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K-Hawk
12-30-2011, 03:28 AM
does anyone know of a kit to convert a 62 hawk from stude power to mopar - ford - chevy power.

Bob Andrews
12-30-2011, 06:15 AM
There are no 'kits' per se. Major re-engineering is required. If you think removing the stock engine to be properly repaired is hard, with a conversion you can multiply that by at least TEN. You also take away a lot of the car's character. And then, if you completely restore the car, you greatly diminish its resale value by going non-Stude.

Yes, there are upsides to different off-brand engines. But especially for someone without the experience to do the job, the advantages aren't that big.

Studebaker engines are excellent units; just as good or better than any big 3 for regular use. Any parts you'd need are readily available. The car is already engineered for that engine. And if you decide to sell, you haven't damaged resale value.

You have a nice car there; one of my favorites. Save yourself the extra time and money trying to jury-rig an off-brand and use the savings on other areas of the car.

1962larksedan
12-30-2011, 08:25 AM
I have to agree with Bob here: unless the 1962 Hawk in question is missing its motor (then swapping in a 350 Chevy or similar with matching tranny makes sense); I would keep it all Stude.

DEEPNHOCK
12-30-2011, 08:39 AM
Not a slam here...but....
If you want to swap because you lack the skills to repair, or rebuild, a Stude engine.. That's one thing.
But if you require a kit to do the swap...because you lack the skills to do a swap..
Well, you are better off rebuilding the Stude, because that learning curve to rebuild a Stude is a lot quicker than an engine swap learning curve.
You will have to re-do the power steering (if so equipped), the exhaust, the engine mounts, the transmission mounts, the driveshaft, the throttle linkage, the shift linkage, and maybe even the front springs.
Smart money would go with a decent stock rebuild, a carb rebuild (or swap), and an extra year of driving fun in your life.
But,That's just an opinion from a guy with a shop full of swapped and unswapped Stude's... Who likes to fiddle...and swap:rolleyes:
As Jack would say... "Your money, Your Choice"...

irish
12-30-2011, 11:57 AM
A little off topic, but if it's an automatic have you ever used 1st gear? Several years ago a friend of mine bought a 1962 Hawk, his first Stude, he had been driving for several weeks and always talked about swapping the motor for Chevy or Mopar power, due to the lack of power the Hawk had. I explained to him how the car starts out in 2nd gear if the lever is in "D" and you have to put the lever in "L" for it to start in 1st gear, after that he was happy with the power of the Stude V-8. I only bring this up because I'm seeing this more and more with newer/younger Stude owner's that aren't familiar with the 2nd gear start.

whacker
12-30-2011, 12:01 PM
If you can find a 65-66 bellhousing that matches your transmission, there is a Hurst front engine mount that will let you put a SBC into the car OK. It was a pretty standard swap back in the day, and you can still find cars running that combo on the used market. You will have a lot of detail stuff to work out, like throttle linkage and exhaust routing around the steering, but it is not a real hard swap. I don't recommend it, for the same reasons as Bob and the others, but it is your car, and you asked for fact, not opinion.

JoeHall
12-30-2011, 12:11 PM
it is your car, and you asked for fact, not opinion.

I like that answer. Too often, in answering a question we tend to get so far off in left field with our opinions, we even forget what the question was.

Jessie J.
12-30-2011, 12:22 PM
If you were to watch how our Studebaker's perform against the 'Big Three's' products at the Pure Stock Drag Races, you might develop a bit more appreciation for the capabilities of your original engine.
Our Studebaker racers almost never lose to any stock small-block, and have proven capable of consistently defeating around 80% of the Big Three's 400+ cubic inch 'Big-Block Muscle Cars' competing in these events.

The Studebaker V-8 has a tremendous amount of potential, the limits of which are yet to be found. The sturdy factory block and crank has aleady been proven to be able to withstand beyond 1000+ HP without failure.
In my opinion, based on over 40 years of observation and experience, replacing the strong, high quality Studebaker V-8 engine with any production thin-walled, cast-crank, mass produced 'disposable' engine is downgrade and a step backward. (although I will allow that the late LS1 series of engines deserve respect. - but the electronics and sevicability are something else)

The usual reasoning given for such a swap goes; "....and this Brand X engine will be easier to get parts for, and be more dependable"
Examining these claims, they seldom prove to be valid reasoning, and here is why. The strong and simple Studebaker V-8 engine seldom needs its parts replaced, and when it does they are usually easily accessable and easily serviced.
On what other V-8 can one change out the water-pump without even removing a radiator hose? The very few times that I have found it nescessary to do so, the entire job took only one wrench and about ten minuits to complete.
A spare waterpump (it is small enough to hold in the palm of one hand) and a spare distributor, and most commonly required repairs can be performed in minuits and with minimal tools.
No timing chains or belts to worry about stretching or breaking, and Stude V-8s have been known to travel hundreds of thousands of miles before requiring timing gear replacement- and on the few occasions when they do fail there is usually no other damage to the valve-train, which is common to most chain equipped engines and can cost $$$$ in additional repair expenses.
Carburators may be considered crude and old fashioned, but once understood are dependable, easy to repair, and maintain. A functioning carburator that is periodically maintained will seldom if ever leave you stranded on the road, unlike electronicly controlled injection systems that with the failure of a single sensor or an undetected corroded connection will leave you no options other than calling a tow truck.

