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Skip Lackie
06-24-2007, 08:14 AM
A couple of weeks ago, there were several threads that reported that a small fire at SASCO threatened the continued operation of their parts business. I spent some time during the Intl Meet trying to learn how we might best respond to this threat. JDP suggested that I post where things stand right now.

First, there was the small fire. Attendees at the Stude Truck Farmers tour on Tuesday can confirm that the damage was very slight. However, the fire made clear that the old Stude engineering building where the parts are now stored no longer meets current fire-suppression standards. As a result, Dennis Lambert of SASCO has had to employ contract guards to monitor the building for fire. This is not a long-term solution.

Some people have asserted that the city wants to clear all of the old buildings in the Studebaker Corridor so the area can be redeveloped. While there may be some truth in that, there are no plans to develop the land on which SASCO sits (the old Newman and Altman building had to be vacated so it could be demolished to make way for the new county jail), and there is plenty of vacant land available in the area. The old South Bend Lathe building next door to SASCO is scheduled for demolition within the next few weeks. While I would not agree that the SASCO building is an eyesore, it clearly is not modern and looks at least a little bit derelict. There are some leaks in the roof and broken windows, though none of that is visible from the street. It's also worth noting that vacant land in South Bend is not exactly in short supply, and the old Studebaker area south of the railroad tracks is not particularly desirable. It probably does not qualify as as EPA Superfund site, but the soil there is somewhat contaminated with industrial byproducts, which means it cannot be used for residential development, parks, playgrounds, etc. While the land would be suitable for a shopping center, office building, or industrial uses, there is plenty of property already available in more desirable areas.

The SASCO building is owned by the city, so it has an obligation to ensure that it is brought up to safety standards. SASCO will have to pay for whatever upgrades are necessary. That said, the city Fire Department has the authority to grant exceptions or approve compromise solutions, given that the building is not occupied except during normal working hours. (However, the safety of Fire Dept personnel remains a priority, even if the building is not otherwise occupied -- consider the FD deaths in Charleston last week.)

Dennis Lambert "owns" the parts, though most of the money came from the bank. While SASCO provides steady cash flow, most of the money goes to pay off the loan. There is not a lot left over for expensive upgrades to the building. Last week, Dennis was reviewing bids for upgrades to the sprinkler system and hoped to be able to make a choice that would not only be affordable, but would satisfy the SBFD. Nevertheless, this may only be the opening shot of a continuing battle over the safety of the SASCO building. Clearly, if the city wants to close SASCO down, they can find a way to do it.

The fire was electrical in origin, and was caused when a wire that was repaired improperly (probably decades ago) came in contact with a grounded box on the second floor. Dennis suspects that the vibration caused by the demolition of another old building next door was the underlying cause, though it really doesn't matter. SASCO is in an old building that has gone through a number of tenants since Studebaker moved out. Clearly there is plenty of wiring that doesn't meet the code. Dennis has de-energized all circuits except those lighting the first floor, but there's no way to tell whether there may be some problems lurking somewhere.

We need to recognize that there's no hope of moving the parts to more a hospitable venue. Until you have seen how much stuff is stored there, you cannot comprehend the magnitude of the effort it would take. It would require hundreds (maybe thousands) of tractor-trail

bams50
06-24-2007, 10:09 AM
Thanks for that well-written, and picture-clearing post, Skip. I now have a little better understanding of the situation thanks to this piece, combined with having made my first personal visit.

I only saw the main "store" area, and the upholstery/interior area way in the back... and left with my head spinning[:0] My overriding thought since then is this: What other marque ANYWHERE- let alone orphaned- has this magnitude of genuine, original, company-produced parts (hard AND soft!) still available 40+ years later? But that combined with reality- an area probably 100' long and 40' wide with MOUNTAINS of NOS seat covers and door panels, racks of rolls of piping, tons of other related items... sitting in a questionable building, musty, moldy, and totally disorganized- but most usable! And this is just one area; I was told there were many more, much larger areas, filled with parts being slowly damaged by leaking roofs, broken windows, bird do, and on and on... again, totally disorganized. Understand, this is in no way an indictment of Dennis or his staff; merely pointing out the size of the problem! Financially, it's not possible to save say, 3500 tie-rod adjusting sleeves, for example; but at the same time, if they're gone, where you gonna get 'em when you do need one? But then, how can a person or an entity possibly store, catalog, protect, and sell or ship these things- and wait till May 12 2034 when it may be needed? I spent the rest of my time in SB distracted by this issue; I am a Studebaker enthusiast (even more so after this week!), a businessman, and a thinker; and am saddedned that I have yet to even begin to formulate any type of viable solution in my mind[}:)]:([V]

Frankly, the idea of having the SNM involved- a non-profit entity- may be the start of a viable solution. A lot would depend upon the city's- and bank's- willingness to work along toward a solution to a huge problem; biggest hurdle being that it's really only huge to us, the enthusiasts! If you don't love Studebakers, it's easy to write off a loan as loss, or evict a tenant and demolish a structure; it's just business. But if the city has a higher-up that has any feeling for the cars, and therefore the parts, anything's possible! Of course, that remains to be seen...

I'll be watching... and listening...and thinking... this is an incredibly rare opportunity for worthwhile preservation of Stude parts! Time will tell what will happen; but writing the city, or protesting, or a grassroots effort by (realistically) a few dozen Stude people with work gloves and trucks are not going to be the answer... but I'm not 100% ready to concede that there's no solution;)

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-24-2007, 10:09 AM
Thanks for that well-written, and picture-clearing post, Skip. I now have a little better understanding of the situation thanks to this piece, combined with having made my first personal visit.

I only saw the main "store" area, and the upholstery/interior area way in the back... and left with my head spinning[:0] My overriding thought since then is this: What other marque ANYWHERE- let alone orphaned- has this magnitude of genuine, original, company-produced parts (hard AND soft!) still available 40+ years later? But that combined with reality- an area probably 100' long and 40' wide with MOUNTAINS of NOS seat covers and door panels, racks of rolls of piping, tons of other related items... sitting in a questionable building, musty, moldy, and totally disorganized- but most usable! And this is just one area; I was told there were many more, much larger areas, filled with parts being slowly damaged by leaking roofs, broken windows, bird do, and on and on... again, totally disorganized. Understand, this is in no way an indictment of Dennis or his staff; merely pointing out the size of the problem! Financially, it's not possible to save say, 3500 tie-rod adjusting sleeves, for example; but at the same time, if they're gone, where you gonna get 'em when you do need one? But then, how can a person or an entity possibly store, catalog, protect, and sell or ship these things- and wait till May 12 2034 when it may be needed? I spent the rest of my time in SB distracted by this issue; I am a Studebaker enthusiast (even more so after this week!), a businessman, and a thinker; and am saddedned that I have yet to even begin to formulate any type of viable solution in my mind[}:)]:([V]

Frankly, the idea of having the SNM involved- a non-profit entity- may be the start of a viable solution. A lot would depend upon the city's- and bank's- willingness to work along toward a solution to a huge problem; biggest hurdle being that it's really only huge to us, the enthusiasts! If you don't love Studebakers, it's easy to write off a loan as loss, or evict a tenant and demolish a structure; it's just business. But if the city has a higher-up that has any feeling for the cars, and therefore the parts, anything's possible! Of course, that remains to be seen...

I'll be watching... and listening...and thinking... this is an incredibly rare opportunity for worthwhile preservation of Stude parts! Time will tell what will happen; but writing the city, or protesting, or a grassroots effort by (realistically) a few dozen Stude people with work gloves and trucks are not going to be the answer... but I'm not 100% ready to concede that there's no solution;)

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Chris Pile
06-24-2007, 10:35 AM
Thanks, Skip!

Chris Pile
The Studebaker Special
Midway Chapter SDC

Chris Pile
06-24-2007, 10:35 AM
Thanks, Skip!

Chris Pile
The Studebaker Special
Midway Chapter SDC

wally
06-24-2007, 11:07 AM
My 2 cents. I have bought parts from that company since they were N & A, so I was concerned when I saw that their future was in jeopardy. If the building were demolished, the parts would have to be hauled somewhere to dispose of them , anyway. So, it is not as if evicting SASCo automatically solves that problem for the city. As far as the involvement of the Museum in taking over the inventory, it is definitely not unheard of for Marque clubs to sell parts to produce income. Another bit of leverage might be the prospect of having a SDC Convention in South Bend every year. It would not only bring in the income to businesses there, but raise awareness of a new genration of Locl residents about their communities' heritage--and gain their support. And finally, where are the community preservationists? Seems a building that is still in use and structurally sound and significant historically, would have plenty of support from them...

wally
06-24-2007, 11:07 AM
My 2 cents. I have bought parts from that company since they were N & A, so I was concerned when I saw that their future was in jeopardy. If the building were demolished, the parts would have to be hauled somewhere to dispose of them , anyway. So, it is not as if evicting SASCo automatically solves that problem for the city. As far as the involvement of the Museum in taking over the inventory, it is definitely not unheard of for Marque clubs to sell parts to produce income. Another bit of leverage might be the prospect of having a SDC Convention in South Bend every year. It would not only bring in the income to businesses there, but raise awareness of a new genration of Locl residents about their communities' heritage--and gain their support. And finally, where are the community preservationists? Seems a building that is still in use and structurally sound and significant historically, would have plenty of support from them...

bams50
06-24-2007, 11:24 AM
quote:Originally posted by wally

If the building were demolished, the parts would have to be hauled somewhere to dispose of them , anyway. So, it is not as if evicting SASCo automatically solves that problem for the city.

No, but the point is: if you're demolishing the building, or demolishing the building with thousands of NOS parts, there's no difference in effort; just in number of trips to the landfill. So to that extent, the city won't care about the inventory.

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-24-2007, 11:24 AM
quote:Originally posted by wally

If the building were demolished, the parts would have to be hauled somewhere to dispose of them , anyway. So, it is not as if evicting SASCo automatically solves that problem for the city.

No, but the point is: if you're demolishing the building, or demolishing the building with thousands of NOS parts, there's no difference in effort; just in number of trips to the landfill. So to that extent, the city won't care about the inventory.

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-24-2007, 11:27 AM
quote:Originally posted by wally

where are the community preservationists? Seems a building that is still in use and structurally sound and significant historically, would have plenty of support from them...


I could be wrong on this, but from what I've gathered the city in general sees these buildings as a problem and an eyesore; I'm betting the taxpayers wouldn't go for replacing massive roofs and huge upkeep/repair bills...

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-24-2007, 11:27 AM
quote:Originally posted by wally

where are the community preservationists? Seems a building that is still in use and structurally sound and significant historically, would have plenty of support from them...


I could be wrong on this, but from what I've gathered the city in general sees these buildings as a problem and an eyesore; I'm betting the taxpayers wouldn't go for replacing massive roofs and huge upkeep/repair bills...

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Chucks Stude
06-24-2007, 11:38 AM
I may be totally off base here, but maybe a rethink of SASCO's relationship to the Studebaker "Industry" might be in order. If Sasco could be restructured as just a supplier to the other vendors, with them being the retailer, and Sasco as the supplier, then we might have a better line of distribution of Sasco's inventory. Sasco could be the repository of NOS,and reproduction parts and the vendors could sell out of Sasco's inventory, without them being competitors, and than everyone would have a stake in Sasco's survival. If it could be done, Sasco's profits could be used to upgrade the system(building, inventory management, etc). I understand there is a lot of dead inventory but it is inventory, and would be safeguarded as any of the other inventory. This is just IMHO.

Chucks Stude
06-24-2007, 11:38 AM
I may be totally off base here, but maybe a rethink of SASCO's relationship to the Studebaker "Industry" might be in order. If Sasco could be restructured as just a supplier to the other vendors, with them being the retailer, and Sasco as the supplier, then we might have a better line of distribution of Sasco's inventory. Sasco could be the repository of NOS,and reproduction parts and the vendors could sell out of Sasco's inventory, without them being competitors, and than everyone would have a stake in Sasco's survival. If it could be done, Sasco's profits could be used to upgrade the system(building, inventory management, etc). I understand there is a lot of dead inventory but it is inventory, and would be safeguarded as any of the other inventory. This is just IMHO.

2R5
06-24-2007, 11:43 AM
Nice write up Skip....I too was at that dinner and was just amazed at the upstairs. We all hope that something good comes of all this and the parts stay intacked and together. I just shudder when I think of an auction and this would get all chopped up and prices would of coarse sky rocket out of site. I hope everyone at the meet bought at least something at SASCO , I know I sure did ....even bought a '64 grill for single headlites for a bargain $25....going to turn it into a double headlite grill since you can't buy those any more. My wife gave me hell for not buying 2 of them....go figure.....just love that girl <g> she always comes up with those good ideas ! Anyways I'm sure it will all come out OK...at least I'm hoping .

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/2R5/smallchamp.jpg HOME of THE FRIED GREEN TOMATO

1950 2R5
1960 Lark 2dr
1960 Champ
1964 Daytona HT

2R5
06-24-2007, 11:43 AM
Nice write up Skip....I too was at that dinner and was just amazed at the upstairs. We all hope that something good comes of all this and the parts stay intacked and together. I just shudder when I think of an auction and this would get all chopped up and prices would of coarse sky rocket out of site. I hope everyone at the meet bought at least something at SASCO , I know I sure did ....even bought a '64 grill for single headlites for a bargain $25....going to turn it into a double headlite grill since you can't buy those any more. My wife gave me hell for not buying 2 of them....go figure.....just love that girl <g> she always comes up with those good ideas ! Anyways I'm sure it will all come out OK...at least I'm hoping .

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/2R5/smallchamp.jpg HOME of THE FRIED GREEN TOMATO

1950 2R5
1960 Lark 2dr
1960 Champ
1964 Daytona HT

wally
06-24-2007, 11:45 AM
Bams50, you have raised some good points. But,Preservationists typically(and successfully) fight city hall and powerful developers to save classic buildings, just as WE save cars that most people would let go to the crusher. And, a fact is--taxpayers passively foot the bill for a lot of projects, worthy or not. For instance, Our Congressman(the pork barrel king) steered Federal Money to put an elevator in an old downtown building that relatively few people utilize, simply because it has cultural significance. The cost: about $500,000! But, People(taxpayers)just don't take to the streets, protesting about tax dollars being used to repair landmarks, these days. So, I see no reason why the engineering building should not have a new roof and be rewired, to save it. Not just for SAsCO, but for posterity. And, I see that Chuckstudes idea has merit, though I believe SAsco already sells wholesale to other vendors. Thanks.

wally
06-24-2007, 11:45 AM
Bams50, you have raised some good points. But,Preservationists typically(and successfully) fight city hall and powerful developers to save classic buildings, just as WE save cars that most people would let go to the crusher. And, a fact is--taxpayers passively foot the bill for a lot of projects, worthy or not. For instance, Our Congressman(the pork barrel king) steered Federal Money to put an elevator in an old downtown building that relatively few people utilize, simply because it has cultural significance. The cost: about $500,000! But, People(taxpayers)just don't take to the streets, protesting about tax dollars being used to repair landmarks, these days. So, I see no reason why the engineering building should not have a new roof and be rewired, to save it. Not just for SAsCO, but for posterity. And, I see that Chuckstudes idea has merit, though I believe SAsco already sells wholesale to other vendors. Thanks.

Scott
06-24-2007, 11:58 AM
The administration building was just sold recently. The price was about $10,000 I am told. Why can't Dennis make the same deal on the SASCO building? It should be worth about $10 to the city, the way they treat it.

He'd still have to deal with the fire issues, but at least he would OWN the building and that would give him the benefits of ownership rather than all the liability of being a tenant.

Maybe Danchuck could buy the stock and broaden out from all Chevy stuff!!

Scott
06-24-2007, 11:58 AM
The administration building was just sold recently. The price was about $10,000 I am told. Why can't Dennis make the same deal on the SASCO building? It should be worth about $10 to the city, the way they treat it.

He'd still have to deal with the fire issues, but at least he would OWN the building and that would give him the benefits of ownership rather than all the liability of being a tenant.

Maybe Danchuck could buy the stock and broaden out from all Chevy stuff!!

wally
06-24-2007, 12:10 PM
Actually, I like Scotts' solution. If SAsCO (or some other entity) were sold the building by the city for a very modest sum($1?), on the condition that they would update it and take care of safety and deferred maintainance issues(the roof, etc), it might be a fair deal for all. It would preserve the Building, the Parts Inventory, and the expense of demolition and clearing the site..

wally
06-24-2007, 12:10 PM
Actually, I like Scotts' solution. If SAsCO (or some other entity) were sold the building by the city for a very modest sum($1?), on the condition that they would update it and take care of safety and deferred maintainance issues(the roof, etc), it might be a fair deal for all. It would preserve the Building, the Parts Inventory, and the expense of demolition and clearing the site..

Skip Lackie
06-24-2007, 12:20 PM
Coupla responses to the above:
SASCO has continued to serve as factory parts depot, a practice originally established by [the original] SASCO, Avanti Parts Corp, and Newman & Altman. They sell wholesale to other vendors at (I believe) 40% off retail. These relationships may be reciprocal, but I suspect that SASCO sells a lot more to other vendors than they buy from them.

The SASCO building is not particularly significant architecturally, and I doubt that any preservationists will defend it. Don't forget, the city was willing to demolish the Stude Administration Building -- which really IS architecturally important.

I don't know if Dennis pays rent on the building or not, but if he does, it's pretty nominal. His big expense is for the loan on the parts inventory. So buying the building doesn't really provide enough money to resolve the safety issues.

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

Skip Lackie
06-24-2007, 12:20 PM
Coupla responses to the above:
SASCO has continued to serve as factory parts depot, a practice originally established by [the original] SASCO, Avanti Parts Corp, and Newman & Altman. They sell wholesale to other vendors at (I believe) 40% off retail. These relationships may be reciprocal, but I suspect that SASCO sells a lot more to other vendors than they buy from them.

The SASCO building is not particularly significant architecturally, and I doubt that any preservationists will defend it. Don't forget, the city was willing to demolish the Stude Administration Building -- which really IS architecturally important.

I don't know if Dennis pays rent on the building or not, but if he does, it's pretty nominal. His big expense is for the loan on the parts inventory. So buying the building doesn't really provide enough money to resolve the safety issues.

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

studelover
06-24-2007, 03:09 PM
Is it imperitive that SASCO stays in South bend. I know it is important to have Studebaker related companies in SB. I also see how much of a struggle it is to keep that business there, I always though that a building owner was responsible for the maintanance and up of their building. I know that has been covered however it maybe a time for change. I have watched the Studebaker parts situation over the last few years and see a couple of things that disturb me. There are very few people making new parts, some of the things I need for my car are not around, until sheet metal for some of the more interesting cars are manufactured these cars are not going to survive anyway.

I understand that tooling is expensive however someone back in 1966-64 should have saw that the future of this car make depends on sheet metal and motor parts. I have come accross hawks that need so much welding because fenders and quarters are not availible that they are hauled to the junk yard, good parts in tow. We talk about chevy and ford however there is someone making those parts, Dennis Carpenter,Danchuck and the like, The model A can be built from the ground with parts that are on the shelf, If we had more cars on the road they would need more parts.

The last thing I would like to say is if the commerce dept is interested in having more Studebaker conventions and Stude people there, they should do some things to help it sustain life, Giving the gentleman a break on the fire system is something a local business can do and that bank that holds the note, what are they doing to ease the pain, they all co-exsist in SB right. I would like to see the problem worked out however maybe the Studebaker world might need to be restructured. I hope they are not still holding a grudge on a promise that was not kept.

Studebakers forever!

studelover
06-24-2007, 03:09 PM
Is it imperitive that SASCO stays in South bend. I know it is important to have Studebaker related companies in SB. I also see how much of a struggle it is to keep that business there, I always though that a building owner was responsible for the maintanance and up of their building. I know that has been covered however it maybe a time for change. I have watched the Studebaker parts situation over the last few years and see a couple of things that disturb me. There are very few people making new parts, some of the things I need for my car are not around, until sheet metal for some of the more interesting cars are manufactured these cars are not going to survive anyway.

I understand that tooling is expensive however someone back in 1966-64 should have saw that the future of this car make depends on sheet metal and motor parts. I have come accross hawks that need so much welding because fenders and quarters are not availible that they are hauled to the junk yard, good parts in tow. We talk about chevy and ford however there is someone making those parts, Dennis Carpenter,Danchuck and the like, The model A can be built from the ground with parts that are on the shelf, If we had more cars on the road they would need more parts.

The last thing I would like to say is if the commerce dept is interested in having more Studebaker conventions and Stude people there, they should do some things to help it sustain life, Giving the gentleman a break on the fire system is something a local business can do and that bank that holds the note, what are they doing to ease the pain, they all co-exsist in SB right. I would like to see the problem worked out however maybe the Studebaker world might need to be restructured. I hope they are not still holding a grudge on a promise that was not kept.

Studebakers forever!

bob40
06-24-2007, 06:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by Scott

It should be worth about $10 to the city, the way they treat it.




8E45E signing in on Bob 40's computer.

When I went on my 'tour' of the old foundry on Friday morning, the son of the owner of Underground Pipe & Valve was offer that exact same amount for his facility!! Naturally, he turned it down!



Craig

bob40
06-24-2007, 06:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by Scott

It should be worth about $10 to the city, the way they treat it.




8E45E signing in on Bob 40's computer.

When I went on my 'tour' of the old foundry on Friday morning, the son of the owner of Underground Pipe & Valve was offer that exact same amount for his facility!! Naturally, he turned it down!



Craig

Guido
06-24-2007, 06:22 PM
quote: 8E45E signing in on Bob 40's computer.


Craig,

You can just log Bob out and then reenter your ID to post under your name. I did the same thing the other day in SB, I just started posting and when I was done discovered my comments were credited to Mr. Biggs. With B. Shaw away from his computer, I could have stirred up a mess. [}:)]:D

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctorís buggy; Studebaker horse drawn ďIzzerĒ buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
06-24-2007, 06:22 PM
quote: 8E45E signing in on Bob 40's computer.


Craig,

You can just log Bob out and then reenter your ID to post under your name. I did the same thing the other day in SB, I just started posting and when I was done discovered my comments were credited to Mr. Biggs. With B. Shaw away from his computer, I could have stirred up a mess. [}:)]:D

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctorís buggy; Studebaker horse drawn ďIzzerĒ buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

studeclunker
06-25-2007, 03:36 PM
There are many valuable and even viable suggestions in this thread. There are two problems that haven't been addressed though.

First: Dennis IS SASCO. He's the owner and operator of the business. Any solutions to this problem must be addressed by him.

Second: This is related to the first; the business doesn't seem to draw in enough income to provide a solution to the building's problems. While I am just as concerned as the rest of you, I'm also very much afraid that the museum isn't in the position to rescue SASCO.

The only solution to the SASCO's and the building's problems lie in the club itself bailing them out. The membership of this club certainly has the wherewithall to do the job. A joint effort between the club and the museum is what is needed to save this priceless inventory from loss and degradation. The only question remaining is; can we get the members of the Studebaker Driver's Club to do this?

Perhaps we need someone in the club hierarchy to send out a letter of inquiry to every member (yes, I am aware of the expense), perhaps in the next TW, as to the interest of this worthy project. This forum, though seemingly overwhelmingly in favour of saving SASCO, is representative of a very small sampling of the club. We need to hear from the rest of the members.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/december%2006/HPIM0234.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

studeclunker
06-25-2007, 03:36 PM
There are many valuable and even viable suggestions in this thread. There are two problems that haven't been addressed though.

First: Dennis IS SASCO. He's the owner and operator of the business. Any solutions to this problem must be addressed by him.

Second: This is related to the first; the business doesn't seem to draw in enough income to provide a solution to the building's problems. While I am just as concerned as the rest of you, I'm also very much afraid that the museum isn't in the position to rescue SASCO.

The only solution to the SASCO's and the building's problems lie in the club itself bailing them out. The membership of this club certainly has the wherewithall to do the job. A joint effort between the club and the museum is what is needed to save this priceless inventory from loss and degradation. The only question remaining is; can we get the members of the Studebaker Driver's Club to do this?

Perhaps we need someone in the club hierarchy to send out a letter of inquiry to every member (yes, I am aware of the expense), perhaps in the next TW, as to the interest of this worthy project. This forum, though seemingly overwhelmingly in favour of saving SASCO, is representative of a very small sampling of the club. We need to hear from the rest of the members.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/december%2006/HPIM0234.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

bams50
06-25-2007, 04:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by studeclunker

[font=Comic Sans MS][size=3]There are many valuable and even viable suggestions in this thread. There are two problems that haven't been addressed though.

First: Dennis IS SASCO. He's the owner and operator of the business. Any solutions to this problem must be addressed by him.



Ron, you missed this statement in Skip's original post:

Finally, (and very importantly) we need to stop thinking that SASCO is synonymous with the parts inventory. Dennis pointed out that he is just the current custodian of the parts, and could be run over by a bread truck tomorrow. We need to think about approaches that will ensure the continued existence of the parts inventory as it currently exists, where it currently exists. So he suggests that we stop talking about SASCO, and start talking about the destiny of the parts depot inventory.

I think that says it all.

As to your suggestion that the "membership has the werewithal" to do the job and the club and membership should work together on this: I say, great idea- but exactly how do you propose to do that? I think your suggestion is everybody's first idea; the problem is blending a few, or a few dozen, or a few hundred individual members into one united force- every one with a different opinion on how to proceed, different time/responsibility constraints, personalities, energy levels, financial abilities- an on and on! In a perfect world, the entire membership would figure out a budget with a total dollar figure (purchase, debt satisfaction, new facility, moving cost, setup, etc.), divide that by all members, and each just write a check for their share... but obviously, there's no way to do that, for countless reasons. Mike thinks that a single person would be able to purchase and take this thing on, and I just can't see how- not from a business standpoint anyway! The only solutions I see in my mind thus far involve lots of members becoming benefactors (read: big check writing). I've heard plenty about how cheap Studebaker people are; if that's true, then that plan isn't viable! So now what?

There's got to be a solution to this; no one's proffered it yet, but I believe it's out there, and will surface. Let's keep thinking, and discussing, keeping our focus on real, workable solutions- free of egos, and including step-by-step moves leading to the goal! Meanwhile, I stand ready to do whatever I can- like most of us here!:D

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-25-2007, 04:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by studeclunker

[font=Comic Sans MS][size=3]There are many valuable and even viable suggestions in this thread. There are two problems that haven't been addressed though.

First: Dennis IS SASCO. He's the owner and operator of the business. Any solutions to this problem must be addressed by him.



Ron, you missed this statement in Skip's original post:

Finally, (and very importantly) we need to stop thinking that SASCO is synonymous with the parts inventory. Dennis pointed out that he is just the current custodian of the parts, and could be run over by a bread truck tomorrow. We need to think about approaches that will ensure the continued existence of the parts inventory as it currently exists, where it currently exists. So he suggests that we stop talking about SASCO, and start talking about the destiny of the parts depot inventory.

I think that says it all.

As to your suggestion that the "membership has the werewithal" to do the job and the club and membership should work together on this: I say, great idea- but exactly how do you propose to do that? I think your suggestion is everybody's first idea; the problem is blending a few, or a few dozen, or a few hundred individual members into one united force- every one with a different opinion on how to proceed, different time/responsibility constraints, personalities, energy levels, financial abilities- an on and on! In a perfect world, the entire membership would figure out a budget with a total dollar figure (purchase, debt satisfaction, new facility, moving cost, setup, etc.), divide that by all members, and each just write a check for their share... but obviously, there's no way to do that, for countless reasons. Mike thinks that a single person would be able to purchase and take this thing on, and I just can't see how- not from a business standpoint anyway! The only solutions I see in my mind thus far involve lots of members becoming benefactors (read: big check writing). I've heard plenty about how cheap Studebaker people are; if that's true, then that plan isn't viable! So now what?

There's got to be a solution to this; no one's proffered it yet, but I believe it's out there, and will surface. Let's keep thinking, and discussing, keeping our focus on real, workable solutions- free of egos, and including step-by-step moves leading to the goal! Meanwhile, I stand ready to do whatever I can- like most of us here!:D

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Chucks Stude
06-25-2007, 05:11 PM
IMHO,
Keeping SASCO viable is a given. It would seem to me that this situation needs to be attacked on multiple fronts.
1. The transfer cost to other vendors should go from a 40% discount, to a 30% discount.
2. The retail or final selling price should be looked at, to accurately reflect the fact that this is a collector business, not a commodity business. I have heard from some on this forum that the price from some suppliers is too high. SASCO needs to be competitive, it should not be the low price leader. I have also been told(in a nice way) that I should get over the pricing that is on EBAY, for that is the market talking. We are all going to have to help with saving SASCO, the market would dictate that it be done on the price of the parts, not a baleout. It would seem that the price of these parts should be escalating, as there is more invested in them. There is the cost of storage, the interest on the debt, the irreplacability of so much of this stuff and inflation.
3. Redo the cost of the inventory, with the idea of restructuring the debt of SASCO. I do not know if this has been done, but it would seem to me that the parts that are left are of more value as time goes by, not less.
4. Stretch out the payout on the debt of SASCO, with maybe the local chapters as co-signers.... just a thought.
These are just some of the things that I would do to get this thing turned around. It is certainly not everthing, but it is all that I can think of at this minute.

Chucks Stude
06-25-2007, 05:11 PM
IMHO,
Keeping SASCO viable is a given. It would seem to me that this situation needs to be attacked on multiple fronts.
1. The transfer cost to other vendors should go from a 40% discount, to a 30% discount.
2. The retail or final selling price should be looked at, to accurately reflect the fact that this is a collector business, not a commodity business. I have heard from some on this forum that the price from some suppliers is too high. SASCO needs to be competitive, it should not be the low price leader. I have also been told(in a nice way) that I should get over the pricing that is on EBAY, for that is the market talking. We are all going to have to help with saving SASCO, the market would dictate that it be done on the price of the parts, not a baleout. It would seem that the price of these parts should be escalating, as there is more invested in them. There is the cost of storage, the interest on the debt, the irreplacability of so much of this stuff and inflation.
3. Redo the cost of the inventory, with the idea of restructuring the debt of SASCO. I do not know if this has been done, but it would seem to me that the parts that are left are of more value as time goes by, not less.
4. Stretch out the payout on the debt of SASCO, with maybe the local chapters as co-signers.... just a thought.
These are just some of the things that I would do to get this thing turned around. It is certainly not everthing, but it is all that I can think of at this minute.

