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TX Rebel
12-16-2011, 04:27 PM
I got a call from the owner of a diesel Lark. He says it is an original survivor car maintained in excellent condition. He says it is a hardtop, and wants to know value because he is looking to sell. I told him that it is a very rare unique car but would not be likely to sell for a super high price, probably about like a (more desirable) 289-4spd. would sell in similar cond & body style. Condition is always the most important factor, of course. He needs to find a new owner who appreciates the ultra-rare, super economical car and likes diesels. It may pop up on ebay soon.

Bob Andrews
12-16-2011, 04:41 PM
Is it Torrey Kirby's? I've always wanted that car!

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?20162-Torrey-Kirby-diesel-Lark

31Streetrod
12-16-2011, 04:58 PM
Now is your opportunity. Give him a call at 304-229-5740 and buy it. No shipping involved. Can be driven to NY, just bring your dealer plates. You do have dealer plates don't you???

Bob Andrews
12-16-2011, 05:05 PM
Now is your opportunity. Give him a call at 304-229-5740 and buy it. No shipping involved. Can be driven to NY, just bring your dealer plates. You do have dealer plates don't you???

Of course, I have dealer plates. Most licensed dealers do. So then you're in charge of the sale?

31Streetrod
12-16-2011, 05:11 PM
Nosireebob, I'm not in charge of any sale. Just trying to help a fellow forum member fulfill your life's dream of at least buying one of the many hundreds of Studebakers that you want to buy.

62champ
12-16-2011, 05:50 PM
Is this the same vehicle? This is from Gettysburg PA Atlantic Zone meet this last summer.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/shows/Gettysburg%202011/DSC03466.jpg

Bob Andrews
12-16-2011, 06:04 PM
62Champ- that's not it. Torrey's is a 4-door.

We still don't know if it's Torrey's or someone else's that's for sale.

mbstude
12-16-2011, 06:16 PM
62Champ- that's not it. Torrey's is a 4-door.


The two door pictured is Torrey Kirby's car.

31Streetrod
12-16-2011, 06:19 PM
Bob A, you are very much mistaken. Torrey Kirby's diesel Lark is a 2 DOOR.

Bob Andrews
12-16-2011, 06:25 PM
The two door pictured is Torrey Kirby's car.

OK thanks, I was remembering it wrong. Thought sure it was a 4-door. It has amber backup lenses or something as well, right?

Still not sure if Barry is talking about Torrey's or a different one. I'm sure he will clarify when he gets back on.

StudeRich
12-16-2011, 06:45 PM
Well if the owner who told TX Rebel about the car is correct, IT IS A HARDTOP, so none of you are even close to I.D.ing this one.

I was not aware of ANY '63 Daytona Hardtops with Diesels.

63 R2 Hawk
12-16-2011, 07:07 PM
OK, so what diesel motor does it have? Was it a special motor designed by Studebaker or was it an "off the shelf" motor made for passenger cars in general? I know Studebaker had some ties with Mercedes in the 60s, was it one of theirs?

Bob Andrews
12-16-2011, 07:15 PM
Perkins diesel. Studebaker toyed with it some but didn't build many cars with diesels.

Somewhere there is a diesel Zip Van, I belive the only one made. Would love to have that baby!

avantilover
12-16-2011, 07:23 PM
I'm sure this can easily be cleared up with the serial numbers of this vehicle. Those who seem to have instant access to such things will be able to state : yes, this is/is not a factory diesel and any potential sale can then be undertaken in full knowledge of the facts.

With no disrespect intended to Barry, perhaps details can be provided when posting, it's too easy for someone to say "I have an X" without providing the proof which will no doubt be forthcoming now so this car can be sold.

Milaca
12-16-2011, 07:29 PM
Is this the same vehicle? This is from Gettysburg PA Atlantic Zone meet this last summer.


