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View Full Version : Looking for a set of canadian crossed flags



Shane
12-04-2011, 07:17 PM
Looking for a set of crossed flag emblems for the 66'Daytona. Thanks Shane

2R5
12-04-2011, 07:40 PM
hard item to come by

gordr
12-04-2011, 09:13 PM
For the sail panel? You need two of them? I will have a look tomorrow. Might have some.

Shane
12-04-2011, 09:53 PM
For the sail panel? You need two of them? I will have a look tomorrow. Might have some.
Yeah, The crossed checkered flag emblems. I only have half of one left:eek:

candbstudebakers
12-05-2011, 01:12 AM
If different then post a picture, if not then I have some.

StudeRich
12-05-2011, 01:29 AM
The only Cars I have seen these on were all Canadian Built late '64's, I guess the 6 Cyl. Sport Sedans might have had these Flags with no V-8, but I thought they were never used after '64, since my '65 V-8 Sport Sedan had the regular V-8 Crossed Flags on it, that NO '64 Canadian models did, regardless of Engine Type. :confused:

BobPalma
12-05-2011, 08:03 AM
Rich (and others):

Here's an odd 1964 Daytona Six sedan I am considering buying in central Indiana. The photos were taken within the last 4 months.

As you can see from the side-view photo and serial number, it is a Hamilton-built 1964 model year car built before December 31, 1963....and it has the non-8 checkered flags. (The car is an unusually-nice, mostly-original car with only 23,000 actual miles on it, too.)

This car is unusual in that it was sold new in Franklin IN (just south of Indianapolis), but built before December 31, 1963. I would have thought all 1964 model year Studebakers built in Hamilton during calendar year 1963 would have stayed in Canada, but this car proves at least one escaped! <GGG> BP

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/BobPalma/DSCF1917.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/BobPalma/DSCF1903.jpg

Bill Pressler
12-05-2011, 08:05 AM
Rich (and others):

Here's an odd 1964 Daytona Six sedan I am considering buying in central Indiana. The photos were taken within the last 4 months.

As you can see from the side-view photo and serial number, it is a Hamilton-built 1964 model year car built before December 31, 1963....and it has the non-8 checkered flags. (The car is an unusually-nice, mostly-original car with only 23,000 actual miles on it, too.)

This car is unusual in that it was sold new in Franklin IN (just south of Indianapolis), but built before December 31, 1963. I would have thought all 1964 model year Studebakers built in Hamilton during calendar year 1963 would have stayed in Canada, but this car proves at least one escaped! <GGG> BP

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/BobPalma/DSCF1917.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/BobPalma/DSCF1903.jpg

Honestly, I didn't think the '66's had them. My car has had the standard vinyl roof replaced, so maybe they just didn't make it back on the car but I don't recall ever seeing a '66 with them.

8E45E
12-05-2011, 08:11 AM
This car is unusual in that it was sold new in Franklin IN (just south of Indianapolis), but built before December 31, 1963. I would have thought all 1964 model year Studebakers built in Hamilton during calendar year 1963 would have stayed in Canada, but this car proves at least one escaped!

Definitely, Bob! And the serial number proves it was an earlier "first series", as some say, car, too. I wonder just how many other 'first series' Hamilton-built cars were sold in the U.S. besides this one.

Craig

BobPalma
12-05-2011, 08:22 AM
Definitely, Bob! And the serial number proves it was an earlier "first series", as some say, car, too. I wonder just how many other 'first series' Hamilton-built cars were sold in the U.S. besides this one. Craig

Right, Craig; that's what I find so unusual.

I mean, when Studebaker discontinued South Bend assembly at the end of calendar year 1963, they had an enormous glut of unsold, 1964 South-Bend built models to unload anyway they could to dealers. Why would they go to the trouble of bringing in a Hamilton-assembled 1964 model built before January 1, 1964?

I know the above subject car was originally purchased by a little old lady, but it would be difficult to imagine her being so adamant about having a 1964 Daytona Six sedan that they brought one down from Canada because that specific model was not available from South Bend.

