 12 volts. Overcomes hard starting problems. Requires no change in electrical system. Complete installation instructions included. Gives 12 volt starting power to older engineered 6 volt starting and charging circuits without rewiring. We have this battery in a group 22(9x6.75x11), group 24(10.25x6.75x11), group 27(12x6.75x11), and group 3E(19x4.5x11) case."

    http://www.antiqueautobattery.com/accessories.html
    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

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    • #3
      Excellent Idea. I will check this out right away

      Thanks Dick

      Comment


      • #4
        Very sensible conversion. Use the 12 to 6 resistor on gauges and stock radio. Definitely go with 12V replacements everywhere else. You will smile!

        Comment


        • #5
          The change from positive ground to negative ground is simple. Swap the battery leads, swap the leads to the ammeter, swap leads to the coil, may need something done for the gas gauge.
          A friend of mine in Pennsylvania used two 6 volt batteries wired in series to get 12 volt, tapped off 6 volt for what he wanted and 12 volt for his new stuff.
          12 volt charging system.
          No special batteries or fancy gear. That way he had standard parts and pieces he could get at any parts shop. No special batteries or hard to find parts.
          Me, I'll just stick with 6 volt.
          South Lompoc Studebaker

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          • #6
            Question...
            Are you saying your PA friend used the 6v charging system (generator/regulator) to re-charge the dual 6v batteries?
            If so, then your generator had better be top notch, as it will be working twice as hard!
            Interesting idea.....


            There is a dual post 6v/12v battery that would do this in the stock battery tray.
            But you'd need to have it all converted to 12v to get it re-charged.
            But you run the risk of eventually hurting the 6v starter motor running 12v through it.....if you crank it long enough.
            You will also need to change to an internal resistor coil, or add a ballast resistor and crank circuit.
            If you run the 6v tap battery, your gas gauge will work, as well as your heater/defroster motor.
            Otherwise, you will need a voltage reducer for those.
            Jeff

            Originally posted by 55 56 PREZ 4D View Post
            The change from positive ground to negative ground is simple. Swap the battery leads, swap the leads to the ammeter, swap leads to the coil, may need something done for the gas gauge.
            Originally posted by 55 56 PREZ 4D View Post
            A friend of mine in Pennsylvania used two 6 volt batteries wired in series to get 12 volt, tapped off 6 volt for what he wanted and 12 volt for his new stuff.
            12 volt charging system.
            No special batteries or fancy gear. That way he had standard parts and pieces he could get at any parts shop. No special batteries or hard to find parts.
            Me, I'll just stick with 6 volt.
            Last edited by DEEPNHOCK; 05-11-2012, 04:16 AM.
            HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

            Jeff


            Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



            Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

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            • #7
              The old automatic transmission in my 54 Stude coupe gave out so we are doing a Stude to Chevy conversion.
              It is sincerely hoped your wife/significant other never catches a head cold. ;>)

              jack vines
              PackardV8

              Comment


              • #8
                Just say "No!" to dropping resistors. At best, they sorta work for some loads. Definitely not for the gauges! For the gauges you need 2 "Runtz" voltage reducers or equivalent, one for the gas gauge, and one for the temperature gauge. And you don't have to reverse polarity on the gauges, except for the ammeter. And no voltage reducer for the ammeter!

                Change all the light bulbs. Daniel Stern should have the 12 volt bulbs for the headlamps. All the others are easily bought at FLAPS.

                Change out the Pertronix unit. And change out the fuel pump for a 12 volt one. Somebody here will be happy to buy all the old six-volt goodies.

                You may be able to get by with dropping resistors for the heater and defroster fan, if present. Mount the resistors in the fan ducts so the heat they give off isn't wasted.

                Windshield wiper motor; best replaced with one from a Hawk.

                Why I say this: dropping resistors really only work with a fixed load. Most loads (i.e. power-consuming devices) in a car are not fixed. Gauges are especially bad in this regard. Windshield wiper motors might draw 10 amps with a nice wet windshield, and 20 in intermittent rain. A resistor sized to allow 10 amps won't pass enough juice in high-demand situations, and the motor will "see" less than six volts. Motors fed low voltage under load can stall and burn out.

