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View Full Version : Engine: SBC Swap Problems In A Hawk



JoeHall
09-24-2011, 07:36 AM
I have read all I could find here on swapping brand X engines into Studes, but still have a few questions: I am considering buying a Hawk that someone swapped a GM engine and tranny into. Looking closely at pix I received, it appears the installer mounted the engine about 4-6 inches forward, in attept to avoid clearance issues with the steering gearbox and left exhaust manifold. It i sso far forward the fan (long waterpump manifold) sits about an inch from the (2-core) radiator. I am unsure which route I'd take if purchased, either swap a Stude V8 back in, or figure out some way to move the SBC rearward. Looks like (and sounds like from other threads here) I'd then run into clearance issues again with the exhaust manifold & steering gearbox. Can anyone comment as to was to deal with this clearance issue with a Hwak?
Thanks,
Joe H

P.S. I am aware the general consensus of the NG will be to replace the SBC with a Stude V8, but just trying to think y thru what's already in place.

jimmijim8
09-24-2011, 07:52 AM
I've got a 55 coupe that someone put a 77 olds 350 drive train. They made the drivers side xhaust manifold. Going to find a parts car and re studebaker it. jimmijim

irish
09-24-2011, 07:52 AM
What year and type (Silver, Golden, GT) Hawk is it?

Joe

JoeHall
09-24-2011, 08:05 AM
Its a 62 GT. The job appears to have been done by someone familiar with GM and mechanicals in general, since hook up of all the misc accessories seem well thought out, i.e. vacuum lines, wiring, linkages, etc. However, with that much engine forward of the front spindles, I am wondering about handling at road speeds, i.e. agressive driving in the "twisties".

junior
09-24-2011, 08:55 AM
I would consider moving that engine back to approx. where the factory installed the original v-8. That means of course, new mounts for both the engine and trans, rad hoses, throttle linkage, driveshaft etc, etc., but it's for the best IMO considering the balance of handling/braking issues. Why mess with what the engineers designed in the first place. Once all of this is done, then you're still faced with the issue of if it's worth it to make all the mods required, or simply stuff a Stude v-8 back in with all factory designed parts that you know what will work...guess it all depends on how healthy or powerful the sbc is, how many $ you want to spend, and what purpose you're going to use the car for. With that being decided, if you do stick with the chevy, you have a lot of options. My car, a 54 coupe uses standard 'rams horn' manifolds on both sides of the engine, and the fit around the standard Saginaw manual box is close, but no real issue. I have seen later Malibu 'log' style manifolds used both in the standard and reversed formats meaning the passenger side on was put on the driver's side so the outlet was towards the front of the engine. The only issue with either of these methods is having to make the exhaust pipe make a rather tight exit to hug the block to give reach rod clearance. I don't know how big the GT steering box is, or what issues power steering presents. Many others have also used street rod style block hugger headers, and Sanderson headers website also offers lots of interesting alternatives. I'm sure many GT owners are satisfied with sbc engines in their cars mounted in the conventional location. Regards, Junior http://www.sandersonheaders.com/Chevrolet-Small-Block-V8-Headers/

Alan
09-24-2011, 11:46 AM
There are a number of different SBC's. Let's have some pics. It is easier to figure out from where you are than guess at it.

oldguy
09-24-2011, 12:11 PM
I'm not an expert, but I have some musings.....If the engine has the long water pump and an engine mounted fan that is 1 inch behind the radiator, I'm not sure the engine is "too far forward" Typically the sbc setup is lighter than the Stude, and I believe the location of the mass is different. Doesn't the stude have front and rear engine mounts, centering the mass there? While the sbc has engine mounts further back on the block, and the 3rd support at the tail of the trans, which centes that whole mass further back in the car.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Still learning about Stude specifics.

showbizkid
09-24-2011, 12:25 PM
I had the opportunity to see this car and get some photos. Here are the engine shots:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q26/clarknovak/62%20Hawk/DSCN2533.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q26/clarknovak/62%20Hawk/DSCN2534.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q26/clarknovak/62%20Hawk/DSCN2535.jpg

Rest of the shots are posted here (http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q26/clarknovak/62%20Hawk/).

