Brakes: Installed 54 brake drums on a 49 champion

[bubbaten]

Iwould like to install 5 lug brake drums from a 54 Champion on my 49 champion
This will permit installation of a varity of wheels and get away from the 4 lug wheels.
Can this be done and besides the brake drums what additional pieces will I need?

Thanks
Bob

[Tom Bredehoft]

IF they will fit, you will need the backing plates and all the other parts, too. Even the cylinders, the '49's will be smaller/less effective.

The hang up will be if the bolt holes on the steering knuckle match those in the backing plates.

[RadioRoy]

The job is much bigger than that.

The 50 and older has a smaller spindle size on the front and smaller diameter tapered axles on the rear. In 51 Studebaker settled on sizes that remained constant until the end of production. Complete brake assemblies with backing plates and internal parts can be switched back and forth on years 51 and up. It is not a simple bolt-on task to add 51-up brakes to 50-older. Machine work will have to be done, adapters made to the front spindles, and I have no idea what you could possibly do with the rears.

[StudeRich]

/Cut/Complete brake assemblies with backing plates and internal parts can be switched back and forth on years 51 and up. It is not a simple bolt-on task to add 51-up brakes to 50-older.

Ahh, make that 1954 to mid 1965 for rear and 1954 to 1966 for Front.

[Tom Bredehoft]

Ahh, make that 1954 to mid 1965 for rear and 1954 to 1966 for Front.

I remember bolting a '55 Commander front set of brakes on my '53 back in 1960. I don't know if pre-'53 will fit, though.

[candbstudebakers]

Like Roy stated more than a simple swap, the front ends were changed in 51, maybe an early commander might help out some since they were 5 lug ,but I don't know for sure.

[1962larksedan]

I believe someone here on the SDC Forum used 4 lug Saturn (SL series?) disc brakes front and back on a 1950 Champion and it wasn't a difficult conversion. Apparently the original Stude hubs up front with the drums removed will clear the Saturn disc brake rotors since the wheel bolt pattern is the same on both.

[53k]

Iwould like to install 5 lug brake drums from a 54 Champion on my 49 champion
This will permit installation of a varity of wheels and get away from the 4 lug wheels.
Can this be done and besides the brake drums what additional pieces will I need?

Thanks
Bob

A member of our chapter had his '50 Champion converted to the five-lug setup and has finned Hawk drums all around. I don't know what all was involved, but I know it wasn't easy or cheap.

[52 Ragtop]

The 51 (Commander) through early 53 Spindles have the same bolt pattern for the backing plates. The 51-early 53 spindles will raise the front of the car up about a 1/2" more than the later spindles. In other words, if you want to drop the front end of the 51- early 53's, use a later spindle.
51 -52 Champions, use a "skinnier" king pin, with the use of a thicker bronze bushing, the later spindles will work on the 51-52 Champions. (I have the bushings in stock) <G>
I'm still "playing" around for disc brakes on the early cars, a 4 bolt pattern and a 5 bolt pattern.
At this time, i "think" I now have a 12" rotor with a 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern that will work with my Truck disc brakes, (even though trucks have a 5 on 5 bolt pattern) I have one here, and will mock it up hopefully tomorrow.

Jim

[Lothar]

I believe someone here on the SDC Forum used 4 lug Saturn (SL series?) disc brakes front and back on a 1950 Champion and it wasn't a difficult conversion. Apparently the original Stude hubs up front with the drums removed will clear the Saturn disc brake rotors since the wheel bolt pattern is the same on both.

Here's that thread. Tim87714 had an intriguing idea. I wonder if he got it to work?

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?19338-1950-Champion-suspension&highlight=Saturn

I don't know what happened to Tim. Is he still around? Did we lose him along the way somewhere?

[rockne10]

I don't know if pre-'53 will fit, though

I swapped all four corners from 1961 to my '51 and all four corners from 1963 to my '53. The '61 brakes are not self-adjusting; the '63 brakes are. There are subtle differences but, I believe, the mounting pattern is the same.
This supplies absolutely no help to Bob who, obviously, has a set of '54 Champion brakes and a '49 Champion he wants them on.
May be simpler to swap a complete later rear axle; have no idea what would need to be done up front.

[Harv]

Back in 2002 I bought a Stg-4 185 Flat Head Engine from Bill Cathcart. He also sold me a front brake update for my '50 Champ. It included backing plates, shoes & hardware, drums, wheel bearings and a spacer tool (returned to Bill) to center the backing plate to drill holes in it to align with the spindle flange bolt holes. I am not sure what year vehicle that the doner parts came from. I seem to recall that it was from a '55 V-8 Stude. The modification really improved the car's braking. A few year's later I changed over the rear end assy to a '51 so that I'd have 5-bolt wheels all around ('76 Chrys 6x15 wheels all around).

[MRWL8AGN]

I have 63 GT Hawk brakes on my 1950 Champion

As above, I have 1963 GT Hawk brakes installed on my 1950 Champion but it was not easy. For the front, the centers of my backing plates and the centers of the GT backing plates needed to be cut out and swapped and welded back together. This was done in a machine shop to assure the centers were maintained and everything was perpendicular. This gave me a backing plate that would bolt to my spindles and support the GT brake assemblies. For the rear it got even more complicated. While the GT backing plates and drums did fit the 1950 axle the drums went on too far and they bottomed out against the backing plates. The shop doing the work wound up making tapered spacers to fit between the drum hub and the axle to move the drums away from the backing plate. A new emergency brake cable also had to be installed. The set up really works well. Those big 11" drums and shoes can put someone through the windshield if you hit them really hard so I installed seat belts too just in case. Also, the hill holder still works fine. An alternative for the rear would have been to locate a complete 1951third member and install that in my 1950 instead of doing the shims but the problem wasn't known until the assembly was started so the improvised shims were the best solution.

My car also has a 185 six installed with the hot camshaft, dual carbs, a high compression aluminum head, and headers with dual exhaust. Making the car run better necessitated better brakes. It now stops as good as it goes. With radial tires and my overdrive I can run 70 to 75 mph on the highways all day long without a hitch. Makes for a much more fun car. Hope this helps.

[warrlaw1]

Would love to hear more form Harv about that Cathcart Stage 4. I have Champion dreams for my retirement project.

[Harv]

Dave, This is Bob's Brake thread and I'd rather not clog it with non-brake related photos & data.
Please email me at hjs66@yahoo.com and I'll share my Stg-4 185 experience (9 yrs / 5,000 miles).
Thanks, Harv