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MikeWay
07-08-2007, 01:26 PM
OK, you guys and gals have me a little concerned.

In my younger days, I restored/rebuilt/hopped up 7 Corvairs and I have done a lot of maintenance and repair on RVs and other types vehicles, but ...

As I read the posts in this fora, i see pullers being modified with custom bolts heads, I see fuel pumps re-engineered with custom brass pins, and pictures of a lot of superior and very creative work. I am wondering what you guys see as a minimum (machine) shop. Turns out I have lots of tools from the Corvair days but I am lacking in the machine variety.

What are your recommendations?? What do I really need for that car everyone was laughing at on Monday that I may get on eBay today??

Mike

Stiil looking

JeffDeWitt
07-08-2007, 01:49 PM
What are you trying to do? If it's a restoration I don't think you need anything other than normal mechanics tools and maybe a couple of special Studebaker tools (rear drum puller, harmonic balancer pusher).

Jeff DeWitt

N8N
07-08-2007, 02:55 PM
I couldn't live without a good drill press and tap and die set.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

sbca96
07-08-2007, 03:37 PM
Sorry.[:p][:I]

Tom


quote:Originally posted by MikeWay
As I read the posts in this fora, i see pullers being modified with custom bolts heads, I see fuel pumps re-engineered with custom brass pins, and pictures of a lot of superior and very creative work.

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

ROADRACELARK
07-08-2007, 03:58 PM
In Jeff's list of shop tools, I'd add a cylinder leak down tester. You can buy them reasonable now. Yes the compression guage tells you WHICH cylinder(s) is low, but the leak-down tester tells you WHY it's low. Just my thought. :)

Dan Miller
Atlanta, GA

[img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
Road Racers turn left AND right.

JDP
07-08-2007, 04:05 PM
I could not live without my air tools or cutting torch. (for stubborn bolts)

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

DEEPNHOCK
07-08-2007, 04:12 PM
Stuff you should have in your shop to work on a Stude....
Pretty good question.
Split your list in two and separate maintenance/repair from restoration.
Here's a stab at both area's....

Maintenance/Repair
* Stude Shop Manual
* Good dwell/tach
*Set back timing light
*Vacuum gauge
*Compression gauge
*Spark plug gap tool
*Feeler gauge set
*point file
*Voltmeter
*test light
*Stude specific hub puller
*Brake spoon
*Hydraulic jack
*Jackstands
*drain pan
*Oil filter wrench
*Steering wheel puller
*Decent 50 gallon air compressor [u](NOT OILESS!!!)</u>
*Air impact wrench set

Restoration/Rebuilding
*Mig welder (gas type)
*Bodywork tools
*Air bodywork tools
*Paint tools

There are more, but if this were my first Stude, I'd start at the top and work down.. Others will be sure to add some good idea's here too...
Hope the info helps.
Pic's are nice, but they won't get your Stude on the road.
And pic's don't guarantee good work.
Do the work first and take pic's later.
Jeff[8D]




quote:Originally posted by MikeWay

OK, you guys and gals have me a little concerned.

In my younger days, I restored/rebuilt/hopped up 7 Corvairs and I have done a lot of maintenance and repair on RVs and other types vehicles, but ...

As I read the posts in this fora, i see pullers being modified with custom bolts heads, I see fuel pumps re-engineered with custom brass pins, and pictures of a lot of superior and very creative work. I am wondering what you guys see as a minimum (machine) shop. Turns out I have lots of tools from the Corvair days but I am lacking in the machine variety.

What are your recommendations?? What do I really need for that car everyone was laughing at on Monday that I may get on eBay today??

Mike

Stiil looking

ROADRACELARK
07-08-2007, 05:03 PM
How does this happen[?][?][?] My clock says 4:58 (EST) any clues[?][?][?] How would I know what's on Jeff's list [?][?] Go figure.:(

Dan(jumped time)Miller
Atlanta, GA

[img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
Road Racers turn left AND right.

sbca96
07-08-2007, 06:37 PM
Dan, no WONDER you kick butt at the track! You are there before the
rest of us can even post!;)

Tom

MikeWay
07-08-2007, 08:36 PM
Thanks for the replies. I seem to be pretty well equipped after all. Will probably aquire the bigger compressor and a mig? welder real soon now.

