Over the Top Lark build

[Bob Andrews]

The thread about Nimesh's Avanti, especially Biggs' comments in post #13 have gotten me thinking about my own over-the-top project I've been planning; and would love to hear your thoughts on it, big-picture.

It's a '62 Daytona 2dr. HT with Skytop, R2/5 speed. My favorite Studebakers are Larks; my favorite year is '62; my favorite '62 Lark is the 2dr. HT; the ultimate Stude engine is the R2; and my favorite accessory is the Skytop. My goals are to build the car I want, exactly as I want it; assure that every inch has been refreshed for dependability reasons; and, to build it to the highest level I can, to see what I can really do. Reality of the times have put the project on hold, but I have the engine complete and done, solid CO body shell, Skytop roof, lots of NOS like fenders, hood, trunk, grille, lights, etc. etc. The plan has been to gather the pieces as they come along, then when times get better start the build.

Seeing Nimesh's car got me thinking. I thought about buying a Super Lark needing restoration and doing a correct stock restoration, but then I thought about upgrades I'd want- 5-speed, modern wiring system with power windows, later disc brakes, better power steering; and, I prefer the '62 body style, and Studebaker never built a '62 R2 Lark. So my plan made sense to me: Build just what I want, without worry of an inaccurate restoration. I have enjoyed the process of thinking, planning, gathering parts, etc. even though I cannot yet start the build.

Now I'm wondering if I should do this build at all. I won't be spending as much as Nimesh did, but it will still be substantial. The plan was body-off, since I wanted a top-quality car that would look stock but I could feel confident to jump in and drive cross-country if I wanted. But I realize Larks aren't the most popular car, plus '62s are less desirable.

That normally wouldn't matter, but my track record has been to have a car a few years then sell it and try something else. For a keeper it wouldn't matter, but for a guy that might want to sell, it's an issue. It would make more sense to put that kind of work and money into a more valuable car, and do it stock- worth more at sale time. Somebody like Nimesh can afford to lose tens of thousands of dollars and give away thousands of hours of skilled labor at sale time, but I cannot. I could do a lesser build, body-on, etc. and still have a very nice car, but that's not what I wanted to do.

So, we're just exploring here: What you do? Build as planned, cost/hours be damned? Nice car a level or two down? Scrap and build a valuable car?

Comments from everyone from newbies to BTDT guys appreciated.

[DEEPNHOCK]

One thing to consider is the end goal.
Making a plan is easy. Working that plan is hard.
One thing that gets fuzzy in the mix is of value stated. People get all ga-ga over the humongous numbers tossed around.
But if you do the work yourself, and spread it out over time, that number can be skewed for conversation sake, or perceived value sake.
If the car of your dreams really is the car of your dreams, then the money spent is an investment in your dream and a payment toward your goal.
That can be justification in itself.
But if your goal is to sell the vehicle eventually, then a cost/value accounting process kicks in and price becomes all important as it relates to resale value.
If your goal is to just posses your dream car, and not to actually go through the build process, then you are much better off to go get financing and just buy it finished.
Better to be making scheduled payments on a finished product that you can enjoy 'while' you are paying it off, rather than make unequal and often unscheduled payments during the often frustrating process of building, hoping it will turn out the way you dreamed it could be.
Buying finished is often better for those without build skills, as they usually end up at the mercy of those that posses those skills, and can generate income from providing those skills for a fee.
For a lot of people it is the joy of the build. The search for that hard to find part.
The satisfaction of craftsmanship. The joy of making friends with similar goals.
There is a definite value to that. Pooling knowledge.
Pooling talent. Pooling tooling (Hey! A rhyme! I'm a poet and don't know it!)
But.... (There's always a but....)
But if your desire has extreme financial limitations, sometimes the best laid plans cannot be achieved.
Even if you spread the cost out with time, it can be a steep uphill climb.
Finding $100 R3 heads is like winning the lottery. Sure, it could happen, but.....It probably won't.
Being realistic, setting obtainable goals (not necessarily easy goals, but obtainable goals), putting together a real plan......
These things will help one chart a path, with a target, and a goal.
That way you can work, and work, and work toward the finish line.
Whether you do it yourself, or farm it out... Either way.
One last thing...
It's not just the toy as the goal.....
It should also be the family....
It should also be the home...
It should also be the workshop....
There should be a balance. If one gets too focused on a singular goal,
all the other stuff will conflict and it could suck the joy out of the finished product.
Oh, and when you do finish your ride.... Don't be afraid to drag race it. It won't hurt it, or devalue it.
That's my thirty cents worth....
Jeff

[Corvanti]

it's your dream car, go for it. don't wake up one morning 10 years from now and wished you would have done it...

perhaps, with limited funds, you could get a '62 into a "driver" condition sooner, then as conditions permit, collect the parts needed for a "body-off".
just thinking out loud.

