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buckeye
07-10-2007, 03:48 PM
I am putting an 1406 Edelbrock carb on a 259 V8 in my 62 Champ pickup. It had a 4b carb on it before. The ports on the Edelbrock are larger than the ports in the intake manifold and offset somewhat. When I have the ports milled out can they be milled straight down or do the have to be milled at an angle to keep from going thru the wall of the intake? The most that has to be removed from the outside of the larger ports is 1/4 of an inch.

Buckeye Mel
Genoa, OH

1956 Hawk
07-10-2007, 04:19 PM
You should be able to mill straight down. I opened mine up with a die grinder though.
David

http://thumb2.webshots.net/t/58/158/2/53/30/2596253300089385702FxImoa_th.jpghttp://thumb2.webshots.net/t/54/154/6/1/46/2168601460089385702KmSKeM_th.jpg

Lark Parker
07-10-2007, 05:57 PM
If I am reading that right -- they cannot be milled straight down as the wall isn't thick enough. Been there -- done that. Had to weld up the holes.

Lark Parker aka Trim Trader

DEEPNHOCK
07-10-2007, 11:05 PM
Straight down.
Do not angle them as there is a heat crossover passage, and heat crossover side passage that you can get into pretty easily.
If you use an Edelbrock gasket as a scribe guide, be sure to use one that is for that carb.
Now, you can blend the radius from the runner port to the plenum quite a bit, but just make it a short radius from vertical to horizontal.
Be prepared to trim off the bottom of the throttle linkage plate on your AFB to get it to clear the runner. Don't cut this off if you are running a GM A/T, as the kickdown cable will need to hook up to it.
Hope the info helps...
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by buckeye

I am putting an 1406 Edelbrock carb on a 259 V8 in my 62 Champ pickup. It had a 4b carb on it before. The ports on the Edelbrock are larger than the ports in the intake manifold and offset somewhat. When I have the ports milled out can they be milled straight down or do the have to be milled at an angle to keep from going thru the wall of the intake? The most that has to be removed from the outside of the larger ports is 1/4 of an inch.

Buckeye Mel
Genoa, OH

64V-K7
07-11-2007, 07:24 AM
If you want to avoid removing and milling the manifold, just install a Mr. Gasket #98, carb spacer It's 1/2" thick and will alleviate any interference with the manifold, along with helping insulate the carb from engine heat.

Bob Johnstone
http://www.studebaker-info.org/7168422/sig2.jpg

Mike Van Veghten
07-11-2007, 02:39 PM
quote:If you want to avoid removing and milling the manifold, just install a Mr. Gasket #98, carb spacer It's 1/2" thick and will alleviate any interference with the manifold, along with helping insulate the carb from engine heat.

While this method will work...it's by far "not" the best method. It will leave large steps or rings that the air and fuel have to bounce around to get into the runners of the manifold. The overall mixture will suffer.

Do what Jeff says on properly adapting the manifold to a modern carburetor.

Mike

JDP
07-11-2007, 02:46 PM
If you try to open up a 1962 manifold it looks like you'll go through the side of the casting, but I'll defer to Jeff. I'll let someone else try it first though, looks like a lot of grinding on the small port manifold.:)

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

DEEPNHOCK
07-11-2007, 09:36 PM
Well, if you try hard enough you can wreck anything;)
Here's a pic showing about where the heat crossover passages are at the front/rear/sides of a Stude manifold.

http://inlinethumb41.webshots.com/5480/2068305040038087468S425x425Q85.jpg

If one were to just grind the secondary port openings to match [u]the stock</u> AFB gasket, they should be ok and stay out of the side heat crossover. That's where it is thinnest.
But it is indeed a lot of hand grinding...
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by JDP

If you try to open up a 1962 manifold it looks like you'll go through the side of the casting, but I'll defer to Jeff. I'll let someone else try it first though, looks like a lot of grinding on the small port manifold.:)

bige
07-11-2007, 10:26 PM
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/d6d4.jpg

You don't need much of a spacer to bolt the carb up. The thickness of the TV linkage adapter under my Edelbrock with two gaskets is enough. Yes, it may not be the best for performance but it works and the car runs well. So, if you're looking to be driving without too much trouble get a couple of thicker Edelbrock proper gaskets, bolt on the carb and go.

ErnieR

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/track.jpg

buckeye
07-12-2007, 10:52 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions. I had a friend do a little milling and then I took an air grinder and cleaned the ports up. Looks real good. If I were to do it over I would just use the small air grinder. It does a nice job and removes material easily and fast.

