Steering: First long drive in GT and didnt go well- violent shake at 45 (see video)

[62STUDEGT]

I took my 62 GT out for the longest drive I've taken yet since I bought it and everything was going good until I hit 45 mph and the steering wheel and front end started shaking so bad I thought the car would fall apart. Once I got above 50 it cleared up but everytime I got around 45-50 it started again.

I had all the tires balanced just a week ago and they balanced fine- there was just a little wobble when spinning on the machine but not enough to cause this kind of problem I wouldnt think.

I need to bring it in to the GM dealership I work at and hoist it and inspect the suspension components but its going to be a hard drive in the way it is.

Any suggestions of what I should be looking for?

http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/cybrdweeb/1962%20Studebaker%20Hawk%20Gran%20Turismo/?action=view&current=M4H04104.mp4

[BobPalma]

Mark: Studebaker had this exact problem with some 1962 GTs when new. I'm not sure they ever figured out what it was, but ultimately issued a steering damper "fix," like a power steering ram "shock absorber," to be attached to the frame on one end and the bell crank on the other, to cure it...and it apparently did.

However, at this late date, nobody should jump to the conclusion that this is their exact same problem, because so many wear and tear variables have been introduced over a car's age.

Specifically, you must look for frame cracks on the bottom of the frame around the front springs, where the front spring(s) go up into their frame cavity. The bottom plate of the frame is subject to cracking, with attendant weakness, in that area.

Then, inspect for cracks where the upper, inner control arm shaft attaches to the frame. Again, fatigue may have set in and cracked the frame in the area where the control arm shaft attaching bolts go through the frame. Inspect carefully.

Then, if those areas are OK (and may well not be and need repair), make sure all other components are tight and properly aligned.

If you are satisfied that there are no other issues, you can go to a 4X4 Off-Road Shop and ask them to fit a self-contained hydraulic steering damper to the steering linkage. BP

[warrlaw1]

What Bob said. I found cracks in the spring pockets and some weak areas in my frame when we lifted the body and blasted the frame. All repaired and replaced. Haven't needed the damper, yet, but I remember some of my VW beetles did the same thing until I replaced the damper. Good luck.

[hausdok]

Sounds like worn ball joints or idler arm. Did you rebuild that front end?

[63 R2 Hawk]

Couple of other things to look as in addition to frame cracks, check and make sure king pins aren't sloppy. Even though you have had the tires balanced, try switching the fronts with the rears, just to rule out balance issues. I had wheels balanced on my truck but it started shaking, took it back to the tire shop after two weeks and all four were badly out of balance.

[63 R2 Hawk]

I couldn't find the ball joints or idler arm on my Hawk, where are they located?

[62STUDEGT]

Sounds like worn ball joints or idler arm. Did you rebuild that front end?

I did not replace anything in the front yet but I did visually check the components the best I could when I had it up on jack stands replacing the front brakes.

I grabbed each wheel and moved up and down and back and forth and did not find any excessive play.

[PackardV8]

Sounds like worn ball joints or idler arm. Did you rebuild that front end?

Studebaker front suspensions have many parts, but not either of those two.

If I were troubleshooting:

1. Take your Hawk and your Shop Manual to the closest local lube station. Make sure you point out each zerk fitting on the chart and actually see lube come out. Have them check the steering box for fluid. They won't have the correct fluid, but something is better than nothing. If it's dry, their 90W will eventually run out again and you'll need to replace the output shaft seal, but at least it will be wet in there for a while. Check again for any movement in any of the tie rod ends, kingpins or wheel bearings.

2. If you know how, do it, but if not, have the lube shop pack and adjust the wheel bearings. Nothing trick, just follow the Shop Manual.

3. Does your Hawk have power steering? If so, the control valve adjustment per the manual is the next step. If manual steering, adjust the center play per the Shop Manual.

4. As previously mentioned, rotate the tires to see if the intensity or frequency of the shake changes.

5. Take the Hawk and the Shop Manual to an alignment shop. You want the maximum possible positive caster they can screw in. You'll be lucky if they can even get close to zero, much less positive. More positive caster equals less of that tank-slapper shake.