                Lamps may have an inrush current several times their steady state current, until the filament heats up. That usually happens so fast you see the lamp come on instantly. But run a headlamp through a dropping resistor sized for its steady-state load, and there may be an annoying delay for it to reach full brightness. Not fun when switching between high beams and low beams. And you would have to have a dropping resistor for each headlamp, because, otherwise, if one were to burn out, the other would follow in a few minutes, because it would suddenly see a lot more voltage than it was designed for.
                Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                • #9
                  To: gordr,---- I really do not agree with using voltage drop resistors to run the 6V heater and defroster motors. It probably would work, but it's so easy to replace those motors with later 12V equipment, why go the
                  resistor route?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SN-60 View Post
                    To: gordr,---- I really do not agree with using voltage drop resistors to run the 6V heater and defroster motors. It probably would work, but it's so easy to replace those motors with later 12V equipment, why go the
                    resistor route?
                    Mainly because there is little chance of doing serious damage to the car or the motors by using dropping resistors, on the heater or defroster motors. Agreed substituting 12 volt motors is the right way to do it.
                    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      DEEPNHOCK :
                      4th line down in my post : "12 volt charging system"
                      2-6 volt batteries in parallel gives you 6 volt with double the amps.
                      2-6 volt batteries in series gives you 12 volt.
                      He converted over to a 12 volt system generator/alternator doesn't matter which.
                      He then tapped 6 volt from just 1 battery to power any and all the 6 volt components.
                      A seperate fuse panel for 6 volt.
                      Took 12 volt off both batteries to power any and all 12 volt components.
                      A seperate fuse panel for 12 volt.
                      No special batteries, charging system, regulators, shunts, resistors, etc, etc, etc.
                      Just stock off the shelf stuff.
                      Yes there are 2 different voltages running through the car so check voltage on any wire before you add or change wiring.
                      This is no different than wiring in your house with 120/ 240 volt.
                      No the 2 voltages do not interfere with each other or cause any other problems.
                      South Lompoc Studebaker

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What he did is exactly like the "12/6 volt" battery shown on the antiqueautobattery.com site, except he uses 2 readily available 6 volt batteries instead of the special battery shown.
                        The 3rd illustration down, not the 6/12 volt that Dick Steinkamp referenced.
                        Place the 2 batteries in the trunk or use 2 Optima 6 volt in the stock location. Not sure if they will fit the stock holder but it's easy to modify the holder.
                        I saw a fake battery cover somewhere that looked like a 6 volt battery to place over the Optima batteries.
                        antiqueautobattery.com must be awful proud of their batteries, I didn't see prices listed.
                        Wiring the two voltages would be no more difficult than rewiring the car from 6 to 12 volt. Probably simpler since there would not be any changes to the 6 volt components. Finding and swapping motors, gauges or finding and installing the proper and correct resistors, shunts, etc.
                        In fact there would be NO changes to the 6 volt system, and any 12 volt components would simply be added.
                        South Lompoc Studebaker

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                        • #13
                          So, the batteries are charged in parallel, and when 12v is needed, they're hooked in series?
                          Bez Auto Alchemy
                          573-318-8948
                          http://bezautoalchemy.com


                          "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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                          • #14
                            Nooo.
                            Per my first post:
                            "Two 6 volt batteries wired in series to get 12 volt."
                            "The charging system is 12 volt."
                            The connections to the batteries are made using normal battery connectors and are exposed just like any other battery connection.
                            Power is tapped off 1 battery to provide 6 volt.
                            Power is also taken off both at 12 volt.
                            I have no idea how to post a drawing of the connections, it would clear up my explanation.
                            South Lompoc Studebaker

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                            • #15
                              Gord:

                              I have another question. I am considering buying the `12/6 battery from antique battery. I will get rid of the generator/regulator setup and install an alternator. If I convert to a neg ground system from what you said the only wires that will need to be reversed are the ones on the amp gauge, the ones on the coil and I am assuming the ones on the electric fuel pump.

                              Please explain why the wires on the fuel and temp would not need to be reversed also.

                              Thanks. Mark

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