Electrical: '62 GT Hawk popping "Lights" CB

[rdcompton]

Hi All,

I recently purchased a 62 GT Hawk, 62V16543 and am having trouble figuring out what is tripping the 20 amp "Lights" switch CB. I have replaced all of the light bulbs with either the proper number or, in the case of the tail lighs, LED equiv. The tail lights and ond parking light had 1147 bulbs instead of the correct 1034. I also tried the correct 1034 bulbs in the tail light but they sure are dim. I see why a previous owner put in the 1147 bulbs.

The issue seems to be with the headlights as checking the car ammeter, with the engine NOT running, as I plug in each bulb shows bairly a blip with the tail lights or parking lights but nearly 10 amps for each headlight. The head lights are rated 55 watts (4.58 amps @ 12v) on low beam and 60 watts (5 amps) on high beam. With just the head light bulbs plugged in the ammeter shows maybe a 18-19 amp draw. With all bulbs plugged in and on low beam the ammeter shows just shy of 20 amps draw. On high beam the meter is just at 20 amps and the breaker trips within a few minutes which indicates that the meter is in agreement with the CB concerning the load.

I have no easy way to determine how accurate the ammeter is but I doubt that both the CB and the ammeter would be in error the same amount.

So, the question is: Is a 8-9 amp draw per headlight reasonable considering the rated wattage and if so, what is the workaround? If not reasonable what might be causing the increased draw? There is 0 amp draw with all of the bulb removed, suggesting that there is no short between the switch and the headlight bulbs.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Raymond

[63 R2 Hawk]

Are the headlamps original style? I have Hella halogen lamps in my Hawk and I'm pretty certain they draw much more current than the originals although I've never measured them. I have had the breaker trip on very hot days (over 100*F), but never at night. Have you tried cleaning the contacts in the breaker?

[sweetolbob]

Raymond

I can't argue with your math but you are dealing with a 50 yr old car with all the corrosion and weak links associated with that age. You should probably go through the harness and clean up everything that you can get at.

But unless you want to maintain total originality I'd power the headlights with a relay using the original harness to activate the relay and power the lights directly from the battery circuit. That should give the best light you can get and take the load off old harness and breakers. I'd avoid a larger CB.

Bob

[(S)]

Also try to clean the plug in ( I'd just replace the switch) to the headlight dimmer switch

[JoeHall]

You can replace the light & dimmer switches, rewire the car, and replace all the bulbs. Any or all of those steps MAY fix the problem. Or you can switch to a 30 amp CB and very likely fix the problem. That is what I have done to every Hawk I've owned, excepting the 56J I had in high school in the late 1960s. I didn't know much back then, so just avoided night driving and/or mentally prepared for a blackout at the darndest times. Others may say this is a NO-NO, but all I can say is that it has never not worked for me. For some reason the problem is much more common with Hawks. I reached a point where I'd just install a 30 amp CB as part of getting a Hawk road ready.

[radiotech]

Try just replacing the circuit breaker with a new one as they do wear out and can't handle the current they did when new.

[rdcompton]

Thanks to everybody for youe asistance. The problem is solved and below is the adventure.

Working on another problem, namely the front parking lights would not come on with the switch in the "Parking light" position (down) though they worked if I jumpered 12V to the"P" terminal on the switch. I removed the switch and found, with my multimeter, that there was no continuity between the CB and the "P" terminal when the parking lights were selected. I disassembled the switch and found that the insulator between the contact points and the brass switch slider was not accurately punched for the round contacts and was preventing the slider from contacting the "P" terminal contact. A little work with the Dremel tool to make the holes fit the contacts and a little sanding to make the insulator flat where it had bulged over the contacts made the switch ready to reassemble. It was a bit tricky to get back together as there are two small ball bearings on springs that provide the detent "feel" for the switch. A dab of bulb grease held everything in place as I put the back on the switch and crimped the ears. Now everything works properly, the headlights drawing their proper (Ohm's Law: Watts divided by volts equals amps) 5 amp each current. Now the total draw (headlights, taillights and dash lights on "high") is 12.5 amps on the car ammeter with no CB popping problems.

