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View Full Version : Got the 3 sp. overdrive tranny in but have problem



lstude
06-30-2007, 05:13 PM
With the help of my friend, Tom Covington, we swapped the 63 Lark 3 speed overdrive transmission that was in my 52 Commander for another one that I bought from Ted Harbit. It shifts like a dream compared to my old one, but there are times when you can hear the transmission turn but the car doesn't move. It happened as I drove it out of the garage. It did fine in reverse, but it wouldn't move in any forward gear. I pulled the overdrive lever out and then it moved. But as we drove down the road, it stopped transferring power to the rear wheels. I stopped and pushed the OD lever in and then pulled it out and it moved again.

When we got back to the garage, we put it up on the lift and noticed that I hadn't tightened the OD cable to the transmission.

Could the fact that the OD lever was in between OD and non OD keep the transmission from delivering power to the rear axle?

I am too tired to tighten it tonight It is very hard to get to between the tranny and the tunnel and also the clamp for the cable is hard to get to. I will try it again tomorrow and see if that is the problem.

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/Mein64DaytonaatBradfieldssm2.jpghttp://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/AlmostreadyforSB6-4.jpg

mbstude
06-30-2007, 07:52 PM
I'm not sure Leonard. But, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if that was the problem. Tighten it up and see. :D

I'm glad to hear that it's a better trans than what you had though! [^]

Matthew Burnette
'59 Scotsman
'63 Daytona
Hazlehurst, GA

Cruising the Proving Ground Test Track
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/provingground2.jpg

Tom B
06-30-2007, 07:55 PM
Leonard, First of all, verify that the lever on the OD was mis-positioned, then disconnect the wire from the OD handle and position the lever on the transmission as far aft as it will go. Ignore the OD handle. If you park the car, be sure you put it in "PARK" (reverse) If you worry about engine braking, consider which is easier to replace, the brakes or the clutch.

I've been driving my 53 for 6 years and just found out that my OD handle doesn't move the lever enough to return it to free wheeling. In other words, you don't need the handle.

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Bothcars.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'60 Lark VI
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All three Indiana built OD cars

bams50
06-30-2007, 10:20 PM
Leonard, Leonard, Leonard!! Where were you when the seminar was going on?!?:D

One thing Ilearned is, the O/D lever on the trans. has to be absolutely, fully ALL the way back against it's stop- even the slightest little bit off will keep the O/D from working correctly; and will produce the symptoms you describe. That's a good place to start.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-30-2007, 10:24 PM
Also- to me, those planetaries seem rather sensitive; if the trans. sat dry for a long while, it may just be sticky planetaries; in which case, just using it should solve the problem.

I say, verify your adjustment and drive it some.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

mbstude
06-30-2007, 10:28 PM
And make sure you put fluid in BOTH holes, right Robert? :)

Matthew Burnette
'59 Scotsman
'63 Daytona
Hazlehurst, GA

Cruising the Proving Ground Test Track
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/provingground2.jpg

bams50
07-01-2007, 07:11 AM
YES- NOW we know![:I]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

lstude
07-01-2007, 07:29 AM
quote: Leonard, Leonard, Leonard!! Where were you when the seminar was going on?!?

I have this attention span problem! At least that is what my teachers used to say. [xx(]

I will adjust the cable and see if that cures the problem.

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/Mein64DaytonaatBradfieldssm2.jpghttp://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/AlmostreadyforSB6-4.jpg

dan0
07-01-2007, 07:54 AM
Guys-
I just went through the T-86 OD setup install. I'm here to say we do NOT have to service oil in both places! I know this may sound nuts! Take a look at the fill plugs in relation to being on a straight line, they are nearly parallel.
I had the cover loose on my T86, as I added Penzoil Synchromesh to the rear fill plug. After an entire bottle, I'm thinking..'no way' this small area holds this much oil! I lifted the cover off, where I learned the oil was flowing forward. So what I am trying to say is: both ends of this trans will flow the oil to the other section; it did not matter which end I serviced. I thought the seperate cavities were sealed, I guess not.
My T-86 took nearly 2 full bottles of the Synchromesh oil.

Maybe I have an internal seal/division problem; a 'freak' of a trans?
I dunno. The thing works sweet.

I just wanted to share what I witnessed.
...and I have a new problem. These brakes suck.:D
dan0

Herd:
06 Jetta TDI
1941 M15
1953 2R11
2001 F-350
1989 Caprice
Deere's:
67' 112H
88' 332

lstude
07-01-2007, 09:23 AM
I do remember Doc pointing out the holes where oil can flow between the transmission and the overdrive unit.

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/Mein64DaytonaatBradfieldssm2.jpghttp://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/AlmostreadyforSB6-4.jpg

Alan
07-01-2007, 11:16 AM
dano, You were lucky. I have never tried to fill from the back only. But a number of years ago I filled from the front only. Ass u me ing that the oil flowed back to the OD. Drove my 53K about 5 miles, everything fine. Then it started slowing down like the brakes were starting to drag. Pulled over to the side of the road and car seemed like it had the emergency on full. Droped the driveshaft and towed it home. When I took it apart the OD had no oil and the planet cage was blue. A word to the wise, remove both plugs and check the oil level at each. It is easier to remove those plugs than to replace the tranny.

bams50
07-01-2007, 11:43 AM
quote:Originally posted by dan0

Guys-
I'm here to say we do NOT have to service oil in both places! I know this may sound nuts! Take a look at the fill plugs in relation to being on a straight line, they are nearly parallel.
So what I am trying to say is: both ends of this trans will flow the oil to the other section; it did not matter which end I serviced.