Now as to the "more dependable" cliaim, if you think that a factory engineered vehicle, one that was extensively tested by the manufacturer, and continually refined in response to hundreds of millions of miles of usage under all manner of real world conditions is 'undependable', well brother, you really ain't seen nothing yet when it comes to the undependibility and potential pitfalls involved in these home-brewed engine swaps. I speak from plenty of hands on experience here, having personally performed and owned many 'engine swapped' vehicles (still got several potential 'swap' engines in my stash- because a fool never learns :-)

Any '62 Hawk is a modern 'classic', one that deserves better treatment than being the victim of another cobbled together junk engine swap.
Just my personal opinion and observations. It is your car and your money, do with it whatever you will. And good luck, because if you go ahead with this you are going to need it.

Alan
12-30-2011, 12:45 PM
Don't waste your money on the Hurst mount kit. You have to cut the rear half of the stock front mount off to make it work. Then the trans cross member is for 53-54 only. and the third piece is a stiffener for the pillow bearing member that your car does not have.

Dick Steinkamp
12-30-2011, 04:30 PM
And then, if you completely restore the car, you greatly diminish its resale value by going non-Stude.


I would agree that a swap is lots of work, lots of engineering and fabrication. It is easier in a Lark since they came with Chevy V8's in 1965 and 1966, but even then, lots of frustration getting everything from pinion angle to cooling to exhaust, to shift and throttle linkage, etc. etc. to fit and work correctly. If you've done swaps before, you have a fighting chance. If you haven't, you are in for way too many surprises. If you are going to PAY a hot rod shop to do the swap, you had better have a pretty big check book. There are FAR more failed and abandoned swaps out there than completed ones.

With that said, my personal experience (others may vary) is that Studes with updated engines/transmissions bring MORE than stock Studes finished to the same level (there are exceptions of course. Most notably very early Studebakers and very special limited production post war cars).

There are about 13,000 members of the SDC. I'd have to say that MOST of them are only attracted to the stock or near stock cars. There may be other folks that don't belong to the SDC that focus on stock Studes, but I would say few. At an International SDC meet, there are maybe 1,000 present and maybe 500 cars. That's the market for stock Studebakers. Perhaps 15,000 people tops....and not all of them are attracted to the same Studebaker year, body style, or equipment.

Contrast that with hobbyists that also appreciate custom and modified cars. At any GoodGuys meet there will easily be 10,000 present (exhibitors and spectators) and generally in excess of 4,000 cars. Multiply that by the 20+ GoodGuys meets plus the NHRA meets and other regional hot rod events.

FAR more folks into custom and modified cars than stock Studebakers and a MUCH bigger market for hot rods and customs than for stock Studebakers. This (again, in my experience) means higher prices for tastefully done modified Studebakers than tastefully done stockers...both finished to the same level.

Here's an example...

I did this '63 Hawk to the same level I did this '54 Starliner. Both are simple cars. Relatively stock motors, T10 4 speeds, no air or power steering, both have stock Stude suspensions. The bone stock Hawk sold for $25k and that is the most I have ever seen a non Avanti powered GT Hawk sell for. The Starliner sold for twice that.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Hawk%20Finished/IMG_2398-1.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Hawk%20Finished/IMG_2362.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/S2D%209-18-04/20f9.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/S2D%209-18-04/116_1634.jpg

So, if you currently have a good running GT, I'd stay with it equipped as is. If your GT needs a motor and transmission, I'd consider the swap, but CONSERVATIVELY pencil out the costs of rebuilding the Stude engine and transmission (not cheap) and the cost (including the headaches) of doing the swap. In the end, however, I do not believe you will diminish the value of the car if you choose the swap.

r1lark
12-30-2011, 05:03 PM
Good discussion Dick..........and what I liked was that you provided specific examples to back up your position.

31Streetrod
12-30-2011, 05:52 PM
I have a 31 Dictator rumble seat, hi-boy, open fender roadster with the following: TCI IFS, 1965 401 ci Buick Nailhead engine coupled to a TH 400 trans and a 9 in" Ford rear with disc brakes on all four corners. As Dick pointed out, there are far more potential buyers for my 31 than if it would be a restored original car, especially in today's economic climate. But it's your car and your money.

mbstude
12-30-2011, 06:11 PM
I have a 31 Dictator rumble seat, hi-boy, open fender roadster with the following: TCI IFS, 1965 401 ci Buick Nailhead engine coupled to a TH 400 trans and a 9 in" Ford rear with disc brakes on all four corners. As Dick pointed out, there are far more potential buyers for my 31 than if it would be a restored original car, especially in today's economic climate. But it's your car and your money.