Weird stuff. BP

8E45E
12-05-2011, 08:28 AM
I know the above subject car was originally purchased by a little old lady, but it would be difficult to imagine her being so adamant about having a 1964 Daytona Six sedan that they brought one down from Canada because that specific model was not available from South Bend.

Any idea on the 'sale date' of that car (and possible 'order date' if she didn't buy it off the lot)? That would most likely answer a few questions.

Craig

BobPalma
12-05-2011, 08:36 AM
Any idea on the 'sale date' of that car (and possible 'order date' if she didn't buy it off the lot)? That would most likely answer a few questions. Craig

No, Craig, I do not. The 80-odd-year-old gentleman offering it for sale now bought it directly from her estate about 25 years ago, and is the second owner. He got no paperwork with it, 'sorry to say.

If I buy it, I'll pursue a Production Order because I agree, even that will be interesting as to final assembly date and destination.

Nice original interior, eh? BP

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/BobPalma/DSCF1921.jpg

2R5
12-05-2011, 09:10 AM
This is the emblem he is looking for
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/2R5/Daytona14.jpg

the part number is 1360154 W P

...I do have a pair of nos ones but we have one of these cars in the family and I really don't want to part with them .

candbstudebakers
12-05-2011, 10:34 AM
I did have a set of them and never figured they were Studebaker, and I think they are still in a drawer in the garage , I will look and then if so they can be had.

BobPalma
12-05-2011, 10:46 AM
With all due respects to whoever supplied them to Hamilton Assembly, I believe they were also marketed as an off-the-shelf, aftermarket, generic decoration.

I wouldn't be surprised to find them in a catalog such as Speedway Motors, Summitt, Jegs, or even J. C. Whitney, but don't have the time right now to go on a safari looking for them. BP

2R5
12-05-2011, 11:02 AM
You have to make sure the pins on the back line up or you will be in for drilling new holes.

Bill Pressler
12-05-2011, 11:06 AM
You have to make sure the pins on the back line up or you will be in for drilling new holes.

Do you have them on your '66? I don't. My '64 Canadian-built hardtop that's now in Oz had them though.

2R5
12-05-2011, 11:28 AM
No , they weren't used in 66 and I don't know for sure about 65 either

Jim B PEI
12-05-2011, 03:44 PM
Rich (and others):

Here's an odd 1964 Daytona Six sedan I am considering buying in central Indiana. The photos were taken within the last 4 months.

As you can see from the side-view photo and serial number, it is a Hamilton-built 1964 model year car built before December 31, 1963....and it has the non-8 checkered flags. (The car is an unusually-nice, mostly-original car with only 23,000 actual miles on it, too.)

This car is unusual in that it was sold new in Franklin IN (just south of Indianapolis), but built before December 31, 1963. I would have thought all 1964 model year Studebakers built in Hamilton during calendar year 1963 would have stayed in Canada, but this car proves at least one escaped! <GGG> BP

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/BobPalma/DSCF1917.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/BobPalma/DSCF1903.jpg

Here it gets just a little bit stranger. I have a Hamilton built 64 six cylinder 2dr sedan, and instead of the crossed flags, it has the lazy S in the circle, like the hood ornament, on both rear sails. What makes this another head scratcher is that this car is a true "Commander Special" with the Daytona vinyl seats, carpet, and has a radio and automatic...but note the serial number in my signature! This "Commander Special" has a different note on the production order, something like 7900 or 7990 Daytona interior, but the BUILD date is in October 1 through October 3 1963, before they announced the shutdown of South Bend, and it was delivered to Capital Motors in Fredericton NB in November 63 (again before the shutdown announcement), so what was going on there? Its the only Commander Special I know of that has a SC style serial number, instead of an after January 1/1964 style Hamilton serial number. If they were going to all the trouble to stealth build (and deliver) a car before Jan 1/64, that was supposed to only come into effect after Jan 1/64. you would think that they would have used the 'crossed flags' of the late 64 production cars

I guess that if there had been more and later "Lamberti papers" all might have been revealed!