6. How old are the tires? What size are they? Radials?

The answer is there. Just work your way through it logically.

jack vines

[hausdok]

Studebaker front suspensions have many parts, but not either of those two.

If I were troubleshooting:

1. Take your Hawk and your Shop Manual to the closest local lube station. Make sure you point out each zerk fitting on the chart and actually see lube come out. Have them check the steering box for fluid. They won't have the correct fluid, but something is better than nothing. If it's dry, their 90W will eventually run out again and you'll need to replace the output shaft seal, but at least it will be wet in there for a while. Check again for any movement in any of the tie rod ends, kingpins or wheel bearings.

2. If you know how, do it, but if not, have the lube shop pack and adjust the wheel bearings. Nothing trick, just follow the Shop Manual.

3. Does your Hawk have power steering? If so, the control valve adjustment per the manual is the next step. If manual steering, adjust the center play per the Shop Manual.

4. As previously mentioned, rotate the tires to see if the intensity or frequency of the shake changes.

5. Take the Hawk and the Shop Manual to an alignment shop. You want the maximum possible positive caster they can screw in. You'll be lucky if they can even get close to zero, much less positive. More positive caster equals less of that tank-slapper shake.

6. How old are the tires? What size are they? Radials?

The answer is there. Just work your way through it logically.

jack vines

Oh,

So they were still using kingpins as late as '62? Wow, I would have thought they'd have modernized by that point.

[Warren Webb]

My G.T. had 54,000 miles on it when I bought it back in 1989. I experienced the same shaking that you describe. My front end was tight & found nothing wrong that could be associated with the shaking. I contacted Dave T-Bow & bought the damper kit from him. It came with the instructions on mounting complete, just as Studebaker had produced & no more shaking. I have learned it is especially found in cars with power steering whcih mine has. Why G.T.'s & not Larks with the same front end design but the only variance being a shorter wheelbase? It is a weird malady.

[PackardV8]

I remember the Service Bulletin and the damper kit. Since the front suspension was pretty much the same from '53-62, it is a mystery why the '62 GTshould be especially afflicted. Why would the shake show up on this year only? Anyone else remember a similar symptom on earlier C/K cars?

About this same time, Studebaker changed the kingpin design to incorporate more caster. Directly related to the above shake?

jack vines

[JoeHall]

I have owned the same 62GT since 1985, for around 27 years and 260,000 miles. When I first got it, it had the subject damper kit, and still shook as you describe. I rebuilt the front end, and it still shook as you describe. I changed the poly tires to radials and the shaking disappeared and has stayed gone ever since. I recently removed the engine to swap it out with a fresh one, and had been considering removal of the damper kit while the engine is out, since it is easy to get to now. After reading this thread, I am going to think this one thru a little more. The kit includes a stiff shock absorber that actually stiffens the PS and slows it down a little. I'd prefer the more free PS, but without the shaking. If I do remove the kit, and the shaking returns, it will be simple enough to figure out the cause.

[StudeRich]

I think Bob Palma's Post #2 may have narrowed it down for 63 R2 Hawk's Car.

We could be talking about two different conditions here, his symptoms do not match my experience at all.
When rounding curves especially Left the wheels seem to hop sideways is the condition I encountered with a '63 GT R1 with P/S.
His wheels are violently shaking left to right like a bad caster or toe in adjustment will do, worse with frame damage.

The condition I had which I think is the condition the Dampener is to illiminate, not only happens to 1962 GT's but '63-'64 also, but all with Power Steering.

[studegary]

Oh,

So they were still using kingpins as late as '62? Wow, I would have thought they'd have modernized by that point.

Studebaker used a king pin front suspension right through to the end (March 1966).

[(S)]

Back in the day I remember getting my brother Hawk on the road for the first time. It had sat many months, long story short I thought he tightened the lug nuts, and he thought I did!

It shook the car to death at 45MPH, he barely got it stopped and we torqued the ones that were left and went home so slow......


The lower control arm bolts are also suspect. If they are loose at all, they need to be replaced with nylocs at the minimum...