Any chance you could post some photos? I think I'd pay more for that car than a stock one.

kmac530
12-30-2011, 09:11 PM
I would like to see those pics also of the '31. With a 401 nailhead in it I hope it has an open engine compart to show off that beautiful engine. I absolutely love engines that are different. Not the standard SBC, BBC, SBF, BBF or even Slopar power are just over played to me.

I like the alternative power plants like Rockets, Nail heads, Cads, Studes and flatties. One of my huge regrets is getting rid of my '40 La Salle V8 Flattie and original 3 speed box. That would make a totally sick little roadster driveline.

Back to topic, sorry, I agree with the previous posters that a mild rodded car or truck seems to have a better sale market than an all OE restore of most cars. That said, I don't see where the original poster mentions anything about wanting to sell his or her car. So now I am back to the "your car, your money, do what you WANT to. A full repower is alot of work even with a kit. A rebuild of a Stude motor is no harder than any other motor, as long as you read up in a manual and ask the right questions here, I have had no real trouble with mine so far.
A complete minor rebuild kit was $500.00 and is very straight forward. The hardest part of my overhaul so far has been DEGREASING!

If you are set on a re-power then, personally, I would do nothing other than a LS motor with the full EFI, and all of the electronic goodies and a/c, power...... just too reliable and powerful and lightweight and so much performance aftermarket support.

1962larksedan
12-31-2011, 12:05 AM
I too have noticed that many Stude Eight or no Eight fans tone down their (especially anti SB Chevy) rhetoric quite quickly when 'confronted' with a C/K fitted with especially a 1964-66 401/425 Nailhead and matching TH400 tranny. :)

Dick: throttle linkage was a non issue with my 1962 Lark/350 conversion; I used a firewall suspended 1965-66 accelerator pedal bellcrank, had to drill one hole in the firewall so it could pass through----------yet, the bracket mounting holes/flat firewall spot were supplied by Studebaker. It's as if Studebaker had already done the prototype conversion work back then for future Chevy V8's. My car even had the exact SBC (McKinnon 283) engine pedestal holes drilled from the factory in the engine crossmember.

TXmark
12-31-2011, 09:45 AM
I have a nice slightly modified '63 hawk. I'm working on a early Chrys. Hemi conversion, I have $5k into it so far and the engine is still not in the car, probably another $1000 to $1500 to go. It's your car your money do what YOU want!!

Mark

blue55
12-31-2011, 11:10 AM
there was an article in the December 1958 Hot Rod Magazine detailing the installation of a small block chevy into a 53 chassis. ( you can find copies online) also, there was one in the 60's, in a quarterly engine swap issue. detailing the installation of an L-88 427 Chevy big block into a 53. There was an article on that car in Hot Rod in the 90's, called "the old man and the Studebaker" It is the issue with the bulletnose on the cover, if i remember correctly. Yes, these are obscure referances, but i am an obscure king of guy.

BeeJay
12-31-2011, 03:06 PM
The Feb 1958 "Car Craft" magazine has an article on swapping a SBC into a '53. The guys I run with took great pleasure in presenting me with a copy. Only about 6 years too late.

Bob

johnod
12-31-2011, 06:52 PM
there was an article in the December 1958 Hot Rod Magazine detailing the installation of a small block chevy into a 53 chassis. ( you can find copies online) also, there was one in the 60's, in a quarterly engine swap issue. detailing the installation of an L-88 427 Chevy big block into a 53. There was an article on that car in Hot Rod in the 90's, called "the old man and the Studebaker" It is the issue with the bulletnose on the cover, if i remember correctly. Yes, these are obscure referances, but i am an obscure king of guy.

The quarterly hot rod issue is called " petersons complete book of engine swapping" no.4, it was actually printed in 1975.
It is in fact that mag that turned me on to the 53-54 coupes.

K-Hawk
01-01-2012, 03:23 AM
thanks for the feedback, I amgoing to keep driving the stude 259 as long as it's running.

rockinhawk
01-01-2012, 10:16 AM
I have never done it but have seen it, and have been told the easiest swap is a Chrysler small block. You simply remove the mounts from a Studebaker V8 and bolt them onto the mopar engine. The front part is done. I don't know what it takes to mount the rear. I saw this set-up ina 59 Hawk and it looked factory. Owner said it worked great and was easy.

BobPalma
01-01-2012, 08:35 PM
thanks for the feedback, I amgoing to keep driving the stude 259 as long as it's running.