[bob40]

Bob,you go to enough car shows and auctions to know that many cars up for sale are being sold for less than the builder has invested.
Fact of life in the street rod/custom/hot rod world.Even pro builders doing their own work often take a loss.I was told long ago never to count personal labor in a build.Common sense on that.
Bottom line is that if your concerned about losing money when you go to sell after the car is done dont build it.
A dream car that has to be built is reserved for a keeper.
My BTDT story.
Few years back I built my dream car.It was to be a keeper and I envisioned driving it everywhere forever.I sold it for the reasons stated in the Nimesh Avanti thread.Afraid to drive it.Even looking at it and thinking about how much was tied up in it was a sense of frustration.It was a gorgeous full size model car. I sold it 3 years after building it and "enjoying" the 600 miles it was driven.While it garnered many trophies and awards finding a buyer to pay what was invested wasnt going to happen and the car went to a new owner for 2/3rds of my investment and that was for a highly collectible mainstream belly button Big 3 car.

[Gunslinger]

It's your car and your dream. If you're building with resale in mind down the road...it's a losing proposition. If you want to build your dream car to drive and enjoy...go for it and don't worry so much about resale value.

I love and have great appreciation for well done stock cars...but they can be the most difficult and expensive (sometimes) ways to rebuild a car. The research and attention to detail is incredible when it comes to a correct rebuild. When you build it your way the options are endless.

When I bought my '70 Avanti I intentionally wanted a car I could do whatever I wanted without regard to originality...my standard was for a car as best as I could reasonably afford to build and not be afraid to drive it. It sounds like you're moving along those lines as well.

[jimmijim8]

Take posession of one of the many fine Studes that come up for sale quite frequently. There's always a great deal out there. Find one that suits you and even if it is not xactly as you would have built yourself You will be happy. Save your spare time for your family. If you are able financially go for a turn-key wash and waxer. You can always personalize it. There are more fine Studes out there than the market can bear. We'll still welcome you at the meets. jimmijim

[gordr]

It's your dream, so go chase it. IMHO, avoid the "body-off". It's not necessarily a guarantee of quality, but it is a guarantee of a whole lot of extra work. Find a nice dry Southwestern car that doesn't need a whole mess of floor repairs. You can still put it on a rotisserie, flip it over, and detail the underside and the chassis to nearly a "body-off" degree of perfection, but you won't be spoiling the body alignment, and you will save a lot of valuable time. And space, too. And the car will always be looking like a car, and less like a heap of parts, so it's less likely you will become discouraged with the project.

[karterfred88]

If you plan on selling it to recoup most of your money, build a Super Lark, even if you don't love the body style. If you build your "dream", remember it's your "dream"--not someone else's. The market value will almost certainly be "what you can get for it" only, as there will be no established market guides for a buyer to look at. The value of your time to find the parts and build your "dream" have no value. Restoring something to it's original glory will have a market value established by the ones sold before. Either way you will lose money when you consider your time as part of a vehicle's value. If you are doing this for the pure joy of doing it, it doesn't matter which you do, only how much you're prepared to lose doing it. The Nimish Avanti is a build of love, unfortunately, the market isn't there for the kind of money it will take to purchase. If the last true R3 that came out of a museum with a few hundred miles on it can't get that kind of money, I doubt there is a buyer out there for it. Time will tell, of course, but I'd never invest that type of energy into something I didn't plan on keeping, and letting my estate worry about what it's worth after I'd enjoyed it as long as I could.

[4961Studebaker]

All good responses, and I couldn't even touch the eloquence of Sir Poet Rice.

But think of it like this, a build and a restoration can not and should not be approached with overall doubt. Once you start obsessing about the "what if's" the car and your dream will ultimately sit behind the shop and rot away.

Fear and trepidation you should not, oh shaper and seller of the metal.

As others have stated, if your worried about resale, then the concept of a "dream car" doesn't fit within websters resale definition. Your building to your specs and ideas. From what I know and recall of your wants within your project, I don't think it's all too drastic.