JDP
06-25-2007, 05:37 PM
As a SASCO dealer that has been getting the discount since the 70's, the 40% discount only applies to a portion of the inventory, just the old Studebaker inventory and not all of that. Any reproduction or rare parts are 25% or net. If he reduced the discount to 25% that would make it unprofitable for many of them to operate. Vendors that spent a few thousand dollars a year are cheaper to service then the guys that spend a few dollars at a time. A across the board price increase might well work since I agree many parts are too cheap. i.e. $100 for a fender or hood is just silly compared to brand X prices, especially when you are the sole provider of the parts. Over the years I've bought new stuff simply because it was so cheap it was not worth knocking out a fender dent for example.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
06-25-2007, 05:37 PM
As a SASCO dealer that has been getting the discount since the 70's, the 40% discount only applies to a portion of the inventory, just the old Studebaker inventory and not all of that. Any reproduction or rare parts are 25% or net. If he reduced the discount to 25% that would make it unprofitable for many of them to operate. Vendors that spent a few thousand dollars a year are cheaper to service then the guys that spend a few dollars at a time. A across the board price increase might well work since I agree many parts are too cheap. i.e. $100 for a fender or hood is just silly compared to brand X prices, especially when you are the sole provider of the parts. Over the years I've bought new stuff simply because it was so cheap it was not worth knocking out a fender dent for example.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

bams50
06-25-2007, 06:10 PM
Seems to me the market sets the price; and if you go too high, the stuff simply won't sell! Meantime, the debt has to be serviced on 2000 fenders...

Again, part of the problem is the SIZE of the inventory! At some point, someone will need all 875 Lark doors; but when- 10, 30, 50 years? In the meantime, there's principal and interest, building, wages, bookkeeping, etc. going on. The only solution is to keep the inventory moving out, and money coming in- hence lower prices! In normal business, it's pretty simple: If your product doesn't bring enough money in the marketplace, you either a. find a product at a cheaper initial cost, or one more salable (popular); b. promote your product to a wider market; or c. close up shop. This case is unique in that there's no other comparable product to add into the business, and there is a finite supply of the product; and there's not really much potential for market expansion. Which leaves...

Which brings us back to the overall goal- save the inventory from disposal for future use! In the 2 or 3 years or so I've been seriously interested in Studes I have many times heard comments to the effect of, "Yeah, this car has a damaged _____, but no need to fix it- SASCO has new ones for only $____!" And this for parts that have a definite supply end... A few- Biggs comes to mind- have sounded the warning about wasting usable stuff that'll be important when SASCO runs out- or the stuff is trashed! Some have said a lot of the stuff isn't worth saving- maybe from a dollars and cents perspective that's correct, but in every other sense it is not!! For the life of me I can not fathom having to throw away complete truck rear axles b/c they're not worth saving[:0] They are absolutely worth saving- all of them! The question is how to make it feasible...

So to my way of thinking, raising prices won't work, b/c the parts will sell slower (or not at all) causing the demise of SASCO; and the current situation needs a sizable, regular increase in incoming cash, with a product line that won't support it....

A Catch 22 if I've ever seen one...

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-25-2007, 06:10 PM
Seems to me the market sets the price; and if you go too high, the stuff simply won't sell! Meantime, the debt has to be serviced on 2000 fenders...

Again, part of the problem is the SIZE of the inventory! At some point, someone will need all 875 Lark doors; but when- 10, 30, 50 years? In the meantime, there's principal and interest, building, wages, bookkeeping, etc. going on. The only solution is to keep the inventory moving out, and money coming in- hence lower prices! In normal business, it's pretty simple: If your product doesn't bring enough money in the marketplace, you either a. find a product at a cheaper initial cost, or one more salable (popular); b. promote your product to a wider market; or c. close up shop. This case is unique in that there's no other comparable product to add into the business, and there is a finite supply of the product; and there's not really much potential for market expansion. Which leaves...

Which brings us back to the overall goal- save the inventory from disposal for future use! In the 2 or 3 years or so I've been seriously interested in Studes I have many times heard comments to the effect of, "Yeah, this car has a damaged _____, but no need to fix it- SASCO has new ones for only $____!" And this for parts that have a definite supply end... A few- Biggs comes to mind- have sounded the warning about wasting usable stuff that'll be important when SASCO runs out- or the stuff is trashed! Some have said a lot of the stuff isn't worth saving- maybe from a dollars and cents perspective that's correct, but in every other sense it is not!! For the life of me I can not fathom having to throw away complete truck rear axles b/c they're not worth saving[:0] They are absolutely worth saving- all of them! The question is how to make it feasible...

So to my way of thinking, raising prices won't work, b/c the parts will sell slower (or not at all) causing the demise of SASCO; and the current situation needs a sizable, regular increase in incoming cash, with a product line that won't support it....

A Catch 22 if I've ever seen one...

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bradnree
06-25-2007, 09:02 PM
This is a private business, and I'm sure the owners and all concerned will work this one out and move on, as we should........Brad

bradnree
06-25-2007, 09:02 PM
This is a private business, and I'm sure the owners and all concerned will work this one out and move on, as we should........Brad

bams50
06-25-2007, 09:12 PM
quote:Originally posted by bradnree

This is a private business, and I'm sure the owners and all concerned will work this one out and move on, as we should........Brad


Huh? Must be you haven't been following the situation[:I]

Dennis is not only concerned for his financial well-being, he cares about the inventory's future as well; the idea is to extricate himself, with an eye toward preservation of the parts at the same time; which is where we- and these threads- and those concerned with both- come in!

If you don't care or want to try to be part of the solution, that's absolutely your right. I'm truly concerned about the whole thing, especially after having been there and seen it in person last week.

But that certainly doesn't mean others have to care.

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-25-2007, 09:12 PM
quote:Originally posted by bradnree

This is a private business, and I'm sure the owners and all concerned will work this one out and move on, as we should........Brad


Huh? Must be you haven't been following the situation[:I]

Dennis is not only concerned for his financial well-being, he cares about the inventory's future as well; the idea is to extricate himself, with an eye toward preservation of the parts at the same time; which is where we- and these threads- and those concerned with both- come in!

If you don't care or want to try to be part of the solution, that's absolutely your right. I'm truly concerned about the whole thing, especially after having been there and seen it in person last week.

But that certainly doesn't mean others have to care.

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

M5Chris
06-25-2007, 09:22 PM
well... I know a LOT of folks aren't gonna want to hear this... but I have to point out both sides of the coin here... I kinda read the whole thread,.. and I'll just lump some ideas and thought about many of the various post here all together.
First someone wrote:

quote:I may be totally off base here, but maybe a rethink of SASCO's relationship to the Studebaker "Industry" might be in order. If Sasco could be restructured as just a supplier to the other vendors, with them being the retailer, and Sasco as the supplier, then we might have a better line of distribution of Sasco's inventory. Sasco could be the repository of NOS,and reproduction parts and the vendors could sell out of Sasco's inventory, without them being competitors, and than everyone would have a stake in Sasco's survival. If it could be done, Sasco's profits could be used to upgrade the system(building, inventory management, etc). I understand there is a lot of dead inventory but it is inventory, and would be safeguarded as any of the other inventory. This is just IMHO.

Not a bad idea... but the problem I see is that for this "redistribution" of parts to take place it would invlove many parts places, distributers, etc buys large quantities of parts they current have no orders for,.. probably NO where to store, and it could be MANY years before many years before the parts are eventually sold. The businesses money is tied up, so is storage space, etc.. and thats just a poor way for each individual way to do busines..

The next topic was this:

quote:The administration building was just sold recently. The price was about $10,000 I am told. Why can't Dennis make the same deal on the SASCO building? It should be worth about $10 to the city, the way they treat it.
He'd still have to deal with the fire issues, but at least he would OWN the building and that would give him the benefits of ownership rather than all the liability of being a tenant

We have to remember the city ALREADY owns the building and the land it sits own. From MHO the "inventory" could be collateral on the loan. That means the city already owns the building, land, and inventory (but lets just say Dennis does own the inventory)
WHY would the city simply give the land away at such a reduced rate. We all have to be on the (logical) assumption the city REALLY wants the land and could care less about the building. They just build a real nice jail and police station right across the street from SASCO. Have to figure some other government building is in the works that hasn't been released yet. SO why just "give" away the land they are trying to "force" Dennis out of in the first place.

I'm love my studebaker, even though it's not finished or drivable yet. I was at the SASCO diner and was amazed at the VAST amount of inventory Dennis has. We just walked down a single walkway, and I could spot TON of different items,.. not to mention the HUGE amount of items that we couldn't see that were WAY out of sight at the end of the very long rows of parts.
"Brand New" seats, door panels, material, anything for interiors, new chrome for headlights, grills, springs both front and rear,.. I mean you'd have to list every car part to list everything he had on hand.
When Skip says it would be a HUGE undertaking to start to move everything, thats not a small statement. Two floors worth of stuff to boot.
As much as anyone I'd love to see Dennis stay in business. IMO I think having some way to tie it in with the SNM is a pretty decent idea. It'd be a big deal getting everything moved, inventoried, and stored where it could be found when someone wanted a part. But It would go hand in hand with the Museum, and cou

M5Chris
06-25-2007, 09:22 PM
well... I know a LOT of folks aren't gonna want to hear this... but I have to point out both sides of the coin here... I kinda read the whole thread,.. and I'll just lump some ideas and thought about many of the various post here all together.
First someone wrote:

quote:I may be totally off base here, but maybe a rethink of SASCO's relationship to the Studebaker "Industry" might be in order. If Sasco could be restructured as just a supplier to the other vendors, with them being the retailer, and Sasco as the supplier, then we might have a better line of distribution of Sasco's inventory. Sasco could be the repository of NOS,and reproduction parts and the vendors could sell out of Sasco's inventory, without them being competitors, and than everyone would have a stake in Sasco's survival. If it could be done, Sasco's profits could be used to upgrade the system(building, inventory management, etc). I understand there is a lot of dead inventory but it is inventory, and would be safeguarded as any of the other inventory. This is just IMHO.

Not a bad idea... but the problem I see is that for this "redistribution" of parts to take place it would invlove many parts places, distributers, etc buys large quantities of parts they current have no orders for,.. probably NO where to store, and it could be MANY years before many years before the parts are eventually sold. The businesses money is tied up, so is storage space, etc.. and thats just a poor way for each individual way to do busines..

The next topic was this:

quote:The administration building was just sold recently. The price was about $10,000 I am told. Why can't Dennis make the same deal on the SASCO building? It should be worth about $10 to the city, the way they treat it.
He'd still have to deal with the fire issues, but at least he would OWN the building and that would give him the benefits of ownership rather than all the liability of being a tenant

We have to remember the city ALREADY owns the building and the land it sits own. From MHO the "inventory" could be collateral on the loan. That means the city already owns the building, land, and inventory (but lets just say Dennis does own the inventory)
WHY would the city simply give the land away at such a reduced rate. We all have to be on the (logical) assumption the city REALLY wants the land and could care less about the building. They just build a real nice jail and police station right across the street from SASCO. Have to figure some other government building is in the works that hasn't been released yet. SO why just "give" away the land they are trying to "force" Dennis out of in the first place.

I'm love my studebaker, even though it's not finished or drivable yet. I was at the SASCO diner and was amazed at the VAST amount of inventory Dennis has. We just walked down a single walkway, and I could spot TON of different items,.. not to mention the HUGE amount of items that we couldn't see that were WAY out of sight at the end of the very long rows of parts.
"Brand New" seats, door panels, material, anything for interiors, new chrome for headlights, grills, springs both front and rear,.. I mean you'd have to list every car part to list everything he had on hand.
When Skip says it would be a HUGE undertaking to start to move everything, thats not a small statement. Two floors worth of stuff to boot.
As much as anyone I'd love to see Dennis stay in business. IMO I think having some way to tie it in with the SNM is a pretty decent idea. It'd be a big deal getting everything moved, inventoried, and stored where it could be found when someone wanted a part. But It would go hand in hand with the Museum, and cou

Randy_G
06-25-2007, 09:23 PM
Great thing about this forum is this. If a topic does not interest you, you simply choose not to read it. I hope a solution is found, all I can do is purchase a few parts now and then from SASCO which I know isn't going to save them, but it might keep the lights on a bit longer.

Randy_G
1959 Lark Sedan
www.AutomotiveHistoryOnline.com
http://www.automotivehistoryonline.com/sedan4small.jpg

Randy_G
06-25-2007, 09:23 PM
Great thing about this forum is this. If a topic does not interest you, you simply choose not to read it. I hope a solution is found, all I can do is purchase a few parts now and then from SASCO which I know isn't going to save them, but it might keep the lights on a bit longer.

Randy_G
1959 Lark Sedan
www.AutomotiveHistoryOnline.com
http://www.automotivehistoryonline.com/sedan4small.jpg

M5Chris
06-25-2007, 09:28 PM
Yeah...
I left about $300 there...
Would of left a WHOLE LOT more,.. but as I guess some of you M5 owners have found out... not many M5 parts floating around.... (anywhere)

M5Chris
06-25-2007, 09:28 PM
Yeah...
I left about $300 there...
Would of left a WHOLE LOT more,.. but as I guess some of you M5 owners have found out... not many M5 parts floating around.... (anywhere)

HookedonStudies
06-25-2007, 10:32 PM
Here's my 2 cents worth:
Dennis sells SASCO (inventory and debt) to the SDC, the SDC renegotiates with the bank(s), hires Dennis to run the business (with various incentives TBD), and (SDC) offers shares of common stock to its membership while retaining controlling interest, sets up a board of directors structure to oversee the venture - separate but reporting to the SDC board of directors. SDC volunteers and shareholders can assist in cataloging (and computerizing) inventory, and monthly reports can be made in TW. Numerous members of the forum would be qualified and interested no doubt.

55 Commander
58 Transtar
62 GT Hawk
66 Cruiser

HookedonStudies
06-25-2007, 10:32 PM
Here's my 2 cents worth:
Dennis sells SASCO (inventory and debt) to the SDC, the SDC renegotiates with the bank(s), hires Dennis to run the business (with various incentives TBD), and (SDC) offers shares of common stock to its membership while retaining controlling interest, sets up a board of directors structure to oversee the venture - separate but reporting to the SDC board of directors. SDC volunteers and shareholders can assist in cataloging (and computerizing) inventory, and monthly reports can be made in TW. Numerous members of the forum would be qualified and interested no doubt.

55 Commander
58 Transtar
62 GT Hawk
66 Cruiser

A1956GoldenHawk
06-25-2007, 10:52 PM
quote:
If you don't care or want to try to be part of the solution, that's absolutely your right. I'm truly concerned about the whole thing, especially after having been there and seen it in person last week.

But that certainly doesn't mean others have to care.

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1


I feel your pain;), BUT ...the only viable solution to the current situation lays in the cause of it ...MONEY[}:)] & LOCAL POLITICS [}:)] and more LOCAL POLITICS:D & more MONEY:D!

A1956GoldenHawk
06-25-2007, 10:52 PM
quote:
If you don't care or want to try to be part of the solution, that's absolutely your right. I'm truly concerned about the whole thing, especially after having been there and seen it in person last week.

But that certainly doesn't mean others have to care.

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1


I feel your pain;), BUT ...the only viable solution to the current situation lays in the cause of it ...MONEY[}:)] & LOCAL POLITICS [}:)] and more LOCAL POLITICS:D & more MONEY:D!

A1956GoldenHawk
06-26-2007, 01:34 AM
quote:Originally posted by hotwheels63r2

I dont mean to knock anyone here, but there is way more going on than the SDC fairy can fix. SDC and the museum are pretty tapped out right now. The question is: how much money? whats there? and should it get split it up?
MIKE


MIKE, it would help greatly to go back and understand the root cause of the problem before throwing in the towel:D!!! The whole reason there is a concerned about the fate of the remaining Studebaker parts inventory is because of LOCAL POLITICS & MONEY! MIKE, here it is for you...plain & simple: The current South Bend Mayor and his cronies forced Newman & Altman out of business at their site. Search the "South Bend Tribune" for all the facts if you don't believe it. By the way, the Mayor of South Bend is up for re-election in November ....hmmmm;)

MIKE to be fair, why not ask BOTH the current Mayor and his challenger in the November 6th South Bend mayoral election what their plans are to "insure the future of a Studebaker parts business in South Bend." Sounds like we'd all be very interested in knowing what they promise. Here are links to contact them:

http://www.southbendin.gov/city/mayor/contact_the_mayor.asp

http://www.votemanigault.com/

A1956GoldenHawk
06-26-2007, 01:34 AM
quote:Originally posted by hotwheels63r2

I dont mean to knock anyone here, but there is way more going on than the SDC fairy can fix. SDC and the museum are pretty tapped out right now. The question is: how much money? whats there? and should it get split it up?
MIKE


MIKE, it would help greatly to go back and understand the root cause of the problem before throwing in the towel:D!!! The whole reason there is a concerned about the fate of the remaining Studebaker parts inventory is because of LOCAL POLITICS & MONEY! MIKE, here it is for you...plain & simple: The current South Bend Mayor and his cronies forced Newman & Altman out of business at their site. Search the "South Bend Tribune" for all the facts if you don't believe it. By the way, the Mayor of South Bend is up for re-election in November ....hmmmm;)

MIKE to be fair, why not ask BOTH the current Mayor and his challenger in the November 6th South Bend mayoral election what their plans are to "insure the future of a Studebaker parts business in South Bend." Sounds like we'd all be very interested in knowing what they promise. Here are links to contact them:

http://www.southbendin.gov/city/mayor/contact_the_mayor.asp

http://www.votemanigault.com/

bams50
06-26-2007, 04:47 AM
Mike, your points are valid. Maybe the museum-involvement idea will develop into a viable solution; maybe it won't.

The purpose of this thread, as I see it, is to look at different ideas; sort of an online brainstorming session!

You're not "knocking" anyone- at this point this is just an idea exercise- where we can throw out ideas and weigh the pros and cons of each; and possibly develop something the players in this situation can actually use;)

At least that's my take....

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-26-2007, 04:47 AM
Mike, your points are valid. Maybe the museum-involvement idea will develop into a viable solution; maybe it won't.

The purpose of this thread, as I see it, is to look at different ideas; sort of an online brainstorming session!

You're not "knocking" anyone- at this point this is just an idea exercise- where we can throw out ideas and weigh the pros and cons of each; and possibly develop something the players in this situation can actually use;)

At least that's my take....

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

avantilover
06-26-2007, 06:15 AM
Personally, I'd be prepared to offer $US100 to help but it sounds like someone needs to do a complete inventory of their stock (if it hasn't already been done) and advertise the parts in Turning Wheels. It'd also be good if the inventory could be sent to the International Studebaker Clubs (DVD?)as many of us have no other supply of parts than the US and as JDP and others have said there is not (at least for now) the demand for Studebaker parts like there is for Ford and Chevrolet parts (to name just two) to justify the cost of their reproduction, so once what is there is gone it's gone.
If we had the inventory perhaps Studebaker vendors here (Australia) could purchase container loads of parts as there is a good trade in the importation of cars. I was told of a "Bill Oliver" in California who does this and his vehicles are in good condition.

Another idea is to clarify the terms of the loan i.e. $600,000 and $10,000 a month repayment so that it may be renegotiated or else some of the other vendors or Studebaker lovers could assist with the monthly payments.

It also seems that the concept of moving the parts has been dismissed out of hand - I can imagine a huge volume of stuff, but surely the US Collector Car Hobby and Industry could assist - must be plenty of folks with trucking contacts who could get the stuff moved - after all consider the amount of money made by those who supply rubber components, and paint let alone the restoration shops and auction houses who do a good business from selling the completed product - I know that Studebaker is a minority of the Collector Car field, but I can't believe the hobby in general would be willing to let such a priceless supply of parts be lost - can you imagine if SASCO was the main source of Ford or Chevy parts and the parts were lost???

It's up to you in the US to do it, I feel sure that Aussie clubs would be willing to assist - just give us some details of what we could do and I can ask our club and then the National Studebaker club if they'd be willing to assist?


John Clements
Avantilover, your South Australian Studebaker lover!!!
Lockleys South Australia

avantilover
06-26-2007, 06:15 AM
Personally, I'd be prepared to offer $US100 to help but it sounds like someone needs to do a complete inventory of their stock (if it hasn't already been done) and advertise the parts in Turning Wheels. It'd also be good if the inventory could be sent to the International Studebaker Clubs (DVD?)as many of us have no other supply of parts than the US and as JDP and others have said there is not (at least for now) the demand for Studebaker parts like there is for Ford and Chevrolet parts (to name just two) to justify the cost of their reproduction, so once what is there is gone it's gone.
If we had the inventory perhaps Studebaker vendors here (Australia) could purchase container loads of parts as there is a good trade in the importation of cars. I was told of a "Bill Oliver" in California who does this and his vehicles are in good condition.

Another idea is to clarify the terms of the loan i.e. $600,000 and $10,000 a month repayment so that it may be renegotiated or else some of the other vendors or Studebaker lovers could assist with the monthly payments.

It also seems that the concept of moving the parts has been dismissed out of hand - I can imagine a huge volume of stuff, but surely the US Collector Car Hobby and Industry could assist - must be plenty of folks with trucking contacts who could get the stuff moved - after all consider the amount of money made by those who supply rubber components, and paint let alone the restoration shops and auction houses who do a good business from selling the completed product - I know that Studebaker is a minority of the Collector Car field, but I can't believe the hobby in general would be willing to let such a priceless supply of parts be lost - can you imagine if SASCO was the main source of Ford or Chevy parts and the parts were lost???

It's up to you in the US to do it, I feel sure that Aussie clubs would be willing to assist - just give us some details of what we could do and I can ask our club and then the National Studebaker club if they'd be willing to assist?


John Clements
Avantilover, your South Australian Studebaker lover!!!
Lockleys South Australia

Chucks Stude
06-26-2007, 07:05 AM
I hate to point out the obvious, but to complain about SI, is part of the problem. SI is a viable concern. Stephen Allen is a viable concern, etc, etc,...... SASCO needs to be a viable concern. IMHO, they should not be operating at the whim of the mayor, or anyone else. SASCO may need a baleout, or a moveout, but if we don't address this, and make them a stand on their own concern, than we will be having this discussion again, and again, and again............

Chucks Stude
06-26-2007, 07:05 AM
I hate to point out the obvious, but to complain about SI, is part of the problem. SI is a viable concern. Stephen Allen is a viable concern, etc, etc,...... SASCO needs to be a viable concern. IMHO, they should not be operating at the whim of the mayor, or anyone else. SASCO may need a baleout, or a moveout, but if we don't address this, and make them a stand on their own concern, than we will be having this discussion again, and again, and again............

DEEPNHOCK
06-26-2007, 07:34 AM
This is about like watching pidgeon's peck at seeds next to a field of corn.....

South Bend doesn't want SASCO in that building.
South Bend doesn't want that building at all.
South Bend didn't want the administration building either.
(See how long it took for them to sell it?)
The city would be happy if it was all gone tomorrow.
No, noon today is more like it.
And the mayor will probably get more votes supporting the razing of that building than he would saving that building.

SASCO as a business venture will survive only as long as the current owner can pull some money out of it.
That is the right of a business owner.
When there is no money to be taken out
(that is...after the banker, insurer, lawyer, tax man, power company, etc...get their cut...)
The owner will probably just sell what's left and walk away.
Will it get 'cherry picked'?
Sure will.
It's only getting 'cherry picked' right now.
Heck, for that matter, it has always only been 'cherry picked'.
What amazes me is the fervor from people about the value of parts they are never, ever going to buy.
Just the thought of the parts not being there sends people into a tizzy.
Tis' an amazing thing to observe....again and again.
Soon, there won't be an again... Just a 'used to be'..
Jeff[8D]

DEEPNHOCK
06-26-2007, 07:34 AM
This is about like watching pidgeon's peck at seeds next to a field of corn.....

South Bend doesn't want SASCO in that building.
South Bend doesn't want that building at all.
South Bend didn't want the administration building either.
(See how long it took for them to sell it?)
The city would be happy if it was all gone tomorrow.
No, noon today is more like it.
And the mayor will probably get more votes supporting the razing of that building than he would saving that building.

SASCO as a business venture will survive only as long as the current owner can pull some money out of it.
That is the right of a business owner.
When there is no money to be taken out
(that is...after the banker, insurer, lawyer, tax man, power company, etc...get their cut...)
The owner will probably just sell what's left and walk away.
Will it get 'cherry picked'?
Sure will.
It's only getting 'cherry picked' right now.
Heck, for that matter, it has always only been 'cherry picked'.
What amazes me is the fervor from people about the value of parts they are never, ever going to buy.
Just the thought of the parts not being there sends people into a tizzy.
Tis' an amazing thing to observe....again and again.
Soon, there won't be an again... Just a 'used to be'..
Jeff[8D]

Commander51
06-26-2007, 07:39 AM
I've never done business with SASCO; (car's too old and I can't navigate their website) but I would be willing to contribute time (inventorying the stuff in the building) and money (as a 'shareholder') to help keep the parts inventory viable. From what I read, there's probably a significant portion of SASCO's inventory which will never get sold, at least not in an economically viable time frame. That makes the net present value of that stuff zero, and it should be part of a monster auction or landfilled[V]. I also read that this has happened in the past when the business changed hands.

SDC has the member base and the financial capacity to structure some deal with the current creditors. A for-profit subsidiary could be an answer for constituting the company. This subsidiary could sell non-transferrable,'non-voting' "shares" which would not pay dividends but would entitle the owner to some discount on parts, depending on the number of shares held.

As is ALWAYS the case with this hobby, storage space is the big hang-up. There's no particular reason why the inventory need be under the same roof, or in SB for that matter (though the banks would prefer it be where they can conveniently inspect it) but a modern warehousing facility would enable the stuff to be organized so it actually could be sold....So if SDC gets involved in a restructuring, I say move, if for no other reason than to get out from under the local politics...

http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g178/gmail98/th_51CommanderState.jpg
51 Commander State Sedan
Butler PA

Commander51
06-26-2007, 07:39 AM
I've never done business with SASCO; (car's too old and I can't navigate their website) but I would be willing to contribute time (inventorying the stuff in the building) and money (as a 'shareholder') to help keep the parts inventory viable. From what I read, there's probably a significant portion of SASCO's inventory which will never get sold, at least not in an economically viable time frame. That makes the net present value of that stuff zero, and it should be part of a monster auction or landfilled[V]. I also read that this has happened in the past when the business changed hands.

SDC has the member base and the financial capacity to structure some deal with the current creditors. A for-profit subsidiary could be an answer for constituting the company. This subsidiary could sell non-transferrable,'non-voting' "shares" which would not pay dividends but would entitle the owner to some discount on parts, depending on the number of shares held.

As is ALWAYS the case with this hobby, storage space is the big hang-up. There's no particular reason why the inventory need be under the same roof, or in SB for that matter (though the banks would prefer it be where they can conveniently inspect it) but a modern warehousing facility would enable the stuff to be organized so it actually could be sold....So if SDC gets involved in a restructuring, I say move, if for no other reason than to get out from under the local politics...

http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g178/gmail98/th_51CommanderState.jpg
51 Commander State Sedan
Butler PA

Skip Lackie
06-26-2007, 08:38 AM
I'd like to bury the idea that the SASCO parts have not been inventoried. One needs to understand how we got to where we are.

1. The origin of the current SASCO was Standard Surplus, part of the Newman & Altman empire. SS purchased surplus inventory (mostly interior stuff) from Studebaker, but also dealt in surplus NOS auto parts from the other OEM suppliers in the area. When Stude quit making cars, there was no need to make room for new material, so they stopped throwing away excess stuff. This is why SASCO has so much interior material today. SS/N&A also had a lot of material left over from the production line -- like brake backing plates completely equipped with shoes, springs, wheel cylinders, etc. Such items were not assemblies under the Stude part number system, and therefore have no part numbers. One needed/needs to talk to someone at the store to find out if such items exist. SS/N&A occupied two old interconnected 5-story Stude buildings across Sample St from the current SASCO.
2. When Stude quit making cars, the Studebaker Autombile Sales Corp (SASCO) continued to provide OEM parts to ex-Stude dealers. The Avanti parts were sold (along with the Avanti name) to Avanti Motors Corp, a separate company owned by the Newman and Altman families. Avanti also obtained the rights to build Stude trucks, an option they never exercised.
3. In the early 70s, (old) SASCO sold the remaining inventory and the building in which it was housed to Avanti Parts Corp, another separate company. These parts were very well inventoried (albeit not computerized), and were stored in part number order. Avanti Parts continued to service the dwindling number of Stude dealers under the same terms as did (old) SASCO.
4. In the 80s, Avanti Parts Corp sold their remaining inventory to Newman & Altman. These parts had to be added to the parts already in the N&A buildings, which meant that the strict part-number arrangement had to be violated (small items went in one area, interior stuff in another, heavy stuff in another, etc). At this time, N&A began to inventory all of their parts. The inventory was pretty good, but it did have some holes. For example, some items listed as available in the Avanti Parts inventory were gone (perhaps looted), and others could not be found. In addition, the original N&A inventory had never attempted to count exactly how many door panels of which color were in stock, so one had to go upstairs and look in a certain aisle for a particular X number suffix.
5. When Cafaro moved Avanti Motors to Youngstown, N&A bought much of their leftover Avanti parts. This had to be added to the inventory.
6. Then a few years ago, the city took the N&A building so they could build a new jail. The N&A inventory was sold to Dennis, who established (new) SASCO. All the parts in those two 5-story buildings had to be moved across the street to an even larger (but two-story) building. Again, compromises had to be made about where to put what. Smaller, high-demand stuff is downstairs, while most bulky items are upstairs and grouped with similar stuff. The items upstairs are definitely not in part-number order, but many of the small items remain in the same bins and on the same shelves as when Studebaker Corp owned the depot.

Were some items misplaced during the transition? Probably a few. Were some other items found that were thought to be NLA? Yes, a few. Was anything purposely discarded? Very little. Did some items get damaged? A few. Did some items escape from their packaging, leaving a mess on the floor in some places? Yes. Has anybody tried to clean it up? It doesn't look like it. Are some items being damaged by a leaking roof or broken windows? Not much, and nothing critical. Is the inventory listing of parts accurate to, say, the 95% level? Pretty close.

