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51studer
06-10-2007, 01:24 AM
I bought all the front suspension bushings I could from SA Studebaker parts. Unfortunately I couldn't get the upper A arm inside bushings. I know it isn't much more than a rubber hose cut to the right size, but I would rather do the right thing here. Can anyone let me know what to do here. Also, I rebuilt the spindle/kingpin/steering knuckle and the book required a cork gasket on the bearing, but I thought cork was worthless so I left nothing there. Can someone tell me what else to do there? As well I am looking for a coil spring to replace my factory spring, I want to lower the front 4 inches but don't want to cut the original coils. Is there a later model spring I could use to replace my coils and lower 4 inches? help please.

Alan
06-10-2007, 01:55 AM
The A-arm bushings are TRW #1WW44 or Moog #K3044. The cork gasket keeps the grease where it belongs. On the springs you can use Chevy springs off of 73 up Chevelle / Monte Carlo, 70 up Camaro / Firebird or 75 up Novas 5 1/2" X 9 1/2" but you will have to use Performance suspension's urethane spring isolators which are indented for the non-flattened ends of the springs. Then you still will run into problems since the lower arm will not be parallel to the ground anymore. The geometry will be way off. It will not corner well. Sounds like a accident waiting to happen.

51studer
06-10-2007, 02:01 AM
Thank you ALAN!!!!!! I will look into it.

N8N
06-10-2007, 09:01 AM
I think that was a typo on Alan's part, I show TRW 12202 as the upper inner bushing. But isn't a '51 threaded steel, instead of rubber, or am I misremembering?

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Dick Steinkamp
06-10-2007, 09:52 AM
quote:Originally posted by 51studer
Is there a later model spring I could use to replace my coils and lower 4 inches?


I know..."if it's too low, you're too old" [:o)], BUT...I don't think you want to lower it 4" with the stock suspension. You'll have virtually no suspension travel, you'll have a tough time finding wheels and tires that don't rub, you'll bottom out driving over telephone wire shadows, and the suspension geometry will be pretty screwed up. If you want it that low, you probably need an aftermarket set up (Morrison or Fat Man) that will give you full suspension travel and tuck the wheels in some to allow them to sit under the peak of the fender (by the way...IMHO the tucked wheel thing looks a little goofy). You might also consider air bags (with the aftermarket suspension) so you could have a decent ride height but lower it when it's parked.

My Starliner is down about 2" from stock by cutting about 3/4th turn of the stock coil springs.



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

lstude
06-10-2007, 12:20 PM
quote:My Starliner is down about 2" from stock by cutting about 3/4th turn of the stock coil springs.


I don't want to hijack this thread, but that is good information to know, Dick. I want to lower the front of my 52 about 2". I had no idea how much to cut.

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/Mein64DaytonaatBradfieldssm2.jpghttp://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/52Commanderoutofgarage4-3.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
06-10-2007, 03:07 PM
quote:Originally posted by lstude
I had no idea how much to cut.


Keep in mind that the front end of these Studes come apart very easily. You can always cut a little more a second time if it isn't low enough, but it's hard to put metal back if it's too low:D. Also, let the car "settle" several days before you decide to cut again.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

51studer
06-10-2007, 06:12 PM
Thanks guys. I was going to lower the front 4" because I have 4" lowering blocks on the rear axle and I'm just trying to match the same height. I had a feeling it might be hard to do the front 4", but I figured I would try 4" and if it sucks, then I would try something different. I am going with 195/65/15 tires on the car, but I need to get those bushings before I can do anything. As well, I still need to get the engine finished as the guy that machined the block didn't clean ANY!!!!! of the internal oil passages or lifter area. I also need to get a T-5 from a mustang to adapt to the engine once the engine is done. Another thing......How do I get the darn steering box off the steering column? I had a wobble in the steering at the coupling from the box to the shaft. Sorry if I'm changing the subject, but the previous questions were already answered. :D[:p]

PackardV8
06-10-2007, 06:52 PM
Greetings, All,

Your car, your money, your look, but suggest you consider an air bag suspension conversion. It allows laying frame around the fairgrounds and still driving safely on the highway. Figure about $2500 plus labor.

First of all, the OEM front suspension CAN'T be lowered 4" and still be driven safely. Measure the distance between the rubber bumper on the lower A-arm and the frame. I don't think there was 4" of travel there when the springs were new. Running on or even too close to the bump stops will not only be uncomfortable and unsafe, it will break parts quickly.

BTW, with 4" blocks on the rear, don't try any burnouts. that extra leverage against the springs will wrap them more and cause wheel hop. Then, the tapered axle will not like that at all.

thnx, jack vines.

PackardV8

Dick Steinkamp
06-10-2007, 08:43 PM
quote:Originally posted by 51studer
I am going with 195/65/15 tires on the car


No offense, but those will look like space saver spares on the car.

quote:
How do I get the darn steering box off the steering column? I had a wobble in the steering at the coupling from the box to the shaft.


??? You can take the JACKET off the steering shaft (clamp around the base down at the steering box). There is no coupling that I know of at the base of the shaft. If it wobbles there, you have major problems.



