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vegas paul
06-09-2007, 04:23 PM
The fuel pump on my 51 Champion 6 has an operating arm that points "up" when installed in the engine. I was helping another Stude-lover with his '57 (6 cylinder, basically the same engine) and his fuel pump arm points down. Just curious - the arm looks like it depends on engine rotation in a certain direction to operate. What gives? I assumed (and I know what happens when I assume) that these engines were essentially the same.

My pump has the glass bulb at the inlet, and his doesn't, and his whole pump looks like it's built upside down from mine. It is apparent that these are not interchangeable - his pump would probably interfere with my engine's motor mount as well. Any easy explanations on this? Just curious.

Las Vegas, NV
'51 Champion Business Coupe G899965 10G-Q4-1434
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s144/vegas_paul/1462673_2_350.jpg?t=1180041622 http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s144/vegas_paul/graciestude.jpg?t=1180041703

StudeRich
06-09-2007, 05:23 PM
Yes, when they redesigned the 170 cu. in. Champion engine and came out with the 1955 Sweepstakes 185 Six, they redesigned the engine mounts AND the engine mount brackets, this required a newly designed and upgraded fuel pump as well. They do not interchange.

The original (OEM) '55-'58 Champion fuel pumps DID have a glass bowl and filter, but new AC type replacements do not.


quote:Originally posted by vegas paul

Any easy explanations on this? Just curious.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

vegas paul
06-09-2007, 05:59 PM
Thanks StudeRich - My understanding was that the 6 cylinder engine remained relatively unchanged from the 40's to the 60's. So other than the placement of the engine mounts and maybe modernizing the fuel pump, will the older ones work in the newer engines and vice versa? Does the direction of the rocker arm make any difference?(the engines still rotate in the same direction right!?!)

Las Vegas, NV
'51 Champion Business Coupe G899965 10G-Q4-1434
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s144/vegas_paul/1462673_2_350.jpg?t=1180041622 http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s144/vegas_paul/graciestude.jpg?t=1180041703

StudeRich
06-09-2007, 06:48 PM
I am no expert on 6's, I normally stay as far away from those as I can!

However I do know that, when I worked at the Studebaker dealer in L.A. Calif. that there was an adapter kit to put the '59-'60 Lark engines in older cars, because there were plenty of those, and NO older replacement engines. The bellhousing is different, also the rear plate between the block & Bellhousing, somewhere along the way it was changed along with the oil pan and front engine mount, 50's have a single center mount.

The person to ask, may be Bill Cathcart!

It may be a mute point because the fuel pump won't fit, but yes the cam does still turn counterclockwise!


quote:Originally posted by vegas paul

Thanks StudeRich - My understanding was that the 6 cylinder engine remained relatively unchanged from the 40's to the 60's. So other than the placement of the engine mounts and maybe modernizing the fuel pump, will the older ones work in the newer engines and vice versa? Does the direction of the rocker arm make any difference?(the engines still rotate in the same direction right!?!)

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

lstude
06-09-2007, 08:24 PM
A friend and I rebuilt a 50 champion engine back in the 80s and I remember something about oil pan differences between the years.

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/Mein64DaytonaatBradfieldssm2.jpghttp://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/52Commanderoutofgarage4-3.jpg

r1lark
06-09-2007, 09:59 PM
quote:Originally posted by vegas paul

Thanks StudeRich - My understanding was that the 6 cylinder engine remained relatively unchanged from the 40's to the 60's. So other than the placement of the engine mounts and maybe modernizing the fuel pump, will the older ones work in the newer engines and vice versa? Does the direction of the rocker arm make any difference?(the engines still rotate in the same direction right!?!)

Las Vegas, NV
'51 Champion Business Coupe G899965 10G-Q4-1434
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s144/vegas_paul/1462673_2_350.jpg?t=1180041622 http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s144/vegas_paul/graciestude.jpg?t=1180041703

I am going to stick my neck out here and say.....yes, the older Champion fuel pumps will work in the newer Champion flatheads, and vice-versa - as long as the pump will physically fit (ie, no interference from motor mounts, etc).

This is what I base this statement on:
The '53 and '54 Champions [u]cars</u> used fuel pump part number 681107. This pump also subs back in Champion [u]cars</u> to at least 1947 per the parts manuals. In '55, the Champion [u]car</u> fuel pump part number changed, very possibly due to the motor mount changes as mentioned earlier. However, Champion-powered [u]trucks</u> also used this same fuel pump part number 681107 from '49 all the way thru '59. Also, the Champion camshaft, on which the fuel pump eccentric is cast as part of the cam, had the same part number from '47 (and maybe earlier) thru '60.

I am not positive about the OHV six engines starting in '61, I will have to compare the pumps.

Probably more info than you needed, but I needed to make sure since I am putting a '60 flathead in my '54 Champion, and planned to use the '54 fuel pump.

Paul

Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: http://hometown.aol.com/r1skytop/myhomepage/index.html

vegas paul
06-10-2007, 09:48 AM
r1clark - thanks for the research. I confirmed in my parts manual that this is correct. I still don't understand why the rocker arm points in the opposite direction - it seems (although this can't be true) that the up vs. down configurations are made for cams moving in opposite directions. Just one more mystery that I guess I wasn't meant to understand!

Las Vegas, NV
'51 Champion Business Coupe G899965 10G-Q4-1434
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s144/vegas_paul/1462673_2_350.jpg?t=1180041622 http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s144/vegas_paul/graciestude.jpg?t=1180041703