Your taking Studebaker parts and options from various years within the same "make" family and creating (IMO) the ulitimate options wish list. Those options such as the sky top seem to be widely accepted within Stude circles as "cool", more power is a good thing, most seem to oooh and cooo over the orange whirlly thing. Granted it's not everyone's desire to have 3-400hp, however I don't see that as a deal killer.
Go for it.

Keep the plan, work the plan, hey, I'm in year 5 of my project, do I obsess over certain aspects, you bet, but I do it because I want it perfect for me, and have no desire to sell it to anyone.
Your project seems to me to have cross over appeal. Everything you want, and yet still contains many elements others would desire as well without being completely rejected. No where near being rejected.

Oh.......resale red.......right.

Websters: a Stew containing few ingredients many like, but ALL that fulfill you.

[JDP]

I'm going to ignore the dream car factor for a bit since every time I build a dream car, I get bored with it and move on. I figure your dream car would have a resale value in the 20K range and cost you 2-4 times that to build. If your budget allows you the 20-40K loss on resale, and it's worth that to you, go for it. My friend Skip keeps his dream cars for decades, Dave would lose sleep over selling Sheba, but I'm like the doctor that fixes up the patient and moves on, who are you ?

BTW, I built one dream car without regard to resale, and loved the build, loved the car for a year and never regretted doing it. Here it was:

[drew72mgb]

Bob-

Your "vision" is similar to mine - but I would want to do a 1963 Lark. I have built modle cars since I was 5, now I am 48, with a full-scale model car - a 1972 MGB - I do drive it, but not to the extaent that I dreamt of using it. I have spent 20 years on this car - buying bits as I found and could afford them, and doing the work on my own - first in my front yard (rented duplex), then on the back patio (rented duplex), then a carport, then a garage (all rented), then my own garage. MGB was in pieces for 16 of the 20 years I have owned it.

One of my first car loves was a Model A Ford, then it was a 1963 Studebaker Lark - would need to list the 53 Starliner, too. Too many interests, and not enough time. Do what you want - but, I would refrain from car shows and looking at other cars - during the build. The other mistresses just suck $$$$ and energy away from what you are trying to do. If you quit before getting it done - you will waste ALL Of your $$$, if you get it done - there is the feeling of accomplishment, and the miles that you do drive it are your payment.

I have one done, looking for another project - one I can drive. I do have another non-Stude project, which may be an interim full-scale model car..... I hesitiate in calling it a full-size one - it is a 1940 American Bantam! But, time will tell.

Do what you want - that is what will make you happy.

Drew

[jclary]

Here is my "over the top" Lark build.(Lousy photo re-sized for the forum) Back in the early 1980's, I dug this V8 car out of a pile of oak leaves. The woman I bought it from had offered it to her daughter to drive to high school, but the daughter said she had rather walk.

I took the front clip off, pulled the engine, did a back yard overhaul, bolted it back together, installed an A/C and proceeded to use the car in my sales job until 1988. It has pretty much sat in my man cave(after 40,000 miles) since then.

Now it only needs paint, a headliner, door panels, some floor panel patches, front suspension work, and new tires. Any of this work, would result in "over the top" money in terms of investment. However, for me, it never has been about "investment."

[Chucks Stude]

My two cents, whatever you do, reinforce the frame, and add an air ride suspension system to the car. I love the idea of what you are doing, keeping the car stock looking, and jazzing up the bones.

[PackardV8]

Whatever you decide to do, don't keep track of the expenses. Enjoy the process, enjoy the product, but keeping a ledger on a hobby car build is like keeping track of how much it costs to raise and educate your children or to maintain a spouse - guaranteed to take all the fun out of it.

jack vines

[candbstudebakers]

Bob what more can I say? every one has done a good job on covering the subject, I as you know because you do know me ended up over the years with a lot of different Studebaker that were project cars and as it worked out I became the guy that sold project cars to others to help them with their dream or just to have a project to do. my advice when ever I sold one was your equity in this project better be the enjoyment of driving and owning because you will never get you money and time out of it on a sale very few do make a profit on a sale the money makers start with the first sale of a project and most of it is right there and that's why I sold projects to others, many time after a few years I would get the project back and start over again, also Bob life is short in fact too short for sitting around and pondering on the subject of when to do it. you have put yourself in a possession of not really knowing what you want and asking other to help out with your piece of mind. Bob it is your project and at your age you should start moving ahead if it is what you really want, don't worry about what other think and keep in mind life is too short. the very nice little blue 53 R-3 clone coupe with a 4 speed was a friends of mine that he built to his standards and passed away at the age of 48 way to your for anyone but he did enjoy this car to the fullest, good luck buddy with your decision.