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DWard
06-26-2007, 11:26 AM
Hello to all!
I have a 1957 Studebaker Hawk with a Champion 185 6 cylinder. I was told that cars with 6 cylinder engines were made with a thinner frame and body so the smaller engine would perform better. This did not make any sense to me. I would think that would be too costly for Studebaker to have done. Has anyone heard this before? And, does anyone know what gauge metal the body panels are----i.e.--fenders, hoods etc?? Regards----Dan

JDP
06-26-2007, 11:40 AM
From StudeBob in 1998 on the Studebaker news Group C-K frames were also thicker on V8"s (See second quote) :

"OK fellas......The "Experts" are not to be de-framed, er , ah defamed.
As I said I would, I took my MICs AND a metal guage gage along to the
wrecking yard. I don't feel too bad but I will admit that my
assumptions, based soley on the parts books, are wrong. There are
readily evident differences amongst the varios frames I checked.
(And, John, these are all central Calif. cars so most of the
frames are only surface-rusted. I had to be careful about the edges
being burred by production methods more than any erosion or rust-added
thickness. And too, I did only check the channel sectiion of the
frames and not the plate.)
So, here's my findings:
(Remember, the smaller the number, the THICKER the metal !)
59V-8 4door......13 gage

60V-8 4door.......13 gage
60Six 4door........14 gage
(2nd) 60Six 4door...15 gage ???

61V-8 4door.(not cruiser) ...14gage
61Six 4door.........15 gage

62V-8 4door (Y-8)...12 gage
62Six 2dr Sed.........15 gage

63V-8 4door (fleet car of some sort) ...11gage
63Six 4door (Y-4) ...12 gage

64V-8 2door Sed......13 gage

57Commander 4dr sed ...13 gage

NOw, there are more larks and a few more mid-fifties jobs there but
I could not get to a lot of them because these Studes sit in the
lowest spot in the yard and I had not brought along any boots!
I did not even look at any of the earlier stuff as the parts books
themselves tell that story.
In most cases I double-checked my findings with MICs and metal
guage. All confirmed one another. There are no 2dr hdtps or ragtops
there to compare or sliding roof wagons. I'm wondering if the same
logic prevailed when it came to these bodies. I mean, here they were,
adding a big, burly "X"-frame to ragrtops and sliders. Why wouldn't
they opt for the stiffest frames in those cases???
--
StudeBob
Studefarmer extrordinaire
and his all-Parrot pit pals"


Found this on C-K's

"I know that later on the C/K frames did differ for example:
On 1959 Silver Hawks, US-cars had 13 Gage (.0897") steel
(most of the 6-cylinders had 14 Gage (0747")) while
Canadian and Export cars all had 11 Gage (.1196").

Michael Bostedt


JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

DWard
06-26-2007, 01:10 PM
Thanks JDP----I'll take my mic's home tonight and check the channel section of my Hawk. It will be interesting to see what I get. I'll let you know---Thanks again---Dan

studegary
06-26-2007, 03:42 PM
There were many different frame thicknesses. Where some of the confusion comes in is with the parts books. The parts books list the same part number for six and V8 and for various years. The thing with parts books is that they are listing REPLACEMENT parts. It made more sense to stock one replacement part for the various thicknesses. Besides six and V8 differences, the C/K models had increases in the frame thicknesses at a few intervals during their production years of 1953-1964.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

Jeff_H
06-26-2007, 09:23 PM
In SB last week I had laying on the ground near my '53 Champion hardtop, some pcs of rusted metal cut off the car and replaced during the restoration. I brought them with for fun :D One of them was a section of frame sidewall cut out from under the back seat [:0] It was still laying in the back of my pickup so I went out just now with a calipers to check the thickness near the edges where it wasn't pitted (or had holes!). I got ~0.085" thick which seems to be consistant with some lightly rusted 13GA (0.089").


Jeff in ND
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/ee-engineer/53byalaketiny.jpg
'53 Champion Hardtop

DWard
06-27-2007, 08:36 AM
Thanks to all for your input. I will try to find time to check my Hawk tonight & post the result---at worst case the weekend.

Regards---Dan

StudeRich
07-03-2007, 03:43 AM
There is no truth to the rumor you heard about the bodies, they are all the same thickness.

The big deal with the frames is that 2dr. Sedans always had a lightweight frame. I have seen '65 Daytona Sport Sedans V8's that were ready to break in two at the front spring towers because of the 2dr. Sedan light (13 & 14ga.) frame, so bad you could see the movement when bouncing the front end! [xx(]

As others stated the thickness did vary from year to year. Some years 6 cyl. was the same as 8 cyl. The gauge is clearly called out on the frame dimension charts in the Shop manual. In 1962 & on they went to heavier 11 Ga. frames on certain models especially the GT Hawk, so '62-'64 Hawks have the best frame to use under '53-'58 K bodies, and could be modified for '53-'61 "C" bodies.


quote:Originally posted by DWard

Hello to all!
I have a 1957 Studebaker Hawk with a Champion 185 6 cylinder. I was told that cars with 6 cylinder engines were made with a thinner frame and body so the smaller engine would perform better.


StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

DWard
07-03-2007, 11:36 AM
Thanks to all!---Dan

starlightchamp
07-03-2007, 03:23 PM
Just for reference
SteelGage Thickness(inches) Weight in pounds/square foot

10 .1345 5.62
11 .1196 5.00
12 .1046 4.37
13 .0897 3.74
14 .0747 3.12
25% weight savngs between 11 and 13 gage car frames. Probably $$$$ also.