JoeHall
09-24-2011, 12:32 PM
Thanks once again Clark,
A picture is worth 1000 words, and I still have not figured out how to post pix here.
Joe

junior
09-24-2011, 12:56 PM
Thanks once again Clark,
A picture is worth 1000 words, and I still have not figured out how to post pix here.
Joe

No sweat, here is a sbc in a 54 coupe, note how close the ex. manifold is to the pitman arm, yet there is still clearance for the reach rod. Hope this helps. Junior.

Pat Dilling
09-24-2011, 01:08 PM
I tend to agree with oldguy, given the SBC is as much as 200 pounds lighter than a Stude V8 I suggest driving it first to see how it handles before moving the motor. One thing I would change immediately is the fan in front of the radiator. It is mounted in a shroud designed to pull air. As it is mounted now, it will block air flow coming through the radiator. Having it set up that way it suggests the present owner may be experiencing cooling problem. I can't see the back of the radiator, but possibly a shroud could be placed around the existing fan, or remove that fan completely and install an electric fan and shroud to pull air through. Whatever you do, you do not want to block air flow when you are going at highway speeds the way the existing set up would do.

Pat

PackardV8
09-24-2011, 01:23 PM
Yes, agree with Pat, the way the existing electric fan is set up is bad, bad science. Change that.

No, as far as the rest of it, drive it a while first. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


with that much engine forward of the front spindles, I am wondering about handling at road speeds, i.e. agressive driving in the "twisties". Maybe, since the SBC is 150# lighter than the Studebaker V8, a couple of inches of location is relatively unimportant. Get used to the idea that C/K Studes will never be road course racers. With sufficient work and money for wheels, tires, shocks, sway bars, brakes, they'll be fun on the highway. Just don't choose off with anything built recently. Any kid with a Subaru or Mitsu will suck the doors off a 120" WB Stude anytime the corners come.

jack vines

bob1940cab
09-24-2011, 01:42 PM
No sweat, here is a sbc in a 54 coupe, note how close the ex. manifold is to the pitman arm, yet there is still clearance for the reach rod. Hope this helps. Junior.

Junior,
In this pic is the chev v8 & trans centered to the frame or offset over to pass side for additional clearance?.
I have similar issues with my 53 ht.
Thanks, Bob S.

Alan
09-24-2011, 02:36 PM
It can't be centered, to the right or the left but not centered. Just get rid of that center dump exhaust manifold and get one that dumps at the rear. Then you will be able to move it back a few inches if you want but by the pics. it doesn't look like it is too far off. A long pump is good on a C-K to get the fan in the shroud. I would play with it first and get rid of that pusher fan.

Jerry Forrester
09-24-2011, 06:39 PM
It can't be centered, to the right or the left but not centered.

Why?
...............

junior
09-24-2011, 08:17 PM
Junior,
In this pic is the chev v8 & trans centered to the frame or offset over to pass side for additional clearance?.
I have similar issues with my 53 ht.
Thanks, Bob S.

It's within 3mm (1/8") of being centered side to side, the back of the HEI dist. cap is about 2" away from the firewall IIRC. Junior.

Alan
09-24-2011, 10:03 PM
Jer, You have seen enough Stude motor mounts to see where the slots are. Most commercial Chevy. mounts are made to put the engine in the center. The only way I can see to get the engine centered is to weld fill the mount holes and mill slot new holes.

Jerry Forrester
09-25-2011, 08:44 AM
The only way I can see to get the engine centered is to weld fill the mount holes and mill slot new holes.
If I had a mind to, I could install a Stude engine centered. I have a torch, welder, grinder and drill.
I have installed engines as far as one inch offset to the right, two inches to the left (dirt track car), centered and ten inches back from the factory installation.
Since this thread is about a modified car (a Chevy into a Hawk) I was just wondering why you said it couldn't be centered.
As Don Wallace (Oldguy) would say, "Of course it'll fit, I have a torch".