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Roscomacaw
06-10-2007, 09:51 PM
Jason,

I don't see where you mention what year Stude you have - UNLESS - your forum handle "51studer" is a clue. If you have a '51 Stude, then "like pieces of rubber hose" the bushings AREN'T! '51 & '52 used threaded steel bushings and shafts for the inner A-arms, lower AND upper. '53 and later used the rubber/steel bushings, but they're much more that simple pieces of rubber stock.[:I]
Only the R3/R4 cars of '63/4 reverted to the steel inner A-arm bushings. And at that - only the upper A-arm got them. This was undoubtedly done to enhance handling in those cars.[:p]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

showbizkid
06-11-2007, 07:29 AM
quote:Originally posted by hotwheels63r2

Many models of Studes that had a 'cut rubber tube' or 'cork' in there as a seal can be updated to an O ring on the shafts and the king pins.


Mike, would you elaborate on this? I'm rebuilding my front end right now.


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

Scott
06-11-2007, 10:10 AM
195/65/R15 is exactly the size tires I have on my stock 1973 VW beetle. I thought about what they would like on a Studebaker, but I figured the profile would be too low.

Jeff_H
06-11-2007, 11:31 AM
quote:quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by hotwheels63r2

Many models of Studes that had a 'cut rubber tube' or 'cork' in there as a seal can be updated to an O ring on the shafts and the king pins.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Mike, would you elaborate on this? I'm rebuilding my front end right now.


I think he is talking about the cork seal that goes at the bottom of the spindle to keep grease from coming out at the bottom. I heard a O-ring can be used instead. When I rebuilt mine I found a o-ring that fits in there perfectly and didn't use the cork. So far looks like its working well keeping the grease in as when I grease it I get the excess to come out the top around of the thrust bearing instead, like it should.

Jeff in ND
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/ee-engineer/53byalaketiny.jpg
'53 Champion Hardtop

51studer
06-11-2007, 06:41 PM
I took the clamp off already and the shaft won't come out of the steering box. I looked in the repair manual and it said to take the steering wheel off and pull the whole assembly out of the car through the front. About the tires, I'll see what happens when I get to that point, that's a bit down the road still, I need rims first. Where did you guys get these "O rings" from?

51studer
06-11-2007, 06:42 PM
sorry, my car is a 1951 commander

Alan
06-11-2007, 08:02 PM
N8, TRW # 12202's are for Avanti's lower.

Roscomacaw
06-11-2007, 09:17 PM
OK, so now we know it's a '51. I got my shiny, new parts catalog from SI yesterday and on page 179 is listed their part# 531191 Pin Kit. Upper inner 1951-52 car, all models. Includes pin, bushings, seals and zerks. $62.00:D

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

N8N
06-12-2007, 08:33 AM
Alan,

are you getting these numbers out of an old parts catalog or something? If so, is there any chance I could beg you to scan the pertinent pages for me? If there's an error on my spreadsheet I certainly would like to get it fixed (and add any other useful info. that I can glean)

thanks,

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Alan
06-13-2007, 01:15 AM
N8, That number is out of a Avanti owners news letter. That was written up by Jon Myers.

51studer
06-13-2007, 09:53 PM
Ok, now what is "SI", where can I get em', Which part number is right I'm now confused? I almost ordered the 12202 bushings from NAPA, so I need to cross another part #? :(

51studer
06-13-2007, 09:55 PM
I wish I could just put a picture on here to show you what I'm talking about, how can I do that?

N8N
06-13-2007, 10:11 PM
SI = Studebaker International

also try SASCO

see here re: photos

http://studebakerdriversclub.com/sdc_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3219

here's an easy way to clarify your bushing situation: on the front and rear of the upper control arms, where the inner shaft that bolts to the crossmember goes through them, do you have a bolt head and a large washer, or a big hex with a grease fitting in the middle? If the former, you have rubber bushings. If the latter, you have the solid steel threaded bushings.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

51studer
06-15-2007, 01:47 AM
http://www.studebaker-intl.com/images/525035.jpg

This is the part I need. SI # 525035 Do these look familiar? It does look like the ones I'm missing, can anyone verify?

51studer
06-15-2007, 02:03 AM
I guess I might have been saying the wrong word. I have the large hex with the grease fitting, but that might be what you guys are thinking of being the bushing, I need the rubber seals that go between the large hex with grease fitting and the pin that the threaded hex threads to............ I always thought the rubber piece is the bushing.

JDP
06-15-2007, 02:09 AM
I think the confusion on the bushing comes from the R3's Avanti's using the early steel bushing like they did in 1951.

JDP/Maryland

64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
63 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

N8N
06-15-2007, 09:27 AM
Those are just grease seals, and you could probably make your own by cutting an appropriately sized piece of heater hose with a razor blade (that's what they look like.)

I'm not certain that I would go to the bother of replacing them, if the bushings are in good shape. ISTM that there is only a finite number of times that you can R&R those bushings before the control arm strips out. Just make sure that the bushings are kept well greased...

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

51studer
07-02-2007, 09:00 PM
Well, got the heater hose, hope it works. Thanks guys.