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jlmccuan
06-13-2007, 01:21 PM
OK, I've done the searches and read all the threads on brakes. The decision has been made to upgrade our 66 Avanti II to 4 wheel discs. The next question is scratch build, or buy someone's kit and if kit, whose? Sure would appreciate some input here.

Thanks,
Jim

JDP
06-13-2007, 02:07 PM
Buy the Turner kit, but rethink the rear disks, they'll make very little difference for the cost involved unless you just like the cool factor.

JDP/Maryland

64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

jlmccuan
06-13-2007, 03:16 PM
Ah yes, the cool factor. I must admit, that does enter into the equation. My wheels are 17" 5 spokes, so the brake components will need to be cleaned up since they are exposed for viewing.

Mike Van Veghten
06-13-2007, 03:22 PM
It all boils down to how good you are with a plate of steel and hand tools...?

Tom (sbca96), maybe a few others as well as myself have done our own and have been happy. If you're not that handy (not a put-down) with making parts on the bench, Turners kits may be the way to go.

In case you haven't seen mine - click on the 54 Conestoga pic's.
http://Public.Fotki.com/-Mike-/

Have fun either way you go.

Mike

jlmccuan
06-13-2007, 04:04 PM
I do have SolidWorks, a 4000W laser, a 145T brake and a few other toys. Would anyone have drawings of their adapters and brackets for sale, trade, or dare I say free?

I will say the allure of fabricating a stainless adapter and bracket is very interesting, and Summit has those drilled 13" rotors on sale...

Anybody need some stainless logo's cut??

dave smith
06-13-2007, 10:00 PM
why not put a disc brake rear end in it probably cheaper and easier good luck

wcarroll@outrageous.net
06-14-2007, 12:45 AM
Jim-

I'm in the process of installing 4-wheel discs on my '63 Avanti. I have a Turner rear kit on the stock Dana 44 and a mid-size GM setup on the front (similar to Turner's Kit). Honestly, if I were to do it over I would go the same route as Tom (sbca96). It's less expensive, offers better performance, additional weight reduction and there's a huge selection of aftermarket parts to choose from. Plus you already have the 17" wheels needed to clear the monster calipers. Unfortunately, I started my 4-wheel conversion some time ago and now have too much time and money wrapped up in what I have, so I'm just gonna have to stick with what I've got. Just my .02 cents :)

jlmccuan
06-14-2007, 09:46 AM
Good to know. I have cheap access to GM parts, but the big Ford rotors and calipers sure look sweet. Haven't checked into the cost of the Ford calipers, but will today.

I thought Tom might chime in on this, but not so far...

64V-K7
06-14-2007, 10:23 AM
My Avanti has the Steel-tech kit on the rear(had to fabricate my own E-brake), Turner on the front, 16X8" alloys (5 spoke), quick steer arms. I used the master cylinder from an 85 Cadillac Seville, with an 85 booster. (One suggestion... don't use silicone brake fluid)
The 4 wheel setup does look good..

Bob Johnstone
http://www.studebaker-info.org/7168422/sig2.jpg

Swifster
06-14-2007, 10:26 AM
Jim, the Ranger, Mustang, Explorer, etc., use the dependable 8.8" rear end, and in the case of the Mustang and Explorer, the rear end width is also a direct fit for the Lark/Avanti. Measure out your rear end and let your local salvage yard be your guide. Most will include the calipers, brackets, etc for minimal or no charge.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

jlmccuan
06-14-2007, 10:59 AM
Interesting...I happen to have a '92 Explorer sitting in the shed. I'll take a closer look tonight.

Swifster
06-14-2007, 12:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by Swifster

Jim, the Ranger, Mustang, Explorer, etc., use the dependable 8.8" rear end, and in the case of the Mustang and Explorer, the rear end width is also a direct fit for the Lark/Avanti. Measure out your rear end and let your local salvage yard be your guide. Most will include the calipers, brackets, etc for minimal or no charge.


Jim, I'm sorry. I just reread what I wrote and I meant to say it's almost a direct fit.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

Mike Van Veghten
06-14-2007, 12:34 PM
May I give the gang thinking about monster brakes something to think about......

Most Studes are "fairly" light compared to most cars.
99.9% of the Studes on the road have approxamatly 6" to 7" wide tread on the tires.
It takes horse power to turn heavy wheels and brake rotors.
It takes gas to make that horse power to turn that heavy stuff.
It makes the shocks and springs work harder to control that new extra weight way out on the ends of the spindles.
Most don't drive their Studes much over the posted speed limit...if at all.