We need to remember that managing the Stude parts depot is (business-wise) a small business, with about as many employees as a typical dry cleaning establishment. The roof needs to be repaired and the busted windows replaced. And the mes

Skip Lackie
06-26-2007, 08:38 AM
I'd like to bury the idea that the SASCO parts have not been inventoried. One needs to understand how we got to where we are.

1. The origin of the current SASCO was Standard Surplus, part of the Newman & Altman empire. SS purchased surplus inventory (mostly interior stuff) from Studebaker, but also dealt in surplus NOS auto parts from the other OEM suppliers in the area. When Stude quit making cars, there was no need to make room for new material, so they stopped throwing away excess stuff. This is why SASCO has so much interior material today. SS/N&A also had a lot of material left over from the production line -- like brake backing plates completely equipped with shoes, springs, wheel cylinders, etc. Such items were not assemblies under the Stude part number system, and therefore have no part numbers. One needed/needs to talk to someone at the store to find out if such items exist. SS/N&A occupied two old interconnected 5-story Stude buildings across Sample St from the current SASCO.
2. When Stude quit making cars, the Studebaker Autombile Sales Corp (SASCO) continued to provide OEM parts to ex-Stude dealers. The Avanti parts were sold (along with the Avanti name) to Avanti Motors Corp, a separate company owned by the Newman and Altman families. Avanti also obtained the rights to build Stude trucks, an option they never exercised.
3. In the early 70s, (old) SASCO sold the remaining inventory and the building in which it was housed to Avanti Parts Corp, another separate company. These parts were very well inventoried (albeit not computerized), and were stored in part number order. Avanti Parts continued to service the dwindling number of Stude dealers under the same terms as did (old) SASCO.
4. In the 80s, Avanti Parts Corp sold their remaining inventory to Newman & Altman. These parts had to be added to the parts already in the N&A buildings, which meant that the strict part-number arrangement had to be violated (small items went in one area, interior stuff in another, heavy stuff in another, etc). At this time, N&A began to inventory all of their parts. The inventory was pretty good, but it did have some holes. For example, some items listed as available in the Avanti Parts inventory were gone (perhaps looted), and others could not be found. In addition, the original N&A inventory had never attempted to count exactly how many door panels of which color were in stock, so one had to go upstairs and look in a certain aisle for a particular X number suffix.
5. When Cafaro moved Avanti Motors to Youngstown, N&A bought much of their leftover Avanti parts. This had to be added to the inventory.
6. Then a few years ago, the city took the N&A building so they could build a new jail. The N&A inventory was sold to Dennis, who established (new) SASCO. All the parts in those two 5-story buildings had to be moved across the street to an even larger (but two-story) building. Again, compromises had to be made about where to put what. Smaller, high-demand stuff is downstairs, while most bulky items are upstairs and grouped with similar stuff. The items upstairs are definitely not in part-number order, but many of the small items remain in the same bins and on the same shelves as when Studebaker Corp owned the depot.

Were some items misplaced during the transition? Probably a few. Were some other items found that were thought to be NLA? Yes, a few. Was anything purposely discarded? Very little. Did some items get damaged? A few. Did some items escape from their packaging, leaving a mess on the floor in some places? Yes. Has anybody tried to clean it up? It doesn't look like it. Are some items being damaged by a leaking roof or broken windows? Not much, and nothing critical. Is the inventory listing of parts accurate to, say, the 95% level? Pretty close.

We need to remember that managing the Stude parts depot is (business-wise) a small business, with about as many employees as a typical dry cleaning establishment. The roof needs to be repaired and the busted windows replaced. And the mes

Skip Lackie
06-26-2007, 09:41 AM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

This is about like watching pidgeon's peck at seeds next to a field of corn.....

South Bend doesn't want SASCO in that building.
South Bend doesn't want that building at all.
South Bend didn't want the administration building either.
(See how long it took for them to sell it?)
The city would be happy if it was all gone tomorrow.
No, noon today is more like it.
And the mayor will probably get more votes supporting the razing of that building than he would saving that building.

SASCO as a business venture will survive only as long as the current owner can pull some money out of it.
That is the right of a business owner.
When there is no money to be taken out
(that is...after the banker, insurer, lawyer, tax man, power company, etc...get their cut...)
The owner will probably just sell what's left and walk away.
Will it get 'cherry picked'?
Sure will.
It's only getting 'cherry picked' right now.
Heck, for that matter, it has always only been 'cherry picked'.
What amazes me is the fervor from people about the value of parts they are never, ever going to buy.
Just the thought of the parts not being there sends people into a tizzy.
Tis' an amazing thing to observe....again and again.
Soon, there won't be an again... Just a 'used to be'..
Jeff[8D]




Jeff- every one of your statements will probably turn out to be 100% right. However, I would like to respond to one of them:
"What amazes me is the fervor from people about the value of parts they are never, ever going to buy.
Just the thought of the parts not being there sends people into a tizzy."

I am surely one of those in a tizzy. All I can tell you is that I enjoy visiting SASCO, even if I don't need a thing they're selling. And I enjoy even more being allowed to see all those parts that I will never buy (which is why I couldn't miss the STF tour last Tuesday night). If the parts are dispersed (or junked) and the building torn down, then the principal reason to visit South Bend will vanish. I love the museum and enjoy visiting SB, but if SASCO is gone, it may not be worth the trip.


Skip Lackie
Washington DC

Skip Lackie
06-26-2007, 09:41 AM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

This is about like watching pidgeon's peck at seeds next to a field of corn.....

South Bend doesn't want SASCO in that building.
South Bend doesn't want that building at all.
South Bend didn't want the administration building either.
(See how long it took for them to sell it?)
The city would be happy if it was all gone tomorrow.
No, noon today is more like it.
And the mayor will probably get more votes supporting the razing of that building than he would saving that building.

SASCO as a business venture will survive only as long as the current owner can pull some money out of it.
That is the right of a business owner.
When there is no money to be taken out
(that is...after the banker, insurer, lawyer, tax man, power company, etc...get their cut...)
The owner will probably just sell what's left and walk away.
Will it get 'cherry picked'?
Sure will.
It's only getting 'cherry picked' right now.
Heck, for that matter, it has always only been 'cherry picked'.
What amazes me is the fervor from people about the value of parts they are never, ever going to buy.
Just the thought of the parts not being there sends people into a tizzy.
Tis' an amazing thing to observe....again and again.
Soon, there won't be an again... Just a 'used to be'..
Jeff[8D]




Jeff- every one of your statements will probably turn out to be 100% right. However, I would like to respond to one of them:
"What amazes me is the fervor from people about the value of parts they are never, ever going to buy.
Just the thought of the parts not being there sends people into a tizzy."

I am surely one of those in a tizzy. All I can tell you is that I enjoy visiting SASCO, even if I don't need a thing they're selling. And I enjoy even more being allowed to see all those parts that I will never buy (which is why I couldn't miss the STF tour last Tuesday night). If the parts are dispersed (or junked) and the building torn down, then the principal reason to visit South Bend will vanish. I love the museum and enjoy visiting SB, but if SASCO is gone, it may not be worth the trip.


Skip Lackie
Washington DC

Scott
06-26-2007, 10:25 AM
You know, if the parts were to be junked why wouldn't the bank GIVE them to people that will use them? What's the purpose in scrapping a bunch of parts? Does the bank think they're going to cash in on the metal value of the parts? Considering all the talk about how much stuff would have to be loaded and carted away, it sounds like the scrap value would be eaten up in labor costs.

Then what about the interior and small parts? Why would the bank be glad to see them go to a landfill before giving them away to people. Either way, they'd get nothing for those parts, so WHAT'S THE POINT of threatening to do so? And I find it hard it hard to believe (as in impossible) that all the other Studebaker vendors around the country would have no interest in buying up LARGE amounts of the stock. I can't in my wildest dreams imagine Studebaker International watching the parts all go away and patting Dennis on the back and saying what a shame it is. The sad thing is, if Studebaker International were to buy most of the stock the prices would surely climb a LOT.

And who's going to guard the secret of where the parts would be taken? Is there a law that says the dump can't give parts away as soon as they reach their dock? When they take possession, what are the rules then?

This whole thing seems ridiculous. We don't hear anything from Dennis, except through the grapevine, we don't hear anything definite from the banker's point of view, we don't hear anything definite from anyone. All we know is that the parts may in jeopardy and the people that can give information to work with won't talk. Id' like to help Dennis out, but on the other hand, if he's not going to allow anyone to help him - which, quite honestly is impression I'm getting, then this whole discussion is less than fruitless, it's practically a waste of time.

Scott
06-26-2007, 10:25 AM
You know, if the parts were to be junked why wouldn't the bank GIVE them to people that will use them? What's the purpose in scrapping a bunch of parts? Does the bank think they're going to cash in on the metal value of the parts? Considering all the talk about how much stuff would have to be loaded and carted away, it sounds like the scrap value would be eaten up in labor costs.

Then what about the interior and small parts? Why would the bank be glad to see them go to a landfill before giving them away to people. Either way, they'd get nothing for those parts, so WHAT'S THE POINT of threatening to do so? And I find it hard it hard to believe (as in impossible) that all the other Studebaker vendors around the country would have no interest in buying up LARGE amounts of the stock. I can't in my wildest dreams imagine Studebaker International watching the parts all go away and patting Dennis on the back and saying what a shame it is. The sad thing is, if Studebaker International were to buy most of the stock the prices would surely climb a LOT.

And who's going to guard the secret of where the parts would be taken? Is there a law that says the dump can't give parts away as soon as they reach their dock? When they take possession, what are the rules then?

This whole thing seems ridiculous. We don't hear anything from Dennis, except through the grapevine, we don't hear anything definite from the banker's point of view, we don't hear anything definite from anyone. All we know is that the parts may in jeopardy and the people that can give information to work with won't talk. Id' like to help Dennis out, but on the other hand, if he's not going to allow anyone to help him - which, quite honestly is impression I'm getting, then this whole discussion is less than fruitless, it's practically a waste of time.

DEEPNHOCK
06-26-2007, 10:25 AM
Please don't think I am picking on the masses here....
Just observing reality from a different perch is all....
Saying that....
Well, the business won't stay open because people are 'visiting'.
And the frenzy that is starting up here again is reminiscent of the last time this crisis was headlined. There were a bunch of enthusiasts who went and supplied the 'grunt work'* to move what was selected to be moved, and a whole 'net' army that besieged the city offices with e-mail and letters.
(* note: Interesting how 'that kind of work' was done by Americans who won't do 'that kind of work'...and volunteer work at that...for a private company!)
This time the city is wiser to this tactic and will move toward their goal in a different method.
It would indeed be nice to see the wagons get circled and have the SNM, The SDC Foundation, The AOAI, and anyone else step up to save the parts.
But.... To what end?
Dennis is living proof that you can't make big bucks with this stuff, even when operated on a shoestring budget.
Even if every SDC member worldwide brought a dancing partner and bought a thousand dollars of parts...it would not change anything.
OK, What if every SDC member challenged a white knight shipping company to donate a thousand trailers to help move the parts... (an idea I have kicked around, as I am in the HD truck parts arena..)
What would change?
Dennis would still have to get a building, and then all he would have is the same business model he has now.
And even Dennis has admitted that the business is struggling.
And remember... It is a private business.
Just because the parts are something we love and need, the fact that they are threatened with extinction does not automatically put the parts back into the public realm.
One could say the same thing about hamburgers and hot dogs.
Dennis could put the for sale sign up on the business.
Has anyone seen a for sale sign?
(Not for me to say, as I have not spoken to Dennis or anyone else in that regard)
I don't know if a museum, or a foundation would want to go into the old car parts business. Maybe if they could turn a quick buck and absorb that money into the organization.
I don't know... That's a hard one to visualize.
But even then.. The parts would have to go...a little at a time, or all at once.

I do agree with you that the reasons for visiting South Bend are dwindling.... Studebaker wise, that is.
But South Bend is adding other attractions to entice a different crowd of tourist's.
Perhaps the new crowd cares not for that heritage.
Sad thing for us to watch, but it is there in plain sight.
I'm not happy about it either.
Where is our finite energy best spent?
Jeff[8D]






quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie
Jeff- every one of your statements will probably turn out to be 100% right. However, I would like to respond to one of them:
"What amazes me is the fervor from people about the value of parts they are never, ever going to buy.
Just the thought of the parts not being there sends people into a tizzy."

I am surely one of those in a tizzy. All I can tell you is that I enjoy visiting SASCO, even if I don't need a thing they're selling. And I enjoy even more being allowed to see all those parts that I will never buy (which is why I couldn't miss the STF tour last Tuesday night). If the parts are dispersed (or junked) and the building torn down, then the principal reason to visit South Bend will vanish. I love the museum and enjoy visiting SB, but if SASCO is gone, it may not be worth the trip.
Skip Lackie
Washington DC

DEEPNHOCK
06-26-2007, 10:25 AM
Please don't think I am picking on the masses here....
Just observing reality from a different perch is all....
Saying that....
Well, the business won't stay open because people are 'visiting'.
And the frenzy that is starting up here again is reminiscent of the last time this crisis was headlined. There were a bunch of enthusiasts who went and supplied the 'grunt work'* to move what was selected to be moved, and a whole 'net' army that besieged the city offices with e-mail and letters.
(* note: Interesting how 'that kind of work' was done by Americans who won't do 'that kind of work'...and volunteer work at that...for a private company!)
This time the city is wiser to this tactic and will move toward their goal in a different method.
It would indeed be nice to see the wagons get circled and have the SNM, The SDC Foundation, The AOAI, and anyone else step up to save the parts.
But.... To what end?
Dennis is living proof that you can't make big bucks with this stuff, even when operated on a shoestring budget.
Even if every SDC member worldwide brought a dancing partner and bought a thousand dollars of parts...it would not change anything.
OK, What if every SDC member challenged a white knight shipping company to donate a thousand trailers to help move the parts... (an idea I have kicked around, as I am in the HD truck parts arena..)
What would change?
Dennis would still have to get a building, and then all he would have is the same business model he has now.
And even Dennis has admitted that the business is struggling.
And remember... It is a private business.
Just because the parts are something we love and need, the fact that they are threatened with extinction does not automatically put the parts back into the public realm.
One could say the same thing about hamburgers and hot dogs.
Dennis could put the for sale sign up on the business.
Has anyone seen a for sale sign?
(Not for me to say, as I have not spoken to Dennis or anyone else in that regard)
I don't know if a museum, or a foundation would want to go into the old car parts business. Maybe if they could turn a quick buck and absorb that money into the organization.
I don't know... That's a hard one to visualize.
But even then.. The parts would have to go...a little at a time, or all at once.

I do agree with you that the reasons for visiting South Bend are dwindling.... Studebaker wise, that is.
But South Bend is adding other attractions to entice a different crowd of tourist's.
Perhaps the new crowd cares not for that heritage.
Sad thing for us to watch, but it is there in plain sight.
I'm not happy about it either.
Where is our finite energy best spent?
Jeff[8D]






quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie
Jeff- every one of your statements will probably turn out to be 100% right. However, I would like to respond to one of them:
"What amazes me is the fervor from people about the value of parts they are never, ever going to buy.
Just the thought of the parts not being there sends people into a tizzy."

I am surely one of those in a tizzy. All I can tell you is that I enjoy visiting SASCO, even if I don't need a thing they're selling. And I enjoy even more being allowed to see all those parts that I will never buy (which is why I couldn't miss the STF tour last Tuesday night). If the parts are dispersed (or junked) and the building torn down, then the principal reason to visit South Bend will vanish. I love the museum and enjoy visiting SB, but if SASCO is gone, it may not be worth the trip.
Skip Lackie
Washington DC

DEEPNHOCK
06-26-2007, 10:37 AM
Scott,
Scrap metal prices are way, WAY up right now.
A scrap metal merchant with rail cars could swoop in and load up all the scrap metal...er...Stude parts and they'd all be gone in a very short amount of time. Then they'd be shredded, shipped to the coast, run up a conveyor into the hold of a ship and taken right to China or Japan and then re poured, cast, or stamped into new stuff and sent back for us to buy at Wal-Mart or Toyota...
Banks don't 'give' anything to anybody unless it get's them on the news showing neighborly good will.. This stuff is no exception.
If something can't be worked out, they might end up taking it all back from Dennis and then put up an absolute auction sign. Then the cool stuff would be grabbed by the local enthusiasts, and the scrappers would get the rest... Even then, the auctioneers are no dummies, and they'd put it all on their auction list in lots, so you'd have to buy 5 tons of stuff to get a hundred pounds of cool stuff.. (And the scrappers will be waiting for you at the door)....And the auctioneers will give you a whole 5 days to clear it all off the property (and the scrappers will be setting outside with their loaders and trailers)..
Not a rosy outcome, fer sure...
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by Scott

You know, if the parts were to be junked why wouldn't the bank GIVE them to people that will use them? What's the purpose in scrapping a bunch of parts? Does the bank think they're going to cash in on the metal value of the parts? Considering all the talk about how much stuff would have to be loaded and carted away, it sounds like the scrap value would be eaten up in labor costs.

Then what about the interior and small parts? Why would the bank be glad to see them go to a landfill before giving them away to people. Either way, they'd get nothing for those parts, so WHAT'S THE POINT of threatening to do so? And I find it hard it hard to believe (as in impossible) that all the other Studebaker vendors around the country would have no interest in buying up LARGE amounts of the stock. I can't in my wildest dreams imagine Studebaker International watching the parts all go away and patting Dennis on the back and saying what a shame it is. The sad thing is, if Studebaker International were to buy most of the stock the prices would surely climb a LOT.

And who's going to guard the secret of where the parts would be taken? Is there a law that says the dump can't give parts away as soon as they reach their dock? When they take possession, what are the rules then?

This whole thing seems ridiculous. We don't hear anything from Dennis, except through the grapevine, we don't hear anything definite from the banker's point of view, we don't hear anything definite from anyone. All we know is that the parts may in jeopardy and the people that can give information to work with won't talk. Id' like to help Dennis out, but on the other hand, if he's not going to allow anyone to help him - which, quite honestly is impression I'm getting, then this whole discussion is less than fruitless, it's practically a waste of time.

DEEPNHOCK
06-26-2007, 10:37 AM
Scott,
Scrap metal prices are way, WAY up right now.
A scrap metal merchant with rail cars could swoop in and load up all the scrap metal...er...Stude parts and they'd all be gone in a very short amount of time. Then they'd be shredded, shipped to the coast, run up a conveyor into the hold of a ship and taken right to China or Japan and then re poured, cast, or stamped into new stuff and sent back for us to buy at Wal-Mart or Toyota...
Banks don't 'give' anything to anybody unless it get's them on the news showing neighborly good will.. This stuff is no exception.
If something can't be worked out, they might end up taking it all back from Dennis and then put up an absolute auction sign. Then the cool stuff would be grabbed by the local enthusiasts, and the scrappers would get the rest... Even then, the auctioneers are no dummies, and they'd put it all on their auction list in lots, so you'd have to buy 5 tons of stuff to get a hundred pounds of cool stuff.. (And the scrappers will be waiting for you at the door)....And the auctioneers will give you a whole 5 days to clear it all off the property (and the scrappers will be setting outside with their loaders and trailers)..
Not a rosy outcome, fer sure...
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by Scott

You know, if the parts were to be junked why wouldn't the bank GIVE them to people that will use them? What's the purpose in scrapping a bunch of parts? Does the bank think they're going to cash in on the metal value of the parts? Considering all the talk about how much stuff would have to be loaded and carted away, it sounds like the scrap value would be eaten up in labor costs.

Then what about the interior and small parts? Why would the bank be glad to see them go to a landfill before giving them away to people. Either way, they'd get nothing for those parts, so WHAT'S THE POINT of threatening to do so? And I find it hard it hard to believe (as in impossible) that all the other Studebaker vendors around the country would have no interest in buying up LARGE amounts of the stock. I can't in my wildest dreams imagine Studebaker International watching the parts all go away and patting Dennis on the back and saying what a shame it is. The sad thing is, if Studebaker International were to buy most of the stock the prices would surely climb a LOT.

And who's going to guard the secret of where the parts would be taken? Is there a law that says the dump can't give parts away as soon as they reach their dock? When they take possession, what are the rules then?

This whole thing seems ridiculous. We don't hear anything from Dennis, except through the grapevine, we don't hear anything definite from the banker's point of view, we don't hear anything definite from anyone. All we know is that the parts may in jeopardy and the people that can give information to work with won't talk. Id' like to help Dennis out, but on the other hand, if he's not going to allow anyone to help him - which, quite honestly is impression I'm getting, then this whole discussion is less than fruitless, it's practically a waste of time.

JDP
06-26-2007, 10:51 AM
Jeff hit the nail on the head, even if the parts were sold at scrap value or given away to SDC members, most would end up at the land fill. If even 10% of our membership showed up with a pickup and bought a load, that's only a 1000 loads at best. If you had a 60 Lark and wanted 8 feet of door panel vinyl, would take a free 500 yard roll and save the rest for example.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
06-26-2007, 10:51 AM
Jeff hit the nail on the head, even if the parts were sold at scrap value or given away to SDC members, most would end up at the land fill. If even 10% of our membership showed up with a pickup and bought a load, that's only a 1000 loads at best. If you had a 60 Lark and wanted 8 feet of door panel vinyl, would take a free 500 yard roll and save the rest for example.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

A1956GoldenHawk
06-26-2007, 11:58 AM
quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie

<snip>3. In the early 70s, (old) SASCO sold the remaining inventory and the building in which it was housed to Avanti Parts Corp, another separate company. These parts were very well inventoried (albeit not computerized), and were stored in part number order. Avanti Parts continued to service the dwindling number of Stude dealers under the same terms as did (old) SASCO.

A couple points of clarification concerning Item 3:

The (old) SASCO sold the building (Studebaker's Plant #8) in which the current parts inventory was originally housed under a "time phase-out" agreement to Kaiser Jeep Corporation in 1968...I believe it was August 5th.:D By the time the (old) SASCO fully turned the building over to Kaiser Jeep, Kaiser Jeep had become AM General Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of American Motors ...remember AMC?:D I had the dubious:( honor on that last day to buy the last Studebaker owned items from the old SASCO. Oh BTW, Plant #8, Studebaker's former "World-wide Parts Headquarters," is still standing...vacant...only a short 16 block run straight South on Franklin St.

A1956GoldenHawk
06-26-2007, 11:58 AM
quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie

<snip>3. In the early 70s, (old) SASCO sold the remaining inventory and the building in which it was housed to Avanti Parts Corp, another separate company. These parts were very well inventoried (albeit not computerized), and were stored in part number order. Avanti Parts continued to service the dwindling number of Stude dealers under the same terms as did (old) SASCO.

A couple points of clarification concerning Item 3:

The (old) SASCO sold the building (Studebaker's Plant #8) in which the current parts inventory was originally housed under a "time phase-out" agreement to Kaiser Jeep Corporation in 1968...I believe it was August 5th.:D By the time the (old) SASCO fully turned the building over to Kaiser Jeep, Kaiser Jeep had become AM General Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of American Motors ...remember AMC?:D I had the dubious:( honor on that last day to buy the last Studebaker owned items from the old SASCO. Oh BTW, Plant #8, Studebaker's former "World-wide Parts Headquarters," is still standing...vacant...only a short 16 block run straight South on Franklin St.

HookedonStudies
06-26-2007, 12:27 PM
SDC President Ed Reynolds alluded to the aging problem within the SDC membership in his July TW column. This very real problem is another serious element of the whole SASCO discussion. Also in the July issue is a very interesting chart showing the number of members per state in the US and per country in the rest of the world. Unfortunately I don't think Cornerstone has age information on the membership - although on second thought if they did it might scare us all to death!

55 Commander
58 Transtar
62 GT Hawk
66 Cruiser

HookedonStudies
06-26-2007, 12:27 PM
SDC President Ed Reynolds alluded to the aging problem within the SDC membership in his July TW column. This very real problem is another serious element of the whole SASCO discussion. Also in the July issue is a very interesting chart showing the number of members per state in the US and per country in the rest of the world. Unfortunately I don't think Cornerstone has age information on the membership - although on second thought if they did it might scare us all to death!

55 Commander
58 Transtar
62 GT Hawk
66 Cruiser

Scott
06-26-2007, 12:38 PM
Well, then. I think Dennis ought to start a long series of big auctions starting RIGHT NOW! It looks like that's the only way to manage the parts stock dispersal. But since there's so much stuff he'd better get on the ball and make up his mind very soon what he's going to do (assuming the threat is a real one).

Scott
06-26-2007, 12:38 PM
Well, then. I think Dennis ought to start a long series of big auctions starting RIGHT NOW! It looks like that's the only way to manage the parts stock dispersal. But since there's so much stuff he'd better get on the ball and make up his mind very soon what he's going to do (assuming the threat is a real one).

JDP
06-26-2007, 01:03 PM
In round numbers, about a million dollars for the inventory.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
06-26-2007, 01:03 PM
In round numbers, about a million dollars for the inventory.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

Chris Pile
06-26-2007, 01:03 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

He will not post here while everything is up in the air but assured me he'd dive in big time if he saw things go sour.


John, that's why this thread is so long and full of stress - no one knows what's going on because Dennis hasn't said much. A little information (instead of conjecture) would go a long way towards keeping things from "going sour" with the membership.

Chris Pile
The Studebaker Special
Midway Chapter SDC

Chris Pile
06-26-2007, 01:03 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

He will not post here while everything is up in the air but assured me he'd dive in big time if he saw things go sour.


John, that's why this thread is so long and full of stress - no one knows what's going on because Dennis hasn't said much. A little information (instead of conjecture) would go a long way towards keeping things from "going sour" with the membership.

Chris Pile
The Studebaker Special
Midway Chapter SDC

A1956GoldenHawk
06-26-2007, 01:19 PM
quote:Originally posted by Scott

Well, then. I think Dennis ought to start a long series of big auctions starting RIGHT NOW! It looks like that's the only way to manage the parts stock dispersal. But since there's so much stuff he'd better get on the ball and make up his mind very soon what he's going to do (assuming the threat is a real one).


Scott, in one respect it would be very interesting to see how much $A$CO could get out of the parts. After all its not been that many years ago the City of South Bend (and its taxpayers) paid Newman & Altman/$tandard $urplus a whopping $24,000,000.00[:0] for those same parts.

A1956GoldenHawk
06-26-2007, 01:19 PM
quote:Originally posted by Scott

Well, then. I think Dennis ought to start a long series of big auctions starting RIGHT NOW! It looks like that's the only way to manage the parts stock dispersal. But since there's so much stuff he'd better get on the ball and make up his mind very soon what he's going to do (assuming the threat is a real one).


Scott, in one respect it would be very interesting to see how much $A$CO could get out of the parts. After all its not been that many years ago the City of South Bend (and its taxpayers) paid Newman & Altman/$tandard $urplus a whopping $24,000,000.00[:0] for those same parts.

JDP
06-26-2007, 01:21 PM
Just spoke to Dennis and he was happy with his sales at the International and is hoping a bit of good news may show up in a week or so. He will not post here while everything is up in the air but assured me he'd dive in big time if he saw things go sour.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
06-26-2007, 01:21 PM
Just spoke to Dennis and he was happy with his sales at the International and is hoping a bit of good news may show up in a week or so. He will not post here while everything is up in the air but assured me he'd dive in big time if he saw things go sour.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

Chucks Stude
06-26-2007, 01:53 PM
Well, if the market does not support SASCO then why are we even having this discussion? Are we just postponing the inevitable.
If we wanted to just scrap the business, because the will is not there to change the business model, than we all chip in, pay off Dennis's loan, walk away from it all and call it a day.
If our (and I use that term loosly) intention is to keep SASCO around as under market price supplier of parts, than there needs to be something else figured out to fund it. It cannot continue to exist as structured. How much is the outstanding loan on the parts? We are all discussing this in a vacuum, with no hard facts.
And Jeff, I wish I picked at things like a pidgeon, I could stand to loose a few lbs.

Chucks Stude
06-26-2007, 01:53 PM
Well, if the market does not support SASCO then why are we even having this discussion? Are we just postponing the inevitable.
If we wanted to just scrap the business, because the will is not there to change the business model, than we all chip in, pay off Dennis's loan, walk away from it all and call it a day.
If our (and I use that term loosly) intention is to keep SASCO around as under market price supplier of parts, than there needs to be something else figured out to fund it. It cannot continue to exist as structured. How much is the outstanding loan on the parts? We are all discussing this in a vacuum, with no hard facts.
And Jeff, I wish I picked at things like a pidgeon, I could stand to loose a few lbs.

bams50
06-26-2007, 02:47 PM
Jeff, somehow you've missed the point of this thread (as I see it anyway) and drifted off topic!

Your scenario is very possible- even likely. You have stated the obvious, as anyone who thinks about the situation a while can arrive at the same conclusion; and I agree with you! Where you veer off is here: This thread is not about stating the likely outcome, it's about trying to find any possible solutions! Maybe with a rational discussion, we can formulate a plan to save the parts, if not SASCO; or maybe we can't. As this thread- and time- play out, we shall see. Tis' an amazing thing, watching people fiddle as Rome burns- then lamenting a few years down the road that, "Something shoulda been done!!" How many time have we heard about perfectly good Studebakers with (now) very desirable parts that were junked b/c they couldn't get anything at all for them (back then)? Occasionally Biggs will share just such a story right on this very forum! This is what will happen here if no one can figure out a viable solution...

As for your description of the posters here, I know you're not talking about me, as you don't know me... but for the record, I don't do "tizzies"... I also don't spazz, freak out, or have a cow. Speaking only for myself, if the entire inventory were thrown in a hole and covered tomorrow, I'd still breathe in and out, go to work, love my family, and enjoy my Studes- same as every day. But I do feel that all this stuff should be saved if it can be figured out how; which is why I'm spending so much time on this thread!;)

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-26-2007, 02:47 PM
Jeff, somehow you've missed the point of this thread (as I see it anyway) and drifted off topic!

Your scenario is very possible- even likely. You have stated the obvious, as anyone who thinks about the situation a while can arrive at the same conclusion; and I agree with you! Where you veer off is here: This thread is not about stating the likely outcome, it's about trying to find any possible solutions! Maybe with a rational discussion, we can formulate a plan to save the parts, if not SASCO; or maybe we can't. As this thread- and time- play out, we shall see. Tis' an amazing thing, watching people fiddle as Rome burns- then lamenting a few years down the road that, "Something shoulda been done!!" How many time have we heard about perfectly good Studebakers with (now) very desirable parts that were junked b/c they couldn't get anything at all for them (back then)? Occasionally Biggs will share just such a story right on this very forum! This is what will happen here if no one can figure out a viable solution...

