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ddub
12-29-2011, 06:27 PM
The Museum of Flight in Seattle unveiled its newly restored B17 F last fall. It is named the Boeing Bee. I made a visit and checked for Stude power, all four engines are Studebaker. I'll attempt to attach pix, my first try at that.

1300713008

grobb284
12-29-2011, 06:46 PM
They are also restoring a B17 in Urbana, Ohio.

A group of us (local motorheads) made a road trip to see its reconstruction. The man in charge mentioned that the Studebaker engined planes were more reliable, and more desired by the flight crews. This plane also had Studebaker engines.

He stated to us that they made over a 1000 HP each. I asked my friends if they knew how this was accomplished, which they didn't. I informed my friends that being Studebakers, the 1000 HP was accomplished by detuning them.

DEEPNHOCK
12-29-2011, 06:56 PM
I read this post to the wife, and made mention of the Studebaker built engines in the B17.
She made a comment about putting that engine in a car.
I told her it was a big radial engine. A BIG radial engine.
She rolled her eyes and gave me 'The Look'...Then added.. "That wouldn't stop you from trying"..
Then I showed her this video and said "Nahh...It's already been done"....


http://youtu.be/luvkcP0mkgA

aarrggh
12-29-2011, 07:33 PM
Excellent ! . B-17s are my favorite planes . . . . . . . . . And i dont know how this got by me , But i only just heard this week that the B-17 " Liberty Belle " crashed and was lost sometime this year . A plane i saw up close at a show here in Minnesota . Dont remember if it was Stude powered though ...........

http://i41.tinypic.com/24b81ly.jpg

Gunslinger
12-29-2011, 07:37 PM
Robert K. Morgan, the pilot of B17F Memphis Belle, said in his autobiography that he told his crew chief that under no circumstances did he want Studebaker engines on his aircraft. He didn't elaborate why.

Wonder what his dislike of Studebaker was from?

DEEPNHOCK
12-29-2011, 07:43 PM
Covered extensively right here on this forum......
http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?52006-quot-Liberty-Belle-quot-B-17-Lost-In-Aurora-Illinois-(6-13-2011)


Excellent ! . B-17s are my favorite planes . . . . . . . . . And i dont know how this got by me , But i only just heard this week that the B-17 " Liberty Belle " crashed and was lost sometime this year . A plane i saw up close at a show here in Minnesota . Dont remember if it was Stude powered though ...........

aarrggh
12-29-2011, 07:48 PM
I must have been day dreaming that week .

mbstude
12-29-2011, 07:50 PM
I read this post to the wife, and made mention of the Studebaker built engines in the B17.
She made a comment about putting that engine in a car.
I told her it was a big radial engine. A BIG radial engine.
She rolled her eyes and gave me 'The Look'...Then added.. "That wouldn't stop you from trying"..
Then I showed her this video and said "Nahh...It's already been done"....


http://youtu.be/luvkcP0mkgA

Why am I having thoughts of a radial engined Zip Van?

Gary1953
12-29-2011, 07:51 PM
Robert K. Morgan, the pilot of B17F Memphis Belle, said in his autobiography that he told his crew chief that under no circumstances did he want Studebaker engines on his aircraft. He didn't elaborate why.

Wonder what his dislike of Studebaker was from?

The Memphis Bell started on a mission and had to turn back. One of the Studebaker engines had failed. Morgon told his crew chief he never wanted a Studebaker engine again.
Several years ago I visited where the Belle was being restored at the time and all four engines were Studebakers.

HAWK64
12-29-2011, 09:01 PM
[QUOTE=ddub;606780]The Museum of Flight in Seattle unveiled its newly restored B17 F last fall. It is named the Boeing Bee. I made a visit and checked for Stude power, all four engines are Studebaker. I'll attempt to attach pix, my first try at that.

Don, I managed to pick up a Studebaker Aviation engine plate on Ebay a couple of years ago in excellent shape. The seller's grand father ( a B17 crewman ) had brought it back in 1945. It certainlly differs to the image you posted & interestingly has in the upper left corner the famous Studebaker Wheel logo that was phased out in the mid thirties. Why Studebaker kept using this logo till the mid forties has mystified me. Alas, I have'nt learnt the art of adding a photo yet.