So...thinking about all this for a second or two.....
Why "over brake" your car?

If you are wanting gas milage, you are wanting the best E.T. slip numbers at the drag strip you can possibly get, if you want as good handling a car you can get with Stude parts....

Don't overload the car with monster rotors and calipers!

Mechanically...they just aren't needed/required to properly stop a 3300 lb. car.

Now if you are road racing or live in the mountains and love the twisty turns....go for it...but even there....be carefull to design a "system" that fits the car and what you will be doing with it.

I guess the guys that are just "showing" their cars and not really driving them, the extra weight and power will go a long way toward impressing the younger crowd.

The brakes I did using the wimpy little Avanti rotors....will lock up the 7" wide tread tires in a big hurry. Why then do I need more brake power? I've had a few sudden stops from 65 or so MPH...not a problem at all.
Of course my "reduced diameter" rotors in the back help stop the 9-3/4" wide tread tires on the back also.

By the way....none of this is in any way is bashing Tom (sbca96) for his efforts in comming up with his Mustang/Studebaker brake assembly. He's done a good job in adapting those parts.

It's just overall...mechanically...unless your Stude has 8" or 9" wide tires in front and is a road racing demon...with 3 or 4 hundred horse power...................?

Just something to ponder during lunch!

Mike

Swifster
06-14-2007, 01:54 PM
quote:Originally posted by jlmccuan

Ah yes, the cool factor. I must admit, that does enter into the equation. My wheels are 17" 5 spokes, so the brake components will need to be cleaned up since they are exposed for viewing.


Mike, Jim IS looking for that WOW factor!. I've mentioned on another post that rear discs weigh more than drum brakes. Unfortunately drums don't have the visual appeal of shiney disc brakes. I'm thinking of a drag car and wouldn't think of swapping the rear drums. But for a show car with 17" wheels I might.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

sbca96
06-14-2007, 03:12 PM
quote:Originally posted by jlmccuan
..... but the big Ford rotors and calipers sure look sweet. Haven't checked into the cost of the Ford calipers, but will today ... I thought Tom might chime in on this, but not so far...


I dont know how I missed this thread.;) I am chiming in now. Look
on www.stangsuspension.com and look at 94-04 Mustang. Those are the
ones that will fit my brackets. Thats just $180 bucks for a set of
new PBR 2 piston aluminum calipers - with pads.

http://www.stangsuspension.com/store/catalog/mach1calipers.jpg

Rotors :

http://www.stangsuspension.com/store/catalog/cobracdslfrontz.jpg


quote:Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten
The brakes I did using the wimpy little Avanti rotors....will lock up the 7" wide tread tires in a big hurry. Why then do I need more brake power?

Just because you can lock up the brakes doesn't mean you are stopping
the car well. Manual four wheel drum brakes will lock all four wheels
just fine.;)[:p]

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

Mike Van Veghten
06-14-2007, 03:55 PM
See Tom...I was trying to be nice to you.......
mYou apparently missed the point altogether. And yea..I see your little faces!

But again.....if something works well...why go hugely overboard!?

As Tom (Swifster) says, "jlmccuan" is apparently looking for the show factor.
While I do want to stop...I don't want to use up the car getting there!

Mike

wcarroll@outrageous.net
06-14-2007, 03:59 PM
My suggestion is purely based on cost and performance. If you've decided for whatever reason that you want 4-wheel discs and are prepared to invest the time and money, then definitely consider the Cobra setup.

Example: You can buy a whole Mustang Cobra 4-wheel disc brake kit with calipers, rotors, brackets, pads, hoses, etc. for $850. Thats only $100 more than what the Turner REAR kit costs alone -which means you're getting (2) front calipers, pads and rotors for that extra $100!!!

jlmccuan
06-14-2007, 09:36 PM
Tom, do you have your front brackets available yet? I've looked at several Cobra setups and am really leaning that way.

sbca96
06-15-2007, 04:41 AM
If you send me an Email I can add you to my update list. As of now I
will have 4 sets made of the 10 originally planned. The CNC shop had
pointed out that getting them installed on four cars will give a good
idea of how well Studebaker kept their tolerances. From the responses
I have received from those getting updates, roughly three are ready to
test fit them. The CNC shop is supposed to get back to me on the side
engraving, but other than that, fixtures are made, and the CNC has the
program functioning. Drop in the 6061-T6 aircraft structural grade
dull bar stock and out comes shiny stuff :

