PDA

View Full Version : Hydraulic clutches in Studebakers??



Jeff T.
06-17-2007, 12:21 AM
Has anyone ever rigged up a hydraulic clutch kit for a Studebaker especially for the Larks with the suspended pedals. With all of those clutch rods I had to wonder.

Jeff T.

"I'm getting nowhere as fast as I can"
The Replacements.

sbca96
06-17-2007, 05:53 AM
I will be doing one in my Avanti when I get to the T56 swap. I might
have to have the entire bellhousing CNC machined, but hopefully will
find an easier way to mount the hydraulic goodies. The only T56 swap
on the market was a guy who uses a rather large steel adapter on the
back of the crank, and mounts a standard clutch assembly on that. Its
important to me to keep the hydraulic clutch, to get the improvement
of going to the T56 install. I drove my buddies 2002 Camaro SS in a
parking lot & the clutch was apples to oranges compared to my Avanti.

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

PackardV8
06-17-2007, 12:56 PM
FWIW, I will be using a McLeod hydraulic throwout bearing on my custom T56 project. No one is designing slave cylinders and pivoting forks any more. That was just a transition design to bridge between the mechanical and the new hydraulic throwout bearing. All new OEM stuff I am seeing is hydraulic throwout bearing.

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

N8N
06-17-2007, 02:25 PM
On JP's Chevy-powered '53 Champion, the builder had simply put another brake master cylinder on the inboard side of the frame, driven off the clutch pedal. Worked great.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

gibbsr1
06-17-2007, 03:00 PM
I made an adapter plate to put a tremec tko 500 behind my R1 in my Avanti. I used a centerforce dual friction clutch and used the stock clutch linkeage. It feels the same as my friends new mustang gt and I know it holds more. I think a diaphram clutch is the way to go for a lighter pedal.

PackardV8
06-17-2007, 04:10 PM
Hi, N8N,

Alan will confirm using another OEM brake master cylinder for the clutch on C/K cars is a fifty-year-old Stude street rodder trick. Most of us building these cars have done it several times.

Jeff's question was how to do it on the Larks and Avanti with suspended pedals. The solution is probably similar. Just mount another appropriately-sized bore cylinder on the firewall and fabricate linkage to enable the clutch pedal to operate it. While I haven't done it, since so many Avanti have been converted to dual M/C, there should be plenty of the original single piston M/Cs to experiment upon.

thnx, jv.

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

JeffDeWitt
06-17-2007, 04:59 PM
If you have the non-suspended pedals the MC trick sounds like it would work fine, but what about the slave cylinder?

sbca96
06-17-2007, 06:05 PM
Hey Packard .. I didnt realize you were doing a T56 install as well.
The slave/fork you describe is the factory Camaro setup? Honestly, I
bought a complete setup from a 97 Camaro, but havent really looked at
the parts other than to confirm they are there. I will be getting
more familar with everything when I get to that point. For now it has
been putting out fires getting the Avanti back on the road, and upkeep
on the commuters to get to work to make money to buy cool stuff for
the Avanti (and the other project - 78 Camaro LT1 install).

Tom


quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

FWIW, I will be using a McLeod hydraulic throwout bearing on my custom T56 project. No one is designing slave cylinders and pivoting forks any more.

PackardV8
06-17-2007, 06:56 PM
Hi, Tom/sbca96,

The Viper T-56 is already in place behind the Packard V8 in my '56 Hawk, so it is a bit different than your Studebaker V8 plan.

IIRC, the early Camaro T-56 used the slave cylinder/fork and the later ones used a hydraulic throwout bearing.

If I was doing a Studebaker T-56, I'd use a McLeod steel block plate redrilled for the Stude bolt pattern, the necessary aluminum T-56 spacers from McLeod to adjust the input shaft depth as well as their hydraulic throwout bearing. Not a very complicated install, now that all the parts are available.

thnx, jv.

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

Dick Steinkamp
06-17-2007, 11:47 PM
quote:Originally posted by JeffDeWitt

If you have the non-suspended pedals the MC trick sounds like it would work fine, but what about the slave cylinder?


It is a 50 year old trick...I stole it from a 1958 Hot Rod Magazine article about putting a Chevy in a "late model" Stude.