I am probably going to need them as I just won the auction on a '59 Regal 259/3sp/OD 2 dr hardtop about an hour ago. The price was right, don't know if anything else is. :D[?]

In fact, the very car was pictured on the general forum early last week.

Mike

Stiil looking

Guido
07-08-2007, 10:24 PM
Hmmm, you would probably do well to have some sockets (6 and 12 point, deep and shallow, 3/8" and 1/2" drive), rachets to match, a couple of extensions, a few screwdrivers, pliers, wire cutters, vice grips, a couple of hammers (including a BFH ;)), and some open and box end wrenches. If you plan on working on brakes, you will want a good tubing bender and flare tool and a hone if you want to rebuild wheel or master cylinders. As time goes you can pick up more specialized tools (brake line wrenches, ignition wrenches, etc.) but the above list should get you started.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctor’s buggy; Studebaker horse drawn “Izzer” buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Swifster
07-08-2007, 10:32 PM
The funny part for me is that no one mentions that your wrenches and sockets need to be standard and not metric. All the tools I've bought and used over the past 15 years were all metric. I've had to resupply myself with standard sizes since buying the car in '03.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

sbca96
07-08-2007, 10:50 PM
Ah, but a savvy mechanic will also realize that standard sizes become
metric over the years ... due to rust! Many times I have run into a
nut that is loose on the two standard sizes that I know it should be,
but a quick grab of a metric socket gives me a tight fit! Get both!

Tom


quote:Originally posted by Swifster

The funny part for me is that no one mentions that your wrenches and sockets need to be standard and not metric.

showbizkid
07-08-2007, 11:40 PM
The two tools I have used most in working on my Lark have been PB Blaster and Simple Green! :)


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

Karl
07-08-2007, 11:48 PM
Patience,;) Lots of it.....:D

63 Twin Supercharged Avanti
64 Avanti R3w/NOS
88LSC Avanti 350 Supercharged w/NOS

PlainBrownR2
07-09-2007, 12:53 AM
I started with the standard tools:
Air Gauge
Small air compressor
The Shop Manuals and Parts Catalogues needed for the Lark
The Shop Manuals and Parts Catalougues needed for the Truck
WD-40
Standard sockets
Metric sockets
Standard open end wrenches
Metric open end wrenches
Flathead and Phillips screwdrivers
3/8, 1/4 ratchets with accompanying sockets
Wire Strippers(Nice ones with the orange and black handles)
Electrical tape
A few rolls of various sizes of wire
A small supply of splices and hose clamps
As time went on, more specialized tools have appeared in my chest
Various ratchet extensions in 1/4 and 3/8
Flexible ratchet extensions
Crowsfeet wrench sockets
Allen wrenches
Multitool with accompanying bits
Multimeters
Calipers
Feeler Gauges
Micrometers
Breaker bars(these are great for tightening the tension on alternator belts)
Compression tester
Remote Starter(A Huge improvement when working with point ignition systems,no more grabbing wire and jumping the switch)
A small Lincoln Electric Hobby Welder
A couple of MIT paint guns
I found a majority of the time the basic tools are utilized alot more. There's no tricks in maintaining the cars. A number of us do like the customization scene so machine shop tools appear in the conversation from time to time. Regarding the standard and metric sizes. A previous owner might pull what works and whats available from the parts drawer to replace bolts rusted together. I know my front tray that holds my grille in place is an attribute to that. It has hex heads, rather than the typical threaded bolts!! Rather a full compliment of tools, with some specialty tools thrown in for good measure, than only half of them, because odds are, you will find an engineering surprise on a Sunday evening and the parts and tool depots have closed. [:0)]


