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casey
06-26-2007, 04:22 PM
Can anyone recommend an aftermarket AC condenser for a Lark type with V8? Perferably something I could order on-line. I'm going all stock on the AC setup except for the condenser.

41 Frank
06-26-2007, 04:46 PM
Check vintage air website and their condensers they list by size.
http://www.vintageair.com


Frank van Doorn
1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
1963 Daytona Conv
1941 Champion R-2 Rod

Rerun
06-27-2007, 06:42 PM
I'm using a Vintage Air #03262-VUC in my Daytona. It is 14" tall x 22" wide x .83" thick and works well. It was necessary to fabricate custom brackets to mount it. IIRC, it was about $150. The rest of my system is also Vintage Air. You may also want to check with your NAPA store for your condenser.

Jim Bradley
'64 Daytona HT "Rerun"
http://home.earthlink.net/~bradley71771/images/Rerun.jpg

John Kirchhoff
06-27-2007, 09:41 PM
Going stock is great but I wouldn't recommend going with the old, used stock receiver-dryer unless it's a NOS that's been corked up tight it's entire life. If it's been open to the atmosphere, for sure don't use it. The dessicant will be saturated with moisture and mud dauber wasps probably built a house in it. Considering the cost of pumping out or losing the refrigerant, (even 134A), trying to save a few bucks by not changing it in the first place is foolish economy even for a tightwad like me.

bams50
06-28-2007, 06:28 AM
For me, I want A/C and don't care about show; is it better to try to put together a stock system, or go with an aftermarket like Vintage? I'm guessing aftermarket is easier to install, more efficient, and more dependable... what would a Vintage system cost?

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

John Kirchhoff
06-28-2007, 10:09 AM
Bob,
Component wise, air conditioners are actually pretty simple. You have the compressor to compress low pressure gas into high pressure gas sending it to the condenser up front which dissipates heat and turns the gas into a high pressure liquid, then through the receiver-dryer which absorbs any moisture (water) and also stores a little extra freon, then the expansion valve which acts kind of like the ventura on a carb with high pressure liquid on the inflow side and low pressure liquid on the outflow side, the evaporator inside the car where the low pressure liquid turns into gas absorbing heat in the process and a fan to blow air through it to make you comfortable and happy. At least in the past, the big difference between add on units and factory was the add ons usually used barbed hose fittings with hose clamps to make the connections while factory jobs used hoses with threaded fittings and steel lines. All three seem to work just fine with the only disadvantage being old rusty flare fittings on steel lines tend to result in a twisted off line. As far as individual components go, excluding the evaporator you should be able to find any thing you need with any type of hose or pipe fiting at your local auto parts supply. There are all sorts of universal components. Probably the biggest obstacle is a mounting bracket to hold the compressor solidly, mounting an additional pulley/pulleys and an evaporator that fits the confines of your car without being obtrusive. The latter is why I plan on removing the old stock radio from my '51 and then use the space to hold an in-dash evaporator of my own fabrication. Keep in mind that the crankshaft pulley does not have to mound behind the crankshaft bolt and with holes drilled, can simply bolt to longer bolts that hold the harmonic balancer on. Also try to keep the belt wrapped at least halfway around the pulley to prevent excessive slippage or use double belts.

KGlowacky
06-28-2007, 11:02 AM
Bob, I would say the new aftermarket is the way to go. First the biggest diff. is the new compressors. They are smaller, use very little HP to run and are set up for the new freon. Second all the parts are new and modern. Third the price is usaully cheaper. I have installed both Vintage Air and Air Teak and have had good luck. The challange is sizing the unit. Down here in Houston you can never have enough A/C. So I always get the biggest unit my space will hold. I am going to run two units in my 56 wagon. The cost is, I think very reasonable. Around $700.00. In saying that what I usally do is get the interior box from lets say Vintage and then I go to a local after martket A/C store and get everything else. I know some will not have access to a local outlet. Ask a local Street Rodder, they will know about local contacts. Good luck.

Swifster
06-28-2007, 11:17 AM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

For me, I want A/C and don't care about show; is it better to try to put together a stock system, or go with an aftermarket like Vintage? I'm guessing aftermarket is easier to install, more efficient, and more dependable... what would a Vintage system cost?


Bob, if I remember correctly, by the time you are done the cost is around $1000. They have a unit called the Mark IV, which is a floor mount similar to the units Studebaker used. I'm looking at one of these for my Daytona. They come reasonably complete. Some of the hoses are cut to fit, so your local A/C may have to crimp your lines for you. Vintage Air has a bracket for the compressor they sell for the V8 (I'm not aware of a 6 cylinder bracket). These systems use a R34 freon. Go to Vintage Air's website. They'll also send you a catalog. Most hot rod shops sell their stuff, so if you have one near you, they'll have most of the parts available too.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

John Kirchhoff
06-28-2007, 11:33 AM
"Down here in Houston you can never have enough A/C."