63 R2 Hawk
12-29-2011, 09:17 PM
The Evergreen Air Museum (and water park) in Mc Minnville, OR has a Studebaker r-1820 on a display dolly sitting next to the B-17 "mystery lady". I fondle it every time I visit the museum, as long as my wife is not watching. I've flown on the Collings B-17 "909" a couple of times, and always checked to make sure at least one engine was a Stude.

BobPalma
12-29-2011, 09:35 PM
The pix posted fine, Don. Cool beans! BP

Chris_Dresbach
12-29-2011, 10:41 PM
B-17s are awesome. There is an engine for one in the SNM. Every day I go to work I can't help but think of the mighty Flying Fortresse's. Personally I think it would be really cool to get just the engine for one and set it up in one of the test cells at the plant. :p

PlainBrownR2
12-29-2011, 11:03 PM
Excellent ! . B-17s are my favorite planes . . . . . . . . . And i dont know how this got by me , But i only just heard this week that the B-17 " Liberty Belle " crashed and was lost sometime this year . A plane i saw up close at a show here in Minnesota . Dont remember if it was Stude powered though ...........

http://www.libertyfoundation.org/contact-us.html

You'll have to contact these guys on the engines. I presume that the engines were probably Pratt and Whitneys as it was a testbed for the engines. I took the photos on the other thread about the crash, as it literally crashed in my backyard. However, there was NO way I was going to walk up to the plane and find out, as they had the police, NTSB, and B17 crews canvassing the plane. This was a crash scene and the authorities(ranging from county up to the federal level) were treating it as such, so I, like the other people respected their space around the plane. I did get as high resolution photos as possible, so I could blow up the pictures to see the details, even if I can't see the engine plaques underneath. In all honesty, between I and another fellow that were standing there taking photos, plus the regular stream of Oswego residents coming out into the farmer's cornfield to see the wreck, I could only spend no more than 20 minutes getting photos of the plane from that vantage point before the police politely asked us to leave, which was completely understandable.

silverhawk
12-29-2011, 11:30 PM
That plane supposedly had three Studebaker built engines in it, I am not sure if that is completely true.

JBOYLE
12-29-2011, 11:41 PM
They are also restoring a B17 in Urbana, Ohio.

During my trip to Indianapolis for the Stutz/Indy 500 Centennial, I stopped by on my way to South Bend...a slight detour which allowed me to see the Memphis Belle and Swoose (the oldest B-17 and the only surviving "shark tail" model) in Dayton and the Urbana plane...and finally, the B-17 at Grissom ANGB.

Here are photos of the Urbana aircraft. Nice people, their shop is always open and they're more than happy to show you around.

I conned my way into a private tour of the National Museum of the USAF restoration shop to see the Swoose and Memphis Belle.
(You see, I used to be somebody at Wright-Patterson). I didn't check on who made the engines. But I can post photos if anyone is interested.

BTW: a friend has recently published the 4th edition to his book, The Final Cut, which gives the history of all surviving B-17s, about 50 out of nearly 13,000 built by Boeing, Douglas and Vega (Lockheed).
This edition even has a couple of photos I took back in the 70s when they were still on fire duty. A great book and a must for all B-17 fans.
http://www.amazon.com/Final-Cut-Post-War-Fortress-Survivors/dp/1575101564/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325224557&sr=1-2

Or you can order direct by mail from the author...(the site has lots of B-17 news).
http://www.aerovintage.com/b17bits.htm

sbca96
12-29-2011, 11:58 PM
A few years ago there was a B17 at Vandenberg Air Force Base (right near me) and it had
one Studebaker engine. I took a picture if the plate, but for the life of me I dont knew where
it is, nor do I recall the planes name.