1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
1950 Studebaker 2R5 with 170 turbocharged
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00003.jpg?t=1171152673[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00009.jpg?t=1171153019[/img=right]
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00002.jpg?t=1171153180[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]

sbca96
07-09-2007, 01:42 AM
Tell me about it Karl, three steps forward/two steps back .. or in the
last few months with my Avanti - two steps forward/five steps back.[:I]

Tom


quote:Originally posted by Karl

Patience,;) Lots of it.....:D

John Kirchhoff
07-10-2007, 10:12 AM
I think Jeff and PlainBrownR2 did a good job of covering the basics. Although the list seems extensive, it doesn't necessarily have to be expensive. For the average person tinkering on his car at home, many of the Chinese (yeah, I hate it too!) tools will suffice. Sure, I like Sterrett micrometers, but you can buy three Chinese mics that go up to 3" for less than one 0-1" Sterrett. I'd much rather buy American, but sometimes finances don't allow it and the Chinese ones do perform adequately for the occasional times you need one. And buying "American brand" doesn't always mean "American made". Take cordless drills, you can buy cheap Chinese made ones, you can buy Japanese ones made in China or you can buy a Craftsman, Milwaukee or Dewalt made in China.

The time I don't skimp is when I need a steel tool that has to be tough and there's only one chance to do it right the first time, Allen wrenches being a prime example. Cheap Chinese steel is just that, cheap steel and it will bend and twist until it looks like a pretzel. American made Allen wrenchs will cost 3-4 times what Chinese ones will, but the difference in strength is astounding. There's times I've had to put an extension (or hoop as we call it, don't ask me why) on the Allen wrench to get enough leverage to pop something loose. I've only broken a couple but by all rights should have broken many more. Try that with a Chinese one and it'll be U shaped quicker than you can say your favorite four letter word.

One word of caution when it comes to using test lights; they're great for high current lighting circuits and such, but leave it in the drawer when checking electronic equipment such as ignitions, fuel injection systems, electronic tachs, speedos and other low voltage, low current applications. Many of those low wattage things work at 2-3 volts and your test light will draw more juice than the internals are capable of carrying. For example, my bike's shop manual has a big, bold lettered statement cautioning to NOT use test lights under any cirmcustances when checking the electronic fuel injection control unit lest permanent damage occur. In my case, "permanent damage" means trying to find a very expensive, very rare part that the manufacturer doesn't carry any more. I guess that's why I've had a test light hanging in my shop for 3-4 years now that has never been opened.

MikeWay
07-10-2007, 11:15 AM
OK an add-on query. How many of you use a lathe or small lathe milling machine in your shop. I have been looking at a UniMat. I once conned an administrator into buying a combination tool from Harbor Freight. Boy was it ugly. Worked but not precision.

MIke (again)

Stiil looking

sbca96
07-10-2007, 12:11 PM
NEVER skimp on flare nut wrenches! NEVER! Buy Craftsmen. Ask me why.[V]

Tom


quote:Originally posted by John Kirchhoff
The time I don't skimp is when I need a steel tool that has to be tough and there's only one chance to do it right the first time

John Kirchhoff
07-10-2007, 02:09 PM
I agree with Tom, any Chinese flare nut wrenches I've had were pretty much useless. An "obstruction", "starter" or "C" wrench is one that's seldom used but is invaluable when you do need it. In fact, one saved the day for me over the weekend because there was absolutely no way to hold the nut otherwise.

Something else that's cheap and worthless is drill bits. Save yourself much frustration, cussing and kicking yourself and go with American made or quality overseas ones like Black and Decker (Germany). You don't necessarily have to go with high dollar cobalt treated bits, but pony up the dough for something better than the black, mild steel ones that often come with a new cheap drill. Some of those guys never once make it completely through a 1/16" piece of steel before they're rounded off to a point on the end. The same goes for taps and dies and it's hard to beat American made Hansens. It seems impossible to cut precision threads with the el-cheapo ones and things usually end up fitting loose as a goose. The only bad thing about high quality taps is if you're stupid or unlucky enough to break one off in the hole, they're VERY difficult to grind out with a Dremel tool. I won't elaborate, but let me just say you'll use around $12 worth of grinding bits to remove one as well as a lot of time and much cussing. We're not going to talk about me grinding out the screw extractor (what an oxymoron!) that broke off before the tap.