As for your description of the posters here, I know you're not talking about me, as you don't know me... but for the record, I don't do "tizzies"... I also don't spazz, freak out, or have a cow. Speaking only for myself, if the entire inventory were thrown in a hole and covered tomorrow, I'd still breathe in and out, go to work, love my family, and enjoy my Studes- same as every day. But I do feel that all this stuff should be saved if it can be figured out how; which is why I'm spending so much time on this thread!;)

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

61hawk
06-26-2007, 03:17 PM
quote:Originally posted by Chris Pile



John, that's why this thread is so long and full of stress - no one knows what's going on because Dennis hasn't said much. A little information (instead of conjecture) would go a long way towards keeping things from "going sour" with the membership.

Chris Pile
The Studebaker Special
Midway Chapter SDC


I hope everyone realizes that SASCO is a private business... Dennis has no reason to start rambling on about the numbers at the end of the month just because the hornets nest has been stirred up. Unless Dennis wants to volunteer information, it's really none of our damn business. SASCO is no different that Stude Int'l, do we need to see their books as well? Anyone here freaking out willing to scan and forward their bank statements or business day-to-day transactions to the Studebaker masses? I'm willing to bet $100 that life will go on for most of us with either decision that's handed down when the time comes.

Lee

61hawk
06-26-2007, 03:17 PM
quote:Originally posted by Chris Pile



John, that's why this thread is so long and full of stress - no one knows what's going on because Dennis hasn't said much. A little information (instead of conjecture) would go a long way towards keeping things from "going sour" with the membership.

Chris Pile
The Studebaker Special
Midway Chapter SDC


I hope everyone realizes that SASCO is a private business... Dennis has no reason to start rambling on about the numbers at the end of the month just because the hornets nest has been stirred up. Unless Dennis wants to volunteer information, it's really none of our damn business. SASCO is no different that Stude Int'l, do we need to see their books as well? Anyone here freaking out willing to scan and forward their bank statements or business day-to-day transactions to the Studebaker masses? I'm willing to bet $100 that life will go on for most of us with either decision that's handed down when the time comes.

Lee

bams50
06-26-2007, 03:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by Scott

we don't hear anything definite from anyone. All we know is that the parts may in jeopardy and the people that can give information to work with won't talk. Id' like to help Dennis out, but on the other hand, if he's not going to allow anyone to help him - which, quite honestly is impression I'm getting, then this whole discussion is less than fruitless, it's practically a waste of time.


This whole discussion is something of a preperatory exercise. My motivation is to explore ideas that could be presented to Dennis in the event the end is imminent- rather than wait until it's too late. I don't expect to hear anything from the 3 parties involved (Dennis, bank, city) unless there appears to be no other solution at hand! If that's next week, or next year, or whenever, we can try to come up with some course of action, and have it ready; or we'll find out we can't.

Either way, I've never heard Dennis say he doesn't want us to help him; did he say that when you went to talk to him? Because he didn't say that to me when I talked to him on Friday...

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-26-2007, 03:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by Scott

we don't hear anything definite from anyone. All we know is that the parts may in jeopardy and the people that can give information to work with won't talk. Id' like to help Dennis out, but on the other hand, if he's not going to allow anyone to help him - which, quite honestly is impression I'm getting, then this whole discussion is less than fruitless, it's practically a waste of time.


This whole discussion is something of a preperatory exercise. My motivation is to explore ideas that could be presented to Dennis in the event the end is imminent- rather than wait until it's too late. I don't expect to hear anything from the 3 parties involved (Dennis, bank, city) unless there appears to be no other solution at hand! If that's next week, or next year, or whenever, we can try to come up with some course of action, and have it ready; or we'll find out we can't.

Either way, I've never heard Dennis say he doesn't want us to help him; did he say that when you went to talk to him? Because he didn't say that to me when I talked to him on Friday...

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

61hawk
06-26-2007, 03:21 PM
Anybody heard of the story about Chicken Little?

Lee

61hawk
06-26-2007, 03:21 PM
Anybody heard of the story about Chicken Little?

Lee

JDP
06-26-2007, 03:40 PM
The Chicken Little example is a good one when we think back about SDC's attitude when we told them about the old building being torn down for the jail. I still recall the comment in TW about the Internet spreading "rumors". the TW issue hit at about the time the News Group shut down the cities e-mails and phones for a few days until we got a deal.
I think the time to contact the wagons owners and plan may be here, even if we don't have to circle them yet.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
06-26-2007, 03:40 PM
The Chicken Little example is a good one when we think back about SDC's attitude when we told them about the old building being torn down for the jail. I still recall the comment in TW about the Internet spreading "rumors". the TW issue hit at about the time the News Group shut down the cities e-mails and phones for a few days until we got a deal.
I think the time to contact the wagons owners and plan may be here, even if we don't have to circle them yet.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

61hawk
06-26-2007, 03:56 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

The Chicken Little example is a good one when we think back about SDC's attitude when we told them about the old building being torn down for the jail. I still recall the comment in TW about the Internet spreading "rumors". the TW issue hit at about the time the News Group shut down the cities e-mails and phones for a few days until we got a deal.
I think the time to contact the wagons owners and plan may be here, even if we don't have to circle them yet.



I agree, but the first order of business for the wagonmaster needs to be to get control of the few who are ready to firebomb city hall and lynch the mayor. People need to look at this rationally rather than as if the city of South Bend just insulted their mother.

Lee

61hawk
06-26-2007, 03:56 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

The Chicken Little example is a good one when we think back about SDC's attitude when we told them about the old building being torn down for the jail. I still recall the comment in TW about the Internet spreading "rumors". the TW issue hit at about the time the News Group shut down the cities e-mails and phones for a few days until we got a deal.
I think the time to contact the wagons owners and plan may be here, even if we don't have to circle them yet.



I agree, but the first order of business for the wagonmaster needs to be to get control of the few who are ready to firebomb city hall and lynch the mayor. People need to look at this rationally rather than as if the city of South Bend just insulted their mother.

Lee

bradnree
06-26-2007, 03:58 PM
You are correct Lee...and I got attacked above (bradnree) when speaking of a private business....SASCO is a private business and none of our business...I've followed the threads and I've seen the piles of parts...Mr. Shaw are you reading this threaded hot topic ???????????............Brad
quote:Originally posted by 61hawk


quote:Originally posted by Chris Pile



John, that's why this thread is so long and full of stress - no one knows what's going on because Dennis hasn't said much. A little information (instead of conjecture) would go a long way towards keeping things from "going sour" with the membership.

Chris Pile
The Studebaker Special
Midway Chapter SDC


I hope everyone realizes that SASCO is a private business... Dennis has no reason to start rambling on about the numbers at the end of the month just because the hornets nest has been stirred up. Unless Dennis wants to volunteer information, it's really none of our damn business. SASCO is no different that Stude Int'l, do we need to see their books as well? Anyone here freaking out willing to scan and forward their bank statements or business day-to-day transactions to the Studebaker masses? I'm willing to bet $100 that life will go on for most of us with either decision that's handed down when the time comes.

Lee

bradnree
06-26-2007, 03:58 PM
You are correct Lee...and I got attacked above (bradnree) when speaking of a private business....SASCO is a private business and none of our business...I've followed the threads and I've seen the piles of parts...Mr. Shaw are you reading this threaded hot topic ???????????............Brad
quote:Originally posted by 61hawk


quote:Originally posted by Chris Pile



John, that's why this thread is so long and full of stress - no one knows what's going on because Dennis hasn't said much. A little information (instead of conjecture) would go a long way towards keeping things from "going sour" with the membership.

Chris Pile
The Studebaker Special
Midway Chapter SDC


I hope everyone realizes that SASCO is a private business... Dennis has no reason to start rambling on about the numbers at the end of the month just because the hornets nest has been stirred up. Unless Dennis wants to volunteer information, it's really none of our damn business. SASCO is no different that Stude Int'l, do we need to see their books as well? Anyone here freaking out willing to scan and forward their bank statements or business day-to-day transactions to the Studebaker masses? I'm willing to bet $100 that life will go on for most of us with either decision that's handed down when the time comes.

Lee

JDP
06-26-2007, 05:41 PM
I certainly agree that SASCO is a private business, but it is "our business" because of the volume of Studebaker parts involved. As someone who puts a lot of Studebaker back on the road every year, I know I'd save a lot fewer without SASCO. Save fewer cars, and we lose potential club members. As to Dennis volunteering info, he is doing so, but indirectly and not on a public forum. he has spoken to myself, Skip, the Chamber of Commerce, SDC and many others. He is reading this forum and will surely pipe up indirectly if someone goes off the rails. He's never forgotten that the Internet saved the parts the last time and is thankful we share his concern about the parts. He flat out told me if the parts were saved in some manner and he had to lose his job, he'd walk away happy. He's been selling those parts for about 50 years and and become sort of attached to them.
:)

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
06-26-2007, 05:41 PM
I certainly agree that SASCO is a private business, but it is "our business" because of the volume of Studebaker parts involved. As someone who puts a lot of Studebaker back on the road every year, I know I'd save a lot fewer without SASCO. Save fewer cars, and we lose potential club members. As to Dennis volunteering info, he is doing so, but indirectly and not on a public forum. he has spoken to myself, Skip, the Chamber of Commerce, SDC and many others. He is reading this forum and will surely pipe up indirectly if someone goes off the rails. He's never forgotten that the Internet saved the parts the last time and is thankful we share his concern about the parts. He flat out told me if the parts were saved in some manner and he had to lose his job, he'd walk away happy. He's been selling those parts for about 50 years and and become sort of attached to them.
:)

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

bams50
06-26-2007, 06:50 PM
bradnree, nobody attacked you; I just pointed out that if you don't care about the situation, that's fine- but it's not going to deter those who want to HELP the situation, if possible! You're entitled not to care, but think about it- what purpose does it serve to say what you said? Did you think we'd all agree and not try to find solutions?

The vast majority of Stude folks want to see spare parts for Studes saved for future use; and to help a fellow Stude lover- and Dennis certainly qualifies... if you think this is a bad idea, why not just skip the discussion? But when you chime in to tell us to MYOB, you'll have to expect correction.

Maybe you could start a thread on why no one should try to help save the inventory for future use; you could outline your views as to why this is not a real problem, why the stuff isn't worth any effort, why SAQSCO and Dennis don't deserve our help or support; whatever you want! We'll all read it and who knows- maybe you'll start an anti-SASCO movement!:)

P.S. This is not an attack, just a response; see the smiley face?

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-26-2007, 06:50 PM
bradnree, nobody attacked you; I just pointed out that if you don't care about the situation, that's fine- but it's not going to deter those who want to HELP the situation, if possible! You're entitled not to care, but think about it- what purpose does it serve to say what you said? Did you think we'd all agree and not try to find solutions?

The vast majority of Stude folks want to see spare parts for Studes saved for future use; and to help a fellow Stude lover- and Dennis certainly qualifies... if you think this is a bad idea, why not just skip the discussion? But when you chime in to tell us to MYOB, you'll have to expect correction.

Maybe you could start a thread on why no one should try to help save the inventory for future use; you could outline your views as to why this is not a real problem, why the stuff isn't worth any effort, why SAQSCO and Dennis don't deserve our help or support; whatever you want! We'll all read it and who knows- maybe you'll start an anti-SASCO movement!:)

P.S. This is not an attack, just a response; see the smiley face?

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bob40
06-26-2007, 08:15 PM
Just my humble opinion reflecting on some of the above comments.While it's wonderful to have as many parts as SASCO has I disagree that everything should be saved.Reducing inventory would help in 2 ways.By scrapping items that there are either a huge amount of ...i.e. pallets of a item that rarely sells ...that would make doing a more comprehensive and accurate inventory count AND provide monies that could be used against the debt.If someone believes all the truck rear ends deserve to be saved but Dennis only sells 1 every 5 years(hypothetical number),sell the rear ends at scrap value.Space is cleared,money gets deposited into the SASCO account and the rear ends are saved.Inventory control is key,in my mind.Lose what doesnt sell or sells poorly,concentrate on selling what people want.You can have a 1,000 widgets that sell for cheap money but if they dont sell why have them? 200 Lark doors? Sell half to someone and use the space to find out whats in pallets that havent been looked at for years.I seem to recall that several times people have mentioned that a pallet of something was just discovered and that a lot of the inventory isnt on the internet site because they dont even know they have it.Cant sell it if you dont know you have it.Not everyone has the option to roam the building at will and find the really neat stuff and I dont begrudge those who do.I'm not a full time vendor or put cars on the road every year but I do sell parts and I just scrapped all the heavy parts I drug home from the International.No interest in them at the meet so they went in for weight.I cant afford to store stuff nobody wants or are in abundance and SASCO really is no different,just bigger.I'll duck for cover now....lol

bob40
06-26-2007, 08:15 PM
Just my humble opinion reflecting on some of the above comments.While it's wonderful to have as many parts as SASCO has I disagree that everything should be saved.Reducing inventory would help in 2 ways.By scrapping items that there are either a huge amount of ...i.e. pallets of a item that rarely sells ...that would make doing a more comprehensive and accurate inventory count AND provide monies that could be used against the debt.If someone believes all the truck rear ends deserve to be saved but Dennis only sells 1 every 5 years(hypothetical number),sell the rear ends at scrap value.Space is cleared,money gets deposited into the SASCO account and the rear ends are saved.Inventory control is key,in my mind.Lose what doesnt sell or sells poorly,concentrate on selling what people want.You can have a 1,000 widgets that sell for cheap money but if they dont sell why have them? 200 Lark doors? Sell half to someone and use the space to find out whats in pallets that havent been looked at for years.I seem to recall that several times people have mentioned that a pallet of something was just discovered and that a lot of the inventory isnt on the internet site because they dont even know they have it.Cant sell it if you dont know you have it.Not everyone has the option to roam the building at will and find the really neat stuff and I dont begrudge those who do.I'm not a full time vendor or put cars on the road every year but I do sell parts and I just scrapped all the heavy parts I drug home from the International.No interest in them at the meet so they went in for weight.I cant afford to store stuff nobody wants or are in abundance and SASCO really is no different,just bigger.I'll duck for cover now....lol

DEEPNHOCK
06-26-2007, 08:38 PM
Humble? You? ;)
Without having asked, I'll bet a donut Dennis has already done just what you did (and prescribe). Except for true scrap metal scrapping, I'll bet every avenue known has been tried. There's just such a limited market for stuff like this. I know a couple dozen obsolete merchandise guys that buy entire warehouses of stuff just to glean a few gems out of the warehouse full of pallets they bought at auction...by the ton. The surplus biz is not for the timid, or for those that are not well connected with their own kind.
The outsider's desire to save 'these' parts is what clouds the picture. The view from within the wallet is a different animal.
Getting mad and squabbling is...well...entertaining at best. Futile, but entertaining;)..
Jeff[8D]




quote:Originally posted by bob40

Just my humble opinion reflecting on some of the above comments.While it's wonderful to have as many parts as SASCO has I disagree that everything should be saved.Reducing inventory would help in 2 ways.By scrapping items that there are either a huge amount of ...i.e. pallets of a item that rarely sells ...that would make doing a more comprehensive and accurate inventory count AND provide monies that could be used against the debt.If someone believes all the truck rear ends deserve to be saved but Dennis only sells 1 every 5 years(hypothetical number),sell the rear ends at scrap value.Space is cleared,money gets deposited into the SASCO account and the rear ends are saved.Inventory control is key,in my mind.Lose what doesnt sell or sells poorly,concentrate on selling what people want.You can have a 1,000 widgets that sell for cheap money but if they dont sell why have them? 200 Lark doors? Sell half to someone and use the space to find out whats in pallets that havent been looked at for years.I seem to recall that several times people have mentioned that a pallet of something was just discovered and that a lot of the inventory isnt on the internet site because they dont even know they have it.Cant sell it if you dont know you have it.Not everyone has the option to roam the building at will and find the really neat stuff and I dont begrudge those who do.I'm not a full time vendor or put cars on the road every year but I do sell parts and I just scrapped all the heavy parts I drug home from the International.No interest in them at the meet so they went in for weight.I cant afford to store stuff nobody wants or are in abundance and SASCO really is no different,just bigger.I'll duck for cover now....lol

DEEPNHOCK
06-26-2007, 08:38 PM
Humble? You? ;)
Without having asked, I'll bet a donut Dennis has already done just what you did (and prescribe). Except for true scrap metal scrapping, I'll bet every avenue known has been tried. There's just such a limited market for stuff like this. I know a couple dozen obsolete merchandise guys that buy entire warehouses of stuff just to glean a few gems out of the warehouse full of pallets they bought at auction...by the ton. The surplus biz is not for the timid, or for those that are not well connected with their own kind.
The outsider's desire to save 'these' parts is what clouds the picture. The view from within the wallet is a different animal.
Getting mad and squabbling is...well...entertaining at best. Futile, but entertaining;)..
Jeff[8D]




quote:Originally posted by bob40

Just my humble opinion reflecting on some of the above comments.While it's wonderful to have as many parts as SASCO has I disagree that everything should be saved.Reducing inventory would help in 2 ways.By scrapping items that there are either a huge amount of ...i.e. pallets of a item that rarely sells ...that would make doing a more comprehensive and accurate inventory count AND provide monies that could be used against the debt.If someone believes all the truck rear ends deserve to be saved but Dennis only sells 1 every 5 years(hypothetical number),sell the rear ends at scrap value.Space is cleared,money gets deposited into the SASCO account and the rear ends are saved.Inventory control is key,in my mind.Lose what doesnt sell or sells poorly,concentrate on selling what people want.You can have a 1,000 widgets that sell for cheap money but if they dont sell why have them? 200 Lark doors? Sell half to someone and use the space to find out whats in pallets that havent been looked at for years.I seem to recall that several times people have mentioned that a pallet of something was just discovered and that a lot of the inventory isnt on the internet site because they dont even know they have it.Cant sell it if you dont know you have it.Not everyone has the option to roam the building at will and find the really neat stuff and I dont begrudge those who do.I'm not a full time vendor or put cars on the road every year but I do sell parts and I just scrapped all the heavy parts I drug home from the International.No interest in them at the meet so they went in for weight.I cant afford to store stuff nobody wants or are in abundance and SASCO really is no different,just bigger.I'll duck for cover now....lol

JDP
06-26-2007, 08:55 PM
Dennis did thin the inventory when he moved, much of it was left in the old building and donated to the museum and was quickly sold to another vendor. The stuff that was left went to the landfill with the building. A lot of the heavy truck stuff interchanges with other trucks and he exports some of it. As to the 400 door example, he has the room so there is no added expense to store it and a lot of work is involved in getting it out of the building. There are no "hidden pallets" in the new building, some misplaced parts to be sure, but no pallets that have not been picked trough by Dennis or a vendor. There is nothing left that would generate a quick 100K to update the buildings sprinkler system unfortunately.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
06-26-2007, 08:55 PM
Dennis did thin the inventory when he moved, much of it was left in the old building and donated to the museum and was quickly sold to another vendor. The stuff that was left went to the landfill with the building. A lot of the heavy truck stuff interchanges with other trucks and he exports some of it. As to the 400 door example, he has the room so there is no added expense to store it and a lot of work is involved in getting it out of the building. There are no "hidden pallets" in the new building, some misplaced parts to be sure, but no pallets that have not been picked trough by Dennis or a vendor. There is nothing left that would generate a quick 100K to update the buildings sprinkler system unfortunately.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

A1956GoldenHawk
06-26-2007, 09:35 PM
quote:Originally posted by bradnree

You are correct Lee...and I got attacked above (bradnree) when speaking of a private business....

In the words of that famous American, Rodney G. King; "People, I just want to say, you know, can't we all just get along?":)

A1956GoldenHawk
06-26-2007, 09:35 PM
quote:Originally posted by bradnree

You are correct Lee...and I got attacked above (bradnree) when speaking of a private business....

In the words of that famous American, Rodney G. King; "People, I just want to say, you know, can't we all just get along?":)

bams50
06-26-2007, 10:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by hotwheels63r2

When it is all over, and you find out what happened--you guys will really be pissed.

MIKE

MIKE


[?][?][?]

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-26-2007, 10:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by hotwheels63r2

When it is all over, and you find out what happened--you guys will really be pissed.

MIKE

MIKE


[?][?][?]

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

A1956GoldenHawk
06-27-2007, 07:22 AM
quote:Originally posted by Chucks Stude

I may be totally off base here, but maybe a rethink of SASCO's relationship to the Studebaker "Industry" might be in order. If SASCO could be restructured as just a supplier to the other vendors, with them being the retailer, and SASCO as the supplier, then we might have a better line of distribution of SASCO's inventory. SASCO could be the repository of NOS, and reproduction parts and the vendors could sell out of SASCO's inventory, without them being competitors, and than everyone would have a stake in SASCO's survival. If it could be done, SASCOís profits could be used to upgrade the system (building, inventory management, etc). I understand there is a lot of dead inventory but it is inventory, and would be safeguarded as any of the other inventory. This is just IMHO.

Well ...that IS an idea, but IT would take a lot of agreements with AND co-operation from the Studebaker "Industry," as you call it!:)

:DHere is another idea, but first a question for you:

Did you feel the Studebaker Corpís residual parts inventory was "safeguarded" for that third of a century it was in the hands of Newman & Altman, Inc.?

If your answer is YES, then what needs to happen is to find a way to replicate that Newman & Altman, Inc. business model/structure. Essentially there needs to be a "Geoff Newman" type person at the top of the organizational chart; a person highly experienced in the business world and with ALL the proper connections (financially & politically) to fend off all the Mayorís starving dogs while Dennis does what he has always done best ...sell parts & handle the internal day-to-day operations.

A1956GoldenHawk
06-27-2007, 07:22 AM
quote:Originally posted by Chucks Stude

I may be totally off base here, but maybe a rethink of SASCO's relationship to the Studebaker "Industry" might be in order. If SASCO could be restructured as just a supplier to the other vendors, with them being the retailer, and SASCO as the supplier, then we might have a better line of distribution of SASCO's inventory. SASCO could be the repository of NOS, and reproduction parts and the vendors could sell out of SASCO's inventory, without them being competitors, and than everyone would have a stake in SASCO's survival. If it could be done, SASCOís profits could be used to upgrade the system (building, inventory management, etc). I understand there is a lot of dead inventory but it is inventory, and would be safeguarded as any of the other inventory. This is just IMHO.

Well ...that IS an idea, but IT would take a lot of agreements with AND co-operation from the Studebaker "Industry," as you call it!:)

:DHere is another idea, but first a question for you:

Did you feel the Studebaker Corpís residual parts inventory was "safeguarded" for that third of a century it was in the hands of Newman & Altman, Inc.?

If your answer is YES, then what needs to happen is to find a way to replicate that Newman & Altman, Inc. business model/structure. Essentially there needs to be a "Geoff Newman" type person at the top of the organizational chart; a person highly experienced in the business world and with ALL the proper connections (financially & politically) to fend off all the Mayorís starving dogs while Dennis does what he has always done best ...sell parts & handle the internal day-to-day operations.

DEEPNHOCK
06-27-2007, 07:58 AM
The automotive aftermarket parts industry (and the HD truck parts industry) have spent the last 25 years doing their darndest to eliminate a step in parts distribution.
Do you actually think that the sprawling;) Studebaker parts industry would tolerate a voluntary additional level of distribution?
Saying that...
Let's say this did happen...Say at 3:00pm yesterday.
Today, evey part coming out of there just jumped...oh...say 80%.
40% for the first level of distribution added, and then some more just for the aggravation.
I can see the line forming at the door now[}:)]
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by A1956GoldenHawk

[quote]Originally posted by Chucks Stude

I may be totally off base here, but maybe a rethink of SASCO's relationship to the Studebaker "Industry" might be in order. If SASCO could be restructured as just a supplier to the other vendors, with them being the retailer, and SASCO as the supplier, then we might have a better line of distribution of SASCO's inventory. SASCO could be the repository of NOS, and reproduction parts and the vendors could sell out of SASCO's inventory, without them being competitors, and than everyone would have a stake in SASCO's survival. If it could be done, SASCOís profits could be used to upgrade the system (building, inventory management, etc). I understand there is a lot of dead inventory but it is inventory, and would be safeguarded as any of the other inventory. This is just IMHO.

DEEPNHOCK
06-27-2007, 07:58 AM
The automotive aftermarket parts industry (and the HD truck parts industry) have spent the last 25 years doing their darndest to eliminate a step in parts distribution.
Do you actually think that the sprawling;) Studebaker parts industry would tolerate a voluntary additional level of distribution?
Saying that...
Let's say this did happen...Say at 3:00pm yesterday.
Today, evey part coming out of there just jumped...oh...say 80%.
40% for the first level of distribution added, and then some more just for the aggravation.
I can see the line forming at the door now[}:)]
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by A1956GoldenHawk

[quote]Originally posted by Chucks Stude

I may be totally off base here, but maybe a rethink of SASCO's relationship to the Studebaker "Industry" might be in order. If SASCO could be restructured as just a supplier to the other vendors, with them being the retailer, and SASCO as the supplier, then we might have a better line of distribution of SASCO's inventory. SASCO could be the repository of NOS, and reproduction parts and the vendors could sell out of SASCO's inventory, without them being competitors, and than everyone would have a stake in SASCO's survival. If it could be done, SASCOís profits could be used to upgrade the system (building, inventory management, etc). I understand there is a lot of dead inventory but it is inventory, and would be safeguarded as any of the other inventory. This is just IMHO.

Dick Steinkamp
06-27-2007, 09:59 AM
quote:Originally posted by bob40

Just my humble opinion reflecting on some of the above comments.While it's wonderful to have as many parts as SASCO has I disagree that everything should be saved.Reducing inventory would help in 2 ways.By scrapping items that there are either a huge amount of ...i.e. pallets of a item that rarely sells ...that would make doing a more comprehensive and accurate inventory count AND provide monies that could be used against the debt.If someone believes all the truck rear ends deserve to be saved but Dennis only sells 1 every 5 years(hypothetical number),sell the rear ends at scrap value.Space is cleared,money gets deposited into the SASCO account and the rear ends are saved.Inventory control is key,in my mind.Lose what doesnt sell or sells poorly,concentrate on selling what people want.You can have a 1,000 widgets that sell for cheap money but if they dont sell why have them? 200 Lark doors? Sell half to someone and use the space to find out whats in pallets that havent been looked at for years.I seem to recall that several times people have mentioned that a pallet of something was just discovered and that a lot of the inventory isnt on the internet site because they dont even know they have it.Cant sell it if you dont know you have it.Not everyone has the option to roam the building at will and find the really neat stuff and I dont begrudge those who do.I'm not a full time vendor or put cars on the road every year but I do sell parts and I just scrapped all the heavy parts I drug home from the International.No interest in them at the meet so they went in for weight.I cant afford to store stuff nobody wants or are in abundance and SASCO really is no different,just bigger.I'll duck for cover now....lol


After touring the building last week with the STFers, I would have to whole heartedly agree with Bob. There is a lot of "junk" there...and a lot of stuff like bins and bins of stainless trim I didn't even know existed.

If the pallets of rusty tail pipes, air brake backing plates for big trucks, etc. "disappeared", I don't think anybody would miss them, AND the inventory could be stored in a fraction of the space it currently occupies.

1. Consolidate the dead inventory in one part of the building (it would need to be a BIG part of the building). Advertise it at dirt cheap prices. No shipping. Pick up only. What is left try to give away. Sell what remains to a scrap yard. (sure, keep a few of each...but not pallets).

2. Hold a "fire sale" on some of the good stuff that there is tons of but that occupies a lot of space. (doors, fenders, etc.). I mean CHEAP. Again, pick up only. Hopefully these items sell down to realistic levels, but all are "saved". Take the prices on these items up to levels higher than the original prices after the sale. That rewards those that helped out AND prices the items where they probably should be priced. Generates some cash and reduces the amount of storage space needed.

3. Hold a sale on some of the "cream of the crop". Generate some cash quickly. It might hurt to do this, but the parts are still saved, and hopefully a bunch of cash can be raised to finance a move to a smaller and more permanent space, organize and count the rest of the inventory, publish a paper catalog again, etc. (wouldn't it be neat if the pallets of interior upholstery and door panels were organized and in the computer? I'll bet restorers would pay several times the current price if they didn't have to go to South Bend and root through pallets and pallets of the stuff to MAYBE find what they need).

Just my 2 cents (and, NO, I have no desire to buy the inventory and implement my own plan :) ...I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid ;))

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
06-27-2007, 09:59 AM
quote:Originally posted by bob40

Just my humble opinion reflecting on some of the above comments.While it's wonderful to have as many parts as SASCO has I disagree that everything should be saved.Reducing inventory would help in 2 ways.By scrapping items that there are either a huge amount of ...i.e. pallets of a item that rarely sells ...that would make doing a more comprehensive and accurate inventory count AND provide monies that could be used against the debt.If someone believes all the truck rear ends deserve to be saved but Dennis only sells 1 every 5 years(hypothetical number),sell the rear ends at scrap value.Space is cleared,money gets deposited into the SASCO account and the rear ends are saved.Inventory control is key,in my mind.Lose what doesnt sell or sells poorly,concentrate on selling what people want.You can have a 1,000 widgets that sell for cheap money but if they dont sell why have them? 200 Lark doors? Sell half to someone and use the space to find out whats in pallets that havent been looked at for years.I seem to recall that several times people have mentioned that a pallet of something was just discovered and that a lot of the inventory isnt on the internet site because they dont even know they have it.Cant sell it if you dont know you have it.Not everyone has the option to roam the building at will and find the really neat stuff and I dont begrudge those who do.I'm not a full time vendor or put cars on the road every year but I do sell parts and I just scrapped all the heavy parts I drug home from the International.No interest in them at the meet so they went in for weight.I cant afford to store stuff nobody wants or are in abundance and SASCO really is no different,just bigger.I'll duck for cover now....lol


After touring the building last week with the STFers, I would have to whole heartedly agree with Bob. There is a lot of "junk" there...and a lot of stuff like bins and bins of stainless trim I didn't even know existed.