Buckeye Mel
Genoa, OH

PackardV8
07-12-2007, 11:35 PM
Greetings, All,

One thing which has not been mentioned on this manifold thread. Most serious performance Studebaker engine builders block the heat riser at the head with a stainless steel plate. If the heat riser is blocked, then one can mill into the passages however far is necessary. Once the manifold passages are where they need to be, just use a good quality epoxy, such as J-B Weld, to fill any areas which got into the heat riser cavitity.

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

PackardV8

DEEPNHOCK
07-13-2007, 10:07 PM
Just remember...
If you do this (block off the heat crossover passages) you [u]MUST</u> either remove the heat riser valve, gut the valve, or wire it in the open position.
I would not reccomend milling into the heat crossover passages at all.
For one thing, there is no reason to do it.
It adds to plenum volume, which that manifold does not need.
And having 'extra' passages to whistle and swirl won't help anything.
Just an opinion based on a few hundred intake manifolds....
Jeff[8D]


[quoteOne thing which has not been mentioned on this manifold thread. Most serious performance Studebaker engine builders block the heat riser at the head with a stainless steel plate. If the heat riser is blocked, then one can mill into the passages however far is necessary. Once the manifold passages are where they need to be, just use a good quality epoxy, such as J-B Weld, to fill any areas which got into the heat riser cavitity.
[/quote]

PackardV8
07-13-2007, 10:53 PM
Greetings, Jeff,

Given, you are the intake expert, having done more than the rest of the Stude universe combined. I was just trying to alleviate the fear some have of grinding/milling where there is a hollow on the other side. As you say, there should be no reason to get into the exhaust crossover. However, it was mentioned as something to worry about in a couple of earlier posts.

Bottom line, it shouldn't happen, but if it should, no big deal.

thnx, jv.

BTW, are you back in production?


PackardV8

JDP
07-13-2007, 11:55 PM
I guess it just looks like I'll go through the heat riser passage, but I'll sure defer to Jeff and grind away.


http://stude.com/man.jpg

http://stude.com/man2.jpg

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

StudeRich
07-14-2007, 05:32 AM
I don't understand why anyone would want to fool with a early 4brl. WCFB manifold when there is plenty of room in the later 2 brl. intakes to open them up to AFB or Edelbrock clone size with no problem, and they are cheap and plentiful! [:0]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

JDP
07-14-2007, 08:21 AM
I agree,but Mel has a 62 manifold and asked the question and we're trying to help. I didn't think that casting would accept a Edelbrock until he asked. I'll still sell my WCFB manifold and buy one of Jeff's conversions rather then do the work.

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

DEEPNHOCK
07-14-2007, 08:51 AM
I'll take all the cheap and plentiful late model 2bbl intakes you can come up with....really.
Can you get me 50 of them? A hundred of them?
Define cheap.
Define plentiful.
Define no problem.
Seriously.
Jeff[8D]





quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

I don't understand why anyone would want to fool with a early 4brl. WCFB manifold when there is plenty of room in the later 2 brl. intakes to open them up to AFB or Edelbrock clone size with no problem, and they are cheap and plentiful! [:0]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

DEEPNHOCK
07-14-2007, 08:57 AM
That gasket is for a BIG AFB carb.
Try using the stock gasket for the AFB 'in hand' and only open it up the amount you need.
Usually, that will only be needed on the secondaries.
One 'quick and dirty' way to mark the bore is to use that gasket and a used Magic-Marker that will leave you a fat line.
Then only grind to the inner edge of the line.
Set the carb on there from time to time to check and see if the secondary butterflies hit.
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by JDP

I guess it just looks like I'll go through the heat riser passage, but I'll sure defer to Jeff and grind away.
http://stude.com/man.jpg

JDP
07-14-2007, 12:02 PM
I bought it as a stock R2 gasket and it matches the carb, I'll double check anyway.

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

StudeRich
07-14-2007, 02:17 PM
Cheap = Cores, $15.00 to $25.00 each [:0]

Plentiful = anyone can easily gather at least 10 to 15 in their own area, since they (2 brls.) are seldom run any more on drivers. If Mel needs ONE it should be easy to find a local chapter member who went to 4brl. a long time ago. I was NOT assuming the man needs 100! [:0]

No Problem = I take them to my local machinist with the NC program all created, they get them milled, drilled, ported, make the adapter plate so they do not blow through the close tolerance edges, I pay, -real simple -NO PROBLEM!! [^] MY POINT: Why try to do the impossible with a early manifold that does not work well!! [^]

NO PROBLEM! [^]


quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

Define cheap.
Define plentiful.
Define no problem.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

blackhawk
07-14-2007, 02:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by buckeye

I am putting an 1406 Edelbrock carb on a 259 V8 in my 62 Champ pickup. It had a 4b carb on it before. The ports on the Edelbrock are larger than the ports in the intake manifold and offset somewhat. When I have the ports milled out can they be milled straight down or do the have to be milled at an angle to keep from going thru the wall of the intake? The most that has to be removed from the outside of the larger ports is 1/4 of an inch.