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96/images/avantibrakeproject/First_Article/CNC_installed_003a.jpg

Mike, I am not sure where you get this "weight" issue from. I have
already posted the weight of the bracket, which is less than that tiny
steel bracket Stude used on their disc setup. I haven't weighed the
Cobra parts, but I guess I could. The PBR aluminum caliper has got to
be less then the all steel Stude/Dunlop/Bendix caliper. That leaves
the rotor. You got me there, I am positive the rotor weighs more. The
aluminum wheels should weigh less than the stamped steel Studes, but
even if they dont, the improvement in handling is worth the tradeoff.

I am not doing this only for "show", I expect them to function too, my
posts of the stopping distance with the GT brakes show that. Once the
power steering saga is over, I will get some Cobra results. I plan on
upgrading the rear brakes to the Cobra size as well. I need to get a
few dimensions off the rear of my buddies Mustang with Baer brakes.:D

I think I did get your point, I just had limited time to respond while
on my break at work - made a joke/comment on what caught my eye. I do
not feel that even the Cobra brakes are hugely overboard. My wife has
warped all four rotors on her '95 Camaro Z28 in her "regular" driving.
She feels the 11" all around are too small for her, and complains that
they fade too often.

As with the 17" wheels that some feel look like "baby buggy" wheels, I
can honestly say 13" brakes are not "huge" anymore. There are newer
cars coming out with even larger ones. 17" wheels started showing up
on factory cars in the early 90's! Now thats considered too small. I
do agree that someone needs to PLAN on what they want from their car,
and then make decisions based on that. The 11" GT brakes worked quite
well with the factory Avanti rear drums. But who wants to see a rusty
ugly drum through a nice set of polished 17" wheels?;)

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Cobra_brake_breakin/cobra_brake_testdrive004a.jpg

Tom

bams50
06-15-2007, 07:12 AM
quote:Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten

May I give the gang thinking about monster brakes something to think about......

Most Studes are "fairly" light compared to most cars.
99.9% of the Studes on the road have approxamatly 6" to 7" wide tread on the tires.
It takes horse power to turn heavy wheels and brake rotors.
It takes gas to make that horse power to turn that heavy stuff.
It makes the shocks and springs work harder to control that new extra weight way out on the ends of the spindles.
Most don't drive their Studes much over the posted speed limit...if at all.

So...thinking about all this for a second or two.....
Why "over brake" your car?

If you are wanting gas milage, you are wanting the best E.T. slip numbers at the drag strip you can possibly get, if you want as good handling a car you can get with Stude parts....

Don't overload the car with monster rotors and calipers!

Mechanically...they just aren't needed/required to properly stop a 3300 lb. car.

Now if you are road racing or live in the mountains and love the twisty turns....go for it...but even there....be carefull to design a "system" that fits the car and what you will be doing with it.

I guess the guys that are just "showing" their cars and not really driving them, the extra weight and power will go a long way toward impressing the younger crowd.

The brakes I did using the wimpy little Avanti rotors....will lock up the 7" wide tread tires in a big hurry. Why then do I need more brake power? I've had a few sudden stops from 65 or so MPH...not a problem at all.
Of course my "reduced diameter" rotors in the back help stop the 9-3/4" wide tread tires on the back also.

By the way....none of this is in any way is bashing Tom (sbca96) for his efforts in comming up with his Mustang/Studebaker brake assembly. He's done a good job in adapting those parts.

It's just overall...mechanically...unless your Stude has 8" or 9" wide tires in front and is a road racing demon...with 3 or 4 hundred horse power...................?

Mike


I make it a practice when I quote someone to delete out all but the applicable part; this time is no different.

Mike has voiced my sentiments exactly. If you take out those road racing their Studes, and those that regularly drive in extremely mountainous areas, and those that want them for show purposes, that leaves probably 99 percent of Stude owners. Add in those that can't afford or don't want to get into a project like this; how many does that leave you with?

I read the tech board here because I'm always interested in learning; but where this subject is concerned I've never quite gotten the purpose- at least for my needs...? Tom (sbca96) has done some great work here- not just in this area, but in others also- and goes to great effort to share the process and experience with us. I've never claimed to know everything- especially about Studes! So I've been learning and trying to find a reason for fancy (read:expensive) brake upgrades. I still am.

