Transmission / Overdrive: To Install 700R Or Keep The T85

[JoeHall]

Now would be a good time to install a 700R in the GT, since I'll be swapping engines anyway. It currently has a T85 that is sweet as it gets. But thinking down the road, this car's a keeper and likely to be driven into older age. So, just wondering if it'd be smart to install a 700R, since there may come a point where a stick may become a PITA, especially in increasingly crowded driving conditions.

It will take about $300 to replace the clutch disc, pressure plate, t/o bearing & pilot bearing when doing the engine swap. I guess the 700R would be more like $2000 when all is done, but at least I could subtract the $300 for the clutch stuff.

Just thinking.

[starliner62]

As much as I would like to keep our 58 original, I am leaning towards a 700R. With the amount of road time we plan on seeing with Christine, it only seems logical. It sure will be easier on the engine.

[candbstudebakers]

Joe are you sure you have a T-85 in a hawk? all the T-85's I have seen are short shaft and 2 piece drive shaft, I might be wrong but all late model cars I have see use the T-86 with the V-8.

[Mike Van Veghten]

Joe -

Might think about a T-200-4R rather than the 700-R4.
Simillarly as strong, better gear ratios, smaller, lighter, less reciprocating mass. Simillar cost to rebuild.

Just a thought.

Mike

[gordr]

Joe -

Might think about a T-200-4R rather than the 700-R4.
Simillarly as strong, better gear ratios, smaller, lighter, less reciprocating mass. Simillar cost to rebuild.

Just a thought.

Mike

LOL. The Flightomatic in my Gt Hawk has zero reciprocating mass. Plenty of rotating mass, though.

Just funnin' with you, Mike. I think your suggestion of the 200R is sound.

[PackardV8]

Hi, Joe,

Agree, the T85 is the best standard shift transmission for any highway-driven Studebaker.

Joe are you sure you have a T-85 in a hawk?

Joe is a mix-and-match master. He's put Studebaker truck T89s behind Packard V8s as well as the Studebaker V8s.

Agree with Mike, if swapping in an overdrive automatic, go with a 200-4R. Better all around, albiet more expensive.

I've got a 700R4 in my Avanti and it cost $2000 by the time it was done.

Of course, you could do it right and use a Packard V8 in front of the 200-4R.

jack vines

[sbca96]

The 200R is a light duty V6 trans, in stock form behind a healthy 289 it will be
beyond its rating. To properly use one, it MUST be upgraded accordingly. The
700 is a V8 trans and can used "out of the box". Either trans avoid pre-1988.
When budget is a concern, a 700 is the better bet, as good working examples
can be found for a couple hundred. Upgraded 200Rs will set you back in the
$1000-1500 dollar range, those that recommend them rarely point that out.

Tom

[41 Frank]

I've been running a 200 4R behind my R-2 engine which I would consider healthy as it regularly gets into the 13's at the 1/4 mile drags. Bought it from A&A Transmissions in Independence,Mo. for $520.00 7 years ago, including convertor and TV cable. No problems so far. I have no idea what is in it as far as HD parts, if any, is concerned. Built right they can handle up to 500hp.

[sweetolbob]

The 200R is a light duty V6 trans, in stock form behind a healthy 289 it will be
beyond its rating. To properly use one, it MUST be upgraded accordingly. The
700 is a V8 trans and can used "out of the box". Either trans avoid pre-1988.
When budget is a concern, a 700 is the better bet, as good working examples
can be found for a couple hundred. Upgraded 200Rs will set you back in the
$1000-1500 dollar range, those that recommend them rarely point that out.

Tom

I think Tom meant 200R4 ---- but

Just so we are all on the same page here, The 200R is an early GM POS three speed auto transmission but the later 200R4 was put behind a lot of mid-80's mid size cars. The 200R4 in my 83 Avanti came from an 86 442 Olds so GM thought they would take at least 442 and Buick GN power. Mine was rebuilt to stage II form to handle the HP my 355 could generate.

Tom is correct in the fact that the 700R4 was built to handle big car and truck V8 power so it is indeed tougher out of the box. But if you are going to the trouble of installing one, you'll want it rebuilt anyway. The 200R4's main advantage is a smaller case size and easier to install in older Studes. In any case, don't go much newer than 91 or so as you will be getting into the E series R4's which use full ECM control. You want the ones with a TV cable.

Bob

[Mike Van Veghten]

Um...much like the much miligned Power Glide...the T-200 can be made to withstand over 900hp...!
And for under.....$2000.00 the T-200-4R can be made to withstand ALL but the most powerfull twin turbo, built for Bonneville Stude engine.
This...I know for fact.

And the 4R version is much the same trans. under the skin as the three speed version.

I'm having my second 200-4R built for my 299cu.in. powered 54 wagon. The first one is behind my 550hp Chevy on my 60 Lark wagon. Both have internal trans. brakes for a more like manual trans. start.
The builder knows that it will be drag raced, should have near 350hp.

So much for Toms experienced comments.

And yea...thanks for the catch Gord...!

Mike

[Gunslinger]

I've always understood that the 200R4 can be built to be as strong or stronger than a 700R4...GM certainly did it for the Buick Gran Sport. What many techs will tell you is that the 700R4 is already strong without the building up so they feel it's more cost effective.

The 200R4 supposedly has a better spread of gears for most cars so go with what works best. My '70 Avanti has a 700R4 and my only criticism is first gear is very low and the upshift to 2nd is almost immediate. Maybe a 200R4 might have been a better choice...don't know. I went with the speed shop's recommendation when they installed the crate engine...they don't even want to deal with 200R4's...don't really know why.

It did take some time to get accustomed to starting off without smoking the tires...that could be as much due to the front weight bias of the Avanti as the transmission.

[PackardV8]

While most of us know what you mean, the nomenclature is key to technical discussions. Here's what GM named these babies:

TH200-4R and TH700R4

The 200R is a light duty V6 trans, in stock form behind a healthy 289 it will be
beyond its rating. To properly use one, it MUST be upgraded accordingly. The
700 is a V8 trans and can used "out of the box".

And yes, Tom (AKA sbca96) will for the millionth time always advocate for the TH700R4 and denigrate the TH200-4R, while and Mike, gunslinger and I will vote TH200-4R. Some things never change.

jack vines

[JoeHall]

Joe are you sure you have a T-85 in a hawk? all the T-85's I have seen are short shaft and 2 piece drive shaft, I might be wrong but all late model cars I have see use the T-86 with the V-8.

Bob, It is a T85. Just needed a driveshaft with floating front yoke to run it in the GT.

[Mike Van Veghten]

Gunslinger -

No...it's most probably the monster first gear in your T-700..!
And yes, you are correct, the gear ratio spread is much nicer in the T200-4R. Whether you are on the street or drag racing. Many don't seem to realize both the benifit and the "downfall" of the super low gear in drag racing..or even for daily driving for that matter. While it will...get you moving quickly...you still have to shift into second. The large drop, first to second is why you'll never see a T-700-4R in drag racing, while there are several builders building the T-200's for drag racing (albeit the three speed version..!).

Mike

P.s. - When I had the T-700-4R in my old 67 Chevy II...I had it modified to be a manual shift trans. Saying that, I hardly ever used first gear..!

[PackardV8]

The large drop, first to second is why you'll never see a T-700-4R in drag racing,

C'mon Mike, there are hundreds of 9-sec and 10-sec Camaros running 700R4s every weekend.

jack vines