8E45E
12-05-2011, 05:03 PM
Here it gets just a little bit stranger. I have a Hamilton built 64 six cylinder 2dr sedan, and instead of the crossed flags, it has the lazy S in the circle, like the hood ornament, on both rear sails. What makes this another head scratcher is that this car is a true "Commander Special" with the Daytona vinyl seats, carpet, and has a radio and automatic...but note the serial number in my signature! This "Commander Special" has a different note on the production order, something like 7900 or 7990 Daytona interior, but the BUILD date is in October 1 through October 3 1963, before they announced the shutdown of South Bend, and it was delivered to Capital Motors in Fredericton NB in November 63 (again before the shutdown announcement), so what was going on there? Its the only Commander Special I know of that has a SC style serial number, instead of an after January 1/1964 style Hamilton serial number.

Just a bit more information about 'Daytona Trim Kit' on Hamilton cars, is that it appears to go back to 1962! If you look in your September TW in that article on Hamilton Production, you will see a Daily Line Ticket with an F4 with 'Daytona Trim Kit'. Currently, there are two 1962 2 door sedans in Saskatchewan with bucket seat interiors. (I havn't seen them personally, so I cannot confirm what they all have, but I suspect they have carpets as well.) I suspect a 'Daytona Trim Kit' was also offered on Regal 2-doors in 1963 as the F6 was not available in Canada.

Craig

gordr
12-05-2011, 05:35 PM
Well, I was without power from noon until 4:30 P.M. Crew working on the line. Anyway, I checked my box of scripts, etc., and I have 2 crossed-flags emblems, no "8", both have both pins. They would clean up fine, not noticeably pitted. Twenty bucks plus postage for the pair. If I don't get them in the mail tomorrow, it will have to wait a week.

StudeRich
12-05-2011, 06:05 PM
Here it gets just a little bit stranger. I have a Hamilton built 64 six cylinder 2dr sedan, and instead of the crossed flags, it has the lazy S in the circle, like the hood ornament, on both rear sails.

Nothing strange about that at all Jim, all Commanders had the Circle "S" Emblem on the "C" Pillar. Just because it has a Daytona interior, does not a Daytona make, only Daytonas have the racey crossed Flag Emblem.

Also all "built for Canada" in 1963 '64 Studes. have the SC or VC designation.

Shane
12-06-2011, 03:40 AM
Here are some factory pics 1966 Daytona with checkered flag emblem witch one? The vinyl top is to far gone to follow dirt impressions, one little piece of the checkered flag remains. Thanks for the help as this is a mind blower Shanehttp://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss313/squireshop/aa7990.jpg http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss313/squireshop/J4984.jpg

stude dude
12-06-2011, 04:36 AM
Here are some factory pics 1966 Daytona with checkered flag emblem witch one? The vinyl top is to far gone to follow dirt impressions, one little piece of the checkered flag remains. Thanks for the help as this is a mind blower Shanehttp://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss313/squireshop/aa7990.jpg http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss313/squireshop/J4984.jpg

I believe these are prototype photos. As far as I (and the 1965-66 parts book) are aware, no crossed flag emlems of any type were used after 1965.

Chris.

Stu Chapman
12-06-2011, 07:51 AM
I believe these are prototype photos. As far as I (and the 1965-66 parts book) are aware, no crossed flag emlems of any type were used after 1965.

Chris.

The car in the picture with the people is not a prototype. It was framed in the usual manner but specifically tagged for 'Advertising' for catalog photography. It then went into factory stock for purchase by a dealer. Regarding the crossed flags my recollection is that they were used on the C pillar in the 1964 mldel year for Daytona hardtops only. I'm not certain if they were continued for some models of the 65 and 66 Daytona Sports Sedans.
Stu Chapman

Bordeaux Daytona
12-06-2011, 08:29 AM
There was someone at the spring swap in the back hallway of Sasco maybe 4-5 ? years ago that had maybe 3 dozen of those emblems in the box. I thought they had them a couple of years. I should've asked how much they were and bought some. The next year they were all gone. I found a couple of nice used ones later.

candbstudebakers
12-06-2011, 10:52 AM
My old 65 Daytona had them but don't remember if the 66 cruiser had them , it went to New Zealand so would need to ask Geo.