If the pallets of rusty tail pipes, air brake backing plates for big trucks, etc. "disappeared", I don't think anybody would miss them, AND the inventory could be stored in a fraction of the space it currently occupies.

1. Consolidate the dead inventory in one part of the building (it would need to be a BIG part of the building). Advertise it at dirt cheap prices. No shipping. Pick up only. What is left try to give away. Sell what remains to a scrap yard. (sure, keep a few of each...but not pallets).

2. Hold a "fire sale" on some of the good stuff that there is tons of but that occupies a lot of space. (doors, fenders, etc.). I mean CHEAP. Again, pick up only. Hopefully these items sell down to realistic levels, but all are "saved". Take the prices on these items up to levels higher than the original prices after the sale. That rewards those that helped out AND prices the items where they probably should be priced. Generates some cash and reduces the amount of storage space needed.

3. Hold a sale on some of the "cream of the crop". Generate some cash quickly. It might hurt to do this, but the parts are still saved, and hopefully a bunch of cash can be raised to finance a move to a smaller and more permanent space, organize and count the rest of the inventory, publish a paper catalog again, etc. (wouldn't it be neat if the pallets of interior upholstery and door panels were organized and in the computer? I'll bet restorers would pay several times the current price if they didn't have to go to South Bend and root through pallets and pallets of the stuff to MAYBE find what they need).

Just my 2 cents (and, NO, I have no desire to buy the inventory and implement my own plan :) ...I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid ;))

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

studeski
06-27-2007, 12:36 PM
I think it should be noted that many Timken axles and air brake assemblies are interchangeable. Advertising in the truck newsgroups would bring the inventory to many more truck collectors.


Claude Chmielewski
Studeski
http://www.studeski.com
Fillmore, Wisconsin
47 M-16 Truck
62 GT Hawk
63 Lark
64 Commander Wagonaire
50 Champion Regal (parts car)
[img=left]http://www.studeski.com/62hawk/dakota01.jpg[/img=left]
"One after another they volunteered how in their families and in their
communities they were expected to be responsible for their behavior, how
honesty was assumed to be the rule, not the exception. They also talked
matter-of-factly about the sense of duty to their country, a sentiment not
much in fashion anymore."

studeski
06-27-2007, 12:36 PM
I think it should be noted that many Timken axles and air brake assemblies are interchangeable. Advertising in the truck newsgroups would bring the inventory to many more truck collectors.


Claude Chmielewski
Studeski
http://www.studeski.com
Fillmore, Wisconsin
47 M-16 Truck
62 GT Hawk
63 Lark
64 Commander Wagonaire
50 Champion Regal (parts car)
[img=left]http://www.studeski.com/62hawk/dakota01.jpg[/img=left]
"One after another they volunteered how in their families and in their
communities they were expected to be responsible for their behavior, how
honesty was assumed to be the rule, not the exception. They also talked
matter-of-factly about the sense of duty to their country, a sentiment not
much in fashion anymore."

bams50
06-27-2007, 02:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

There is a lot of "junk" there...and a lot of stuff like bins and bins of stainless trim I didn't even know existed.

If the pallets of rusty tail pipes, air brake backing plates for big trucks, etc. "disappeared", I don't think anybody would miss them, AND the inventory could be stored in a fraction of the space it currently occupies.

1. Consolidate the dead inventory in one part of the building (it would need to be a BIG part of the building). Advertise it at dirt cheap prices. No shipping. Pick up only. What is left try to give away. Sell what remains to a scrap yard. (sure, keep a few of each...but not pallets).

2. Hold a "fire sale" on some of the good stuff that there is tons of but that occupies a lot of space. (doors, fenders, etc.). I mean CHEAP. Again, pick up only. Hopefully these items sell down to realistic levels, but all are "saved". Take the prices on these items up to levels higher than the original prices after the sale. That rewards those that helped out AND prices the items where they probably should be priced. Generates some cash and reduces the amount of storage space needed.

3. Hold a sale on some of the "cream of the crop". Generate some cash quickly. It might hurt to do this, but the parts are still saved, and hopefully a bunch of cash can be raised to finance a move to a smaller and more permanent space, organize and count the rest of the inventory, publish a paper catalog again, etc. (wouldn't it be neat if the pallets of interior upholstery and door panels were organized and in the computer? I'll bet restorers would pay several times the current price if they didn't have to go to South Bend and root through pallets and pallets of the stuff to MAYBE find what they need).



This is a plan that may be workable! When I talk about saving it all, I'm referring to viable items; I agree that things like rusted exhaust (and other things like exhaust that are easy and cheap to find or duplicate), damaged and unusable soft goods like interior, and multiples of very obscure items, are trash.

To those that have seen everything there: What percentage of the inventory do you estimate really is trash?

As for the interior, I went out there and left empty-handed and frustrated! To me, NOS interior is a very attractive item to buy- but as someone with limited Stude knowledge, I had no idea what anything fit[V] I would have bought everything for my 3 current Studes plus more, if I knew it was there...

I know that, were Dick's plan implemented, I'd plan a trip to SB with a big trailer and take part in a "fire sale"! Very low prices could be justified by SASCO by the no shipping or handling, pick-up and maybe cash only aspect; buyers could justify the special trip and tying up the cash by the super-low prices; maybe a small sliding-scale volume discount as an added incentive... And it would accomplish the very helpful goals Dick laid out[^]

I like this plan, and would be right there to get involved if it came to be.

This is what we need to see- viable ideas on the table for consideration should they become necessary... no one is trying to push anything onto Dennis, as everyone recognizes the only players that matter are he and the bank; we're merely showing support by putting our heads together[^]

Dennis, if you read this- speaking for myself, whatever you decide you have to do, I'll support; and if someone here presents something here that can help, well........ that's my ultimate goal!

I'm betting the vast majority here feel the same.

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-27-2007, 02:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

There is a lot of "junk" there...and a lot of stuff like bins and bins of stainless trim I didn't even know existed.

If the pallets of rusty tail pipes, air brake backing plates for big trucks, etc. "disappeared", I don't think anybody would miss them, AND the inventory could be stored in a fraction of the space it currently occupies.

1. Consolidate the dead inventory in one part of the building (it would need to be a BIG part of the building). Advertise it at dirt cheap prices. No shipping. Pick up only. What is left try to give away. Sell what remains to a scrap yard. (sure, keep a few of each...but not pallets).

2. Hold a "fire sale" on some of the good stuff that there is tons of but that occupies a lot of space. (doors, fenders, etc.). I mean CHEAP. Again, pick up only. Hopefully these items sell down to realistic levels, but all are "saved". Take the prices on these items up to levels higher than the original prices after the sale. That rewards those that helped out AND prices the items where they probably should be priced. Generates some cash and reduces the amount of storage space needed.

3. Hold a sale on some of the "cream of the crop". Generate some cash quickly. It might hurt to do this, but the parts are still saved, and hopefully a bunch of cash can be raised to finance a move to a smaller and more permanent space, organize and count the rest of the inventory, publish a paper catalog again, etc. (wouldn't it be neat if the pallets of interior upholstery and door panels were organized and in the computer? I'll bet restorers would pay several times the current price if they didn't have to go to South Bend and root through pallets and pallets of the stuff to MAYBE find what they need).



This is a plan that may be workable! When I talk about saving it all, I'm referring to viable items; I agree that things like rusted exhaust (and other things like exhaust that are easy and cheap to find or duplicate), damaged and unusable soft goods like interior, and multiples of very obscure items, are trash.

To those that have seen everything there: What percentage of the inventory do you estimate really is trash?

As for the interior, I went out there and left empty-handed and frustrated! To me, NOS interior is a very attractive item to buy- but as someone with limited Stude knowledge, I had no idea what anything fit[V] I would have bought everything for my 3 current Studes plus more, if I knew it was there...

I know that, were Dick's plan implemented, I'd plan a trip to SB with a big trailer and take part in a "fire sale"! Very low prices could be justified by SASCO by the no shipping or handling, pick-up and maybe cash only aspect; buyers could justify the special trip and tying up the cash by the super-low prices; maybe a small sliding-scale volume discount as an added incentive... And it would accomplish the very helpful goals Dick laid out[^]

I like this plan, and would be right there to get involved if it came to be.

This is what we need to see- viable ideas on the table for consideration should they become necessary... no one is trying to push anything onto Dennis, as everyone recognizes the only players that matter are he and the bank; we're merely showing support by putting our heads together[^]

Dennis, if you read this- speaking for myself, whatever you decide you have to do, I'll support; and if someone here presents something here that can help, well........ that's my ultimate goal!

I'm betting the vast majority here feel the same.

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

JRoberts
06-27-2007, 02:55 PM
I have held my tongue, but I got to thinking. There some viable plans that have been posted here. Indeed some make lots of sense. Of course there are others that are rather questionable.
But everyone seems to forget its not "our" stuff. This is a business and the "stuff" belongs to Dennis (and/or the bank). I am not sure we have much right to expressing all of these ideas to "save" the SASCO inventory. I mean, naturally I would like to see it saved, but what business is it of this forum to think its members have a right to made these decisions? I mean some here act as if they are going to personally save SASCO despite having no ownership of the "stuff" and certainly no right to interfer with however it is that Dennis wants to go about taking care of his business. If he wants suggestions, let him ask for them, but until then if you really want to save Dennis's "stuff," then buy more of it.
Joe Roberts

JRoberts
06-27-2007, 02:55 PM
I have held my tongue, but I got to thinking. There some viable plans that have been posted here. Indeed some make lots of sense. Of course there are others that are rather questionable.
But everyone seems to forget its not "our" stuff. This is a business and the "stuff" belongs to Dennis (and/or the bank). I am not sure we have much right to expressing all of these ideas to "save" the SASCO inventory. I mean, naturally I would like to see it saved, but what business is it of this forum to think its members have a right to made these decisions? I mean some here act as if they are going to personally save SASCO despite having no ownership of the "stuff" and certainly no right to interfer with however it is that Dennis wants to go about taking care of his business. If he wants suggestions, let him ask for them, but until then if you really want to save Dennis's "stuff," then buy more of it.
Joe Roberts

Skip Lackie
06-27-2007, 04:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50
As for the interior, I went out there and left empty-handed and frustrated! To me, NOS interior is a very attractive item to buy- but as someone with limited Stude knowledge, I had no idea what anything fit[V] I would have bought everything for my 3 current Studes plus more, if I knew it was there...

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1




bams50-
In case you didn't know:
The interior items that Dennis had for sale on the first floor of SASCO were samples and/or sale items, and were not a complete set of what he has available. Seat covers, door panels, and other interior items did have part numbers, but they're not in the parts book because Studebaker did not expect to service them very long (just like the other car manufacturers of the time). Most such items were only carried in the parts inventory for a few years, after which they were sold as surplus (to Newman and Altman!).

Anyway, SASCO has the part number book for that stuff. Dennis or Dave can look those items up if you call and tell them model, color, etc. However, you may end up paying more than you would have during the meet . . . . .

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

Skip Lackie
06-27-2007, 04:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50
As for the interior, I went out there and left empty-handed and frustrated! To me, NOS interior is a very attractive item to buy- but as someone with limited Stude knowledge, I had no idea what anything fit[V] I would have bought everything for my 3 current Studes plus more, if I knew it was there...

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1




bams50-
In case you didn't know:
The interior items that Dennis had for sale on the first floor of SASCO were samples and/or sale items, and were not a complete set of what he has available. Seat covers, door panels, and other interior items did have part numbers, but they're not in the parts book because Studebaker did not expect to service them very long (just like the other car manufacturers of the time). Most such items were only carried in the parts inventory for a few years, after which they were sold as surplus (to Newman and Altman!).

Anyway, SASCO has the part number book for that stuff. Dennis or Dave can look those items up if you call and tell them model, color, etc. However, you may end up paying more than you would have during the meet . . . . .

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

bams50
06-27-2007, 04:44 PM
To JRoberts-

Please go back and read the OP by Skip, who has been speaking to Dennis! This whole thread is in response to what Skip originally wrote; including the product of his discussions with Dennis! I quote:

"Dennis pointed out that he is just the current custodian of the parts, and could be run over by a bread truck tomorrow. We need to think about approaches that will ensure the continued existence of the parts inventory as it currently exists, where it currently exists. So he suggests that we stop talking about SASCO, and start talking about the destiny of the parts depot inventory."

So if you re-read the OP, you'll see that Dennis IS looking for suggestions. No one thinks it's their "business" to make decisions for him- and no one has! All that has been done here- as I've pointed out a few times now- is to try to brainstorm some possible courses of action- which takes us back to Skip's original post: "We need to think about approaches"... and that's what we've been doing here!

As to the ACTUAL subject of this thread- if I'm able to "personally save SASCO", you bet I'm going to. Right now, however, I'm merely recognizing where things currently stand, and am trying to think about approaches- as requested.

If Dennis, or anyone else who shares my love for Studes, need help- and I might be able to contribute to that help- I absolutely will! There have been plenty of excuses in different posts why we shouldn't help- and frankly they only add up to excuses! I don't know if it will prove out that I'm able to help; but I can guarantee that my heart is to be part of the solution- not try to pick off those who are trying so I don't have to do anything myself!

If anyone thinks that's a wrong motivation, that's fine with me; but it won't deter me one bit.

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-27-2007, 04:44 PM
To JRoberts-

Please go back and read the OP by Skip, who has been speaking to Dennis! This whole thread is in response to what Skip originally wrote; including the product of his discussions with Dennis! I quote:

"Dennis pointed out that he is just the current custodian of the parts, and could be run over by a bread truck tomorrow. We need to think about approaches that will ensure the continued existence of the parts inventory as it currently exists, where it currently exists. So he suggests that we stop talking about SASCO, and start talking about the destiny of the parts depot inventory."

So if you re-read the OP, you'll see that Dennis IS looking for suggestions. No one thinks it's their "business" to make decisions for him- and no one has! All that has been done here- as I've pointed out a few times now- is to try to brainstorm some possible courses of action- which takes us back to Skip's original post: "We need to think about approaches"... and that's what we've been doing here!

As to the ACTUAL subject of this thread- if I'm able to "personally save SASCO", you bet I'm going to. Right now, however, I'm merely recognizing where things currently stand, and am trying to think about approaches- as requested.

If Dennis, or anyone else who shares my love for Studes, need help- and I might be able to contribute to that help- I absolutely will! There have been plenty of excuses in different posts why we shouldn't help- and frankly they only add up to excuses! I don't know if it will prove out that I'm able to help; but I can guarantee that my heart is to be part of the solution- not try to pick off those who are trying so I don't have to do anything myself!

If anyone thinks that's a wrong motivation, that's fine with me; but it won't deter me one bit.

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-27-2007, 04:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie

In case you didn't know:
The interior items that Dennis had for sale on the first floor of SASCO were samples and/or sale items, and were not a complete set of what he has available. Seat covers, door panels, and other interior items did have part numbers, but they're not in the parts book because Studebaker did not expect to service them very long (just like the other car manufacturers of the time). Most such items were only carried in the parts inventory for a few years, after which they were sold as surplus (to Newman and Altman!).

Anyway, SASCO has the part number book for that stuff. Dennis or Dave can look those items up if you call and tell them model, color, etc. However, you may end up paying more than you would have during the meet . . . . .



Thanks, Skip- no, I didn't know that! I'll call; as to the cost being more, I'm sure they'll be reasonable anyway, based on how Dennis has done business thus far![^] I may have saved the shipping, but they were so busy I just took the pile I had and figured to order more stuff after the Meet left town anyway; besides, the wagon was pretty full as it was;)

Gotta love those NOS doors![8D]

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-27-2007, 04:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie

In case you didn't know:
The interior items that Dennis had for sale on the first floor of SASCO were samples and/or sale items, and were not a complete set of what he has available. Seat covers, door panels, and other interior items did have part numbers, but they're not in the parts book because Studebaker did not expect to service them very long (just like the other car manufacturers of the time). Most such items were only carried in the parts inventory for a few years, after which they were sold as surplus (to Newman and Altman!).

Anyway, SASCO has the part number book for that stuff. Dennis or Dave can look those items up if you call and tell them model, color, etc. However, you may end up paying more than you would have during the meet . . . . .



Thanks, Skip- no, I didn't know that! I'll call; as to the cost being more, I'm sure they'll be reasonable anyway, based on how Dennis has done business thus far![^] I may have saved the shipping, but they were so busy I just took the pile I had and figured to order more stuff after the Meet left town anyway; besides, the wagon was pretty full as it was;)

Gotta love those NOS doors![8D]

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

GTtim
06-27-2007, 05:05 PM
If the building that SASCO is in is torn down, what will happen to the land? In other words, what is the city's end goal in redeveloping the property? Wouldn't they spend a bunch of money to tear down the building, prepare the property for sale and then give it to some developer? What if some investor were to approach the city about buying the SASCO building as it is now? Couldn't that investor get historic preservation grants to make improvements to the building that would allow SASCO to stay where it is? Has anyone ever thought about trying to buy the building? I don't have the money and I don't understand the mechanics of getting grants, but I do know this kind of thing happens regularly. I'm thinking maybe if it is talked up amongst the Studebaker membership someone will step forward. Just thinking outloud.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

GTtim
06-27-2007, 05:05 PM
If the building that SASCO is in is torn down, what will happen to the land? In other words, what is the city's end goal in redeveloping the property? Wouldn't they spend a bunch of money to tear down the building, prepare the property for sale and then give it to some developer? What if some investor were to approach the city about buying the SASCO building as it is now? Couldn't that investor get historic preservation grants to make improvements to the building that would allow SASCO to stay where it is? Has anyone ever thought about trying to buy the building? I don't have the money and I don't understand the mechanics of getting grants, but I do know this kind of thing happens regularly. I'm thinking maybe if it is talked up amongst the Studebaker membership someone will step forward. Just thinking outloud.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

PlainBrownR2
06-27-2007, 05:53 PM
quote: If the building that SASCO is in is torn down, what will happen to the land? In other words, what is the city's end goal in redeveloping the property? Wouldn't they spend a bunch of money to tear down the building, prepare the property for sale and then give it to some developer?

I live in an area in the SW Chicago suburbs. That is one of the biggest things that happens here. Except its not buildings, its farmland. The fine highly nutrient rich, highly prized glacial till is plowed up as the developer from the suburbs doesnt see it as this. He sees another wonderful and valuable spot to plunk down a subdivision or strip mall. So he offers the farmer a larger sum of money than the farmer can get from the soil and the developer comes in, knocks down the farmhouse, bulldozes the land, and the rest is history. The developers out here seem to see just empty space that could be used for something else. Now I don't know how the developers around South Bend usually conduct business, but this is one of the scenarios if a developer comes in and sees this building as anything but a place of business for the rest of us. The developer might come to Dennis with a large bag of money with a dollar sign on it, and the offer could be large enough that Dennis couldn't resist. If he did the developer could come back with a bigger offer and keep returning until Dennis gave in. This scenario is also the one that troubles me the most as its one of the most ideal situations that could happen.


1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
1950 Studebaker 2R5 with 170 turbocharged
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00003.jpg?t=1171152673[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00009.jpg?t=1171153019[/img=right]
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00002.jpg?t=1171153180[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]

PlainBrownR2
06-27-2007, 05:53 PM
quote: If the building that SASCO is in is torn down, what will happen to the land? In other words, what is the city's end goal in redeveloping the property? Wouldn't they spend a bunch of money to tear down the building, prepare the property for sale and then give it to some developer?

I live in an area in the SW Chicago suburbs. That is one of the biggest things that happens here. Except its not buildings, its farmland. The fine highly nutrient rich, highly prized glacial till is plowed up as the developer from the suburbs doesnt see it as this. He sees another wonderful and valuable spot to plunk down a subdivision or strip mall. So he offers the farmer a larger sum of money than the farmer can get from the soil and the developer comes in, knocks down the farmhouse, bulldozes the land, and the rest is history. The developers out here seem to see just empty space that could be used for something else. Now I don't know how the developers around South Bend usually conduct business, but this is one of the scenarios if a developer comes in and sees this building as anything but a place of business for the rest of us. The developer might come to Dennis with a large bag of money with a dollar sign on it, and the offer could be large enough that Dennis couldn't resist. If he did the developer could come back with a bigger offer and keep returning until Dennis gave in. This scenario is also the one that troubles me the most as its one of the most ideal situations that could happen.


1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
1950 Studebaker 2R5 with 170 turbocharged
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00003.jpg?t=1171152673[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00009.jpg?t=1171153019[/img=right]
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00002.jpg?t=1171153180[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]

bradnree
06-27-2007, 06:00 PM
AMEN.................Brad
quote:Originally posted by JRoberts

I have held my tongue, but I got to thinking. There some viable plans that have been posted here. Indeed some make lots of sense. Of course there are others that are rather questionable.
But everyone seems to forget its not "our" stuff. This is a business and the "stuff" belongs to Dennis (and/or the bank). I am not sure we have much right to expressing all of these ideas to "save" the SASCO inventory. I mean, naturally I would like to see it saved, but what business is it of this forum to think its members have a right to made these decisions? I mean some here act as if they are going to personally save SASCO despite having no ownership of the "stuff" and certainly no right to interfer with however it is that Dennis wants to go about taking care of his business. If he wants suggestions, let him ask for them, but until then if you really want to save Dennis's "stuff," then buy more of it.
Joe Roberts

bradnree
06-27-2007, 06:00 PM
AMEN.................Brad
quote:Originally posted by JRoberts

I have held my tongue, but I got to thinking. There some viable plans that have been posted here. Indeed some make lots of sense. Of course there are others that are rather questionable.
But everyone seems to forget its not "our" stuff. This is a business and the "stuff" belongs to Dennis (and/or the bank). I am not sure we have much right to expressing all of these ideas to "save" the SASCO inventory. I mean, naturally I would like to see it saved, but what business is it of this forum to think its members have a right to made these decisions? I mean some here act as if they are going to personally save SASCO despite having no ownership of the "stuff" and certainly no right to interfer with however it is that Dennis wants to go about taking care of his business. If he wants suggestions, let him ask for them, but until then if you really want to save Dennis's "stuff," then buy more of it.
Joe Roberts

Dick Steinkamp
06-27-2007, 06:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by GTtim

If the building that SASCO is in is torn down, what will happen to the land? In other words, what is the city's end goal in redeveloping the property? Wouldn't they spend a bunch of money to tear down the building, prepare the property for sale and then give it to some developer? What if some investor were to approach the city about buying the SASCO building as it is now? Couldn't that investor get historic preservation grants to make improvements to the building that would allow SASCO to stay where it is? Has anyone ever thought about trying to buy the building? I don't have the money and I don't understand the mechanics of getting grants, but I do know this kind of thing happens regularly. I'm thinking maybe if it is talked up amongst the Studebaker membership someone will step forward. Just thinking outloud.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk


Tim,
I don't know if you've seen the SASCO building, but it is hardly attractive and hardly in an area that could be considered attractive or desirable. I know it is part of Studebaker history, but the fact is, it's ugly in an ugly neighborhood (BTW, this is in contrast to the Administration Building which IS attractive and on a main street).

I'm no developer, but my take is that no one in their right mind would buy the building and refurb it if it took any sort of real money to do it.

I do believe I've heard that the building could be bought for (literally) peanuts.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
06-27-2007, 06:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by GTtim

If the building that SASCO is in is torn down, what will happen to the land? In other words, what is the city's end goal in redeveloping the property? Wouldn't they spend a bunch of money to tear down the building, prepare the property for sale and then give it to some developer? What if some investor were to approach the city about buying the SASCO building as it is now? Couldn't that investor get historic preservation grants to make improvements to the building that would allow SASCO to stay where it is? Has anyone ever thought about trying to buy the building? I don't have the money and I don't understand the mechanics of getting grants, but I do know this kind of thing happens regularly. I'm thinking maybe if it is talked up amongst the Studebaker membership someone will step forward. Just thinking outloud.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk


Tim,
I don't know if you've seen the SASCO building, but it is hardly attractive and hardly in an area that could be considered attractive or desirable. I know it is part of Studebaker history, but the fact is, it's ugly in an ugly neighborhood (BTW, this is in contrast to the Administration Building which IS attractive and on a main street).

I'm no developer, but my take is that no one in their right mind would buy the building and refurb it if it took any sort of real money to do it.

I do believe I've heard that the building could be bought for (literally) peanuts.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

mbstude
06-27-2007, 06:05 PM
quote:I do believe I've heard that the building could be bought for (literally) peanuts.


Hey, if anyone was interested, Logan's Roadhouse isn't too far from SASCO. [:o)] Get all the peanuts you want. [^]

Matthew Burnette
'59 Scotsman
'63 Daytona
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/00track.jpg

mbstude
06-27-2007, 06:05 PM
quote:I do believe I've heard that the building could be bought for (literally) peanuts.


Hey, if anyone was interested, Logan's Roadhouse isn't too far from SASCO. [:o)] Get all the peanuts you want. [^]

Matthew Burnette
'59 Scotsman
'63 Daytona
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/00track.jpg

Guido
06-27-2007, 06:23 PM
I have to agree with Dick on this one. The building is antiquated, apparently not maintained, has legacy issues (i.e. asbestos, lead paint, soil contamination, etc.), is not in a desirable location and is really not conducive to being renovated for a retail establishment. Given the fire code issues that exist now, it is highly unlikely anyone would expend any money in bringing it up to code.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctorís buggy; Studebaker horse drawn ďIzzerĒ buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
06-27-2007, 06:23 PM
I have to agree with Dick on this one. The building is antiquated, apparently not maintained, has legacy issues (i.e. asbestos, lead paint, soil contamination, etc.), is not in a desirable location and is really not conducive to being renovated for a retail establishment. Given the fire code issues that exist now, it is highly unlikely anyone would expend any money in bringing it up to code.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctorís buggy; Studebaker horse drawn ďIzzerĒ buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

curt
06-27-2007, 07:28 PM
It is better to save some parts than have the entire stock burn. This is a bummer to have such a great part dept closed up.. Would J C Whitney have any way to take over the parts if it came to part loss at the dump?

curt
06-27-2007, 07:28 PM
It is better to save some parts than have the entire stock burn. This is a bummer to have such a great part dept closed up.. Would J C Whitney have any way to take over the parts if it came to part loss at the dump?

wally
06-27-2007, 07:38 PM
It sounds to me as if there isn't an individual investor waiting in the wings to provide a bailout, at this point. The building is old, but still very useable if deferred maintainance issues are attended to. The logical solution(though not necessarily a painless & cheap one)is for a collective like the SDC to buy it lock, stock, and barrel, secure financing to upgrade the building, and continue to market the inventory. And then, I'm just guessing that Denis might be able to continue to manage the operation for awhile. Yes, anyone can come up with yeah, buts..... In reality, Positive ideas make all the difference. Where there is a Will, there is a way. :)

wally
06-27-2007, 07:38 PM
It sounds to me as if there isn't an individual investor waiting in the wings to provide a bailout, at this point. The building is old, but still very useable if deferred maintainance issues are attended to. The logical solution(though not necessarily a painless & cheap one)is for a collective like the SDC to buy it lock, stock, and barrel, secure financing to upgrade the building, and continue to market the inventory. And then, I'm just guessing that Denis might be able to continue to manage the operation for awhile. Yes, anyone can come up with yeah, buts..... In reality, Positive ideas make all the difference. Where there is a Will, there is a way. :)

DEEPNHOCK
06-27-2007, 08:48 PM
Add to that the developers in Illinois will scrape off all of that nice black dirt...and sell it back to you when you buy the lot...
Jeff[8D]




quote:Originally posted by GTtim

If the building that SASCO is in is torn down, what will happen to the land? In other words, what is the city's end goal in redeveloping the property? Wouldn't they spend a bunch of money to tear down the building, prepare the property for sale and then give it to some developer? What if some investor were to approach the city about buying the SASCO building as it is now? Couldn't that investor get historic preservation grants to make improvements to the building that would allow SASCO to stay where it is? Has anyone ever thought about trying to buy the building? I don't have the money and I don't understand the mechanics of getting grants, but I do know this kind of thing happens regularly. I'm thinking maybe if it is talked up amongst the Studebaker membership someone will step forward. Just thinking outloud.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

DEEPNHOCK
06-27-2007, 08:48 PM
Add to that the developers in Illinois will scrape off all of that nice black dirt...and sell it back to you when you buy the lot...
Jeff[8D]




quote:Originally posted by GTtim

If the building that SASCO is in is torn down, what will happen to the land? In other words, what is the city's end goal in redeveloping the property? Wouldn't they spend a bunch of money to tear down the building, prepare the property for sale and then give it to some developer? What if some investor were to approach the city about buying the SASCO building as it is now? Couldn't that investor get historic preservation grants to make improvements to the building that would allow SASCO to stay where it is? Has anyone ever thought about trying to buy the building? I don't have the money and I don't understand the mechanics of getting grants, but I do know this kind of thing happens regularly. I'm thinking maybe if it is talked up amongst the Studebaker membership someone will step forward. Just thinking outloud.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

DEEPNHOCK
06-27-2007, 08:51 PM
Just ask Warshawski's about JC Whitney (You have to be from Chicago to understand that, especially when standing on that one corner on Wabash (iirc)..
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by curt

It is better to save some parts than have the entire stock burn. This is a bummer to have such a great part dept closed up.. Would J C Whitney have any way to take over the parts if it came to part loss at the dump?

DEEPNHOCK
06-27-2007, 08:51 PM
Just ask Warshawski's about JC Whitney (You have to be from Chicago to understand that, especially when standing on that one corner on Wabash (iirc)..
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by curt

It is better to save some parts than have the entire stock burn. This is a bummer to have such a great part dept closed up.. Would J C Whitney have any way to take over the parts if it came to part loss at the dump?

A1956GoldenHawk
06-27-2007, 09:03 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
(BTW, this is in contrast to the Administration Building which IS attractive and on a main street).


(BTW, the South Bend Center for the Homeless is a block from the Administration Building and some say IS attractive and on a main street too):D

The way things have been going under the current mayor, all that will be left in South Bend will be new "Government" occupied buildings, the best homeless center in the mid-west and the St. Joseph River...ooops wait...late breaking news...the Mayor has announced his plans for the River too![:0]NO KIDDING!! Even SOUTH BEND TV (WSBT) and their radio stations are moving to Mishawaka plus the South Bend hospital where I was born is now moving to Mishawaka too. Gee...maybe I'll need to get an 'updated' birth certificate to reflect a "change of city"[?]:D

A1956GoldenHawk
06-27-2007, 09:03 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
(BTW, this is in contrast to the Administration Building which IS attractive and on a main street).


