PDA

View Full Version : Engine: Oil Pan Gaskets



Stude Rookie
09-26-2011, 01:51 PM
I am just finishing assembly of my R1 and have run into a small problem installing the oil pan.
I purchased the pan gasket set from SI so I am pretty sure it is the correct one. It is a 4 piece set with the side gasket cut with holes that match the oil pan and two cork gaskets that are used on the ends. My problem is twofold. The front gasket seems too long when wrapped in place, (do you carefully cut it off? ) and the rear does not seem to want to fit into the gasket channel ( whine about it or force it on in with a big hammer?) I know my small block Chevys but am new to the Stude V8. Please enlighten me or make fun of me for being a pansy.
Stude Rookie

41 Frank
09-26-2011, 02:13 PM
It is a little tricky installing the pan gasket end pieces but DO NOT cut them shorter, they are intended to be compressed as you tighten the pan screws down. Getting that rear one in the channel is tough but not impossible. Sometimes it helps to cut some longer bolts down and use them as studs temporarily to get the pan in place.

Stude Rookie
09-26-2011, 02:27 PM
Thank you 41 Frank. I am still a little confused about how to install the gaskets. The engine is upside down (no problem installing the pan) but how do you center and cement the too long gaskets in place so you can drop the pan? Should they not be secured to the block?
Stude Rookie

64V-K7
09-26-2011, 02:54 PM
Clean everything really well with alcohol and get the oil and grease cleaned up. You can install a few studs around the perimeter of the flange to locate the gasket and hold it in place. I've used 3M #90 contact cement as a sealer and it works fine. For the square cork pieces, carefully spray some contact cement in the groove and use a pencil (eraser end) to work the piece into the groove. The contact cement acts as a lubricant, then dries and holds the stuff in place.

starliner62
09-26-2011, 05:02 PM
I totally screwed up the first oil pan gasket I put on. I trimmed it up like I thought it should be. It leaked worse that the original one.
The too long gaskets look wrong but work well when installed correctly. The rear square gasket is the hardest to get in place. I use ultra silicone on all of the corners and the little rear main cap gaskets. I also use threaded rod on the corner bolts to help pull the pan in place.

StudeRich
09-26-2011, 05:19 PM
Another "trick" for installing that difficult rear arch gasket:
I take my putty knife and ease the front and rear edges into the Main Bearing cap while pushing down hard on the surface, BEFORE putting any Permatex #2 on the pan surface, only on the Main Cap surface.

Remember to insert the very small side gaskets (filler blocks) into the Main Cap & block FIRST, before the little tabs on the rear ends of the pan side gaskets, all coated with Permatex #2 or Permatex RTV High Temp Black Silicone Gasket maker.
The very tiny side gaskets come with the Rear Main Seal Kit, which you should be replacing at the same time.

If that is not possible, just make them from a piece of cork the thickness of the Pan Side Gaskets.

The long side gaskets get glued down with Gasket Sealer first, before the Arch Gaskets, locating them as mentioned here with some all-thread 1 inch Studs.

When all is complete, Pan on etc. DO NOT FULLY TIGHTEN THE PAN BOLTS, snug them up and wait 24 hrs. for curing, especially if using Silicone. Then tighten a bit more, but they do not need to be overtightened.

whacker
09-26-2011, 05:40 PM
Before you try to install the pan, put it upside down on a flat surface and use a hammer and a thin piece of wood to pound the mounting flanges flat. Take the front pan seal, the long square cross section piece of cork, and use a long rubber band to form it into a "U" shape. Let it soak overnight in warm water, then be sure it is dried before you try to put it in. Start in the middle, and make sure it is bottomed in the groove all the way around before you try to put the pan on the block. When tightening the pan against the aluminum filler block, be careful of the filler block. Do not over tighten the timing cover to the filler block! The aluminum threads are easy to strip, then you have to start all over! I always put some permatex #2 on the screws going into the filler block from the timing cover, as these holes are drilled through and oil can seep around the threads.

Studebakercenteroforegon
09-26-2011, 06:29 PM
The front filler block is die-cast zinc, not aluminum. Unfortunately, that makes the threads even easier to strip.

Stude Rookie
09-26-2011, 06:54 PM
I want to thank each and every one of you for your input. I would have most certainly botched this job completely (and may still do so) if I had proceeded without seeking help from this considerable knowledge base. This is one hell of a forum and I cannot imagine trying to build my Studebaker without you. By the way I enjoyed putting faces to the ones of you that I had the pleasure of mingling with in Springfield. I did not see, or lost, the tiny gaskets that were mentioned by a couple of members. Any pics or info on what I am looking for and where they are to be inserted.
Stude Rookie

StudeRich
09-26-2011, 07:12 PM
/Cut/I did not see, or lost, the tiny gaskets that were mentioned by a couple of members. Any pics or info on what I am looking for and where they are to be inserted.
Stude Rookie

You need to re-read this:

Remember to insert the very small side gaskets (filler blocks) into the (ends of the) Main Cap & block FIRST, before the little tabs on the rear ends of the pan side gaskets, all coated with Permatex #2 or Permatex RTV High Temp Black Silicone Gasket maker.
The very tiny side gaskets come with the Rear Main Seal Kit, which you should be replacing at the same time.

r1lark
09-27-2011, 06:37 AM
The front filler block is die-cast zinc, not aluminum. Unfortunately, that makes the threads even easier to strip.
I've got to the point where I just bite the bullet and Helicoil the filler block. Except for NOS ones, none of the blocks that I have used have had perfect threads, some are always buggered up. Once the filler block is set up on the drill press to drill out one hole, it's not much more to do the others.