My purpose here is NOT to disrespect anyone's efforts in any way. I am a HUGE believer in Jim Turner's dual M/C conversion for safety reasons; and if one wanted, his disc conversion using basic, widely available stock rotor and caliper. Beyond that- as Mike stated-

......................?

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

sbca96
06-15-2007, 12:25 PM
Robert,

This thread was started concerning the big brakes, which as I have
posted up many different times still isnt "expensive". Granted they
do require 17" wheels - which adds to the cost.

The other side of the coin, using the modern Mustang parts is the GT
setup which also uses the same mounting points as the Cobra. If we go
with the GT setup Autozone carries EVERYTHING, and it would be roughly
$225.00 including tax for :

Two Reman Calipers (they have yellow or red for more)
Two new 11 inch vented rotors (25 bucks a piece)
One metallic brake pad set
Two rubber brake lines

I have a few people interested in this setup, with the high estimate
on the CNC brackets thats about $475 total for the GT brakes, yet
it still gives you the ability to upgrade later to Cobra brakes, since
the brackets will fit either caliper. Hope that makes sense.

Tom

John Kirchhoff
06-15-2007, 02:24 PM
If a person wants showy, pretty brake discs peeking out from behind those hot dog wheels, they probably going to need those huge discs to be functional. Cast iron is about the best metal when it comes to friction material, but it rusts with the slightest provocation and rusty disc would surely detract from those glamorous wheels. Stainless steel doesn't rust, but it doesn't have the friction qualities of cast iron, especially when wet. Take my word for it, non-drilled stainless discs in the rain are absolutely useless until you've traveled far enough to squeeze all the water out. (Grabbing a handfull of brake and having nothing happen makes a certain part of your body pucker up like slamming a screen door.) The only alternative is to use metallic pads which work much better when wet but eat up discs faster than will organic or non-metallic pads. If you're into pretty, scored stainless discs aren't nearly as pretty as they are when new. If you want something really pretty, go for the chrome discs like you see on show bikes. Of course you better be prepared to drag your feet on the ground because they won't stop you from even a crawl, but who needs stopping power when pretty is best viewed from a standstill? Unless there's some high tech metals lurking around out there that look AND stop well, pretty discs are going to have to be larger and/or with more pistons and lining surface. But then again, that's just my experience with moaning, groaning, ineffective wet stainless discs. By the way, I'm not trying to be opinionated and tell anyone what's best for them, but I only know what works best for me.

sbca96
06-15-2007, 03:05 PM
Well, thats the beauty of the discs that I got from Stangsuspension,
they are actually cast iron, but zinc plated. The plating will come
off at the pad surface area in the first few miles, but the rest of
the disc stays pretty much rust free and easy to clean. The surface
that the pads ride on can still rust, but as soon as you drive the car
the surface gets cleaned off again. So far they look great. In this
picture you can see the used rotor and the difference between the pad
surface and the areas still zinc plated. Also in the picture is the
original prototype bracket - for comparison to the CNC one.

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96/images/avantibrakeproject/First_Article/CNC_installed_001a.jpg

Tom


quote:Originally posted by John Kirchhoff
Cast iron is about the best metal when it comes to friction material, but it rusts with the slightest provocation and rusty disc would surely detract from those glamorous wheels. Stainless steel doesn't rust, but it doesn't have the friction qualities of cast iron, especially when wet.

bams50
06-15-2007, 06:40 PM
Tom, your explanation- and price- sounds pretty good! But being a Lark guy I don't ever foresee myself wanting non-stock wheels. In fact, while I like the dual m/c conversion, I've hesitated on the disc conversion because I can't use the stock wheels with it...

I can see it comes down to how one sees their Stude; for me, my Larks are my silly little clown cars...

Maybe if I had an Avanti...[8D]

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

sbca96
06-15-2007, 09:12 PM
Some people might find calling Larks "silly little clown cars" just a
tad offensive.;)[:p]

I dont know for sure, but I would assume that the Turner setup would
require "disc brake" wheels, like the Stude disc brake cars. Though
I have not confirmed it personally, I have been told that 90's Crown
Victoria 15" steel wheels will clear the Mustang GT brakes, which can
allow you to keep the factory wheel covers & "hide" the modern stuff.