(BTW, the South Bend Center for the Homeless is a block from the Administration Building and some say IS attractive and on a main street too):D

The way things have been going under the current mayor, all that will be left in South Bend will be new "Government" occupied buildings, the best homeless center in the mid-west and the St. Joseph River...ooops wait...late breaking news...the Mayor has announced his plans for the River too![:0]NO KIDDING!! Even SOUTH BEND TV (WSBT) and their radio stations are moving to Mishawaka plus the South Bend hospital where I was born is now moving to Mishawaka too. Gee...maybe I'll need to get an 'updated' birth certificate to reflect a "change of city"[?]:D

DEEPNHOCK
06-27-2007, 09:10 PM
But Wally...
In effect, by buying parts (at a profit to the owner)... You are doing just that. The owner of the parts takes the profit from the sale of the parts, pays the bank, pays the landlord, pays the staff, pays the insurance, and makes capitol improvements (or inventory purchases) and repeats the cycle. Hopefully making enough to provide for his own financial interests. If the current owner says he cannot make enough to satisfy any and all of those obligations, then how is it an outside investor is going to do any better? Sure, an influx of new outside money will allow some changes, bur 'splain to me where the fundamental process will change to the point of sustaining itself. You get up a group of investors that take control of the inventory. OK, now what. How are you going to repay those new investors? It would take all the new money to pay off the bank loan on the inventory (swag)... Now you have to go beg, or borrow a building. Hasn't that already been done? Twice? And that house is coming down and you're getting tossed out. So you have to find a new home. Where's that money going to come from? More investor money? Now you have to move it all. More investor money. Now you have to manage the inventory and run the store. More investor money. And all of this for a stagnant, dwindling, non-repleneshing inventory of out of date material. The cost of replicating any single part is not realistic because the marketplace will not pay for the existing stuff now.
I am not poo-poo'ing the idea, but c'mon. Dennis has been losing sleep with scenario's like this for years. The parts are the parts. If they were easily sold, it would have been done by now. The angst shown here is noteworthy. The desire is real.
The business sanity is questionable.
I just hope Dennis comes out all right.
He's the one who put his money up (even if borrowed...it has his name on the loan) and gave it a good ol' college try worthy of the Gipper...
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by wally

It sounds to me as if there isn't an individual investor waiting in the wings to provide a bailout, at this point. The building is old, but still very useable if deferred maintainance issues are attended to. The logical solution(though not necessarily a painless & cheap one)is for a collective like the SDC to buy it lock, stock, and barrel, secure financing to upgrade the building, and continue to market the inventory. And then, I'm just guessing that Denis might be able to continue to manage the operation for awhile. Yes, anyone can come up with yeah, buts..... In reality, Positive ideas make all the difference. Where there is a Will, there is a way. :)

DEEPNHOCK
06-27-2007, 09:10 PM
But Wally...
In effect, by buying parts (at a profit to the owner)... You are doing just that. The owner of the parts takes the profit from the sale of the parts, pays the bank, pays the landlord, pays the staff, pays the insurance, and makes capitol improvements (or inventory purchases) and repeats the cycle. Hopefully making enough to provide for his own financial interests. If the current owner says he cannot make enough to satisfy any and all of those obligations, then how is it an outside investor is going to do any better? Sure, an influx of new outside money will allow some changes, bur 'splain to me where the fundamental process will change to the point of sustaining itself. You get up a group of investors that take control of the inventory. OK, now what. How are you going to repay those new investors? It would take all the new money to pay off the bank loan on the inventory (swag)... Now you have to go beg, or borrow a building. Hasn't that already been done? Twice? And that house is coming down and you're getting tossed out. So you have to find a new home. Where's that money going to come from? More investor money? Now you have to move it all. More investor money. Now you have to manage the inventory and run the store. More investor money. And all of this for a stagnant, dwindling, non-repleneshing inventory of out of date material. The cost of replicating any single part is not realistic because the marketplace will not pay for the existing stuff now.
I am not poo-poo'ing the idea, but c'mon. Dennis has been losing sleep with scenario's like this for years. The parts are the parts. If they were easily sold, it would have been done by now. The angst shown here is noteworthy. The desire is real.
The business sanity is questionable.
I just hope Dennis comes out all right.
He's the one who put his money up (even if borrowed...it has his name on the loan) and gave it a good ol' college try worthy of the Gipper...
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by wally

It sounds to me as if there isn't an individual investor waiting in the wings to provide a bailout, at this point. The building is old, but still very useable if deferred maintainance issues are attended to. The logical solution(though not necessarily a painless & cheap one)is for a collective like the SDC to buy it lock, stock, and barrel, secure financing to upgrade the building, and continue to market the inventory. And then, I'm just guessing that Denis might be able to continue to manage the operation for awhile. Yes, anyone can come up with yeah, buts..... In reality, Positive ideas make all the difference. Where there is a Will, there is a way. :)

bams50
06-27-2007, 09:22 PM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

[navy][b] And all of this for a stagnant, dwindling, non-repleneshing inventory of out of date material. The cost of replicating any single part is not realistic because the marketplace will not pay for the existing stuff now.


Right on- this is the essence of the problem. Exactly why the usual, easy to understand business procedures can't apply.

Combine that with trying to figure out preservation of said inventory, and you have the reason for this discussion in a nutshell.

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-27-2007, 09:22 PM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

[navy][b] And all of this for a stagnant, dwindling, non-repleneshing inventory of out of date material. The cost of replicating any single part is not realistic because the marketplace will not pay for the existing stuff now.


Right on- this is the essence of the problem. Exactly why the usual, easy to understand business procedures can't apply.

Combine that with trying to figure out preservation of said inventory, and you have the reason for this discussion in a nutshell.

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

A1956GoldenHawk
06-27-2007, 09:43 PM
quote:Originally posted by GTtim

If the building that SASCO is in is torn down, what will happen to the land?

Glad you asked:D Would you believe the NEW Central Police Station, what else would you build across the street from the Jail[?]:D And then the South Bend Street Dept. could utilize the entire complex they currently share with the Police Dept. Hey, no one said our Mayor was dumb...he's just Anti-Studebaker, that's all:D

A1956GoldenHawk
06-27-2007, 09:43 PM
quote:Originally posted by GTtim

If the building that SASCO is in is torn down, what will happen to the land?

Glad you asked:D Would you believe the NEW Central Police Station, what else would you build across the street from the Jail[?]:D And then the South Bend Street Dept. could utilize the entire complex they currently share with the Police Dept. Hey, no one said our Mayor was dumb...he's just Anti-Studebaker, that's all:D

wally
06-27-2007, 09:44 PM
Deepnhock, don't want to offend anyone, but a critical examination of the issue is in order. Has SASCo Management allowed you to look over a thorough accounting of their business? Honestly, I haven't, but it is obvious that there is a thriving industry of various other vendors of Stude and non-Stude parts making it in business, and some of them are not exactly in a low-rent district in the Rustbelt. Good business people can make it work, when others fail. One thing that would help put things in perspective for those who feel that the SDC should acquire the inventory and keep it where it is, is some openess about the past and present sales volume of SASCO, and the marketable content of the inventory.

wally
06-27-2007, 09:44 PM
Deepnhock, don't want to offend anyone, but a critical examination of the issue is in order. Has SASCo Management allowed you to look over a thorough accounting of their business? Honestly, I haven't, but it is obvious that there is a thriving industry of various other vendors of Stude and non-Stude parts making it in business, and some of them are not exactly in a low-rent district in the Rustbelt. Good business people can make it work, when others fail. One thing that would help put things in perspective for those who feel that the SDC should acquire the inventory and keep it where it is, is some openess about the past and present sales volume of SASCO, and the marketable content of the inventory.

DEEPNHOCK
06-27-2007, 09:52 PM
Well said! And with brevity;)
That is the essence of the task at hand.
How do we 'save' the parts when they are owned by someone else and their fate is not in our hands?
How do the parts get dispensed when that control is obtained?
(oh wait, that's three steps down the road[:0])
Which is best for the parts?
Help the current custodian, or help the salvage crew after the battle has been lost?
Tough call...
Sounds just like the nightly news..
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by bams50
Right on- this is the essence of the problem. Exactly why the usual, easy to understand business procedures can't apply.
Combine that with trying to figure out preservation of said inventory, and you have the reason for this discussion in a nutshell.




quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

[navy][b] And all of this for a stagnant, dwindling, non-repleneshing inventory of out of date material. The cost of replicating any single part is not realistic because the marketplace will not pay for the existing stuff now.

DEEPNHOCK
06-27-2007, 09:52 PM
Well said! And with brevity;)
That is the essence of the task at hand.
How do we 'save' the parts when they are owned by someone else and their fate is not in our hands?
How do the parts get dispensed when that control is obtained?
(oh wait, that's three steps down the road[:0])
Which is best for the parts?
Help the current custodian, or help the salvage crew after the battle has been lost?
Tough call...
Sounds just like the nightly news..
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by bams50
Right on- this is the essence of the problem. Exactly why the usual, easy to understand business procedures can't apply.
Combine that with trying to figure out preservation of said inventory, and you have the reason for this discussion in a nutshell.




quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

[navy][b] And all of this for a stagnant, dwindling, non-repleneshing inventory of out of date material. The cost of replicating any single part is not realistic because the marketplace will not pay for the existing stuff now.

JDP
06-27-2007, 09:57 PM
Wally none of the other vendors are servicing a million dollar debt secured by tons of slow moving parts. i.e. I sell a set of seat covers and I pick up the phone and order them at a discount. Even the guys reproducing parts may lay out say 10-20K and get a return on their investment in a few years. Dennis is paying his bills, but can;t afford 100K sprinkler upgrade for example. If and when the load is paid off, he can start ordering parts to be remade and doll up his business.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
06-27-2007, 09:57 PM
Wally none of the other vendors are servicing a million dollar debt secured by tons of slow moving parts. i.e. I sell a set of seat covers and I pick up the phone and order them at a discount. Even the guys reproducing parts may lay out say 10-20K and get a return on their investment in a few years. Dennis is paying his bills, but can;t afford 100K sprinkler upgrade for example. If and when the load is paid off, he can start ordering parts to be remade and doll up his business.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

wally
06-27-2007, 10:10 PM
Sounds like that factor(debt) is the 800 # Gorilla in the room, isn't it, Deepehock & JDP? That, and the fact that there is little consensus here about HOW to actually solve the dilemma. Well, I previously stated what my ideal solution was, but now I'll make a prediction(kind of like guessing the total pop of Tulsa, and the condition of the Belvie)--Sasco will keep its' doors open for awhile longer, then the choicest parts will be sold outright or auctioned to various other vendors. The remaining stuff will be scrapped, and the building razed. With that in mind, I plan to govern myself accordingly. :([:0]

wally
06-27-2007, 10:10 PM
Sounds like that factor(debt) is the 800 # Gorilla in the room, isn't it, Deepehock & JDP? That, and the fact that there is little consensus here about HOW to actually solve the dilemma. Well, I previously stated what my ideal solution was, but now I'll make a prediction(kind of like guessing the total pop of Tulsa, and the condition of the Belvie)--Sasco will keep its' doors open for awhile longer, then the choicest parts will be sold outright or auctioned to various other vendors. The remaining stuff will be scrapped, and the building razed. With that in mind, I plan to govern myself accordingly. :([:0]

JDP
06-27-2007, 10:35 PM
The best hope is the city will compromise on the sprinkler upgrade. The building is only occupied by 3 employees during the day, occasionally a walk in customer. If a fire starts in the evening, no need to risk lives to fight it, nothing close enough to be be threatened, just spray some water on it from the street and let her go. The existing sprinklers probably would have come on had not Dennis decided to fight the fire with all the extinguishers in the building and kept the heat down.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
06-27-2007, 10:35 PM
The best hope is the city will compromise on the sprinkler upgrade. The building is only occupied by 3 employees during the day, occasionally a walk in customer. If a fire starts in the evening, no need to risk lives to fight it, nothing close enough to be be threatened, just spray some water on it from the street and let her go. The existing sprinklers probably would have come on had not Dennis decided to fight the fire with all the extinguishers in the building and kept the heat down.

JDP/Maryland
66 Sports sedan
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 Daytona R2
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Gt Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

A1956GoldenHawk
06-28-2007, 01:10 AM
quote:Originally posted by wally

Sounds like that factor(debt) is the 800 # Gorilla in the room, isn't it, Deepehock & JDP?

Iím only going to go over this one more time then Iím off this topic for good because you all must be tired of reading it ...and Iím sure getting tired of typing it!

The ONLY hope for long-er term survival of SASCO is to affect a change in the current anti-Studebaker South Bend city administration by helping elect a NEW Mayor on November 6th! Letís put any differences like Red vs. Blue, Pro-life vs. Pro-choice, Pro-this vs. Anti-that aside for a moment and just think purely S-T-U-D-E-B-A-K-E-R!!!

Maybe 0% of you reading this can actually help "vote" the Mayor out of office, but for darn sure 100% of you can help his opponent win the election in other ways.

If one thinks the lender has an 800# gorilla, wait until you see the whole Zoo full of 800# gorillas the Mayor can unleash on SASCO such as the:

Health Dept.
Code Enforcement
Zoning Commission
Building Dept.
Water Works Dept.
Bureau of Sewers
Ordinance Violation Bureau
Public Works Board
Bureau of Streets
Etc., etc., etc.

And ...IF ...SASCO is still breathing after being visited by all those gorillas, the Mayor could call in the really big 1,800 # gorillas like; IOHSA, EPA, and of course the local Court system. That same Court system that issued the order that effectively drove the final stake in the Newman & Altman/Standard Surplus coffin.

Like its been said many times before; "You can't fight City Hall" ...but now for the first time since STUDEBAKER was building cars in South Bend, the challenger for the office of the Mayor of South Bend has a REAL chance of winning ...and the current Mayor knows that all too well![:0]

Donít know about you, but Iím going to contact the challenger at http://www.votemanigault.com/ and find out if he is Pro-STUDEBAKER or Anti-STUDEBAKER and if I like[^] what he has to say...Iím going to dig deep in my pockets to get him some campaign money!!!

OK, roger, over & out ...color me gone!!!:D

A1956GoldenHawk
06-28-2007, 01:10 AM
quote:Originally posted by wally

Sounds like that factor(debt) is the 800 # Gorilla in the room, isn't it, Deepehock & JDP?

Iím only going to go over this one more time then Iím off this topic for good because you all must be tired of reading it ...and Iím sure getting tired of typing it!

The ONLY hope for long-er term survival of SASCO is to affect a change in the current anti-Studebaker South Bend city administration by helping elect a NEW Mayor on November 6th! Letís put any differences like Red vs. Blue, Pro-life vs. Pro-choice, Pro-this vs. Anti-that aside for a moment and just think purely S-T-U-D-E-B-A-K-E-R!!!

Maybe 0% of you reading this can actually help "vote" the Mayor out of office, but for darn sure 100% of you can help his opponent win the election in other ways.

If one thinks the lender has an 800# gorilla, wait until you see the whole Zoo full of 800# gorillas the Mayor can unleash on SASCO such as the:

Health Dept.
Code Enforcement
Zoning Commission
Building Dept.
Water Works Dept.
Bureau of Sewers
Ordinance Violation Bureau
Public Works Board
Bureau of Streets
Etc., etc., etc.

And ...IF ...SASCO is still breathing after being visited by all those gorillas, the Mayor could call in the really big 1,800 # gorillas like; IOHSA, EPA, and of course the local Court system. That same Court system that issued the order that effectively drove the final stake in the Newman & Altman/Standard Surplus coffin.

Like its been said many times before; "You can't fight City Hall" ...but now for the first time since STUDEBAKER was building cars in South Bend, the challenger for the office of the Mayor of South Bend has a REAL chance of winning ...and the current Mayor knows that all too well![:0]

Donít know about you, but Iím going to contact the challenger at http://www.votemanigault.com/ and find out if he is Pro-STUDEBAKER or Anti-STUDEBAKER and if I like[^] what he has to say...Iím going to dig deep in my pockets to get him some campaign money!!!

OK, roger, over & out ...color me gone!!!:D

DEEPNHOCK
06-28-2007, 07:25 AM
Being careful to not drift off topic...
I do wish Dennis the best in his struggle.
Where would the hundred bucks be best spent?
Dennis, or a campaign slush fund?
An 800# gorilla that is motivated, concerned, caring, and responsive is one thing.
An 800# gorilla that is disconnected from his constituants and has an outside agenda is another thing altogether.[xx(]
Jeff[8D]

(do you believe in numerology? 1961 post's! Same as the year of my Hawk! ... The dumb things Stude guys notice[:p])




quote:Originally posted by A1956GoldenHawk


quote:Originally posted by wally

Sounds like that factor(debt) is the 800 # Gorilla in the room, isn't it, Deepehock & JDP?

Iím only going to go over this one more time then Iím off this topic for good because you all must be tired of reading it ...and Iím sure getting tired of typing it!

The ONLY hope for long-er term survival of SASCO is to affect a change in the current anti-Studebaker South Bend city administration by helping elect a NEW Mayor on November 6th! Letís put any differences like Red vs. Blue, Pro-life vs. Pro-choice, Pro-this vs. Anti-that aside for a moment and just think purely S-T-U-D-E-B-A-K-E-R!!!

Maybe 0% of you reading this can actually help "vote" the Mayor out of office, but for darn sure 100% of you can help his opponent win the election in other ways.

If one thinks the lender has an 800# gorilla, wait until you see the whole Zoo full of 800# gorillas the Mayor can unleash on SASCO such as the:

Health Dept.
Code Enforcement
Zoning Commission
Building Dept.
Water Works Dept.
Bureau of Sewers
Ordinance Violation Bureau
Public Works Board
Bureau of Streets
Etc., etc., etc.

And ...IF ...SASCO is still breathing after being visited by all those gorillas, the Mayor could call in the really big 1,800 # gorillas like; IOHSA, EPA, and of course the local Court system. That same Court system that issued the order that effectively drove the final stake in the Newman & Altman/Standard Surplus coffin.

Like its been said many times before; "You can't fight City Hall" ...but now for the first time since STUDEBAKER was building cars in South Bend, the challenger for the office of the Mayor of South Bend has a REAL chance of winning ...and the current Mayor knows that all too well![:0]

Donít know about you, but Iím going to contact the challenger at http://www.votemanigault.com/ and find out if he is Pro-STUDEBAKER or Anti-STUDEBAKER and if I like[^] what he has to say...Iím going to dig deep in my pockets to get him some campaign money!!!

OK, roger, over & out ...color me gone!!!:D

DEEPNHOCK
06-28-2007, 07:25 AM
Being careful to not drift off topic...
I do wish Dennis the best in his struggle.
Where would the hundred bucks be best spent?
Dennis, or a campaign slush fund?
An 800# gorilla that is motivated, concerned, caring, and responsive is one thing.
An 800# gorilla that is disconnected from his constituants and has an outside agenda is another thing altogether.[xx(]
Jeff[8D]

(do you believe in numerology? 1961 post's! Same as the year of my Hawk! ... The dumb things Stude guys notice[:p])




quote:Originally posted by A1956GoldenHawk


quote:Originally posted by wally

Sounds like that factor(debt) is the 800 # Gorilla in the room, isn't it, Deepehock & JDP?

Iím only going to go over this one more time then Iím off this topic for good because you all must be tired of reading it ...and Iím sure getting tired of typing it!

The ONLY hope for long-er term survival of SASCO is to affect a change in the current anti-Studebaker South Bend city administration by helping elect a NEW Mayor on November 6th! Letís put any differences like Red vs. Blue, Pro-life vs. Pro-choice, Pro-this vs. Anti-that aside for a moment and just think purely S-T-U-D-E-B-A-K-E-R!!!

Maybe 0% of you reading this can actually help "vote" the Mayor out of office, but for darn sure 100% of you can help his opponent win the election in other ways.

If one thinks the lender has an 800# gorilla, wait until you see the whole Zoo full of 800# gorillas the Mayor can unleash on SASCO such as the:

Health Dept.
Code Enforcement
Zoning Commission
Building Dept.
Water Works Dept.
Bureau of Sewers
Ordinance Violation Bureau
Public Works Board
Bureau of Streets
Etc., etc., etc.

And ...IF ...SASCO is still breathing after being visited by all those gorillas, the Mayor could call in the really big 1,800 # gorillas like; IOHSA, EPA, and of course the local Court system. That same Court system that issued the order that effectively drove the final stake in the Newman & Altman/Standard Surplus coffin.

Like its been said many times before; "You can't fight City Hall" ...but now for the first time since STUDEBAKER was building cars in South Bend, the challenger for the office of the Mayor of South Bend has a REAL chance of winning ...and the current Mayor knows that all too well![:0]

Donít know about you, but Iím going to contact the challenger at http://www.votemanigault.com/ and find out if he is Pro-STUDEBAKER or Anti-STUDEBAKER and if I like[^] what he has to say...Iím going to dig deep in my pockets to get him some campaign money!!!

OK, roger, over & out ...color me gone!!!:D

Skip Lackie
06-28-2007, 07:59 AM
quote:Originally posted by A1956GoldenHawk

Iím only going to go over this one more time then Iím off this topic for good because you all must be tired of reading it ...and Iím sure getting tired of typing it!

The ONLY hope for long-er term survival of SASCO is to affect a change in the current anti-Studebaker South Bend city administration by helping elect a NEW Mayor on November 6th! Letís put any differences like Red vs. Blue, Pro-life vs. Pro-choice, Pro-this vs. Anti-that aside for a moment and just think purely S-T-U-D-E-B-A-K-E-R!!!

Maybe 0% of you reading this can actually help "vote" the Mayor out of office, but for darn sure 100% of you can help his opponent win the election in other ways.

If one thinks the lender has an 800# gorilla, wait until you see the whole Zoo full of 800# gorillas the Mayor can unleash on SASCO such as the:

Health Dept.
Code Enforcement
Zoning Commission
Building Dept.
Water Works Dept.
Bureau of Sewers
Ordinance Violation Bureau
Public Works Board
Bureau of Streets
Etc., etc., etc.

And ...IF ...SASCO is still breathing after being visited by all those gorillas, the Mayor could call in the really big 1,800 # gorillas like; IOHSA, EPA, and of course the local Court system. That same Court system that issued the order that effectively drove the final stake in the Newman & Altman/Standard Surplus coffin.

Like its been said many times before; "You can't fight City Hall" ...but now for the first time since STUDEBAKER was building cars in South Bend, the challenger for the office of the Mayor of South Bend has a REAL chance of winning ...and the current Mayor knows that all too well![:0]

Donít know about you, but Iím going to contact the challenger at http://www.votemanigault.com/ and find out if he is Pro-STUDEBAKER or Anti-STUDEBAKER and if I like[^] what he has to say...Iím going to dig deep in my pockets to get him some campaign money!!!

OK, roger, over & out ...color me gone!!!:D



I am not a resident of South Bend and am ignorant of its local politics. A56GH lives there and may very well be 100% right. What I have learned from many years of living in DC is that all politicians are just thugs in nice clothes. They will respond to pressure from infuential citizens or well-endowed (financially!) contributors. Politicians always know which way the wind is blowing.

What I had suggested back in my original post in this thread (it seems like years since I wrote it) was that we could use the museum, the local Chamber of Commerce, and/or SDC's threat to never come back to SB for a meet to influence the city's actions WRT the SASCO building. And both the museum board and the CofC could exercise influence over the bank holding the notes. If a non-profit like the museum owned the parts inventory, any part of the loan that the bank forgave would be a tax-deductable donation.

As noted above, I have tried to focus on the contents of the parts depot itself, and by necessity, the building in which they are currently housed. All things considered, I thought that Stude owners would be better served (lower prices, better availability, more competition) if the stuff stayed where it was instead of being dispersed. At his suggestion, I have left Dennis out of the discussion except to the degree that he is the current manager. No matter what happens, I don't see him walking away a millionaire.

We don't know how many bucks it will take to satisfy the city and bring the building up to code. If it were a relatively modest sum (say around $50K), it's possible that a combination of SASCO and contributor money could get the job done. That might be enough to buy enough time (several years) to either come up with a better plan or conduct an orderly sell-down. It might even be enough to make the building weather-proof

Skip Lackie
06-28-2007, 07:59 AM
quote:Originally posted by A1956GoldenHawk

Iím only going to go over this one more time then Iím off this topic for good because you all must be tired of reading it ...and Iím sure getting tired of typing it!

The ONLY hope for long-er term survival of SASCO is to affect a change in the current anti-Studebaker South Bend city administration by helping elect a NEW Mayor on November 6th! Letís put any differences like Red vs. Blue, Pro-life vs. Pro-choice, Pro-this vs. Anti-that aside for a moment and just think purely S-T-U-D-E-B-A-K-E-R!!!

Maybe 0% of you reading this can actually help "vote" the Mayor out of office, but for darn sure 100% of you can help his opponent win the election in other ways.

If one thinks the lender has an 800# gorilla, wait until you see the whole Zoo full of 800# gorillas the Mayor can unleash on SASCO such as the:

Health Dept.
Code Enforcement
Zoning Commission
Building Dept.
Water Works Dept.
Bureau of Sewers
Ordinance Violation Bureau
Public Works Board
Bureau of Streets
Etc., etc., etc.

And ...IF ...SASCO is still breathing after being visited by all those gorillas, the Mayor could call in the really big 1,800 # gorillas like; IOHSA, EPA, and of course the local Court system. That same Court system that issued the order that effectively drove the final stake in the Newman & Altman/Standard Surplus coffin.

Like its been said many times before; "You can't fight City Hall" ...but now for the first time since STUDEBAKER was building cars in South Bend, the challenger for the office of the Mayor of South Bend has a REAL chance of winning ...and the current Mayor knows that all too well![:0]

Donít know about you, but Iím going to contact the challenger at http://www.votemanigault.com/ and find out if he is Pro-STUDEBAKER or Anti-STUDEBAKER and if I like[^] what he has to say...Iím going to dig deep in my pockets to get him some campaign money!!!

OK, roger, over & out ...color me gone!!!:D



I am not a resident of South Bend and am ignorant of its local politics. A56GH lives there and may very well be 100% right. What I have learned from many years of living in DC is that all politicians are just thugs in nice clothes. They will respond to pressure from infuential citizens or well-endowed (financially!) contributors. Politicians always know which way the wind is blowing.

What I had suggested back in my original post in this thread (it seems like years since I wrote it) was that we could use the museum, the local Chamber of Commerce, and/or SDC's threat to never come back to SB for a meet to influence the city's actions WRT the SASCO building. And both the museum board and the CofC could exercise influence over the bank holding the notes. If a non-profit like the museum owned the parts inventory, any part of the loan that the bank forgave would be a tax-deductable donation.

As noted above, I have tried to focus on the contents of the parts depot itself, and by necessity, the building in which they are currently housed. All things considered, I thought that Stude owners would be better served (lower prices, better availability, more competition) if the stuff stayed where it was instead of being dispersed. At his suggestion, I have left Dennis out of the discussion except to the degree that he is the current manager. No matter what happens, I don't see him walking away a millionaire.

We don't know how many bucks it will take to satisfy the city and bring the building up to code. If it were a relatively modest sum (say around $50K), it's possible that a combination of SASCO and contributor money could get the job done. That might be enough to buy enough time (several years) to either come up with a better plan or conduct an orderly sell-down. It might even be enough to make the building weather-proof

9snickers
06-28-2007, 08:27 AM
Do I have this information right? This building is currently owned by the City of South Bend and Sasco is just renting it? If that is the case I sure would not be picking on the Mayor or the City of South Bend because this building is in need of some major repair. I sit on the City commission in a small town in the Midwest, I think that instead of trying to pick on the City or it's Mayor most of us should be thanking them for allowing this business to operate in this building and until now only after a fire they are asking a simple thing of updating the fire system, $55,000 is not a lot of money now days even for a small business. I have been in this building several times a years for the past 5 years or so and I am very surprised that this is all that the City is requiring. Do you realize the liability that the City is taking with even letting people enter this building? The floors are soft and gone in some areas, I have not seen much work done in the last 5 years to even try to make at least the entry and small show room area brought up to any kind of standards, A coat of paint and some updated lighting, some straightening up and alittle tender loving care could go a long ways and would cost very little. The Mayor is putting a huge liability on the people of South Bend right now by letting this City owned building be used as it currently stands. Lawyers go after the deepest pockets and the City is it...not Sasco. Sasco has not done much to improve even a small part of the building and I feel with the limited information that I have the City has given them a fair shot. I think some of you are picking on the wrong people here. I truly hope something can be worked out to save Sasco and the building but blasting the City is not the answer. I think the mayor has been very patient and maybe a little foolish for allowing this to go on this long. And to say the City has done nothing to help Studebaker and it's history you better look at the new museum building and the building to the south that is currently being rebuilt for the museum. If South Bend does not take these steps to clean up the City not only Studebaker may be gone but the City of South Bend may be in jeopardy as well because it seems that Misawalka is taking over right now. Ask yourself.. if you did not have the same love for Studebakers as I do would you be proud to step into his building?

Tim

9snickers
06-28-2007, 08:27 AM
Do I have this information right? This building is currently owned by the City of South Bend and Sasco is just renting it? If that is the case I sure would not be picking on the Mayor or the City of South Bend because this building is in need of some major repair. I sit on the City commission in a small town in the Midwest, I think that instead of trying to pick on the City or it's Mayor most of us should be thanking them for allowing this business to operate in this building and until now only after a fire they are asking a simple thing of updating the fire system, $55,000 is not a lot of money now days even for a small business. I have been in this building several times a years for the past 5 years or so and I am very surprised that this is all that the City is requiring. Do you realize the liability that the City is taking with even letting people enter this building? The floors are soft and gone in some areas, I have not seen much work done in the last 5 years to even try to make at least the entry and small show room area brought up to any kind of standards, A coat of paint and some updated lighting, some straightening up and alittle tender loving care could go a long ways and would cost very little. The Mayor is putting a huge liability on the people of South Bend right now by letting this City owned building be used as it currently stands. Lawyers go after the deepest pockets and the City is it...not Sasco. Sasco has not done much to improve even a small part of the building and I feel with the limited information that I have the City has given them a fair shot. I think some of you are picking on the wrong people here. I truly hope something can be worked out to save Sasco and the building but blasting the City is not the answer. I think the mayor has been very patient and maybe a little foolish for allowing this to go on this long. And to say the City has done nothing to help Studebaker and it's history you better look at the new museum building and the building to the south that is currently being rebuilt for the museum. If South Bend does not take these steps to clean up the City not only Studebaker may be gone but the City of South Bend may be in jeopardy as well because it seems that Misawalka is taking over right now. Ask yourself.. if you did not have the same love for Studebakers as I do would you be proud to step into his building?