I don't mean to change the subject, but do you or anyone else have additional photos of that white 1963 Daytona convertible? Thanks

rockne10
12-16-2011, 07:53 PM
Check out threads on the Atlantic Zone Meet in Gettysburg, July 2011 for photos.
Torrey had it for sale there. Now's your opportunity, Bob!
I think Torrey indicated this was the first deisel produced; odd to be in a two door sedan. Later Studebakers with Perkins were mainly built for taxi service.

http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/rockne10/AOAI%20SDC%20Atlantic%20Zone%20SDC%20July%202011/?action=view&current=P7160244.jpg
http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/rockne10/AOAI%20SDC%20Atlantic%20Zone%20SDC%20July%202011/?action=view&current=P7160243.jpg
http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/rockne10/AOAI%20SDC%20Atlantic%20Zone%20SDC%20July%202011/?action=view&current=P7160245.jpg

Milaca
12-16-2011, 08:08 PM
Thanks Rockne10, picture 184 of the convertible! It's also a Super Lark, very nice.

Guido
12-16-2011, 08:50 PM
It is interesting the amount of conjecture that this thread has evoked, especially in light of the scant amount of information that Barry provided.

Since speculation immediately arose that the car in question belongs to Torrey Kirby and there have been questions raised on that particular vehicle, I feel it is appropriate to respond. Like Paul Johnson (and undoubtedly others), I have personally seen and examined Torrey's car over the years since first seeing it at the annual SDC show at Hillendale Park in Harrisonburg, VA in 1975.


62Champ- that's not it. Torrey's is a 4-door.

As Matthew correctly stated (and Paul Johnson's post that Bob linked to in his first response indicates), Torrey's car is a 2 door sedan.


OK thanks, I was remembering it wrong. Thought sure it was a 4-door. It has amber backup lenses or something as well, right?

Yes, and you can see them in the picture that 62 Champ posted.

Here is a rear view of Torrey's car that shows a closer view of them.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o175/guidosalvage/sara_vbs019.jpg


OK, so what diesel motor does it have? Was it a special motor designed by Studebaker or was it an "off the shelf" motor made for passenger cars in general? I know Studebaker had some ties with Mercedes in the 60s, was it one of theirs?

As Bob indicates, it is equipped with a Perkins diesel. Perkins was a well known English producer of diesel engines that were mostly employed in agricultural applications, especially by Massey Ferguson. In fact Massey bought Perkins in 1959. The association of Studebaker with Mercedes was for distribution and marketing.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o175/guidosalvage/sara_vbs020.jpg


Somewhere there is a diesel Zip Van, I belive the only one made. Would love to have that baby!

Asa Hall owned the diesel Zip Van and it sold at his estate auction in September, 2005. I believe that it brought $1400 and my memory tells me the buyer may have been the same individual who bought the Dodge Big Horn. If that is the case it is currently in Pennsylvania.

http://inlinethumb28.webshots.com/29083/2705324080097493054S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/47193/2069411080097493054S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb15.webshots.com/48782/2123336610097493054S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/46631/2677062770097493054S600x600Q85.jpg

I am sure that Barry will be back at a later point with additional information and eliminate the speculative trend that has developed within this thread.

rockne10
12-16-2011, 09:20 PM
Gary,
Same Perkins engine in the Zip Van, Torrey's Lark and the fleet taxis?

Allpar.com indicates Perkins diesels were available in Studebaker autos for taxis as early as 1950.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/perkins.html

Diesel Power Magazine article in November 2005 indicates 264 Studebaker bus chassis were equipped with Perkins P6 in 1956; no mention of Perkins equipped cars.
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/news/0511dp_studebaker_trucks/viewall.html

8E45E
12-16-2011, 09:22 PM
Asa Hall owned the diesel Zip Van and it sold at his estate auction in September, 2005. I believe that it brought $1400 and my memory tells me the buyer may have been the same individual who bought the Dodge Big Horn. If that is the case it is currently in Pennsylvania.

I believe that Zip Van has a Cerlist diesel engine, not a Perkins like the Larks had.

Craig

Guido
12-16-2011, 09:37 PM
Gary,
Same Perkins engine in the Zip Van, Torrey's Lark and the fleet taxis?

Allpar.com indicates Perkins diesels were available in Studebaker autos for taxis as early as 1950.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/perkins.html

Diesel Power Magazine article in November 2005 indicates 264 Studebaker bus chassis were equipped with Perkins P6 in 1956; no mention of Perkins equipped cars.
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/news/0511dp_studebaker_trucks/viewall.html

Brad,

My understanding is that until the diesels were reintroduced in 1962, there had not been any produced since prior to WW2. There must have been consideration, as I believe that Chuck Naugle has an expermental 1958 Transtar with a diesel in it.


