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View Full Version : Open Market, bid snipers, and solutions



63Avanti
06-08-2007, 01:14 PM
This is an interesting topic for many reasons. While I did not snipe the bid under discussion, I feel that setting my max, either in a bid proxy or using one of the "sniper" services is just good practice. That way, I am not tempted to participate in a run-away bidding war.

While e-Bay is resistant to "reforms" in this area, other bid services have protections against the ravages of snipers. When I sold my Savage 99E, the o-so-politically-correct eBay refused to list it. I found a special on-line bid company. They handle 100s of guns a week, with consumer protections stronger than eBay.

What was very interesting to me was the anti-sniper attitude. Apparently the gun crowd as some post-graduate economists. They noted that sniping depresses prices in at least 60% of the cases, up about 10% and the remainder unable to call due to the ambiguity of the statistical evidence. Their reform was if there was activity in the last five minutes, they a) extended bidding 15 minutes, and b) sent out bid notices to all bidders. The net result was a jump in prices.

Thought about it, and it makes sense. Sniping removes "information" from the free market in a time frame that it could be used by the market. A open-market, such as an auction, depends on the maximum number of people knowing the maximum amount of information to fairly set prices.

As for the person who lost to a sniper. Sorry, the most likely reform would only increase the price.


Terry, North Texas
1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065
(in stage 1 resto "Project A")
http://sterkel.org/avanti
1985 Kubota L2202(Diesel)
2000 VW Jetta GLS
1999 Toyota rice burner

Dick Steinkamp
06-08-2007, 02:38 PM
quote:Originally posted by 63Avanti
Their reform was if there was activity in the last five minutes, they a) extended bidding 15 minutes, and b) sent out bid notices to all bidders. The net result was a jump in prices.



As a seller, I love it...as a buyer, it sucks.

My guess is that it was implemented for the benefit of the auction provider. They get paid based on the selling price...higher selling price = bigger pay day.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

64V-K7
06-10-2007, 09:59 AM
If Ebay were a true auction, then the item wouldn't close until all bidding was stopped for, say, 10 minutes.

If there's someone who really wants the item, they can just enter a proxy bid of some rediculous dollar amount and drive the "de facto' value of the item sky high... This is the normal Ebay procedure and the reason some things have reached a very artificial value

If no one bid on anything until the closing minutes of the item, then it would be a true auction and final prices would be much more sane. I've seen this happening more and more now, as people realize the twist, that the Ebay process has applied to human nature..

Bob Johnstone
http://www.studebaker-info.org/7168422/sig2.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
06-10-2007, 10:39 AM
quote:Originally posted by 55Prez
If there's someone who really wants the item, they can just enter a proxy bid of some rediculous dollar amount and drive the "de facto' value of the item sky high... This is the normal Ebay procedure and the reason some things have reached a very artificial value

Actually, I don't think a high proxy bid would do that. The proxy bid amount is known only to the bidder. I wouldn't impact the item's value. If you want a set a wheel covers and enter a $1,000 proxy bid when they are bid to $100, your $1000 proxy bid will then make the bid $101. If there are no other bids, you win at $101. If someone bids $105, your $1000 proxy bid will then bid $106 automatically for you. Your $1000 proxy bid is invisible to everyone else.

quote:
If Ebay were a true auction, then the item wouldn't close until all bidding was stopped for, say, 10 minutes.

If no one bid on anything until the closing minutes of the item, then it would be a true auction and final prices would be much more sane.

I think the opposite would happen (see 63Avanti's post above that documents this). Extending the bidding indefinitely would tend to increase prices. "Auction fever" would be a bigger influence than it already is. Also, all bidders would have to be at their computer at the auction close. This wouldn't work for me in most cases and probably not for others. Just the fact that it is a world wide web means you're in the wrong time zone for a lot of items to close during normal non sleep hours.

IMHO, eBay prices are high for 3 reasons.

1. It's often the only place you can find the rare item you need (or want [:o)]). There are probably others in the same situation. The supply and demand thing will always drive up prices.