2R5
12-06-2011, 12:26 PM
Stu , its very interesting you mention that 66 Daytona with the roof emblem on it. It wouldn't surprise me that was the only one to have that . Studebaker must of changed their minds on using that emblem . I have one of those large postcards with that car on it and if you happen to have a 66 brochure you will see the same picture in it but the emblem has been photoshopped out . This is something that I never noticed before. If that car was sold after the photo shoot it could very well be the only Daytona with roof emblems.....anyone own the car?

StudeRich
12-06-2011, 02:13 PM
Regarding the crossed flags my recollection is that they were used on the C pillar in the 1964 mldel year for Daytona hardtops only. I'm not certain if they were continued for some models of the 65 and 66 Daytona Sports Sedans.Stu Chapman

On 1964's; The Body Group 2104-9 Crossed Flag with V-8 Emblems 1360151WP were used on both '64 Daytona Hardtops and Sedans, the 1360154WP (WP= Chrome & Paint) Crossed Flags only, were used on Y8 & J8 Canadian Cars.

Bob Peterson; as I said in post #22, the "Daytona Racing Flags" were only used on Daytonas, NO Cruisers, Commanders Challengers.

ON '65's and '66's:
The Daytona Sport Sedans F8 in 1965 did go back to using the V8 Crossed Flags 151 again on V-8's, and on 6's the Canadian '64 Flags only 154, Emblems were used.

The 1966 Daytona Sport Sedans F8, had NONE.
Ref: Studebaker 1965 and 1966 Chassis and Body Parts Catalog Oct. 1965, Group 2104-9, Pg. 225.

BobPalma
12-06-2011, 02:30 PM
Stu , its very interesting you mention that 66 Daytona with the roof emblem on it. It wouldn't surprise me that was the only one to have that . Studebaker must of changed their minds on using that emblem . I have one of those large postcards with that car on it and if you happen to have a 66 brochure you will see the same picture in it but the emblem has been photoshopped out . This is something that I never noticed before. If that car was sold after the photo shoot it could very well be the only Daytona with roof emblems.....anyone own the car?

A good conclusion; well thought-out. BP

8E45E
12-08-2011, 06:30 PM
This is something that I never noticed before. If that car was sold after the photo shoot it could very well be the only Daytona with roof emblems.....anyone own the car?

It stands to reason that it is 'one of a kind'. Ray's '66 Daytona, serial number C530006 in your roster does not have these C-pillar emblems, and its totally possible that his is the second or third Daytona built with that low of serial number.

Craig

2R5
12-08-2011, 06:43 PM
It stands to reason that it is 'one of a kind'. Ray's '66 Daytona, serial number C530006 in your roster does not have these C-pillar emblems, and its totally possible that his is the second or third Daytona built with that low of serial number.

Craig


That probably makes the case Craig, I never thought to look at Ray's Daytona ....I took a pic of it in Glendale a couple years ago ......will have another look

gordr
03-23-2012, 02:05 PM
Shane, I sent you a PM a couple of days ago, but you may have missed it, so I figured I would bump this thread. I am going to Portland, and should pass through the Tri Cities on the evening of April 10, or the morning of the 11th. If I get your phone number, I can call and meet you to hand over the emblems.

StudeRich
03-24-2012, 11:39 PM
So Shane still wants non V-8 Flags on his V-8 '66 Daytona that never had them? :confused:

If that's his choice I understand, but it does not make a lot of sense because the V-8's look better and are more appropriate.

8E45E
07-16-2013, 07:33 AM
Right, Craig; that's what I find so unusual.

I mean, when Studebaker discontinued South Bend assembly at the end of calendar year 1963, they had an enormous glut of unsold, 1964 South-Bend built models to unload anyway they could to dealers. Why would they go to the trouble of bringing in a Hamilton-assembled 1964 model built before January 1, 1964?

I know the above subject car was originally purchased by a little old lady, but it would be difficult to imagine her being so adamant about having a 1964 Daytona Six sedan that they brought one down from Canada because that specific model was not available from South Bend.

Weird stuff. BP



Here's some proof of a pre-January '64 Hamilton six cylinder Daytona that was sold new in the US: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?73126-A-long-shot-in-the-dark-for-dealer-Daytona-invoices-4

Craig