Probably no truer statement ever made. High humidity decreases the effeciency of AC more than high temps do. I bet most of the year your east Texas ACs are working harder than any Las Vegas or Phoenix ones are.

KGlowacky
06-28-2007, 12:44 PM
I have never heard anyone in Houston say my A/c is to cold, got to get a smaller one. Yes, Houston is a killer on A/C performance.

bams50
06-28-2007, 07:04 PM
Great info- thanks John, Ken, and Tom!

Excellent description of how A/C works- I never really knew how, just know I'm a big fan :) Thanks, John!

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-28-2007, 07:26 PM
Ken- What do you mean by "running 2 units"? You mean 2 compressors or what?

I'm planning this for the 57 Provincial (4 dr.)... We don't have near the heat and humidity that Houston has, but we do have our share... so while I certainly will do the research to correctly size mine, what do you suggest?

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

vegas paul
06-28-2007, 07:32 PM
What John said about humidity is absolutly true. I lived in New Orleans, and now in Las Vegas. New Orleans was brutal on A/C in both homes and cars. Not nearly so bad here, and it's been 108 this week. One of those old Evaporatative Coolers (swamp coolers) would work great in a Stude here, except they are probably twice as expensive as an aftermarket AC unit, if you can find them!

Las Vegas, NV
'51 Champion Business Coupe G899965 10G-Q4-1434
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s144/vegas_paul/1462673_2_350.jpg?t=1180041622 http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s144/vegas_paul/graciestude.jpg?t=1180041703

KGlowacky
06-28-2007, 09:10 PM
This will be my 5th unit I have installed in a old car of mine. Here are the challanges I face in Houston when I design one for my use. First is, Do you want a A/C-Heater unit. This would more then likely mean you are going to remove your old heater and defroster and replace with new. If you just want A/c the under the dash unit is not a bad why to go. I put one in a 55 T-bird and it will freeze you out of the car. Keep in mind though this is a two seater. (the unit I used was a Dalworth,fantastic) Second, how much room do you have under the dash(a real important measurement) to tuck away a unit. Third ,how much air space do you have to cool.
Here is my decision on A/c for my 56 2 dr wagon.
1) I want to upgrade both a/c and heater. Therefore a under the dash unit will probally not work as most are A/C only.
2) The space I am looking at under the dash on my wagon is not that large. The dash does not stick out to much so unless you want it to look stupid you will probally be limited to the size you can use.
3) a wagon has the most space I have ever cooled.
SO here is my selections.
I will get the largest unit that will fit under the dash I can. from my research it will be big enough to cool a 4 dr sedan. It will be a defroster, heater and A/c.
Next I will get a second unit that will be A/C only that will go under the back seat. It will basicly be a under dash unit that will not have front vents as you know it. It will have 4 holes that I will run hoses off of and place a/c vents in my 2nd seat side pannels that these hoses will be connected to.
These two units will run off the same Sanyo compressor but will have seperate fan and temp switches. So I can run one or both when needed.
I will have to run A/C lines either under the floor pans from one unit to the other or as I will do run the lines on the side of the tunnel(inside) and cover with carpet.
The condenser in front of the rad should be as large as you can fit up there. Sometimes a extra pushing fan in front is needed, it depends on the car.
Good Luck. I will be installing all this in the next three months. I will give you an update. Everyone who tries to sell me a single unit when asked face to face will agree one unit will NOT cool the back of a wagon. Again may be over kill for places other then Houston.
Sorry for the long e-mail.

KGlowacky
06-28-2007, 09:17 PM
One more thing. I am going to insulate the entire inside of my wagon with a product called Lizard Skin. It is a water base spray on coating that is no thicker then a credit card. It is suppose to be as good as the double faced jute everyone used in the past. It is real important down here to keep the heat out. My wagon is a body off and everything is stripped out of it so after paint it will be no problem to do this as it is just a shell.

DEEPNHOCK
06-28-2007, 09:33 PM
Having custom built several aftermarket a/c setups, and having goofed up on a few......
Get in touch with Ebon Jones down in Texas...
He can tell you what you need, and is a great SDC guy, to boot...