Cost can become a consideration even when you decide to keep factory
4 wheel drums on your Stude - those drums arent cheap either. I have
heard 100 or more a piece. When it costs more to rebuild an outdated
brake system like drums (on an average 3300 pound car), discs start to
sound pretty good. A dual master cylinder is a MUST on every Stude.;)

Tom

Mike Van Veghten
06-16-2007, 01:51 AM
sbca96 Tom wrote -


quote:Manual four wheel drum brakes will lock all four wheels
just fine.

I forgot to mention the other day....wrong again pal...

The working OEM brakes on my 54 Champian Conestoga...with the tires currently on the front....would "not" lock. The OEM rears would just barely squeal the tire slightly, on dry pavement and not at all on rough contrete. That was with the small, 7" tire.

Just too small, not enough power, even for it's day, not to mention a slightly fatter tire.

Not sure about my 59 Lark wagon as it already had the D.L. kit on the front when I bought it.
And the brakes on my 60 Lark wagon...wouldn't lock either...but that's most likely cause they were worn out and kinda work hardened and cracked from age.

As I may have mentioned...the Conestogas brakes will haul it down fine now. Admittedly....I've yet to see how they work at the drag strip. Will let you know some time in the future.

Mike

Mike

sbca96
06-16-2007, 04:41 AM
I dont know how I can be wrong, I had it happen to me a few times in
the '60 Hawk. I witnessed it first hand - sliding into the side of a
mid-80's Subaru wagon that pulled out in front of me. Locked up quite
easy - all four wheels. That's a 11" finned brake drum '60 Hawk with
factory 15" wheels on it. Then the flip-side was over heating them in
traffic and pushing with all my might to get the car to slow down. In
a day when all the other cars on the road had equally poor brakes, it
wasnt a big deal, but today that leaves you imbedded in the backend
of a Yukon, or running over the neighbors kids.[B)]

Tom


quote:Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten
I forgot to mention the other day....wrong again pal...

bams50
06-16-2007, 06:36 AM
quote:Originally posted by sbca96

Some people might find calling Larks "silly little clown cars" just a
tad offensive.;)[:p]



Why? If that's how I see them, why would anyone care? If someone sees Larks as angry, fire-breathing dragon cars, I wouldn't care one bit; what's that got to do with me?

Over the years I've had most years and models of Camaros, Mustangs, Chargers, 'Cudas, several Vettes- you name it. Also drove oval-track race cars for 24 years. Now I own Lincolns and Studes. I still love the muscle cars, but got bored with row after row of different iterations of the same few cars. Don't have to rattle windows or smoke the tires off what I drive to have fun- I leave that to my mid-life crisis buddies. Instead I drive these funny-looking little cars simply because you can't look at one without smiling!:D

I'm frequently needled about my love for Studes (my racing buddies see me pull up in my snot green Lark wagon and just sadly shake their heads;))... I love 'em b/c 1. They're different from what I see everywhere I go and 2. They let me have an old car to have fun with for relatively no money!

Larks are what they are; if one's sole purpose in owning a collector car is to impress others with how tough and mean their car is, they're setting themselves up to be constantly frustrated if they try to do that wit a Lark! But if they want something different, and want to learn about and drive something you don't see very often- and want kids and women to chuckle and say, "aww, how cute"... they'll...

"Love that Lark"!![^]

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-16-2007, 06:46 AM
Also- yes, the Turner disc kit does require disc brake wheels; one of the reasons I haven't made the conversion very high on my priority list. I've heard Crown Vic wheels, and 80s full-size Chrysler product wheels fit, but haven't researched whether the factory wheel covers will fit either- and I prefer the stock look for mine. Also have seen them with Ford Ranger p/u wheels; don't care for that look either.

When I get to needing brake work on mine, I'll likely convert them then.

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

John Kirchhoff
06-16-2007, 10:49 AM
As far as being able to lock up the wheels, I'm sure that was much easier with the skinny stock bias tires than with today's larger contact patch radials. Being able to lock the wheels isn't necessarily all good because that's when you loose traction and control. We used to have a '63 Chrysler with powerful, super sensitive power brakes (drums). That feature was actually a detriment in an emergency situation because your first reaction is to stomp on the pedal...you aren't thinking about applying just a bit of pressure on the pedal. It's both hands on the wheel and both feet on the pedal and not "hmmm, I'll apply just a tad bit more pressure because I don't want to lock the wheels".....

jlmccuan
06-16-2007, 04:07 PM
I really appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions. If we can work out the timing, I am inclined to go with 13" in front and 12" in the rear, using the Cobra components.