I believe that Zip Van has a Cerlist diesel engine, not a Perkins like the Larks had.

Craig,

That is my understanding as well. Take a look at the engine pictures of Torrey's Lark and Asa's Zip Van and you will see differences in the heads.

Gary

Kurt
12-16-2011, 09:41 PM
The perkins diesel in the Lark was a 4 cylinder 203 cubic inch engine, that is essentially the same engine use in Massey Ferguson 65 and later 165 tractors. We had both of those Massey models at one time or another on our family farm. Very sturdy little engine and efficient.

R2Andrea
12-16-2011, 11:52 PM
The '63 Larks built by Studebaker were either 2 dr. sedans or 4 dr sedans., there were no Larks built in other body styles. 8E45E is correct in that the Diesel Zip Van was powered by a Cerlist engine. Allpar.com is incorrect, Studebaker did not offer diesels in cars untill the run of pilot cars in 1963.

StudeRich
12-17-2011, 02:20 AM
John, you probably need to read the first few posts, because we are ONLY talking about the few prototype DIESEL Larks.

1962larksedan
12-17-2011, 10:39 AM
I'm going to say that the 1963 car with the Diesel was an export model due to the amber B/U lights turned into directional signals?

Corvanti
12-17-2011, 10:58 AM
more info can be found re: perkins diesel in larks in Mr. Quinn's excellent "Lamberti Papers" posted earlier this year. :)

R2Andrea
12-17-2011, 12:17 PM
I need to make a correction to my previous post ( #23). Of the 10 Diesel Larks built, 5 were 63S-Y1's, 2 were 63S-F3's, 2 were 63S-Y3's and the last one was a 63S P3. It was the HD wagon that I had forgotten about. Mr Kirbys car was the second of the F3 cars built and has a final assembly date of 6-20-63. There was 1 F3 and 5 Y1's built previous to his car. The first of the run has a final assembly date of 6-14-63. None of the Diesel Engine Program vehicles were built for export, they all were intended for evaluation by domestic fleet buyers.

studegary
12-17-2011, 06:08 PM
Some people now refer to any car with a steel roof as a hardtop.

StudeRich
12-17-2011, 06:16 PM
Some people now refer to any car with a steel roof as a hardtop.

Lol! I am very aware of that Gary. But sorry, that is THEIR mistake! :(

stude dude
12-17-2011, 06:37 PM
I'm going to say that the 1963 car with the Diesel was an export model due to the amber B/U lights turned into directional signals?

The amber rear indicator lenses were for the Australian market only. I am guessing that maybe they chose to fit amber lenses to this Lark (and maybe other diesels) so that they would be easily identified. At least until you could hear them chugging along!

showbizkid
12-17-2011, 06:56 PM
Or, more likely, the clears were unavailable and originals cracked to pieces - so amber was better than nothing.

I have been looking for a driver's side b/u lens for Barney for 4 years now. They're made of unobtainium!

Dennis L. Henry
12-19-2011, 01:14 PM
As an FYI, Perkins is an ongoing division / brand of Caterpillar. Cerlist was an independant designer / manufacturer until it became a division of Waukesha Engine Company, and later disappeared. Waukesha is now a division / brand of General Electric.

Jim B PEI
12-19-2011, 01:21 PM
I got a call from the owner of a diesel Lark. He says it is an original survivor car maintained in excellent condition. He says it is a hardtop, and wants to know value because he is looking to sell. I told him that it is a very rare unique car but would not be likely to sell for a super high price, probably about like a (more desirable) 289-4spd. would sell in similar cond & body style. Condition is always the most important factor, of course. He needs to find a new owner who appreciates the ultra-rare, super economical car and likes diesels. It may pop up on ebay soon.


So I take it that this car is NOT Mr Kirby's car, but another diesel? (and obviously not the one in the junkyard what was not understood by the person who saw it at the time exactly what it was, and thus wasn't saved)

Okay, perhaps the owner wants to be private about this, until it goes on Ebay etc, but can you possibly tell us anything at all about the car and which model it might be? I'm guessing its one of the Y models, not the wagon or the other F2. Inquiring minds etc

Don't tempt me, please. I love diesels and Studebakers, and have gone long distances for cars in the past.