I used a bellhousing out of a mid 80's Chevy pickup in my '54. It is slightly different than a normal Chevy bell in that those trucks had a hydraulic clutch and the bell has the bosses for the slave cylinder. It releases fully and works smoothly. Also it will hold the big (big block) 11" clutch.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

sbca96
06-18-2007, 01:28 AM
Perhaps I should contact them now that Red is gone. He was not at all
helpful when I discussed a Studebaker bellhousing years ago. It must
have been over 3 years ago now. That REALLY turned me off of Mcleod
parts, and I swore I would never do business with them with him there.
If they had something available FOR Studes, I would purchase it with
B&M holding the reins.

My plan at this point was to have the LT1 flywheel drilled to Stude
crank pattern, neutral balanced, and then design my own bellhousing.
I have the GM bellhousing, I thought about just machining off the last
inch near the block, and welding a new Studebaker pattern on. After
talking to a few people, warpage would be a pain, so it would have to
be machined again after. Thats when I figured I would just do a 3d
model of it and modify to fit a Stude. I have to see what sizes I can
get large thick walled tubing in, then cap it with an adapter. Its in
the future so I have plenty of time to keep dreaming.;)

Do you know what year the change was made from forks? I guess I can
take the plastic off my T-56 and look at it.[:I]

Tom


quote:Originally posted by PackardV8
I'd use a McLeod steel block plate redrilled for the Stude bolt pattern, the necessary aluminum T-56 spacers from McLeod....

DEEPNHOCK
06-18-2007, 04:07 PM
Interesting...
I had all the hydraulic stuff, with the appropriate street rod suspended pedal stuff to try and do this style setup on that F-1 Ford pickup I built earlier this year for that guy down in Florida.
After agonizing over all the custom fabrication stuff required, I used the 55 year old Ford pedal setup and redid the booster mount (tossing the hot rod stuff) and built a custom pivot shaft for the bellhousing to fork rod. While not a Stude thing, I write this to emphasise that sometimes the old OE stuff has useful life left in it.
Tossing it all out for the sake of putting new stuff on can sometimes just add to the confusion...
Just thinking out loud...
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp


quote:Originally posted by JeffDeWitt

If you have the non-suspended pedals the MC trick sounds like it would work fine, but what about the slave cylinder?


It is a 50 year old trick...I stole it from a 1958 Hot Rod Magazine article about putting a Chevy in a "late model" Stude.

I used a bellhousing out of a mid 80's Chevy pickup in my '54. It is slightly different than a normal Chevy bell in that those trucks had a hydraulic clutch and the bell has the bosses for the slave cylinder. It releases fully and works smoothly. Also it will hold the big (big block) 11" clutch.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Jeff T.
06-18-2007, 11:23 PM
For what it is worth, I can get a slave cylinder up at Speedway for about 40 dollars, just have to fab a bracket to mount the slave cylinder down at the bell housing. I have to figure out how to mount the master cylinder for the clutch on the firewall. If I was working on my 60 Lark I could have a master cylinder on each side of the frame rail but I have a 62 Lark, the holes for the MC are still on the frame but the pedals are under the dash.

I'll figure it out, If any else has any ideas let me know.

I wanted to do something because when I was driving a Lark with a Ohv6 and a T-96 I managed to bend a series of clutch rods and I tried quickly of working on the clutch.

Jeff T.

"I'm getting nowhere as fast as I can"
The Replacements.

sbca96
06-19-2007, 01:25 AM
I hear yah on that! I bent something on the Avantis T-86 trans when I
was trying to shift it fast. Was binding pretty bad and then it was
suddenly stuck in 2nd gear.[B)]

My neighbor saw me under the car swaring and came over, he has an old
Jeep and had it working again in a couple minutes.[:I]

Tom


quote:Originally posted by Jeff T.
I wanted to do something because when I was driving a Lark with a Ohv6 and a T-96 I managed to bend a series of clutch rods and I tried quickly of working on the clutch.

bradnree
06-21-2007, 08:22 AM
NSRA National Street Rod Association and Goodguys magazines have many sources for brake and clutch conversions, pedals and hardware. Both organizations are on line. Streetrodders have been converting for years. I did the double master cylinder on a '53 in 1962...........Brad,

PackardV8
06-23-2007, 10:59 AM
Greetings, Jeff,

Agree completely. On my Hawk project, I kept the stock brake/clutch pedals actuating new master cylinders. The only downside to them is the big holes in the floorboard are impossible to seal to modern standards of noise, moisture and heat transmission. Any suggestions?

thnx, jv.

PackardV8