Tim

Roscomacaw
06-30-2007, 03:25 PM
Things must be slow on the NG again.[8]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
06-30-2007, 03:25 PM
Things must be slow on the NG again.[8]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
06-30-2007, 04:23 PM
I got into South Bend early (for the meet). I ended up spending Saturday actually touring around South Bend a bit. I wasn't looking for reasons to promote it or critisize it at all - just trying to get a sense of what it HAD been and what it now is.
In the course of that day, I had occassion to talk to some non-Stude interested South Bendians and they had little good to say about how the city's doing.
As has been mentioned here, just about everything that doesn't have some connection to or feed from a nipple on the belly of Notre Dame, is moving to adjoining communities. And you cannot deny that the city's more of a ghost town than it was when we were there in '02. What still generates revenue on Main and Michigan streets is food outlets and a few service providers. Heck, even the second hand stores are falling on hard times![8]
The locals I chatted with weren't alumni of Notre Dame, but they weren't stoopid either.[:o)] I'm not gonna type out all the stories they told me, but SASCO's future is a minescule facet of South Bend's woes. That's "minescule" as in teeny tiny.
I DO tend to agree with those here that SB probably considers SASCO's location (building) as a liability waiting to play out. There'd be hell to pay if someone was hurt there and that hell would grow into a snowball that wouldn't melt without lots of dollars.

Seprate from all the argumentation here, I have my own feelings about the building we're discussing. I'm glad the Admin bldg. looks safe at the moment. There's no doubt that it was the "bridge" of the ship that once was Studebaker. But if you look at SO MANY of the factory photographs we have to refer to or muse over regarding things that came to be or things that might have been - there's those unmistakeable multi-paned windows of the engineering building's courtyards for a backdrop. For me - THIS is where the legends and myths germinated. This one very special building is the spawing bed of all that we hold dear as Studebaker faithful!
This building is where artistry, innovation and craftsmanship inseminated one another and gave birth to truly different and superior machines.
These VERY panes of glass reverberated with the voices of engineers we hold god-like today. They probably resonated to the voice of Stanwood Sparrow as he commented when the first Stude V8 shook to life. Otis Romine, Bob Bourke, Loewy and many others strode thru the halls and conferred with technicians on both sides of these windows as they worked to perfect the artworks we gush over today.

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2007/6/30/Engbld.jpg

SASCO may fade - the parts may well face an uncertain destiny - the city may well find itself to be a quaint "college town" when it's all said and done. But this crumbling artifact will no longer even house the ghosts of genius once it succumbs to it's wrinkled face.

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2007/6/30/Engbldg2.jpg

Thursday found me in Dearborn Michigan - touring the fabulous collection of artifacts that make up the Henry Ford/Greenfield Museum complex. I'll reveal to you that I was weepey eyed as I strode across the front porch of the Wright brothers home and took stock of it's "turn-of-the-century" (the LAST century!) furnishings. Then I toured the very bicycle shop where they developed ideas, tested them, and subsequently would proceed to build the first viable airplane.

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2007/6/30/cycleshop.jpg

I had to wipe the tears from these sentimental old peepers of mine. That's just the sorta guy I am about some things. Especially things that I'm so enthusiastic about, and like Studes, I have always been fascinated by the history of aviation and the visionaries that kept pushing it forward.
Flying home on Friday, I was sipping coffee at 32,000 feet and comfortably enjoying the view below when I remembered that 24 hours before I stood on the Wright's front porch.
So, Admin building - pretty - it stays. Virtual WOMB of all we love - messy

Roscomacaw
06-30-2007, 04:23 PM
I got into South Bend early (for the meet). I ended up spending Saturday actually touring around South Bend a bit. I wasn't looking for reasons to promote it or critisize it at all - just trying to get a sense of what it HAD been and what it now is.
In the course of that day, I had occassion to talk to some non-Stude interested South Bendians and they had little good to say about how the city's doing.
As has been mentioned here, just about everything that doesn't have some connection to or feed from a nipple on the belly of Notre Dame, is moving to adjoining communities. And you cannot deny that the city's more of a ghost town than it was when we were there in '02. What still generates revenue on Main and Michigan streets is food outlets and a few service providers. Heck, even the second hand stores are falling on hard times![8]
The locals I chatted with weren't alumni of Notre Dame, but they weren't stoopid either.[:o)] I'm not gonna type out all the stories they told me, but SASCO's future is a minescule facet of South Bend's woes. That's "minescule" as in teeny tiny.
I DO tend to agree with those here that SB probably considers SASCO's location (building) as a liability waiting to play out. There'd be hell to pay if someone was hurt there and that hell would grow into a snowball that wouldn't melt without lots of dollars.

Seprate from all the argumentation here, I have my own feelings about the building we're discussing. I'm glad the Admin bldg. looks safe at the moment. There's no doubt that it was the "bridge" of the ship that once was Studebaker. But if you look at SO MANY of the factory photographs we have to refer to or muse over regarding things that came to be or things that might have been - there's those unmistakeable multi-paned windows of the engineering building's courtyards for a backdrop. For me - THIS is where the legends and myths germinated. This one very special building is the spawing bed of all that we hold dear as Studebaker faithful!
This building is where artistry, innovation and craftsmanship inseminated one another and gave birth to truly different and superior machines.
These VERY panes of glass reverberated with the voices of engineers we hold god-like today. They probably resonated to the voice of Stanwood Sparrow as he commented when the first Stude V8 shook to life. Otis Romine, Bob Bourke, Loewy and many others strode thru the halls and conferred with technicians on both sides of these windows as they worked to perfect the artworks we gush over today.

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2007/6/30/Engbld.jpg

SASCO may fade - the parts may well face an uncertain destiny - the city may well find itself to be a quaint "college town" when it's all said and done. But this crumbling artifact will no longer even house the ghosts of genius once it succumbs to it's wrinkled face.

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2007/6/30/Engbldg2.jpg

Thursday found me in Dearborn Michigan - touring the fabulous collection of artifacts that make up the Henry Ford/Greenfield Museum complex. I'll reveal to you that I was weepey eyed as I strode across the front porch of the Wright brothers home and took stock of it's "turn-of-the-century" (the LAST century!) furnishings. Then I toured the very bicycle shop where they developed ideas, tested them, and subsequently would proceed to build the first viable airplane.

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2007/6/30/cycleshop.jpg

I had to wipe the tears from these sentimental old peepers of mine. That's just the sorta guy I am about some things. Especially things that I'm so enthusiastic about, and like Studes, I have always been fascinated by the history of aviation and the visionaries that kept pushing it forward.
Flying home on Friday, I was sipping coffee at 32,000 feet and comfortably enjoying the view below when I remembered that 24 hours before I stood on the Wright's front porch.
So, Admin building - pretty - it stays. Virtual WOMB of all we love - messy

BobPalma
06-30-2007, 04:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs
As has been mentioned here, just about everything that doesn't have some connection to or feed from a nipple on the belly of Notre Dame, is moving to adjoining communities. And you cannot deny that the city's more of a ghost town than it was when we were there in '02. What still generates revenue on Main and Michigan streets is food outlets and a few service providers. Heck, even the second hand stores are falling on hard times![8]
These VERY panes of glass reverberated with the voices of engineers we hold god-like today. They probably resonated to the voice of Stanwood Sparrow as he commented when the first Stude V8 shook to life.

Bob: 'Interesting observation on the Notre Dame relationship. I hadn't considered it that pronounced, but wouldn't disagree with you, that's for sure. South Bend has always been a lot prouder of the Notre Dame intellectual elite than working-man's industries such as Oliver, Studebaker, et al. :(;)

As to the walls of the Engineering Building reverberating with the sounds of the first Studebaker V-8: Is it a Twilight Zone coincidence that the V-8 was introduced for the 1951 model year, the same year in which Ted Harbit turned 16 years old and was able to drive his father's [u]new, 1951 Commander 4-door sedan with stick overdrive?</u> [:0] Hmmm....:D BP

BobPalma
06-30-2007, 04:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs
As has been mentioned here, just about everything that doesn't have some connection to or feed from a nipple on the belly of Notre Dame, is moving to adjoining communities. And you cannot deny that the city's more of a ghost town than it was when we were there in '02. What still generates revenue on Main and Michigan streets is food outlets and a few service providers. Heck, even the second hand stores are falling on hard times![8]
These VERY panes of glass reverberated with the voices of engineers we hold god-like today. They probably resonated to the voice of Stanwood Sparrow as he commented when the first Stude V8 shook to life.

Bob: 'Interesting observation on the Notre Dame relationship. I hadn't considered it that pronounced, but wouldn't disagree with you, that's for sure. South Bend has always been a lot prouder of the Notre Dame intellectual elite than working-man's industries such as Oliver, Studebaker, et al. :(;)

As to the walls of the Engineering Building reverberating with the sounds of the first Studebaker V-8: Is it a Twilight Zone coincidence that the V-8 was introduced for the 1951 model year, the same year in which Ted Harbit turned 16 years old and was able to drive his father's [u]new, 1951 Commander 4-door sedan with stick overdrive?</u> [:0] Hmmm....:D BP

Roscomacaw
06-30-2007, 05:03 PM
What ya wanna bet ol' Stanwood's as proud of Ted as we are???;)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
06-30-2007, 05:03 PM
What ya wanna bet ol' Stanwood's as proud of Ted as we are???;)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Skip Lackie
07-01-2007, 09:46 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs
As has been mentioned here, just about everything that doesn't have some connection to or feed from a nipple on the belly of Notre Dame, is moving to adjoining communities. And you cannot deny that the city's more of a ghost town than it was when we were there in '02. What still generates revenue on Main and Michigan streets is food outlets and a few service providers. Heck, even the second hand stores are falling on hard times![8]


Bob: 'Interesting observation on the Notre Dame relationship. I hadn't considered it that pronounced, but wouldn't disagree with you, that's for sure. South Bend has always been a lot prouder of the Notre Dame intellectual elite than working-man's industries such as Oliver, Studebaker, et al. :(;)

BP


Bobs:
Both my wife (who had never been to South Bend before) and I (who had not been there for five years) noticed the same thing right away. With Notre Dame students gone for the summer, SB was an absolute ghost town on Sunday afternoon. There was hardly a soul in the downtown, the Century Center, or along the river walk. It perked up a bit during the week, when the locals came back to work in the banks and insurance companies -- and us car nuts filled all the bars and restaurants.

To a substantial degree, Boston's reputation was made by the excellence of its educational institutions. While SB can be proud of Notre Dame, it was not Notre Dame that built SB -- it was manufacturing and armies of blue-collar workers. Yet SB seems embarrassed about that heritage and anxious to bury it. 20 years ago, the Century Center included a museum dedicated to SB's industrial heritage, including Studebaker, Oliver, South Bend Lathe, etc. That is gone now, though Studebaker got its own (outstanding!) museum. Is there anything comparable for all of the other industries that used to call SB home?

Every city needs some sort of local employment center to sustain it. With the demise or departure of all of South Bend's manufacturing, the only thing it has left is Notre Dame. It reminds me of someone who has lost a lot of weight -- their skin seems too big for their body.

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

Skip Lackie
07-01-2007, 09:46 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs
As has been mentioned here, just about everything that doesn't have some connection to or feed from a nipple on the belly of Notre Dame, is moving to adjoining communities. And you cannot deny that the city's more of a ghost town than it was when we were there in '02. What still generates revenue on Main and Michigan streets is food outlets and a few service providers. Heck, even the second hand stores are falling on hard times![8]


Bob: 'Interesting observation on the Notre Dame relationship. I hadn't considered it that pronounced, but wouldn't disagree with you, that's for sure. South Bend has always been a lot prouder of the Notre Dame intellectual elite than working-man's industries such as Oliver, Studebaker, et al. :(;)

BP


Bobs:
Both my wife (who had never been to South Bend before) and I (who had not been there for five years) noticed the same thing right away. With Notre Dame students gone for the summer, SB was an absolute ghost town on Sunday afternoon. There was hardly a soul in the downtown, the Century Center, or along the river walk. It perked up a bit during the week, when the locals came back to work in the banks and insurance companies -- and us car nuts filled all the bars and restaurants.

To a substantial degree, Boston's reputation was made by the excellence of its educational institutions. While SB can be proud of Notre Dame, it was not Notre Dame that built SB -- it was manufacturing and armies of blue-collar workers. Yet SB seems embarrassed about that heritage and anxious to bury it. 20 years ago, the Century Center included a museum dedicated to SB's industrial heritage, including Studebaker, Oliver, South Bend Lathe, etc. That is gone now, though Studebaker got its own (outstanding!) museum. Is there anything comparable for all of the other industries that used to call SB home?

Every city needs some sort of local employment center to sustain it. With the demise or departure of all of South Bend's manufacturing, the only thing it has left is Notre Dame. It reminds me of someone who has lost a lot of weight -- their skin seems too big for their body.

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

hank63
07-01-2007, 09:56 AM
Yes, SASCO is a private business, but that doesn't stop the club from looking at the "What If" situation. If it was my decision, I'd pick 2 or 3 club (board) members, ask 'em to investigate and recommend to the board what the club should/could do IF a problem surfaces. This discussion topic has already produced a large numer of ideas / possibilities, and the investigation could pick whatever ideas are possible to action.
The recommendations should cover (at least) -

1. Assume SASCO is given notice to vacate the building and Dennis is asking for help to save what can be saved.

2. Assume SASCO's tenancy is made difficult/impossible in the medium term by cost and/or regulatory difficulties (eg rent is pushed up, expensive fire safety installations become mandatory, or whatever).

3. Assume Dennis wants to retire or is no longer allowed to continue eg, by his doctor (we're all getting older), or worse still, has an accident.

From the recommendations, the board ought to be able to prepare one or more action plans, ready to activate if/when needed (including how to finance).

/H

hank63
07-01-2007, 09:56 AM
Yes, SASCO is a private business, but that doesn't stop the club from looking at the "What If" situation. If it was my decision, I'd pick 2 or 3 club (board) members, ask 'em to investigate and recommend to the board what the club should/could do IF a problem surfaces. This discussion topic has already produced a large numer of ideas / possibilities, and the investigation could pick whatever ideas are possible to action.
The recommendations should cover (at least) -

1. Assume SASCO is given notice to vacate the building and Dennis is asking for help to save what can be saved.

2. Assume SASCO's tenancy is made difficult/impossible in the medium term by cost and/or regulatory difficulties (eg rent is pushed up, expensive fire safety installations become mandatory, or whatever).

3. Assume Dennis wants to retire or is no longer allowed to continue eg, by his doctor (we're all getting older), or worse still, has an accident.

From the recommendations, the board ought to be able to prepare one or more action plans, ready to activate if/when needed (including how to finance).

/H

bondobilly
07-01-2007, 10:40 AM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

I got into South Bend early (for the meet). I ended up spending Saturday actually touring around South Bend a bit. I wasn't looking for reasons to promote it or critisize it at all - just trying to get a sense of what it HAD been and what it now is.



While a bit off topic it does address the issue. As we kept driving from the fairgrounds back to the hotel, we kept going under the viaduct and passing by South Bend's Union Station. Yes the tracks are still there, and so is the building. When we got home and I reviewed the photos I took, I had a shot of a painting made of the Studebaker factory, and in the lower section of the painting is Union Station. Without any previous knowledge of Studebaker's previous presence in South Bend, if the painting truly reflects the size of the past factory, and it's rellationship with Union Station, I am surprised that South Bend has actaully backed, supported or assisted in anyway with anything Studebaker. Nothing of the plant that once stood along side Union Station stands, the area is as someone stated a homeless shelter and a lot of one story "tax payers".

From my view point the Studebaker complex and it's history is akin to what happened here in Mahwah and in Tarrytown, Ford had a huge plant in Mahwah and GNM had a huge one in Tarrytown. Both are gone, and in both locations there is no mention that "Here once Ford/GM Turned out x amount of cars per day" Nothing, I think South Bend still has not recovered from the loss of it's major industry, and that precludes them from suppporting anything Studebaker.

You mention the Wright Bros. and their shop, the town that it is in actually has some business generated from the history of the Wright Brothers. I saw nothing in my visit to SB that eluded to the past history that was South Bend.

Maybe my vision is myopic, maybe I missed something, but nowhere did I see any businesses utilizing any Studebaker names or logos in their names.

Yes there is the Silver Hawks baseball team, and yes there were some photos in the SB Chocolate Factory of some Studebaker material, but on a whole to me, South Bend wants nothing to do with Studebaker.

So much so, that on the first two nights of TV coverage WSTB-TV on their coverage of the meet showed only rusted out hulks being towed into the farigrounds. The opening shot was the rusted 48 Commander Convertible, some truck loads of parts, and one lonely car sitting in a field.

WSTB's coverage of the parade was more of folks standing on the sidewalks and making remarks than the actual parade of cars.

The "heritage" is gone, a bad taste is still in the mouths of the people of SB.

The museum, as I saw it, could not, cannot live on just the history of Studebaker. The pamphlet I got from the museum shows even that has a new title, "Learning Center" has been added and the day we were there, they were preparing, or had and exhibit going on for the good ole days of TV.

Just an observation and you can start throwing stones.

bondobilly
07-01-2007, 10:40 AM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

I got into South Bend early (for the meet). I ended up spending Saturday actually touring around South Bend a bit. I wasn't looking for reasons to promote it or critisize it at all - just trying to get a sense of what it HAD been and what it now is.



While a bit off topic it does address the issue. As we kept driving from the fairgrounds back to the hotel, we kept going under the viaduct and passing by South Bend's Union Station. Yes the tracks are still there, and so is the building. When we got home and I reviewed the photos I took, I had a shot of a painting made of the Studebaker factory, and in the lower section of the painting is Union Station. Without any previous knowledge of Studebaker's previous presence in South Bend, if the painting truly reflects the size of the past factory, and it's rellationship with Union Station, I am surprised that South Bend has actaully backed, supported or assisted in anyway with anything Studebaker. Nothing of the plant that once stood along side Union Station stands, the area is as someone stated a homeless shelter and a lot of one story "tax payers".

From my view point the Studebaker complex and it's history is akin to what happened here in Mahwah and in Tarrytown, Ford had a huge plant in Mahwah and GNM had a huge one in Tarrytown. Both are gone, and in both locations there is no mention that "Here once Ford/GM Turned out x amount of cars per day" Nothing, I think South Bend still has not recovered from the loss of it's major industry, and that precludes them from suppporting anything Studebaker.

You mention the Wright Bros. and their shop, the town that it is in actually has some business generated from the history of the Wright Brothers. I saw nothing in my visit to SB that eluded to the past history that was South Bend.

Maybe my vision is myopic, maybe I missed something, but nowhere did I see any businesses utilizing any Studebaker names or logos in their names.

Yes there is the Silver Hawks baseball team, and yes there were some photos in the SB Chocolate Factory of some Studebaker material, but on a whole to me, South Bend wants nothing to do with Studebaker.

So much so, that on the first two nights of TV coverage WSTB-TV on their coverage of the meet showed only rusted out hulks being towed into the farigrounds. The opening shot was the rusted 48 Commander Convertible, some truck loads of parts, and one lonely car sitting in a field.

WSTB's coverage of the parade was more of folks standing on the sidewalks and making remarks than the actual parade of cars.

The "heritage" is gone, a bad taste is still in the mouths of the people of SB.

The museum, as I saw it, could not, cannot live on just the history of Studebaker. The pamphlet I got from the museum shows even that has a new title, "Learning Center" has been added and the day we were there, they were preparing, or had and exhibit going on for the good ole days of TV.

Just an observation and you can start throwing stones.

mbstude
07-01-2007, 10:51 AM
quote:Maybe my vision is myopic, maybe I missed something, but nowhere did I see any businesses utilizing any Studebaker names or logos in their names.

A friend of ours was kind enough to give us a very detailed and imformative tour of what remains of Studebaker in South Bend. He even took us to the old Chippewa Plant, and believe it or not, there are NEW Studebaker signs all around the place! At least one company remembers the heritage.

Matthew Burnette
'59 Scotsman
'63 Daytona
Hazlehurst, GA

Cruising the Proving Ground Test Track
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/provingground2.jpg

mbstude
07-01-2007, 10:51 AM
quote:Maybe my vision is myopic, maybe I missed something, but nowhere did I see any businesses utilizing any Studebaker names or logos in their names.

A friend of ours was kind enough to give us a very detailed and imformative tour of what remains of Studebaker in South Bend. He even took us to the old Chippewa Plant, and believe it or not, there are NEW Studebaker signs all around the place! At least one company remembers the heritage.

Matthew Burnette
'59 Scotsman
'63 Daytona
Hazlehurst, GA

Cruising the Proving Ground Test Track
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/provingground2.jpg

bondobilly
07-01-2007, 12:00 PM
quote:Originally posted by mbstude


quote:Maybe my vision is myopic, maybe I missed something, but nowhere did I see any businesses utilizing any Studebaker names or logos in their names.

A friend of ours was kind enough to give us a very detailed and imformative tour of what remains of Studebaker in South Bend. He even took us to the old Chippewa Plant, and believe it or not, there are NEW Studebaker signs all around the place! At least one company remembers the heritage.

[b]Matthew Burnette
'59 Scotsman
'63 Daytona



Like I said, my view might have been myopic. We never ventured off the route from the fairgrounds to the hotel each day, and had no opportunity to see other areas. Had I seen them, then maybe my view would change.

bondobilly
07-01-2007, 12:00 PM
quote:Originally posted by mbstude


quote:Maybe my vision is myopic, maybe I missed something, but nowhere did I see any businesses utilizing any Studebaker names or logos in their names.

A friend of ours was kind enough to give us a very detailed and imformative tour of what remains of Studebaker in South Bend. He even took us to the old Chippewa Plant, and believe it or not, there are NEW Studebaker signs all around the place! At least one company remembers the heritage.

[b]Matthew Burnette
'59 Scotsman
'63 Daytona



Like I said, my view might have been myopic. We never ventured off the route from the fairgrounds to the hotel each day, and had no opportunity to see other areas. Had I seen them, then maybe my view would change.

Roscomacaw
07-01-2007, 04:17 PM
Matthew, I too, visited the Chippewa complex, and while there's some "S" signs there, the place is for sale as well.
I poked around a bit and even went into a couple of buildings that were left unlocked. I kept waiting for someone to challenge me while doing so or while driving around wherever I wanted to on the complex. There wasn't a SOUND! It was errily desolate and deserted.

Later, I did happen upon a little residential street named Lark and I also noticed a fairly new subdivision called Erskine Place.
I noticed a few signs in the downtown area with arrows pointing out the way to the new Stude museum. I wonder if they were just for the visiting faithful or if they're permanent?

Bill, you're right about the town being a ghost town on the weekends. Heh - I stopped in at the Victory Bar just south of downtown for a beer on Saturday. The bartender told me that the town's totally dead after dark unless there's some sorta concert in one particular theater that remains. Heck this bar ain't even open Sundays or much past dark - because there's NO ONE to buy drinks! No one that can afford to anyway! Bartender told me the ONLY reason the place stays open at ALL is as a manuver for it's owner to retain his liquor license!!!
Saturday afternoon in this place - ON Main street - and not a real "dive" in my opinion - and I was the ONLY patron thru two casually consumed draft beers.
I thanked the bartender - a lifelong resident of SB - for his enlightenments and as I was leaving, another patron was coming in to take my place. At least the bartender would have someone to talk to. He had been sitting forlornly on a bar stool, all by his lonesome, before I came in!
Same way with a little eatery I had lunch at that day. On main street again - farther south than the bar, but not by much. Good family style fare and I enjoyed the fried chicken lunch (I get tired of eating at the damned chain restaurants).
There was a couple just leaving as I came in.... and after I finished up and looked at all the cool photographs of old South Bend that decorate the walls.... a family group came in to have a meal. Needless to say, the waitress wasn't overworked! I actually felt sorry for her and left a bigger tip than I normally would!

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
07-01-2007, 04:17 PM
Matthew, I too, visited the Chippewa complex, and while there's some "S" signs there, the place is for sale as well.
I poked around a bit and even went into a couple of buildings that were left unlocked. I kept waiting for someone to challenge me while doing so or while driving around wherever I wanted to on the complex. There wasn't a SOUND! It was errily desolate and deserted.

Later, I did happen upon a little residential street named Lark and I also noticed a fairly new subdivision called Erskine Place.
I noticed a few signs in the downtown area with arrows pointing out the way to the new Stude museum. I wonder if they were just for the visiting faithful or if they're permanent?

Bill, you're right about the town being a ghost town on the weekends. Heh - I stopped in at the Victory Bar just south of downtown for a beer on Saturday. The bartender told me that the town's totally dead after dark unless there's some sorta concert in one particular theater that remains. Heck this bar ain't even open Sundays or much past dark - because there's NO ONE to buy drinks! No one that can afford to anyway! Bartender told me the ONLY reason the place stays open at ALL is as a manuver for it's owner to retain his liquor license!!!
Saturday afternoon in this place - ON Main street - and not a real "dive" in my opinion - and I was the ONLY patron thru two casually consumed draft beers.
I thanked the bartender - a lifelong resident of SB - for his enlightenments and as I was leaving, another patron was coming in to take my place. At least the bartender would have someone to talk to. He had been sitting forlornly on a bar stool, all by his lonesome, before I came in!
Same way with a little eatery I had lunch at that day. On main street again - farther south than the bar, but not by much. Good family style fare and I enjoyed the fried chicken lunch (I get tired of eating at the damned chain restaurants).
There was a couple just leaving as I came in.... and after I finished up and looked at all the cool photographs of old South Bend that decorate the walls.... a family group came in to have a meal. Needless to say, the waitress wasn't overworked! I actually felt sorry for her and left a bigger tip than I normally would!

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

bondobilly
07-01-2007, 04:55 PM
quote:[ I stopped in at the Victory Bar just south of downtown for a beer on Saturday. The bartender told me that the town's totally dead after dark unless there's some sorta concert in one particular theater that remains. Saturday afternoon in this place - ON Main street - and not a real "dive" in my opinion - and I was the ONLY patron thru two casually consumed draft beers.
............ Same way with a little eatery I had lunch at that day. On main street again - farther south than the bar, but not by much. Good family style fare and I enjoyed the fried chicken lunch (I get tired of eating at the damned chain restaurants).
There was a couple just leaving as I came in.... and after I finished up and looked at all the cool photographs of old South Bend that decorate the walls.... a family group came in to have a meal. Needless to say, the waitress wasn't overworked! I actually felt sorry for her and left a bigger tip than I normally would!



Two things I noted with great interest was the "trendy" eateries, and cafes around the Holiday Inn. We ate at a place called the "Vine" and there was a rock group performing around the corner. They had a TV crew and a local radio station covering the event. There was an art gallaery across the street and I went over to look.

We also ate at the Oyster Bar, and I was taken aback by the lack of customers. Just like your experience there were two patrons at the bar, and two guys having dinner, while we ate. The only real activity we saw was at the Colligate Football Hall of Fame. That was a great time. There were four groups of youngsters playing four separate games of some sort of football routines, and there was no "turf war". It was fun to watch some kids between 8-12 years old playing one game and a large group of teenagers playing something else, half the time the little guys were in the middle of the older kids.

What I don't understand is why all the major businesses are not "in" SB per-se. When I needed a new CF card for my camera, all the major chains were "out of town". That is how we were given instructions. Out of Town, which was a 6 to ten minute drive.

BG

bondobilly
07-01-2007, 04:55 PM
quote:[ I stopped in at the Victory Bar just south of downtown for a beer on Saturday. The bartender told me that the town's totally dead after dark unless there's some sorta concert in one particular theater that remains. Saturday afternoon in this place - ON Main street - and not a real "dive" in my opinion - and I was the ONLY patron thru two casually consumed draft beers.
............ Same way with a little eatery I had lunch at that day. On main street again - farther south than the bar, but not by much. Good family style fare and I enjoyed the fried chicken lunch (I get tired of eating at the damned chain restaurants).
There was a couple just leaving as I came in.... and after I finished up and looked at all the cool photographs of old South Bend that decorate the walls.... a family group came in to have a meal. Needless to say, the waitress wasn't overworked! I actually felt sorry for her and left a bigger tip than I normally would!



Two things I noted with great interest was the "trendy" eateries, and cafes around the Holiday Inn. We ate at a place called the "Vine" and there was a rock group performing around the corner. They had a TV crew and a local radio station covering the event. There was an art gallaery across the street and I went over to look.

We also ate at the Oyster Bar, and I was taken aback by the lack of customers. Just like your experience there were two patrons at the bar, and two guys having dinner, while we ate. The only real activity we saw was at the Colligate Football Hall of Fame. That was a great time. There were four groups of youngsters playing four separate games of some sort of football routines, and there was no "turf war". It was fun to watch some kids between 8-12 years old playing one game and a large group of teenagers playing something else, half the time the little guys were in the middle of the older kids.

What I don't understand is why all the major businesses are not "in" SB per-se. When I needed a new CF card for my camera, all the major chains were "out of town". That is how we were given instructions. Out of Town, which was a 6 to ten minute drive.

BG

Roscomacaw
07-01-2007, 05:23 PM
Billy says.... "What I don't understand is why all the major businesses are not "in" SB per-se. When I needed a new CF card for my camera, all the major chains were "out of town". "

LOL! That was my observation too, Bill! Goofy![:o)]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
07-01-2007, 05:23 PM
Billy says.... "What I don't understand is why all the major businesses are not "in" SB per-se. When I needed a new CF card for my camera, all the major chains were "out of town". "

LOL! That was my observation too, Bill! Goofy![:o)]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

showbizkid
07-01-2007, 05:40 PM
It's happened in nearly every American city... the big chains always go to the suburbs, where there's more income per capita, and leave the cities even though there's more population density there.