Trying to patch a freon12 system going to be expensive...
Converting to Freon134 is the way to go, but the condensor needs to be changed, along with the compressor and the dryer..
A kit does all the hard thinking for you, so I'd suggest that...
If you are stubborn and want to mix and match your stuff, here's a couple of tips..
a) Get the biggest condensor you can. As big as the rediator if possible.
b) New compressor that is built for 134 and has the right oil in it.
New dryer.
c) clean out, and purge everything out of the old system super duper clean...
d) check for leaks with nitrogen (just have a licensed shop evacuate your system, check it for leaks, and charge it.. Best bucks spent..
BTDT.. Still freezin' my eyeballs out after three , no 4 years...
Jeff[8D]

bams50
06-28-2007, 09:57 PM
After this thread I'm convinced- it's all new aftermarket for me; thanks for all the education[^]

I know Ebon posts here once in a while; hopefully he'll see this thread and offer some wisdom to us sweatin', A/C-less Stude nerds:D

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Swifster
06-28-2007, 11:51 PM
Most behind-the-dash evaporators can be a space challenge. While it can be done, it will probably eat up a good portion of your glove box and may limit radio space. Having a two door hardtop, I think the floor mount will be fine. It should be noted that the entire system doesn't need to be changed to run R134, but retrofit kits include the correct fittings for charging the system, a correct condensor and a new dryer. Most compressors don't need to be replaced, but as Jeff mentioned, the oil/freon package is different. As the compressors are old, take Jeff's advise and switch it to be safe.

Robert, check out Vintage Air's catalog (http://www.vintageair.com/catalog.asp) and check out A/C basics. It's very informative. Check out the rest of the catalog and you'll find measurements for various evaporator sizes so that you can check out the size in relation to your dash panel. As also mentioned, check out some for of insulation to keep the heat out and the cool in. I planned on using the dynamat as a subsitution for the jute backing in the carpet. Don't forget the doors, roof and other interior panels.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

casey
06-29-2007, 03:39 PM
Everybody- thanks for the input. I've done some research and I came up with the same condenser Rerun did- the 14" Vintage air unit. I have a rebuilt York compressor that I couldn't sell on EBay for $20- so I'm going to use that. Otherwise I'd modify my mounting plate for a Sandin unit and run the newer freon. Getting the correct crankshaft pulley was a challenge-- I have one saved for my Hawk project, but for this Lark I had to bite the bullet and buy one of Lionel Stone's reproduction pulleys. Lionel's prices are high, but I know it costs him a lot to have those things made. And God bless him for making all this stuff for us.

Swifster
06-29-2007, 03:48 PM
quote:Originally posted by casey

Everybody- thanks for the input. I've done some research and I came up with the same condenser Rerun did- the 14" Vintage air unit. I have a rebuilt York compressor that I couldn't sell on EBay for $20- so I'm going to use that. Otherwise I'd modify my mounting plate for a Sandin unit and run the newer freon. Getting the correct crankshaft pulley was a challenge-- I have one saved for my Hawk project, but for this Lark I had to bite the bullet and buy one of Lionel Stone's reproduction pulleys. Lionel's prices are high, but I know it costs him a lot to have those things made. And God bless him for making all this stuff for us.


Casey, do some internet searching. I think you can use the York with R134. The oil needs to be compatable, and the fittings will need to be changed. Flush the system, replace the dryer and have fun. By the way V/A has all the parts you'll need.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

John Kirchhoff
06-29-2007, 04:11 PM
Concerning the compressor oil, at one time they made oil that was compatible with both R12 and 134, but I haven't seen any lately. Whether you're switching over or installing a used compressor, that's a good time to change the oil anyway. The oil is pretty inexpensive and I doubt anyone would run 40 year old used oil in their engine and besides, it's no problem to change. Inside the York compressors are just like a little 2 cylinder engine with ball crank bearings and non-insert plain bearings on the rods. The ball bearings may tolerate aged or yucky oil but the aluminum rods won't. Be careful if you buy a compressor that's been used in dirty environments like ag or industrial. I had a York tractor compressor I took apart. The oil looked like dirty motor oil, had sediment on the bottom and the rod bearings were completely shot. The only thing I can figure is the previous owner kept running it after it developed a leak on the suction side, pulling in dirt.

Actually, most of the reduced cooling problems after switching to 134 is due to the evaporator being too small more so than the condenser, especially when in humid climates. Hot humid air will still remove heat from the condenser, but when moisture condenses on the cool evaporator, heat is released in the process. Like we learned in science class, turning a liquid into a vapor requires that heat be added and when turning back into a liquid, that same heat is released. I still have R12 and since some under dash units had barely adequate evaporators because of size limitations, in the Hawk I'll probably use R12. In the '51 I plan on using a big old Buick evaporator, so I don't think I'll have any problem with area on that big ugly thing.