Any suggestions concerning using the existing brake lines and coverting the type of brake fluid? Or relace all the lines while it's up on the rack?

This is one of 3 major improvement projects slated for this summer on the Avanti, the other 2 being suspension and transmission. This is a great forum, friendly folks and tons of good info. Thanks

Jim

jlmccuan
06-16-2007, 04:35 PM
Hopefully, this will change my sig

Jim
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/AvantiSignature.jpg
1966 Avanti II

sbca96
06-16-2007, 08:23 PM
Robert .. I was just playin!;)

Jim,

The posts I made on the rear setup, you can see what I did there, I
had to replace the whole line to the rear, because the single hose in
the center was worn from rubbing on something, and when I tried to
get it loosened the whole tube spun (not the flare nut) twisting the
tube and snapping it off. I ended up using two Mustang rear lines and
routing new steel lines to each side. In the front I used two Mustang
GT lines, even modifiying them to fit the Cobra calipers, since I did
not want to relocate the factory steel ends. That seemed like it was
necessary with the stainless steel braided lines I got with the Cobra
calipers since they are stiff. The Mustang lines are mounted high on
the body, and drop down - something thats not easy to do on the Stude.
The rubber lines flex just fine, but the SST flex lines dont. I might
get a bug to relocate the stock ends, by using a union and directing
it to a "better" location .. but for now it works fine with rubber.;)

Nice picture! What color is that? Dark cherry?

Tom

jlmccuan
06-16-2007, 11:00 PM
Sometimes it is maroon, sometimes black, sometimes brown, sometimes kind of a purple. It kind of grows on you. Thanks for the info.

Jim
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/AvantiSignature.jpg
1966 Avanti II RQA 0088

Neal in NM
06-17-2007, 09:28 AM
I am curious as to why you decided to use aluminum for your caliper bracket. I would be very concerned about warping from the heating and cooling cycles. Did you have the aluminum stressed relieved? Are you including a dust shield on the inside?

I am in the process of trying to mount disc brakes on my 48 M-16 and I will probably use steel for my brackets. I think I have figured out a suitable donor for the calipers and rotors, I just need to find the vehicle in the wrecking yard with the braking system intact.

btw; the work you have done looks great!!

Neal

sbca96
06-17-2007, 05:04 PM
Because of how much material needed to be removed to be able to make
the bracket out of a solid piece, steel would have been harder on the
tooling and not really gained much in strength. 6061-T6 is what they
use to build aircraft and 7075 is used in very high stress areas. If
I went with steel, I would make the part thinner, and that would take
away the grease trap (like the other brackets out there). Once it is
thinner its about the same strength as my thicker 6061 part. Heat is
not really an issue, we ran the numbers on thinner steel vs a thicker
aluminum part and the aluminum actually distorted less. This was at
an extreme number you would never see on a car - or something else is
going to fail! Most of your aftermarket brackets similar to mine are
made from 6061, not to mention its lighter, and creates its own layer
of protection from the elements. Steel is also sketchy in which type
you get, some of the cheaper materials out there have a lot of foreign
material in them that can cause cracks over time. 6061 is a high end
material that has to meet certain standards. I kicked around 7075, but
since my bracket is pretty much a straight line shot to the caliper, I
didnt see the merit in paying 4 to 10 times as much for material. I've
seen a few kits that make a 3 to 4 inch "jog" to mount the caliper out
centered on the rotor. Those make sense to use the higher strength of
7075, or an alloy steel. I posted the FEA results in a past thread. I
feel it past with flying colors, having the same factor 3 safety margin
that the auto industry uses.

Keep in mind that ALL of your aftermarket wheels are aluminum, they
are not made from billet 6061-T6, they are surprisingly thin, being in
the neighborhood of 3/4 inch thick in profile, AND they see enormous
side load stresses. A caliper bracket only sees radial stress, which
is along its widest/strongest point. Also a caliper bracket will see
its max stress RIGHT to the point of wheel lock, and then that drops
off after the tire contact patch lets go of the ground.

Tom


quote:Originally posted by Neal in NM

I am curious as to why you decided to use aluminum for your caliper bracket. I would be very concerned about warping from the heating and cooling cycles. Did you have the aluminum stressed relieved? Are you including a dust shield on the inside?