A couple years ago there was a really big deal in the local paper about Ralph's (Kroger) putting a new store in downtown San Diego. It was the first major grocer to build in the downtown area since the 1960s, and the first major chain to have a presence there since the early 80s. Can you imagine? A city the size of San Diego, without a single supermarket downtown? Cleveland's the same way (but for a different reason; the employees don't want to be shot).


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

showbizkid
07-01-2007, 05:40 PM
It's happened in nearly every American city... the big chains always go to the suburbs, where there's more income per capita, and leave the cities even though there's more population density there.

A couple years ago there was a really big deal in the local paper about Ralph's (Kroger) putting a new store in downtown San Diego. It was the first major grocer to build in the downtown area since the 1960s, and the first major chain to have a presence there since the early 80s. Can you imagine? A city the size of San Diego, without a single supermarket downtown? Cleveland's the same way (but for a different reason; the employees don't want to be shot).


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

glen
07-01-2007, 05:51 PM
I know what you mean Clark....being a native of Sandy Eggo....1960
was when the College Grove Shopping Center opened then a couple of years
later, Grossmont Center opened. The downtown stores, Marstons (Broadway)
Walker Scott (long gone) Stanley Andrews (Sports Chalet)went out to the
"burb's" and the rest is History...it has been the last 15 years or so
that Sandy Eggo has seen the rebirth of it downtown....Which bring us
to why am I in the "Zone"....couldn't afford it any longer.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/glen_05/Daytonalurkinintheshortgrass.jpg
1964 Daytona
glen Brose
Tumbleweed Flats, AZ

glen
07-01-2007, 05:51 PM
I know what you mean Clark....being a native of Sandy Eggo....1960
was when the College Grove Shopping Center opened then a couple of years
later, Grossmont Center opened. The downtown stores, Marstons (Broadway)
Walker Scott (long gone) Stanley Andrews (Sports Chalet)went out to the
"burb's" and the rest is History...it has been the last 15 years or so
that Sandy Eggo has seen the rebirth of it downtown....Which bring us
to why am I in the "Zone"....couldn't afford it any longer.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/glen_05/Daytonalurkinintheshortgrass.jpg
1964 Daytona
glen Brose
Tumbleweed Flats, AZ

Guido
07-01-2007, 05:56 PM
Seriously off topic, but there are not any grocery stores within the boundaries of Atlantic City. Now if I could only throw in the name of the former Studebaker dealer to satisfy Mr. Shaw...

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctorís buggy; Studebaker horse drawn ďIzzerĒ buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Guido
07-01-2007, 05:56 PM
Seriously off topic, but there are not any grocery stores within the boundaries of Atlantic City. Now if I could only throw in the name of the former Studebaker dealer to satisfy Mr. Shaw...

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctorís buggy; Studebaker horse drawn ďIzzerĒ buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

bams50
07-01-2007, 06:09 PM
After the parade Evyn and I wanted to get dinner. We had noted earlier in the week the presence of Quizno's right downtown. Being a fan of their hot subs, we parked and headed over there at about 6:15, only to find they closed at 5:00[}:)] So we continued on, only to find that one after another were already closed- and this with the streets crawling with Stude owners and lookers... only thing open was a couple tavern-type places (Totally packed!) and some chocolate place (mostly for ice cream and weird coffees) that had a couple strange-looking sandwiches, which we passed on...

We decided on room service and went about enjoying the Studes and the people, while debating on the "fun night", which we passed on b/c no one could really give us an idea what it was all about; next thing we knew, it was after room service hours... didn't feel like driving to find something, so went without...

Seemed strange that so many food establishments decided there was no point in extending hours on the night the city would be filled with Studes- and their owners' bellies!:D If there's another meet in SB in the future I'll gladly go- I'll just lay in provisions for dinner downtown ;)

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
07-01-2007, 06:09 PM
After the parade Evyn and I wanted to get dinner. We had noted earlier in the week the presence of Quizno's right downtown. Being a fan of their hot subs, we parked and headed over there at about 6:15, only to find they closed at 5:00[}:)] So we continued on, only to find that one after another were already closed- and this with the streets crawling with Stude owners and lookers... only thing open was a couple tavern-type places (Totally packed!) and some chocolate place (mostly for ice cream and weird coffees) that had a couple strange-looking sandwiches, which we passed on...

We decided on room service and went about enjoying the Studes and the people, while debating on the "fun night", which we passed on b/c no one could really give us an idea what it was all about; next thing we knew, it was after room service hours... didn't feel like driving to find something, so went without...

Seemed strange that so many food establishments decided there was no point in extending hours on the night the city would be filled with Studes- and their owners' bellies!:D If there's another meet in SB in the future I'll gladly go- I'll just lay in provisions for dinner downtown ;)

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

DEEPNHOCK
07-01-2007, 06:56 PM
Right-O....
When I arrive at wherever, I always make sure of a place to sleep, a place to $#.., and a place to eat..
So far, I haven't ever gone 0 for 3 ;)
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by bams50
&lt;snip&gt;
Seemed strange that so many food establishments decided there was no point in extending hours on the night the city would be filled with Studes- and their owners' bellies!:D If there's another meet in SB in the future I'll gladly go- I'll just lay in provisions for dinner downtown ;)

DEEPNHOCK
07-01-2007, 06:56 PM
Right-O....
When I arrive at wherever, I always make sure of a place to sleep, a place to $#.., and a place to eat..
So far, I haven't ever gone 0 for 3 ;)
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by bams50
&lt;snip&gt;
Seemed strange that so many food establishments decided there was no point in extending hours on the night the city would be filled with Studes- and their owners' bellies!:D If there's another meet in SB in the future I'll gladly go- I'll just lay in provisions for dinner downtown ;)

avantilover
07-02-2007, 04:24 AM
I wonder whether SB had a fantasy that Studebaker would "always" be there and made no effort to attract other industries. Maybe they (Studebaker) should have paid more attention to cost and quality control in their factories - great that it was "the friendliest place to work" as I saw in a Studebaker magazine recently, however, if it cost more to buy one than say a Ford with better equipment, you can't blame the customer.

John Clements
Avantilover, your South Australian Studebaker lover!!!
Lockleys South Australia

avantilover
07-02-2007, 04:24 AM
I wonder whether SB had a fantasy that Studebaker would "always" be there and made no effort to attract other industries. Maybe they (Studebaker) should have paid more attention to cost and quality control in their factories - great that it was "the friendliest place to work" as I saw in a Studebaker magazine recently, however, if it cost more to buy one than say a Ford with better equipment, you can't blame the customer.

John Clements
Avantilover, your South Australian Studebaker lover!!!
Lockleys South Australia

Scott
07-02-2007, 08:59 AM
What's a place to $#? That's a new one.

Scott
07-02-2007, 08:59 AM
What's a place to $#? That's a new one.

Swifster
07-02-2007, 09:37 AM
Regarding Bill's comments about the current relationship between Studebaker and South Bend, I would say this. In most peoples eyes, Studebaker is not even in the memory bank. I'm 43, and everyone my age and younger were not here when Studebaker closed down. Even those into their early 50's would have been in grade school. There are a lot of other businesses in South Bend at that time that are no longer in business.

I don't think the company history is so much a negative to the overall community as is the fact that the city has all these old buildings (and the land they are on) that do not add to the tax rolls in any meaningful way. I think this also gets into politics as well. I don't think the mayor and city council, being extremely young at the time, look at this as anything other than business. It is their job to run the city in the best way possible. Having a 100 year old manufacturing eyesore that has been pretty much abandoned over the last 40 years sitting in the middle of town doesn't help the city in any meaningful way.

Now, that doesn't mean I don't back Dennis and SASCO. I do. But the idea that people who don't have any real remembrance of the plant pushing out cars are out to 'get Studebaker' 40+ years later I think is wrong. I thing the letter received by Leonard from the mayor is proof of this. If the city actually had a 'team' working with the club so that everyone would have an enjoyable experience, I would think they are actually embracing the heritage. But if Wal-Mart wanted to build a store that would employ a few hundred residents of South Bend and add a few million to the tax base, and they wanted to put it at the SASCO site, wouldn't you listen if you were them?

AS for the lack of stores in the city area of South Bend, it's a matter of being where the people are (and where they spend their money). Most large cities have had retail stores back out and move to the suburbs. Inner city people will travel to the suburbs to shop, but most suburbanites won't shop in the city. This has been true in Detroit. For a city close to a million people, there is no Sears, or other such stores. They can not make a profit in most cases. Some will continue to thrive if they are close to a healthy entertainment district.

This comes down to neighborhoods. Most cities worry about commercial enterprise at the expense of the neighborhoods and the neighborhoods rot until no one is left. If a city has thriving neighborhoods, the stores will come back, not the other way around. But deadwood needs to be cleaned up in a timely manor. New sub-divisions in inner cities usually sell rather well (at least in Detroit). But the developers generally want the land cleared before they start building.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

Swifster
07-02-2007, 09:37 AM
Regarding Bill's comments about the current relationship between Studebaker and South Bend, I would say this. In most peoples eyes, Studebaker is not even in the memory bank. I'm 43, and everyone my age and younger were not here when Studebaker closed down. Even those into their early 50's would have been in grade school. There are a lot of other businesses in South Bend at that time that are no longer in business.

I don't think the company history is so much a negative to the overall community as is the fact that the city has all these old buildings (and the land they are on) that do not add to the tax rolls in any meaningful way. I think this also gets into politics as well. I don't think the mayor and city council, being extremely young at the time, look at this as anything other than business. It is their job to run the city in the best way possible. Having a 100 year old manufacturing eyesore that has been pretty much abandoned over the last 40 years sitting in the middle of town doesn't help the city in any meaningful way.

Now, that doesn't mean I don't back Dennis and SASCO. I do. But the idea that people who don't have any real remembrance of the plant pushing out cars are out to 'get Studebaker' 40+ years later I think is wrong. I thing the letter received by Leonard from the mayor is proof of this. If the city actually had a 'team' working with the club so that everyone would have an enjoyable experience, I would think they are actually embracing the heritage. But if Wal-Mart wanted to build a store that would employ a few hundred residents of South Bend and add a few million to the tax base, and they wanted to put it at the SASCO site, wouldn't you listen if you were them?

AS for the lack of stores in the city area of South Bend, it's a matter of being where the people are (and where they spend their money). Most large cities have had retail stores back out and move to the suburbs. Inner city people will travel to the suburbs to shop, but most suburbanites won't shop in the city. This has been true in Detroit. For a city close to a million people, there is no Sears, or other such stores. They can not make a profit in most cases. Some will continue to thrive if they are close to a healthy entertainment district.

This comes down to neighborhoods. Most cities worry about commercial enterprise at the expense of the neighborhoods and the neighborhoods rot until no one is left. If a city has thriving neighborhoods, the stores will come back, not the other way around. But deadwood needs to be cleaned up in a timely manor. New sub-divisions in inner cities usually sell rather well (at least in Detroit). But the developers generally want the land cleared before they start building.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

Scott
07-02-2007, 10:35 AM
It would be interesting to know how the city got stuck with all those buildings. Did Studebaker Worthington just not pay taxes and everything reverted to the city? The last I heard, the last vestiges of the corporation are owned by a New York bank. It's probably ridiculous, but I wonder if there would be any liability after all these years for these buildings by whoever owns Studebaker now.

Scott
07-02-2007, 10:35 AM
It would be interesting to know how the city got stuck with all those buildings. Did Studebaker Worthington just not pay taxes and everything reverted to the city? The last I heard, the last vestiges of the corporation are owned by a New York bank. It's probably ridiculous, but I wonder if there would be any liability after all these years for these buildings by whoever owns Studebaker now.

studeclunker
07-02-2007, 11:32 AM
Actually, the way I've heard it, Studebaker just turned the property over to the city.

That's a valid point about the age of the current city managers and the time that's gone by since the days of Studebaker. If the news coverage is a good indication of the sentiment of the area, the parents handed down a legacy of bitterness.

At this current time it's my understanding that there isn't any big box that wants SASCO's lot. They don't even want to be in the neighborhood. The city just wants the land cleared.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/december%2006/HPIM0234.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

studeclunker
07-02-2007, 11:32 AM
Actually, the way I've heard it, Studebaker just turned the property over to the city.

That's a valid point about the age of the current city managers and the time that's gone by since the days of Studebaker. If the news coverage is a good indication of the sentiment of the area, the parents handed down a legacy of bitterness.

At this current time it's my understanding that there isn't any big box that wants SASCO's lot. They don't even want to be in the neighborhood. The city just wants the land cleared.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/december%2006/HPIM0234.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

glen
07-02-2007, 11:35 AM
The surving enity is Studebaker Worthington Leasing Corp, which leases
equipment to businesses and are a wholly owned subsidiary of the State
Bank of Long Island. I would imagine that any attempt to recoup anything,
by South Bend...is loooooooong gone.....though try as they might!

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/glen_05/Daytonalurkinintheshortgrass.jpg
1964 Daytona
glen Brose
Tumbleweed Flats, AZ

glen
07-02-2007, 11:35 AM
The surving enity is Studebaker Worthington Leasing Corp, which leases
equipment to businesses and are a wholly owned subsidiary of the State
Bank of Long Island. I would imagine that any attempt to recoup anything,
by South Bend...is loooooooong gone.....though try as they might!

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/glen_05/Daytonalurkinintheshortgrass.jpg
1964 Daytona
glen Brose
Tumbleweed Flats, AZ

Chucks Stude
07-02-2007, 11:45 AM
So much of this and other threads on this forum have to do with the fact that South Bend is forgetting that Studebaker was there. To so many people, history began about the time they were born. It would seem to me that there needs to be put in place some kind of educational materials that will help a new generation appreciate what we take so passionately. It would have to be in a video format, since the younger generation does not read to extent that the older generations seem to. If we are looking for Dennis's replacement, or even mine, than we are going to have to cultivate those people.
Also, it would not hurt to have some kind of media kit that could be used in SB just before the meet, to gen up interest in Studebaker. Heck, you could use a well prepared media kit to help promote even local get togethers. The people of SB should not be hearing about the meet on the first day of the get together. If so much of the world is media driven, shouldn't we participate?
It is obvious that they do not teach that there was a Studebaker Corp. in the history books, and so it fades into history. I see it in the eyes of my daughter, and my grandson, when I try to explain to them what my dad did during WW11. The concept of a world at war, and even what a B-24 is totally foreign. At least with Studebaker, there is one sitting in the garage, and it seems somewhat more relevant to them.
But it will not do to preach to a shrinking audience.
That is one way out of the problem at SASCO is to grow the Studebaker universe. IMHO.

Chucks Stude
07-02-2007, 11:45 AM
So much of this and other threads on this forum have to do with the fact that South Bend is forgetting that Studebaker was there. To so many people, history began about the time they were born. It would seem to me that there needs to be put in place some kind of educational materials that will help a new generation appreciate what we take so passionately. It would have to be in a video format, since the younger generation does not read to extent that the older generations seem to. If we are looking for Dennis's replacement, or even mine, than we are going to have to cultivate those people.
Also, it would not hurt to have some kind of media kit that could be used in SB just before the meet, to gen up interest in Studebaker. Heck, you could use a well prepared media kit to help promote even local get togethers. The people of SB should not be hearing about the meet on the first day of the get together. If so much of the world is media driven, shouldn't we participate?
It is obvious that they do not teach that there was a Studebaker Corp. in the history books, and so it fades into history. I see it in the eyes of my daughter, and my grandson, when I try to explain to them what my dad did during WW11. The concept of a world at war, and even what a B-24 is totally foreign. At least with Studebaker, there is one sitting in the garage, and it seems somewhat more relevant to them.
But it will not do to preach to a shrinking audience.
That is one way out of the problem at SASCO is to grow the Studebaker universe. IMHO.

Roscomacaw
07-02-2007, 01:01 PM
I've said this before and I'll assume I'm not the only one who's ever made the observation. Anyway, when someone grows up in the midst of something, they tend to adopt what's around them at the time as the situation that's always been.
I mean.... how many New Yorkers routinely stop to ponder what their turf was like a hundred years or more before? Try it yourself - try envisioning the concrete jungle that that metropolis is as wooded shoreline (400 years ago) with only a few simple huts oozing lazy smoke trails as evidence of any humanity to be found!

South Bend is - to South Bendians - what they see today. At least, it is to those that have the youth and power to percieve it based on what's left of it.
Surely there's lots of folks there that remember the last days of Studebaker and the heartbreak of it's breakdown, but they're of the past and unless they happen to be Studebaker enthusiasts (in the sense that we are), Studebaker's old news and that's that! Such callousness is tough chewin's for those of us that carry a torch for the old marque and I'm cautious enough to not assume I can sum things up in such tidy fashion, but I don't think I'm totally off the mark here.
Talking to locals that do have a recollection of the time when those old buildings still provided alot of cash flo for the area, you realize even THEY don't see the total picture. That picture being what Studebaker MADE of South Bend from the time the brothers decided to throw in together and make wagons.
It could have played out (the company's history) that they never employed more than immediate Studebaker family members and built a few wagons for local needs. Food would have been kept on the tables of what - five or so homes as a resuslt? Not much to speak of in the way of town growth!
But thru a few unsought twists of fate, the vision and integrity of the Studebaker family, and the resultant quality products that grew out of that mix, the company went BIG-TIME! It took South Bend along for the ride in the process.:D
So, the question that has to be asked - even tho it's not relevant to the challenges that the city faces in this day and age - is: What would South Bend look like if the Studebakers hadn't settled there or forged a majorly successful one hundred and fourteen year enterprize???
There's LOTS of sleeply little towns with rivers meandering thru them. Most were established in days when lumber and "craftsmen" were in abundance. Most weren't lucky (or is it "cursed") to have a catalyst like the Studebaker family provide such a growth spurt as South Bend was handed.
Let me state that I know NOTHING of the mayor's life and lineage and nothing of Dennis' life and lineage nor anyone else or any other business or organization associated with South Bend. But without Studebaker, is it a certainty that South Bend wouldn't be just another of those little towns that most of us have never even heard of? Would there even BE a local newspaper or TV station(s) to act as sounding boards for South Bend's plight/fortunes[?][?][?]
But I'd bet that because of the Studebaker's business doin's there thru the years, alot of these folks and firms would be doing their thing elsewhere!;)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
07-02-2007, 01:01 PM
I've said this before and I'll assume I'm not the only one who's ever made the observation. Anyway, when someone grows up in the midst of something, they tend to adopt what's around them at the time as the situation that's always been.
I mean.... how many New Yorkers routinely stop to ponder what their turf was like a hundred years or more before? Try it yourself - try envisioning the concrete jungle that that metropolis is as wooded shoreline (400 years ago) with only a few simple huts oozing lazy smoke trails as evidence of any humanity to be found!

South Bend is - to South Bendians - what they see today. At least, it is to those that have the youth and power to percieve it based on what's left of it.
Surely there's lots of folks there that remember the last days of Studebaker and the heartbreak of it's breakdown, but they're of the past and unless they happen to be Studebaker enthusiasts (in the sense that we are), Studebaker's old news and that's that! Such callousness is tough chewin's for those of us that carry a torch for the old marque and I'm cautious enough to not assume I can sum things up in such tidy fashion, but I don't think I'm totally off the mark here.
Talking to locals that do have a recollection of the time when those old buildings still provided alot of cash flo for the area, you realize even THEY don't see the total picture. That picture being what Studebaker MADE of South Bend from the time the brothers decided to throw in together and make wagons.
It could have played out (the company's history) that they never employed more than immediate Studebaker family members and built a few wagons for local needs. Food would have been kept on the tables of what - five or so homes as a resuslt? Not much to speak of in the way of town growth!
But thru a few unsought twists of fate, the vision and integrity of the Studebaker family, and the resultant quality products that grew out of that mix, the company went BIG-TIME! It took South Bend along for the ride in the process.:D
So, the question that has to be asked - even tho it's not relevant to the challenges that the city faces in this day and age - is: What would South Bend look like if the Studebakers hadn't settled there or forged a majorly successful one hundred and fourteen year enterprize???
There's LOTS of sleeply little towns with rivers meandering thru them. Most were established in days when lumber and "craftsmen" were in abundance. Most weren't lucky (or is it "cursed") to have a catalyst like the Studebaker family provide such a growth spurt as South Bend was handed.
Let me state that I know NOTHING of the mayor's life and lineage and nothing of Dennis' life and lineage nor anyone else or any other business or organization associated with South Bend. But without Studebaker, is it a certainty that South Bend wouldn't be just another of those little towns that most of us have never even heard of? Would there even BE a local newspaper or TV station(s) to act as sounding boards for South Bend's plight/fortunes[?][?][?]
But I'd bet that because of the Studebaker's business doin's there thru the years, alot of these folks and firms would be doing their thing elsewhere!;)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Allan Songer
07-02-2007, 01:05 PM
"Grow the Studebaker Universe." Lofty goal indeed. With a finite and shrinking number of vehicles out there and limited interest among car caollectors, let alone the general public, this doesn't seem to be possible.

My wife is in her mid-40's and has been using a Studebaker as daily transport for about 20 years--first a '62 Hawk with a 4-speed, then an R1 Lark 4-speed and for the last 8 years a '55 E7 pickup. Everyone she meets thinks her cars/truck are really "cool" but also think she's nuts!! No radio, no power steering, no air conditioning, no power brakes--but she loves it!

Her truck is back from the paint shop and the blueprinted V8 is going back in this week. The paint alone was over $5000 and we'll have over $10,000 in the restoration which should keep the '55 on the road for the next 20 years or so--still WAY cheaper than buying a new truck . . .

Allan Songer
07-02-2007, 01:05 PM
"Grow the Studebaker Universe." Lofty goal indeed. With a finite and shrinking number of vehicles out there and limited interest among car caollectors, let alone the general public, this doesn't seem to be possible.

My wife is in her mid-40's and has been using a Studebaker as daily transport for about 20 years--first a '62 Hawk with a 4-speed, then an R1 Lark 4-speed and for the last 8 years a '55 E7 pickup. Everyone she meets thinks her cars/truck are really "cool" but also think she's nuts!! No radio, no power steering, no air conditioning, no power brakes--but she loves it!

Her truck is back from the paint shop and the blueprinted V8 is going back in this week. The paint alone was over $5000 and we'll have over $10,000 in the restoration which should keep the '55 on the road for the next 20 years or so--still WAY cheaper than buying a new truck . . .

Roscomacaw
07-02-2007, 02:16 PM
Allen observes: (speaking of his wife's Stude truck driving) "Everyone she meets thinks her cars/truck are really "cool" but also think she's nuts!! No radio, no power steering, no air conditioning, no power brakes--but she loves it!"

Heh - that's my experience EXACTLY, Allen. Sadly, I get it as much from Studebaker folks as average citizens.[V]

Man, my hat's off to your wife and her dedication.


Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
07-02-2007, 02:16 PM
Allen observes: (speaking of his wife's Stude truck driving) "Everyone she meets thinks her cars/truck are really "cool" but also think she's nuts!! No radio, no power steering, no air conditioning, no power brakes--but she loves it!"

Heh - that's my experience EXACTLY, Allen. Sadly, I get it as much from Studebaker folks as average citizens.[V]

Man, my hat's off to your wife and her dedication.


Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

61hawk
07-02-2007, 02:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

But without Studebaker, is it a certainty that South Bend wouldn't be just another of those little towns that most of us have never even heard of?


Well, there is a little college there as well, can't remember the name... they're supposed to have a pretty good football program.

Lee

61hawk
07-02-2007, 02:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

But without Studebaker, is it a certainty that South Bend wouldn't be just another of those little towns that most of us have never even heard of?


Well, there is a little college there as well, can't remember the name... they're supposed to have a pretty good football program.

Lee

Chucks Stude
07-02-2007, 03:12 PM
So what do you think the option is... let it all disappear? The attendees at SB are saying that the City nor any of the businesses expressed any interest in catering to SDC people, well please, how would you build interest? I know the number of cars is finite, but how about the people standing at the curb watching the parade? Can't that number be grown?
JDP, Mr Biggs and some of the others have lamented how as some of the older member of this community die off, that their cars are basically sold for scrap... there does not seem to be any appreciation of the marquee or their contribution to the community. I am only suggesting that before we let it all implode, that we might take a shot at making the name something special again.

Chucks Stude
07-02-2007, 03:12 PM
So what do you think the option is... let it all disappear? The attendees at SB are saying that the City nor any of the businesses expressed any interest in catering to SDC people, well please, how would you build interest? I know the number of cars is finite, but how about the people standing at the curb watching the parade? Can't that number be grown?
JDP, Mr Biggs and some of the others have lamented how as some of the older member of this community die off, that their cars are basically sold for scrap... there does not seem to be any appreciation of the marquee or their contribution to the community. I am only suggesting that before we let it all implode, that we might take a shot at making the name something special again.

Scott
07-02-2007, 03:39 PM
Well, the new museum is a very good start. The recent show up in Canada had thousands of people seeing some of Studebaker's best. I think there's reason to be a little more optimistic than you're sounding, but it's going to take time.

Scott
07-02-2007, 03:39 PM
Well, the new museum is a very good start. The recent show up in Canada had thousands of people seeing some of Studebaker's best. I think there's reason to be a little more optimistic than you're sounding, but it's going to take time.

Roscomacaw
07-02-2007, 03:51 PM
61Hawk prophets: "Well, there is a little college there as well, can't remember the name... "

So you're saying that whether or not Studebaker had ever been present in South Bend, it would still be a place of note (heh- maybe better off!)simply because the school's there? Actually, I touched on this earlier. The locals see SB winnowing down to a college town at this very moment.
What's up for speculation - beyond your insightful barbs - is whether or not Studebaker had great or little influence on the development of the learning institution.
Or maybe folks flocked to Studebaker in hopes they could eventually work for the campus and realize the rich existance of a "classified" employee on a college campus.
I'd like to ask if in the 1870s, Studebaker or Notre Dame fed more bucks into SB's growth.

Chuck, this is America. America runs on worth. As long as Studes aren't seen as "investments", they'll struggle to maintain a following on the ever-thinning thread of personal nostalgia.
I still don't like the thrust of trying to make the "car world at large" take more note of Studebaker AND finding confirmation of such on the podiums of Barrett-Jackson or Kruse and such. But that's what it comes down to so far as I see it percieved by many in the club.
We only need a few thousand more Matthew Burnettes and maybe we can make SDC carry on as it has. Otherwise, we'll have to count on club expertise coaxing NADA along to assure more Studes don't end up as LG washing machines.



Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
07-02-2007, 03:51 PM
61Hawk prophets: "Well, there is a little college there as well, can't remember the name... "

So you're saying that whether or not Studebaker had ever been present in South Bend, it would still be a place of note (heh- maybe better off!)simply because the school's there? Actually, I touched on this earlier. The locals see SB winnowing down to a college town at this very moment.
What's up for speculation - beyond your insightful barbs - is whether or not Studebaker had great or little influence on the development of the learning institution.
Or maybe folks flocked to Studebaker in hopes they could eventually work for the campus and realize the rich existance of a "classified" employee on a college campus.
I'd like to ask if in the 1870s, Studebaker or Notre Dame fed more bucks into SB's growth.

Chuck, this is America. America runs on worth. As long as Studes aren't seen as "investments", they'll struggle to maintain a following on the ever-thinning thread of personal nostalgia.
I still don't like the thrust of trying to make the "car world at large" take more note of Studebaker AND finding confirmation of such on the podiums of Barrett-Jackson or Kruse and such. But that's what it comes down to so far as I see it percieved by many in the club.
We only need a few thousand more Matthew Burnettes and maybe we can make SDC carry on as it has. Otherwise, we'll have to count on club expertise coaxing NADA along to assure more Studes don't end up as LG washing machines.



Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

bams50
07-02-2007, 04:28 PM
A good place to start is how my nephew Evyn was treated at the Meet... everyone was great to him, and most everyone that met him asked him some version of, "So, do you like Studebakers?"[8D] He's a little quiet and shy, but said on Wed. night- after the seminar, dinner with the Gord, Doc, and Gahlbecks, and the impromptu parking lot repair session- "That's a pretty cool bunch of guys to hang out with!"

As the week wound up, he had made an effort to learn about the cars, and was going on about r2, Hawk, Avanti, butterknife trim, etc... he learned fast because the he liked the cars- which I feel was triggered by the people that treated him kindly![^]

I'm an adult; I hope to have long-term friendships with all of you based on our common interest in Studes, in spite of any differences we may have; but if we don't hit it off, that's OK too; I'll still love the Studes... but with kids, you can make such a deep impression- good or bad- by how you treat them; any little thing can stick with them!

I think the best thing we can do to preserve the Studebaker marque and legacy is to do two things: Look for chances to involve kids, and make an effort to treat them special once they're there!

Based upon what I saw at SB, I think the future of Studebakers in general looks pretty hopeful! Thank you all for your gracious acceptance of this relative newbie, and for helping to lay a solid foundation in a 12-year-old natural-born car nerd![^][^][^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
07-02-2007, 04:28 PM
A good place to start is how my nephew Evyn was treated at the Meet... everyone was great to him, and most everyone that met him asked him some version of, "So, do you like Studebakers?"[8D] He's a little quiet and shy, but said on Wed. night- after the seminar, dinner with the Gord, Doc, and Gahlbecks, and the impromptu parking lot repair session- "That's a pretty cool bunch of guys to hang out with!"

As the week wound up, he had made an effort to learn about the cars, and was going on about r2, Hawk, Avanti, butterknife trim, etc... he learned fast because the he liked the cars- which I feel was triggered by the people that treated him kindly![^]

I'm an adult; I hope to have long-term friendships with all of you based on our common interest in Studes, in spite of any differences we may have; but if we don't hit it off, that's OK too; I'll still love the Studes... but with kids, you can make such a deep impression- good or bad- by how you treat them; any little thing can stick with them!

I think the best thing we can do to preserve the Studebaker marque and legacy is to do two things: Look for chances to involve kids, and make an effort to treat them special once they're there!

Based upon what I saw at SB, I think the future of Studebakers in general looks pretty hopeful! Thank you all for your gracious acceptance of this relative newbie, and for helping to lay a solid foundation in a 12-year-old natural-born car nerd![^][^][^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Chucks Stude
07-02-2007, 04:32 PM
Mr. B..... far be it from me to suggest that a Stude should be Barrett/Jackson bait...but it would seem to me that it is going to take an effort of some kind to even maintain the status quo. More Matthew Burnette's are what we need, but the trick is to find them without alerting the arts and croissants crowd at Barrett-Jackson. Maybe just try to increase membership in "flyover country".