Buckeye Mel
Genoa, OH
Mel, I don't know how easy it is to still find those intake manifolds for the WCFB. I haven't seen any for years besides the two I have on my vehicles. Maybe you should consider selling your manifold and buying one of the modified 2-barrel manifolds for that AFB. There certainly are lots more 2-barrel manifolds around than the ones for the early 4-barrel carbs. For fuel economy with option for some extra kick when passing, it is hard to beat a WCFB in good condition (in my opinion and I've had Stude V8s with 2-bbl Stomberg, WCFB and AFB carbs). If one just wants power, obviously the bigger AFB is a better choice. Dale

Roscomacaw
07-14-2007, 02:33 PM
Good point! Those WCFB manifolds always bring good money when you see them on ebay. Alot of folks are still using the WCFBs - they're GOOD carbs!;)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

StudeRich
07-14-2007, 02:36 PM
AMEN!! Very well said!! [^]

[/quote]Mel, I don't know how easy it is to still find those intake manifolds for the WCFB. I haven't seen any for years besides the two I have on my vehicles. Maybe you should consider selling your manifold and buying one of the modified 2-barrel manifolds for that AFB. There certainly are lots more 2-barrel manifolds around than the ones for the early 4-barrel carbs. For fuel economy with option for some extra kick when passing, it is hard to beat a WCFB in good condition (in my opinion and I've had Stude V8s with 2-bbl Stomberg, WCFB and AFB carbs). If one just wants power, obviously the bigger AFB is a better choice. Dale
[/quote]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

JDP
07-14-2007, 02:55 PM
I think I see my confusion. The R2 has 1 11/16 secondaries, much bigger then the standard carb or the R1. I don't think I want to do that much grinding.:)

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

DEEPNHOCK
07-14-2007, 06:18 PM
Well, they aren't that plentiful on the east coast anymore.
I guess I took care of that;)
And explain to me exactly how the late 2bbl converted manifold is better than the WCFB modified manifold considering it is the same casting?
I've modified a bunch of WCFB intakes to accept an AFB and have had no problems or complaints.
Just curious...
What do you sell your modified AFB ready manifold for?
Exchange price, and outright price...
Any discount for quantities?
Might be better for me to refer left coast people your way so they can save on the freight.
BTW.. Your link on the Studebaker Vendor Web Directory doesn't work.
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

Cheap = Cores, $15.00 to $25.00 each [:0]

Plentiful = anyone can easily gather at least 10 to 15 in their own area, since they (2 brls.) are seldom run any more on drivers. If Mel needs ONE it should be easy to find a local chapter member who went to 4brl. a long time ago. I was NOT assuming the man needs 100! [:0]

No Problem = I take them to my local machinist with the NC program all created, they get them milled, drilled, ported, make the adapter plate so they do not blow through the close tolerance edges, I pay, -real simple -NO PROBLEM!! [^] MY POINT: Why try to do the impossible with a early manifold that does not work well!! [^]

NO PROBLEM! [^]


quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

Define cheap.
Define plentiful.
Define no problem.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

StudeRich
07-14-2007, 06:54 PM
Jeff all I know about modifying the WCFB manifolds I read right here on this topic, as nobody I know does that! It would seem that you and JDP are saying you will hit the heat passage if you use a early one (especially making it a R2 1 11/16" and Stude. had no prob. doing it on the late one!), and none of the 6 or 8 guys that mod the 2 brl's on the same late casting as the AFB one have that problem...common sense, maybe wrong, how does it matter? I was quite sure they used a different mold to cast the late 2/4 Brl. ones, they are radically different, but I was not there at the foundry and I have not cut them up like you have so I can't prove that.

Yes, our website is down for repair, it is not a click-n-buy type anyway, just contact info.

I do not quote prices or discuss business on the forum, that's what email is for. rich@studebakersnorthwest.com

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

JDP
07-14-2007, 07:05 PM
I did not say it "would hit", just looked like it would with the bigger R2 secondaries and although I trust Jeff, that's more metal then I want to grind anyway. :)

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

DEEPNHOCK
07-14-2007, 07:42 PM
Interesting...
I must be doing it all wrong[:0].
Here I am doing intake manifolds, and I am telling others here how to do it themselves[:0]...
I just want to see more Stude's on the road...
I sent you an e-mail btw...
Jeff



quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

&lt;snip&gt;
I do not quote prices or discuss business on the forum, that's what email is for.