That's the exact mistake I made- which DID result in burning up the O/D:( Had the exact same experience Alan had, only I was able to drive mine home after pulling the O/D handle. When I pulled the trans. there was oil in the main case but the O/D was bone dry- and burned black[xx(] BEWARE!!

Here's what the planetary looks like when you don't check both ends:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/bams50/HPIM2934.jpg

Yes, Doc and Gord did say oil can move from the trans. to O/D and back- but that there's no guarantee it would! Hence my problem... [B)]

Read and heed!

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

dan0
07-01-2007, 12:52 PM
Why does the oil flow fwd/back on some, nd not all?
Bams- I am sorry your trans blew up. That sux.
what did you observe while the teardown? What is between these two sections? I see a gasket; does it allow flow?
Is there a problem with my trans?
dan0


Herd:
06 Jetta TDI
1941 M15
1953 2R11
2001 F-350
1989 Caprice
Deere's:
67' 112H
88' 332

lstude
07-01-2007, 02:01 PM
Hey fellows...Back to my problem! :D

I did check the oil in my OD unit and oil had flowed from the transmission to the OD unit, but I added more.

I secured my OD cable and checked to see if it was moving the leaver all the way front and back and it is.

I took the car out again and it still doesn't move in OD, but does nicely when it is out of OD.

I looked under the car and I realized that I had forgotten to run the wire from the governor to the solenoid! [:0]

But now that presents another problem. There are only two screws on the new solenoid while there were three on the old one. Should I swap solenoids? And if so, is there anything I should know when I do that?

Here is a picture of the wiring on the old transmission.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/Overdrivewiringsm.jpg

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/Mein64DaytonaatBradfieldssm2.jpghttp://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/AlmostreadyforSB6-4.jpg

dan0
07-01-2007, 02:05 PM
Here's a link to a two-wire...http://www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/projects/over/od-diagrm.jpg
searching...
more:
http://home.earthlink.net/~dsollon/public.htm/tips.htm

More on the use of a 6V Sol from site above:
The more important thing is to drop the voltage for the hold-in coil, since it's energized the whole time you're above cut-in speed (unless you've got the lockout cable pulled out). The #3 terminal is for the hold-in coil. You'll need to install a 4 ohm, 25-50 watt, wirewound resistor in the circuit to this terminal.* You can mount the resistor on the frame near the solenoid and take the power from the #4 terminal to the resistor, then from the other end of the resistor to the #3 terminal. Or you can move up under the hood and mount the resistor on the fender panel near the relay. Take power from the ''solenoid side'' of the relay, run it to one end of the resistor, and run a 16 or 18 gauge wire from the other end of the resistor to the solenoid #3 terminal. The #6 terminal is the ignition cutout connection, same as the later solenoids.

* A good 4 ohm resistor is available from some audio supply stores, used as a ''dummy load'' for testing amplifiers. Some have mounting lugs on them, which simplifies mounting. Radio Shack used to have them but the item is discontinued. Check with local audio shops and ask for a 4 ohm dummy load resistor. A good alternative is available from Parts Express (www.parts-express.com, or 800 338-0531); their item 019-015. This one is rated at 100 watts, so will probably not get so hot to the touch. It's a little pricey at $11.50, but worth it to do this job right. Another source of "power resistors" (i.e., those with relatively high wattage ratings) is All Electronics Corp., 1-888-826-5432, or www.allelectronics.com."

Are you getting a click while switching the sol?
Are you wired per the factory, or other?
Herd:
06 Jetta TDI
1941 M15
1953 2R11
2001 F-350
1989 Caprice
Deere's:
67' 112H
88' 332

lstude
07-01-2007, 02:16 PM
quote:Are you getting a click while switching the sol?
Are you wired per the factory, or other?



Thanks for the diagram.

I didn't wire the car, I had a guy do it for me. Since it is a 63 OD transmission in a 52 Commander, it is not wired per the factory. I also had him put the OD kick down switch on the dash instead of on the accelerator linkage because I used a cable accelerator linkage.

Everything on the car is 12 volt.

It worked fine when I drove it in SB. When I hit the switch on the dash, it dropped out of OD.

I am thinking that I might just use the old solenoid instead of rewiring. What do you think?

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/Mein64DaytonaatBradfieldssm2.jpghttp://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/AlmostreadyforSB6-4.jpg

gordr
07-01-2007, 02:45 PM
Leonard, I'd suggest you use your old solenoid, the 3-wire one. Otherwise you will need a relay.

The reason that oil filled in the front won't readily flow to the OD area is because the OD housing has no vent. The displaced air has no place to go. Filling the whole tranny from the rear works because the front section is vented.

ALWAYS best to fill both halves separately so you can be SURE they are both filled. It's not difficult, after all.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

lstude
07-01-2007, 02:53 PM
Thanks Gord.

By the way, it was a pleasure meeting you at SB.

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/Mein64DaytonaatBradfieldssm2.jpghttp://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/AlmostreadyforSB6-4.jpg

bams50
07-01-2007, 09:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by dan0

Why does the oil flow fwd/back on some, nd not all?
Bams- I am sorry your trans blew up. That sux.
what did you observe while the teardown? What is between these two sections? I see a gasket; does it allow flow?
Is there a problem with my trans?



Gord answers this for us!:D

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1