Fuel System: Combatting Ethanol

[showbizkid]

I got my monthly eNewsletter from Hagerty today, and it contained an article about a fello in Michigan named Ed Syrocki who's begun lecturing regarding the damage to fuel systems that ethanol causes to collector vehicles. It's a good article, and you can read it here.

Along with Ed's warning and suggestions of how to combat the problem, there are a couple of specific recommendations found in the comments that are fantastic and I thought they bore repeating. I'm not recommending any of these methods myself, just passing them along:

• Use only pure gasoline. Hard to find, but there's an online listing of stations around the US that still pump pure, uncut gas. It's at http://www.pure-gas.org/ . Best of all, you can add to the database, so if you find a station near you that pumps pure gas, you can let others know.
• A poster mentions that this has been an area of concern in boating as well, and mentions that real gasoline is available from many fuel dispensers in marinas or other boating service areas.
• Another poster recommends a ratio of Marvel Mystery Oil in your fuel tank to offset the alcohol, 1 oz. per 5 gallons in collector vehicles and 1 oz per 7-8 gallons in later models.
• Finally, Ed (the subject of the article) is quoted as recommending a product from Schaeffer Oil called Soy Ultra, a distillation of soybean oils that is said to encapsulate separated water when added to the gas tank. The manufacturer's link is http://www.schaefferoil.com/soy-gasoline-additive.html .

There are also some horror stories in the comments - very worth reading. Again, I'm not recommending any of these methods; just wanted to share the information and start the discussion.

[Bob Andrews]

Clark, remember from a couple weeks back?

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?54119-Excellent-Info-RE-E-10-fuel-amp-additive&highlight=syrocki

[Warren Webb]

Good luck finding a pure gas in California! Now the lawmakers are on the warpath to get ethanol in aviation fuel but they'll have a hard time fighting the FAA on that!

[David56j]

I have been using pure-gas.org for a while to find non ethanol gas. Most states have plenty of stations that sell it. Warren is right about California tho, only a few in the north. May cost a bit more but you get better fuel milage. It is also available in Canada.
David

[showbizkid]

Ha! I thought that sounded familiar, but I skim so many threads these days I must've forgot. Sorry for the duplicate topic!

[Skip Lackie]

I have been using pure-gas.org for a while to find non ethanol gas. Most states have plenty of stations that sell it. Warren is right about California tho, only a few in the north. May cost a bit more but you get better fuel milage. It is also available in Canada.
David

I guess I would re-phrase that to say "The rural parts of most states have plenty of stations that sell it." There are only a few counties in the entire 700-mile coastal strip from Portland, Maine to Richmond Virginia where non-ethanol gas is available.

[Bob Bryant]

Can't say I'm doing it right, but after reading various articles and postings I have been adding 4oz. of Marvel Mystery Oil and 4 oz. Of Sta-Bil to every ten gal. of Mobil high octane fuel. The Mobil brand was not something recommended...it is just something my R-1 likes. I read somewhere that the marine version of Sta-Bil is even better, but it is more costly per ounce. These threads are always interesting and there are many ideas as to what is the best strategy. My car travels about 750 miles per year.

[WCP]

Being a bit of a skeptic, I suspect all "road" gasoline contains ethanol. I doubt that the refineries would inventory different formulas for different stations. Up here, the belief was that Canadian Tire Corp. high test did not contain ethanol, due to the placement of the ethanol sticker on the pumps being located between the low and mid-grade. But recently that sticker has "disappeared". The only definitive answer to this question should come from the refineries, but since they frequently transfer gasoline between themselves, I doubt that there is any difference. Perhaps "Consumers Union" should do some independent analysis of fuel at stations claiming to offer ethanol-free fuel.

[Lenny R2]

I have been using Marvel Mystery oil for many years i also recently add stabil ethanol treatment.
Hope they are not going to 15%ethanol.

[STEWDI]

At the begining of our July/11 trip to the Keystone Chapter's Atlantic Zone Meet, I filled our '07 Monte Carlo (3.5 engine) with Shell 91 in our home town of Kitchener, Ontario, and added a dose of Lucas Fuel Injector Cleaner. We went south of Buffalo on #219, and then in PA, we made our way to #99 and south to the Pennsylvania Turnpike and the # 70 to Hagerstown, Maryland, our objective. We arrived with just under a 1/4 tank left. The next morning I filled again with Shell in Hagerstown at a cost of $53US and change.