PlainBrownR2
07-10-2007, 05:46 PM
I think one of the other bigger names in drill bits is Chicago Latrobe. These are the kind where if you can manage to round em off once they're out of the box, your doing something horribly wrong. They're a pretty stout little bit, but a pretty pricey little bit too. With drill bits I found, either buy a ton of the cheap ones in the sense they seem to shatter(I wont buy from DeWalt again because of this), or buy a good set and maybe worry about resharpening them every 10-15 years or so. The Dremel tool, where would I be without one :). Only thing is I got hooked on buying up the bits and cut off wheels. That and a die grinder for cutting off old exhaust pipe. Funny thing I have found with tools, and I think part of the interest also comes from that I had grandparents as machinists. There was no real stopping point about how many tools you can have or need. Yeah you use a certain set of tools when working on the vehicles a majority of the time, but I found as time went on and I found another new gizmo the "collection" becomes a self generated furball of sorts. I have stuff I pickup I didnt even mention there(just ordinary stuff, such as those Lowe's floodlights). Yeah, the flare nut wrenches, I should have added that in. If your doing lines with fittings, they are an almost mandated requirement. Brass is a funny metal. I have never had luck with using ordinary wrenches to remove them. They had a tendency to strip(wrong tool for the wrong application I gather). Flare nut wrenches have a contour where they can "wrap around" the fitting, rather than one end of the fitting where they can remove the soft brass hex casting around the fitting.
Lathes are great to have. We have one of the SB lathes with a taper attachment. Lathes, to me, fall under the specialized category as I have never needed to use it yet. Like milling machines and to a certain extent, drill presses, they're great for projects and custom work(I'm looking in your direction Tom ;)).

sbca96
07-10-2007, 08:30 PM
I am blessed to work at a company that has a FULL machine shop and the
nicest machine shop supervisor this side of the Mississippi (in case you
are reading this Guy ;) ) His machinist Bobby has been VERY generous
with his time, without him there would be NO Cobra brakes! The time I
was able to get from him for making the prototypes was critical! Today
Bobby JUST finished making me a new tool - a piece of 6061 round stock
with a step on it to fit inside a copper core plug. With this I hope
to install all new core plugs in the Avanti.

There is another tool to add to the list.[:p];)

Tom


quote:Originally posted by PlainBrownR2
Lathes are great to have. We have one of the SB lathes with a taper attachment. Lathes, to me, fall under the specialized category as I have never needed to use it yet. Like milling machines and to a certain extent, drill presses, they're great for projects and custom work(I'm looking in your direction Tom ;)).

Guido
07-10-2007, 08:49 PM
quote:Originally posted by John Kirchhoff
We're not going to talk about me grinding out the screw extractor (what an oxymoron!) that broke off before the tap.
Around 1980 I threw a rod in a '62 Willys 4x4 wagon that I owned and had to rebuild it. I ended up shearing off one of the head bolts just below the cap. Tried the stud extractor but just rounded it off, ended up buying a couple of carbide tip bits and drilling it out. Put in the EZ Out and that snapped off. Finally blasted it out with a torch and had to resize the hole. Needless to say, I chased every hole before I put it back together.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctor’s buggy; Studebaker horse drawn “Izzer” buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Laemmle
07-10-2007, 11:24 PM
Many years ago I was given a full set or Proto tools...then owned by Ingersol-Rand.......every bit the equal of Snap-On...


quote:Originally posted by sbca96

NEVER skimp on flare nut wrenches! NEVER! Buy Craftsmen. Ask me why.[V]