'Glad to hear that, Ed.

Are you sure it is a 259? It should be a 289, unless you know for sure it saw a transplant along the way.

Wipe off the stamped (not cast) number on the driver side front of the engine block itself. It looks like this:

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/BobPalma/DSCF2544.jpg

The above number is a 1964 259 engine, so it begins with the letter V. If yours also begins with a letter V, it is a 259.

If it begins with the letter P, as did the engine with which your Hawk was manufactured, it will be a 289.

In either case, if you plan to keep driving it "as long as it's running," that will be a long time if you keep it full of clean oil! BP

1962larksedan
01-02-2012, 06:28 PM
I have never done it but have seen it, and have been told the easiest swap is a Chrysler small block. You simply remove the mounts from a Studebaker V8 and bolt them onto the mopar engine. The front part is done. I don't know what it takes to mount the rear. I saw this set-up ina 59 Hawk and it looked factory. Owner said it worked great and was easy.

I was wondering that as well since the pre Magnum Mopar 318 and friends have the same style motor mount bracket block tabs as a Stude V8.

K-Hawk
01-03-2012, 12:32 AM
and mopar starters are on the drivers side too.

53k
01-07-2012, 06:46 PM
Any chance you could post some photos? I think I'd pay more for that car than a stock one.
Here you go Matthew and Kmac. Ron asked me to go ahead and post some pictures.
On Monday I'm going to meet Ron to see a pretty sensational '54 coupe custom that he and his old buddy Jimmy Porterfield are working on. It has a "different" engine, a McClaren 4.6. BTW, Jimmy is the son of the former Studebaker dealer in Martinsburg, WV. I'll post a report after the visit.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Potomac%20Chapter%20Picnic%209-7-08/Potomac%20Chapter%20Picnic%209-7-08%20006.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Potomac%20Chapter%20Picnic%209-7-08/Potomac%20Chapter%20Picnic%209-7-08%20007.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Potomac%20Chapter%20Picnic%209-7-08/Potomac%20Chapter%20Picnic%209-7-08%20008.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Potomac%20Chapter%20Picnic%209-7-08/Potomac%20Chapter%20Picnic%209-7-08%20009.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Potomac%20Chapter%20Picnic%209-7-08/Potomac%20Chapter%20Picnic%209-7-08%20010.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Potomac%20Chapter%20Picnic%209-7-08/Potomac%20Chapter%20Picnic%209-7-08%20011.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Potomac%20Chapter%20Picnic%209-7-08/Potomac%20Chapter%20Picnic%209-7-08%20012.jpg

cosmoapt
03-13-2012, 12:42 PM
Ok, i'm thinking the same thing. My v8 stude is in a 62 Lark regal convertible. It is just dead on it's @ss. No power just terrible. What can I do to get this engine up to where I could burn the tires if wanted. I have to damn near have a flagger to pull out of the driveway. I have changed plugs, set them correctly in the right order, changed damn near everything. I wanted the swap to get some power. Any suggestions before I rip this one out and do the swap. My car is original in engine and trans..
PLEASE HELP



There are no 'kits' per se. Major re-engineering is required. If you think removing the stock engine to be properly repaired is hard, with a conversion you can multiply that by at least TEN. You also take away a lot of the car's character. And then, if you completely restore the car, you greatly diminish its resale value by going non-Stude.

Yes, there are upsides to different off-brand engines. But especially for someone without the experience to do the job, the advantages aren't that big.

Studebaker engines are excellent units; just as good or better than any big 3 for regular use. Any parts you'd need are readily available. The car is already engineered for that engine. And if you decide to sell, you haven't damaged resale value.

You have a nice car there; one of my favorites. Save yourself the extra time and money trying to jury-rig an off-brand and use the savings on other areas of the car.

Alan
03-13-2012, 01:06 PM
cosmo, It depends on if you want to keep it stock or do some modifications. That 259 can be made to snap the axles off if you want. Everything is dependent on how much money you want to spend, the tools you have, the room you have to work and how willing your spouse is to let you blow all that money and time. When you decide what you want to do and what engine you want to use, just ask and someone around here will have already done it and will help.

tbredehoft
03-13-2012, 01:49 PM
Engine is a dog



What transmission do you have between the engine and the Rear Axle?


If it's an automatic, it may well just need adjusted. If it's a clutch type, the rear axle may be the wrong ratio.



We need more information before guessing what's wrong.

irish
03-13-2012, 02:59 PM
If you are putting the car in 'D' you are taking off in 2nd gear not first! You must put the car in 'L' to have a first gear start. This will make a big difference. To keep it simple think of it this way on these cars 'D' operates in 2nd & 3rd gear and 'L' operates in 1st & 2nd gear. Also a 259 V-8 with auto usually has a 3.07 rear axle, not so great for take offs, but it allows you to cruise down the highway.

Joe