2. "Auction Fever". The (usually short term ) "lusting" after an item and the NEED to beat the other guy bidding on it.

3. The audience is HUGE. This might be the most important reason. There is no other place that I know of where you have the potential of literally millions of people viewing your item for sale (or competing with millions of other people to own it).

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Chucks Stude
06-10-2007, 02:23 PM
There was a grill shell for a 62 GT on Ebay for 10 days. It ended yesterday. I figured out what it was going to cost to rechrome my grill shell (500.00), added in a factor for it being new (100.00), less the freight(39.95)and put in a bid of 559.95. There had not been a bid on this thing for 3 or 4 days. The bid stood at 510.00 and had for some time. I put my bid in with 35 minutes left to go.
This was the second time this thing had come up for bid. It topped out at 485.00 the last time, not meeting reserve. I was the high bidder. I emailed the seller to see if he would just sell it to me outright for the reserve...he said no, that he would relist it and good luck.
Well, there are 13 seconds left in the auction, the bid is 511.00, but I have a max of 559.95.... at 11 seconds, I am still high bid, the bid is still 511.00. At 9 seconds, I am still the high bid, at 511.00. In the next 8 seconds, I lost it at 569.00. Sometimes the whole process does not make any sense. I am not griping, just wondering at what point it all becomes a little irrational.
The fact that obviously someone had a program that is designed to take something at all costs, seems to make this seem less of a hobby, and more of a contest. IMMostHO

Dick Steinkamp
06-10-2007, 02:54 PM
quote:Originally posted by Chucks Stude
The fact that obviously someone had a program that is designed to take something at all costs,


I wouldn't say "at all costs". For all we know, his snipe bid was $570. Certainly not unreasonable for a NOS Hawk grill shell. A replated one is generally not as nice as a good NOS one...especially around the emblem at the top.

I guess I don't see it as irrational that the highest bidder gets the item. What would you change? The second highest bidder gets the item?

Even if you had used the same snipe program that the buyer used, you would have lost the item. You set the max amount you would pay for the item. You can't do much more than that. Unfortunately somebody wanted it more than you. If you have actually purchased items on eBay, the same thing has happened to the #2 bidder on the items you bought. It's called a "market economy". Works pretty good generally.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Chucks Stude
06-10-2007, 03:08 PM
Right.

It is a technological age, I should spend the money on a snipe program and get over it, or not. It is the free market afterall, and the last thing that anyone would, or should want is to regulate it.
By the way how is the weather Bellingham? In Houston it is 90+ and the humidity is 120%. Ah, the joys of global warming. Actually, it has always been hot here, that is why they call it summer. I think I will go for a drive, and let everyone stare a great looking car.

Dick Steinkamp
06-10-2007, 03:48 PM
quote:Originally posted by Chucks Stude
I think I will go for a drive, and let everyone stare a great looking car.


Sounds like a good plan to me! [8D]

65 and no humidity here. I've found that since I moved to Washington from California that anything over 75 is uncomfortable. I've turned into a real weather whimp ;).



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

JDP
06-10-2007, 04:28 PM
It only cost you from a few pennies to maybe a few bucks to snipe bid most items and you only pay if you win.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

Dick Steinkamp
06-10-2007, 04:39 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

It only cost you from a few pennies to maybe a few bucks to snipe bid most items and you only pay if you win.


That's right. It's not a program you buy and install on your computer..here's the one I use...

https://esnipe10.esnipe.com/

You can try it free for 14 days.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Chucks Stude
06-10-2007, 04:58 PM
Ok. Sounds like a plan. I have just replaced two gauges, that I bought from a gentleman in Canada, and they both worked perfectly. We have really great people on this Forum. I have just disassembled my clock. According to everything that I have read, they are easy to work on. However, this one is all ground up. So, I will be contacting another member of the Forum to have digital guts put in my clock.

Kdancy
06-10-2007, 10:26 PM
Bidding before the last hour or two just drives the prices up. I never bid early on anything I am serious about getting.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
61 Cursed Purple Hawk
64 Champ long bed V8