Tom


quote:Originally posted by John Kirchhoff
The time I don't skimp is when I need a steel tool that has to be tough and there's only one chance to do it right the first time

sbca96
07-11-2007, 01:42 AM
I bought a set of flare nut wrenchs from Kragen, rounded off the first
flare nut I worked on. Total crap. Made by "Powerbuilt".:([xx(]

mycatz2fat
07-11-2007, 02:14 AM
If you're going to work on old cars you really need a sandblaster,a good welder and a decent torch to start with. Because if you can't clean parts down to bare metal,cut them up and/or rebuild them again you're going to spend all your time and money finding someone that can!:D

PlainBrownR2
07-11-2007, 03:19 AM
Wirebrushes, various grades of sandpaper, havent needed a MIG, and really havent needed a torch. After 8 years on a driver the only "Guys" I needed was for the Paxton. For full on a restoration or custom work, yeah, a good sandblaster, welder and torch is great. For around town basic maintenance its a tad overkill

John Kirchhoff
07-11-2007, 12:03 PM
Yes Guido, I've found steel studs in aluminum engine cases are a recipe for headaches. I've also found Proto tools are good as are Williams...I don't know if they're even around anymore, but if you come across any at a sale, pawn shop or such, glom onto them. I like their adjustable wrenchs better than Cresent and they have narrower jaws. Their open and box end wrenchs are tough as nails and in fact, some were made to be beat on with a sledge or have a length of pipe added for leverage. Since I don't display my tools in neat rows on the wall for everyone to see, I'd rather buy a homely old Williams, Cleveland, Proto or Blue Point at a pawn shop than a shiny, brand new Chinese wrench. Wrenches are like women, being pretty doesn't mean you can live with them or depend on them.

mycatz2fat
07-15-2007, 05:37 AM
quote:Originally posted by PlainBrownR2

Wirebrushes, various grades of sandpaper, havent needed a MIG, and really havent needed a torch. After 8 years on a driver the only "Guys" I needed was for the Paxton. For full on a restoration or custom work, yeah, a good sandblaster, welder and torch is great. For around town basic maintenance its a tad overkill


He wasn't asking about what tools he needed for around town basic maintenance. He wants to know what he should get for his shop to make it a car building shop. At least that's the way I read it.

N8N
07-15-2007, 12:13 PM
[quote]Originally posted by sbca96

NEVER skimp on flare nut wrenches! NEVER! Buy Craftsmen. Ask me why.[V]

Hmm, I've got a couple metric Crapsman flare nut wrenches that have "spread" over the years. You mean there's worse ones out there?

nate

(clamp vice grips over 'em when breaking loose rusty tube nuts, that's the trick)

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

N8N
07-15-2007, 12:15 PM
quote:Originally posted by John Kirchhoff

I'd rather buy a homely old Williams, Cleveland, Proto or Blue Point at a pawn shop than a shiny, brand new Chinese wrench.


I'd add to that list S-K and K-D; I inherited a lot of S-K sockets and ratchets from my grandfather and rather like them. Of course, finding a rack of Snap-On sockets at a yard sale is the ideal way to stock your toolbox, but it may take a while to find them :)

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

sbca96
07-15-2007, 05:41 PM
Sorry, no I meant that they work well, at least in my experience. The
Powerbuilt ones I mentioned later are the ones the spread even on the
easiest flares! I had to do the vice grip process with those. I got
a new set of flare wrenchs from Sears, part of their "Professional"
series. They are very stout, but a little thick for tight areas. That
text I typed is missing the word "instead" :

"NEVER skimp on flare nut wrenches! NEVER! Buy Craftsmen instead."

If they have spread from age ... exchange them!! Thats the beauty of
buying Craftsmen hand tools. See if they will upgrade you!

Tom


quote:Originally posted by N8N


quote:Originally posted by sbca96

NEVER skimp on flare nut wrenches! NEVER! Buy Craftsmen.

Hmm, I've got a couple metric Crapsman flare nut wrenches that have "spread" over the years. You mean there's worse ones out there?