So, the fun part is the insulator. These are clearly stamped with a die and if mine was not correct then every piece stamped with that die has the same problem. It is not an issue of the placement of the insulator in the switch body as the holes do not match the contacts no matter how you place the insulator. I suppose that the contacts could be out of spec too. Without the engineering drawings we will never know which part is out of spec. My guess is that the bulge of the insulator was making the slider contact the switch housing causing a slight short circuit. Other than that I have no explanation as to how this issue caused an increased current draw. Anyway, I see the potential for any number of switches having this issue. I do not know if my switch is original but the internal and external appearance is consistant with a 50 year old part.

The comments made here that this is a common Hawk issue makes me think that there was a bad batch of switches. As far as I can see, there is no way that the front parking light could have ever worked on my car. The rear lights are on a different terminal and worked properly in the "Parking" position.

A real nightmare as replacing the switch with a NOS switch probably would not solve the problem. The other lesson for me is that there is no "magic" current (load). Ohm's law tells me how many amps I should be drawing and if it is different, there is a short SOMEWHERE. This was tricky as there was a zero draw with the bulbs removed. The parking light problem led me to the solution as I would never have disassembled the switch if it were not for the lack of continuity between the hot terminal and the "P" terminal.

I hope that this helps somebody else.

Thanks again for all of the help.

[RadioRoy]

Very interesting. THANK YOU for posting the solution. It seems like many folks forget to explain the solution, but that is how we all learn.

[rdcompton]

Also try to clean the plug in ( I'd just replace the switch) to the headlight dimmer switch

The latest in this saga is that all is well with the car not moving. Driving, especiall on the rough, unpaved driveway and county road has the ammeter jumping all over the place and the headlights flickering in sync. This is more dramatic on high beams and does, in fact, trip the headlight CB.

So..... "(S)" with the comment about replacing the dimmer switch has a lot of merit. I have received a new one from SI but because I am working against a hard deadline to get the Avanti ready for the upholstery shop I do not have the time to replace the switch until that project is done.

A casual look at the wiring at the headlights does not reveal any obvious damaged wire so the dimmer switch or the wires to the switch are at the top of the list. The next possibility is that the instrument light switch has issues similar to the headlight switch. Again, when I have time.

Oh, exactly what would I be looking for in a new CB? The original is nifty in the way that it attaches to the switch. Is this form factor available in other amp ratings? The shop manual shows a 25 amp CB though the owners manual states 20 amp and the CB is, in fact, 20 amp. Those suggesting a higher amp CB have a point since it seems Studebaker was not consistant and the one fitted is the lower rating.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

[63 R2 Hawk]

I would strongly recommend disconnecting the battery when parked until you can figure out what is going on. I know personally of two older restored vehicles (not Studebakers) that burned up while parked due to wiring shorts. I one case, the owner knew he had some kind of short in the wiring but wasn't proactive in fixing it. I'd hate to see a Studebaker bite the dust!

[rdcompton]

I would strongly recommend disconnecting the battery when parked until you can figure out what is going on. I know personally of two older restored vehicles (not Studebakers) that burned up while parked due to wiring shorts. I one case, the owner knew he had some kind of short in the wiring but wasn't proactive in fixing it. I'd hate to see a Studebaker bite the dust!

Excellent suggestion. Mine even has a quick disconnect on the battery. I will go down to the garage right now and do that. Thanks!

[Stu Duglee]

Make sure your headlight switch hasn't rotated slightly and is touching the ignition switch.My headlight switch in my 63 Hawk was slightly loose and rotated a bit and then "pop"and the ammeter went silly...I did have my park lights on so I shut them off and things calmed down(me).When I got home I looked up into that restrictive little area and could see the switches touching. After I pulled the headlight switch out with the wires on I wrapped some thick electrical tape around it to insulate it and made sure it was super tight and in the right position in the dash.

[rdcompton]

Make sure your headlight switch hasn't rotated slightly and is touching the ignition switch.My headlight switch in my 63 Hawk was slightly loose and rotated a bit and then "pop"and the ammeter went silly...I did have my park lights on so I shut them off and things calmed down(me).When I got home I looked up into that restrictive little area and could see the switches touching. After I pulled the headlight switch out with the wires on I wrapped some thick electrical tape around it to insulate it and made sure it was super tight and in the right position in the dash.

Very interesting. My headlightswitch is straight and tight as I was careful when reinstalling it after working on it. However, my ignition switch is loose so though I have rotated it back square, I have not had time to explore where it may be contacting other bits and pieces. If I cannot get it mounted tight a replacement is in the cards. I will explore around the headlight, instrument, and ignition switches for possible shorts before I drive the car again. Thanks.