Stude Rookie
09-27-2011, 05:32 PM
You need to re-read this:

Remember to insert the very small side gaskets (filler blocks) into the (ends of the) Main Cap & block FIRST, before the little tabs on the rear ends of the pan side gaskets, all coated with Permatex #2 or Permatex RTV High Temp Black Silicone Gasket maker.
The very tiny side gaskets come with the Rear Main Seal Kit, which you should be replacing at the same time.


Thank you StudeRich, I see what you mean. Already done. I've had the rear main seal in for a while now and did not put two and two together until you prompted me. Got away from the engine for a while and did the "CRS" thing. I will use as many of the pro-offered tips as I can and should finish things up this week end.
Stude Rookie

Gregor
03-12-2012, 03:36 PM
StudeRich,
I am blown away. I have a Pan Gasket Set. 4 pieces, thats it. Two long side pieces and two shorter cork pieces for the ends of the engine. Now I hear "small side gaskets", can you tell me what the heck they are, where they go, and what they look like? My manual doesnt even mention them in this process. I have the engine in the car, everything is cleaned ready to install but this forum just brought me to a halt. The only gaskets I removed or scraped off are the four I mentioned and the front filler gasket which I was hoping to replace with Permatex silicone. Am I off in left field? Please help. (6 cyl)
Thanks,
Gregor

StudeRich
03-12-2012, 08:58 PM
My Post #6 and # 10 here explain it, but if that does not do it, read this other post you are also on:

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?59513-Cork-pan-gasket (http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?59513-Cork-pan-gasket)

I believe it is explained under "Rear Main Seal install" in the Shop Manual.

Update: OPPS! Well THAT explains it: "6 Cyl." most of us like myself rarely or never fool with 6's, I do not think they have any gaps under the rear arch gasket ends that need filling.

I am sorry I mislead you, this post was about an R1 V-8, next time create a new post if your model or engine is way different.

nvonada
03-13-2012, 06:30 AM
Gregor,
About halfway down this page are pictures of my Champion 6 gasket install. Maybe that will help. I did not know the tricks about soaking and pre-shaping the thick end piece. But it is not leaking yet. Silicone is wonderful stuff.
http://stude.vonadatech.com/EngineAssembly.htm
Nathan

Gregor
03-13-2012, 09:06 AM
Nvonda, Terrific website, thanks I really liked it. I think I am as close to understanding this now as I can get. Just to review: Keep in mind, engine is in car. I plan on a dry run of putting up the clean filler block, dry gaskets, and pan. That way I will see what I think is correct.
You said a great idea, put the side pan gaskets in place with my silicone and hold them in place with the pan. Once dried, remove the pan, then attach the new front cork gasket to the filler block. When dried, install the filler block with gasket and compress that in place, it takes compression because the newly installed side gaskets go UNDER it?? If I have that all correct, put silicone on the rear cork gasket, press it into place, put silicone on the surfaces of the side gaskets, the front filler gasket and the rear cork gasket and put up that oil pan..................thank God! I know this is anal but I have read many different versions and inputs and hope one of you can tell me this IS a good enough approach. Thanks in advance.
Gregor

nvonada
03-14-2012, 07:03 AM
Gregor,
Thanks! I think you have it right. The little tabs on the side gaskets go into the filler block slot (Or should. Mine were way too wide so I had to trim them). The cork on the end gets squeezed on top of it. The rest of your plan seems good to me. Of course I only ever did the one so I am hardly an expert. Keep in mind these used to be put together with nothing better than Permatex as a sealer. If you use good silicone on all places where parts meet it will probably work just fine. Doing it in the car will be not fun but at least you can. In my car the planar suspension makes that impossible.
Nathan

Gregor
03-17-2012, 12:51 PM
My Saturday has been shot! HELP!!! AND I MEAN HELP!!! You guys have a ton of knowledge on Stude's and I have none but I NEVER thought this REAR CORK PAN Gasket could cause as much of a problem as it has. It has brought me to my knees. Please keep in mind I am working under the engine (still in car) and it is a 6 cylinder. I cannot in any way shape or form, get this cork to fit. I dont know how much to sand off the edges or at all, I have been under that car for two hours on my back just trying a dry run without sililcone and cannot make any progress. I have tried the "thin Spatula" that some here has used but to no avail. I know there's got to be a secret! Is there anyone out there that can share that secret:) ? I am literally stopped on this and really frustrated.
CAn I sand down or trim the inside two edges of the cork? If so, by how much?
ANY and I mean ANY advice will be appreicated.
Thanks,
Gregor

nvonada
03-19-2012, 07:07 AM
If all else fails try preforming the gasket a bit. I would try two steps. Soak the gasket in water for a while then wrap it around a soup can or something to get a curve to it. When that dries soak it again then flatten the gasket by putting a heavy weight on it or maybe gently squeezing in a vice. Don't crush or break it though.

If you are really, really desparate you probably could bevel the side of the gasket a little. A sharp knife would work or maybe sandpaper. You will be filling in with silicone anyway. Good luck!

Gregor
03-20-2012, 02:51 PM
Thanks NVONADA, I appreciate all your help. I ended up pushing the filler piece with the cork on it, like your photo, into place, then marked on the side pan gaskets that were already in place with a pen. Then cut that extra piece out on both sides of the filler. I used Ultra Black to form the replacement gasket on the filler, both surface and tops that now sit against the block with no gasket between them. On the rear 7/16 by 7/16 cork gasket, I built a jig that would allow me to sand off a bit of the side(thickness) of the gasket evenly and put it in with Ultra Black, and bingo! PERFECT!.
Thanks for putting up with my rambling!
Gregor

nvonada
03-20-2012, 03:17 PM
Sounds good! I am glad you got it in.