Tom

garyash
12-30-2011, 11:25 AM
As fate would have it, my wife and I spent the last two nights with her 89-year old cousin in Little Rock, AR. He had been a waist gunner in a B-17 in the 388th bomb group based in Thetford, England from March-August 1944. He told us of flying the required 35 missions and showed me the history of the group. He was one of the lucky ones, because the survival rate wasn't great. The history book had lots of photos of planes with battle damage, including one plane that took two rockets through the fuselage right behind the cockpit and still made it back to base. After he got rotated home, the group continued to bomb all over Europe until the end of the war. In early May, 1945, under a truce with Germany, the group dropped food from the bomb bays onto open fields in the Netherlands. After VE day, they ferried home with troops and POWs on board. It was great to meet a man who flew one in WWII. Imagine 40 passengers in the belly of a B-17 for a trans-Atlantic flight!

Here is a photo I took of an engine tag on the Collings Foundation "909" plane.
http://www.studegarage.com/images/other/b17_909_engine_tag.jpg

BobPalma
12-30-2011, 11:57 AM
As fate would have it, my wife and I spent the last two nights with her 89-year old cousin in Little Rock, AR. He had been a waist gunner in a B-17 in the 388th bomb group based in Thetford, England from March-August 1944. He told us of flying the required 35 missions and showed me the history of the group. He was one of the lucky ones, because the survival rate wasn't great. The history book had lots of photos of planes with battle damage, including one plane that took two rockets through the fuselage right behind the cockpit and still made it back to base. After he got rotated home, the group continued to bomb all over Europe until the end of the war. In early May, 1945, under a truce with Germany, the group dropped food from the bomb bays onto open fields in the Netherlands. After VE day, they ferried home with troops and POWs on board. It was great to meet a man who flew one in WWII. Imagine 40 passengers in the belly of a B-17 for a trans-Atlantic flight!


Under the circumstances, Gary (going home after the war), I bet those guys thought it was the lap of luxury, they were so happy. <GGG>

Honor and respect to every one of them, for sure. You were so fortunate to have been in his presence and have his first-hand report. BP

raprice
12-30-2011, 12:51 PM
I believe that the B-17 engines were Wright Cyclone engines that were built by Studebaker under license. A few years ago, my wife and I attended an airshow on Long Island and the Memphis Belle was there. There was a step ladder next to one of the engines. I asked permission to climb the ladder to look at the engine.
When I looked at the name plate, it said Studebaker Corporation. I exclaimed, "holy cow, it's a Studebaker!" You should have seen the expressions on people's faces.
Rog

Gunslinger
12-30-2011, 01:13 PM
I believe that the B-17 engines were Wright Cyclone engines that were built by Studebaker under license. A few years ago, my wife and I attended an airshow on Long Island and the Memphis Belle was there. There was a step ladder next to one of the engines. I asked permission to climb the ladder to look at the engine.
When I looked at the name plate, it said Studebaker Corporation. I exclaimed, "holy cow, it's a Studebaker!" You should have seen the expressions on people's faces.
Rog

That wasn't the real Memphis Belle...the real Belle is at the Air Force National Museum being restored. It hasn't flown since probably the 1940's...it was in Memphis for many years where it was left to the elements and vandalism. The Air Force eventually repossessed it and is rebuilding it for static display indoors.

There's at least one B17 painted in Memphis Belle colors out there flying at air shows. It's possibly the same one used for the 1990 movie "Memphis Belle"...which outside of the facts that there was a WWII and a B17 named Memphis Belle, the movie has little relation to any other facts. Most of the surviving crew members didn't want their real names used for the movie due to its lack of truthfulness. It reminds me of what my uncle who went ashore in the first wave at Omaha Beach said when I asked him about "Saving Private Ryan"...all he said was "That's just Hollywood!".

JBOYLE
12-30-2011, 03:44 PM
That wasn't the real Memphis Belle...the real Belle is at the Air Force National Museum being restored. It hasn't flown since probably the 1940's...it was in Memphis for many years where it was left to the elements and vandalism. The Air Force eventually repossessed it and is rebuilding it for static display indoors.

There's at least one B17 painted in Memphis Belle colors out there flying at air shows. It's possibly the same one used for the 1990 movie "Memphis Belle"...


