Another engine ID question

[Tom Biegler]

Greetings, my wife and I are first time owners of a new? Studebaker. We purchased a 1963 Lark Daytona convertible through an auction company. It was our first time to buy a car this way and not seeing it in person first was scary. It is a nice little car, has a little rust though. My question is it was auctioned as a 289 v8 and on the side it says Avanti powered but I can't figure the engine numbers.

There is a 63VI708 vin and the numbers V584647 and 1554641 on the engine but this doesn't seem to match up on the chart? Any help is appreciated.

Tom

[Skip Lackie]

The numbers in the V8 engine table are starting engine numbers for each year. Your engine number V584647 checks out as a 1963 259. 1963 Daytonas could have been ordered with 259, 289, and "Avanti-Powered" 289 engines. Your 63V1708 (Stude used the letter I for a 1) just indicates your car was equipped with a V8 and not a 6. A copy of the original production order (available from the Stude National Museum) would tell you how your car was orignally equipped and tell you if that engine is original to the car.

[Tom Biegler]

Sorry I'm still confused. My fender trim says Avanti powered so I can expect a 289. My engine seems to denote a 259. So... it's an Avanti powered 259? Or is the fender tag wrong?

[52-fan]

The fender emblem could have been added later. Back when parts for Studes were cheap some people added bits to their cars. Of course, the engine could have been changed. Only the original production order will tell for sure.

[warrlaw1]

As Skip said, your engine is a 259. If you believe the trim on a 48 year old car.....then you have an Avanti?

[Jim B PEI]

As Skip said, your engine is a 259. If you believe the trim on a 48 year old car.....then you have an Avanti?

What Skip Lackie says..."Your engine number V584647 checks out as a 1963 259" To be precise, it shows that it is a 259 sized V8 that either was original to this car of yours, or was another 1963 259 V8 from another 1963 vehicle that was built in South Bend. Starting 1963 259 V8 number for South Bend is V 566,601. 289 is P 93,601, R1 289 is JT 1,001 and R2 is JTS 1,001

"Avanti Powered" cars have the higher performance 289 V8s, as found in Avantis but available in 'Lark' and 'Hawk' type cars as well. Commonly referred to a R1 for the higher compression higher output non-supercharged 289, and R2 for the supercharged 289. It is quite possible that the original engine was blown up from hard use (or just scavenged by a previous owner) and the common and garden lower output 259 was put in as a replacement. Or it could have come with a factory 259 in the fanciest Daytona trim level, and someone added the 'Avanti Powered' badge at some time. The production order from the Studebaker National Museum will tell you how it was built, how it was optioned, what the colour and engine number was, and other info as well. A very reasonable $33 I think for a 63 model.
for 1963, I think it is
259 V8s
180 hp 2 barrel or
195 hp 4 barrel
289 V8s
200 or 210 hp 2 bbl
225 hp 4 bbl
240 hp R1 4 bbl (think premium/aviation gas nowadays--10.25 compression)
289 hp R2 supercharged 9.0 compression before supercharging
The regular V8s 259/289 were all 8.5:1 compression

If it was auctioned as having a 289 and with an "Avanti Powered" badge on it, when in fact it now has a 259 (or even CAME from the factory as a 259) should perhaps be a matter that you can discuss with the auction company after you get your production order and get your ducks in line. A 259 powered car is simply not as valuable as a 289 in increasing increments of 289 2V, 289 4V, 289 "Avanti Powered" R1 or R2. Some of the 'usual suspects' <GGG> here can give you a better idea of the relative value. Either it was misrepresented to them, or they misrepresented it to you.

[Skip Lackie]

As Jim said, I think you have a legitimate claim against the auction company. If they're in the business, they are supposed to be able to tell the difference between a 259 and an R1 or R2-equipped 289. Whether they are the ones that installed the fender badges or took it on faith that the badges correctly described what was under the hood is irrelevant -- they are responsible for accurately describing to the best of their ability the pedigree of what they're auctioning. Checking engine numbers should be SOP for them.

A 63 Daytona convertible with a 259 is a very nice car -- many of us here would be glad to buy it from you. If you are happy with the car except for the engine size, consider keeping it and negotiating for a partial refund. R1 289s come up for sale periodically -- if you really want to flaunt those badges, maybe a future engine transplant would make you happy. But do spend the bucks to get the original production order so you know how the car came from the factory.

[R2Andrea]

Those fender emblems are incorrect for 2 reasons, the most important being that car was not built with the Jet Thrust R1 engine. The other reason being that the car was built too early to get the emblems. The Avanti Powered and Avanti Supercharged fender emblems weren't available untill later in the production run. But you've gotta love a '63 convertible, no matter what the engine is.

[ddub]

Won't the auction house weasel by saying they were advertising it as the PO described it? Not their fault!

[Jim B PEI]

Of course, it might have come originally with a 289 2 or 4 bbl, if not a R1 or R2 289. That would still be a more desirable convertible than a 259 powered one. Not that there is anything wrong with a 259 in a convertible, of course, except paying over the odds for something you didn't get.

[Tom Biegler]

Thanks for all the great info. Studebaker folks seem to be pretty hospitable. I got this from Auctions America, so it was a big auction house That was one of the big selling features they advertised ' a rare 289' powered.... I just emailed the auction site so we will see. As you guys mentioned a 289 and 259 aren't too different. I have always been fond of the 289 though. Thanks much. I will try to post some pics of the car to get some feedback from you guys and gals. This is my first Studebaker so consider me a newb.