You're correct, that's the "The Movie Memphis Belle", in 2007 they added "The Movie" to the nose art to avoid confusion with the real thing...reportedly at the request of the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force.
It's N3703G, the former 44-83546 and based out of Geneseo, New York.

BTW, the Boeing Bee (the original subject of this thread) was used in the film as well...flying all the way to the UK for filming. It's the sole airworthy B-17F. But with the donation to the Seattle museum, following the death of its owner, Bob Richardson, it's flying days are probably over. I hope the museum keeps it airworthy (and in a building it can get out of) so they can take it out once every few years. It would be great to have a flying B-17 in Seattle in 2035 to mark the 100th birthday of the type.

I've attached some photos of the Belle undergoing restoration back in May. I hear she's almost done now.

Chris_Dresbach
12-31-2011, 02:05 PM
http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx323/chris_dresbach/Studebaker%201/scan0001-3-2.jpg
http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx323/chris_dresbach/Studebaker%201/scan0002-6-2.jpg

Gary1953
12-31-2011, 03:23 PM
Wow Chris. I don't think I've seen those two pictures before.
Thank you for posting.

HAWK64
12-31-2011, 03:28 PM
Chris,
Thanks so much for sharing those two photos with all of us. In all the Studebaker literature I have read & have I have never seen these images before.

BobPalma
12-31-2011, 03:32 PM
Yes, Chris; very nice pics. Tack sharp. 'Good that they survived in such nice shape. Thanks for the peek. BP

maxpower1954
01-01-2012, 07:53 PM
I've been looking at B-17s since the 1970s, and every one of them has had at least one Studebaker license-built Wright engine.

I hate to be this picky, but I don't think of these as Studebaker engines per se, since they had nothing to do with the design. The Wright R-1820 had been around since the early '30s; initially DC-3s had them (although they were supercharged, the B-17 engines were turbo-charged.) Studebaker was a contractor, same as Douglas and Lockheed Vega building Boeing B-17s under license. Studebaker also made under license from GE J-47 jet engines for the Boeing B-47 during the early 1950s.

Steve T
01-01-2012, 08:13 PM
Neat thread.

The revived Hamilton Air Show this past June featured (among much else) two B-17s, the aforementioned ex-Tallichet collection "The Movie Memphis Belle" based with the 1941 Historical Aircraft Group at Geneseo NY, which is a G-model backdated cosmetically to resemble an F for the film, and B-17G "Chuckie" of Jerry Yagen's Military Aviation Museum in Virginia. At least three of the movie Belle's R1820s were Studebaker (the plate was not visible on the fourth); and iirc two of Chuckie's Cyclones were Stude. No production Forts were P&W-engined...the testbed that became the recently-lost "Liberty Belle" belonged to P&W but for testing of turbine engines in its nose. There was an experimental variant with Allison engines, the XB-38.

Re DC-3s, yes, many of the early ones had Wrights. CWH's "Dakota", actually a 1939-vintage DC-3 (with some 85,000 flight hours!), is one such. Checked the engines, though, and sadly enough both plates just say "Wright Aeronautical"...

Here's "The Movie Memphis Belle" at Hamilton, June 2011...

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll260/StudeSteve/Hamilton%20Air%20Show%20Revival%202011/100_9868.jpg

And here's "Chuckie".

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll260/StudeSteve/Hamilton%20Air%20Show%20Revival%202011/100_9873.jpg

S.

53k
01-02-2012, 08:25 AM
It is both interesting and strange that Studebaker, in the 100 Years on the Road magazine, didn't mention B-17s at all in their war support section. The only mention that even came close was one line on page 72 that mentioned production of 63,789 reciprocating bomber engines. The same sentence mentioned 197,678 trucks and 15,000 Weasels. On the other hand, there was a large picture of a B-47 and much description of the jet engines built for it.

63 R2 Hawk
01-02-2012, 09:00 AM
Studebaker also was under contract in the late '40s to build the GE J-47 jet engines used on the first jet powered bomber, the B-47.

raprice
01-02-2012, 12:30 PM
J Boyle, you are absolutely correct about the "Memphis Belle" that I saw.
Rog