At the beginning of the return trip I filled up again at a Shell yards off of #70 at the south end of town and proceeded up #81, then #15 north to Danville N.Y., then Batavia and Buffalo, etc to go home. The return trip was easier and much less "mountainous" - not as much strain on the car. BUT I became very concerned with the fast-dwindling gas as we neared home - so much so that I filled up with gas again even though I was only about 10 miles from home!

It's good that I did because I pumped 61 litres into a tank list as having a 64 litre capacity! Good Grief was that close!!(And it cost me $78CDN)

Our Ontario-dispenced Shell 91 Premium is said to have no ethanol in it and I'm assuming the Maryland equivalent has 10%. There is one heck of a difference in gas mileage between the two products!

For those of you in Buffalo - come on over to Fort Erie to fill up!

[Jim B PEI]

I have been watching this closely down here in the East. I started measuring the mileage of one of the daily drivers, the 04 Subaru Forester (the dog transport unit). Its new enough that ethanol 'should' be okay, but it definitely isn't. When 10% ethanol was slipped in unannounced on 'some' brands, the mileage and driveability and power went all to hell. Switching from regular 10% to midgrade 5% at a cost of 3.5% more ended up achieving a 9%+ increase in mileage. Using premium 0% for another 3.5% only netted 10.5% better overall mileage, so midgrade it is. This old car is suddenly getting 37 mpg Imperial, up from about 33 on real regular and as low as 28 on 10% (US 30, 26 and 22) Tracked carefully over 5,000 km. Noticed the same effects in the Studebakers and the Jeep

Then I discovered that PetroCanada and Shell were definitely ethanol-free at least on PEI, on all grades, and midgrade ethanol-free gave it another mpg at the same price as 5% adulterated. Oddly, their fuel comes from the Esso refinery in Dartmouth NS. Esso themselves sometimes swap gas with the ethanol-added refinery Irving in New Brunswick, so they are not necessarily ethanol free. Shell recently decided to allow itself to run out of regular and midgrade and sold only premium in Nova Scotia and PEI when the Esso refinery was offline rather than to allow any ethanol into their pumps. They have my business for all my Studebakers now.

Odd thing is...PEI always has the least expensive fuel east of Ontario in Canada.

[Greenstude]

Combatting Ethanol

In New Brunswick since March 2011, regular gasoline contains 10% ethanol, and premium gasoline contains none. Mid-grade is blended at the pump from the other two, so contains 5% ethanol. Service stations are not required to post a notice that fuel contains ethanol, although most do so.

After considerable research, I believe the following is a partial list of where ethanol should NOT EVER be used:
1. Any vehicle built before 2001
2. Any vehicle which uses less than a full tank of fuel per month.
3. Any vehicle with a relined fuel tank.
4. Any vehicle in storage.
5. Any small engine -- lawnmower, snowblower, ATV, snowmobile, boat, chain saw, etc. etc.
6. Any light aircraft

Given the poor fuel mileage reported for ethanol fuels, using premium fuel without ethanol probabaly is no more expensive. (Our '47 Champion is averaging 10.9 litres/100 km = 26 m.p.g. Imperial = 22 m.p.g. U.S. on premium.)

In the past, we have driven the '47 to antique auto events in the New England states, including the 1990 SDC International. Now I am wondering if it is safe to do so again.

Fortunately, most of my daily driving is done with a Volkswagen Jetta TDI Diesel --- and that fuel has not been messed with --- yet.

Bill Jarvis

[Chucks Stude]

Depending on what year you are talking about, they have messed with diesel, a lot. Low sulfur, low particulate, etc. It is very dry compared to the diesel of old, and I understand it is hard on pumps. Low lubricity.

[maxpower1954]

Being a bit of a skeptic, I suspect all "road" gasoline contains ethanol. I doubt that the refineries would inventory different formulas for different stations. Up here, the belief was that Canadian Tire Corp. high test did not contain ethanol, due to the placement of the ethanol sticker on the pumps being located between the low and mid-grade. But recently that sticker has "disappeared". The only definitive answer to this question should come from the refineries, but since they frequently transfer gasoline between themselves, I doubt that there is any difference. Perhaps "Consumers Union" should do some independent analysis of fuel at stations claiming to offer ethanol-free fuel.

I have a 1957 Cessna 172, which is approved by the FAA to use auto gas - with NO ethanol. Here in my hometown I use a station that has non-ethanol fuel.

I don't take their word for it, there's an easy test. Take a water bottle, mark it clearly about 1/3 way up and fill to that line with water. Add gasoline and shake. If ethanol is present there will be a increase in the previous level of water, because the water absorbs the alcohol in the fuel if present. No increase, no ethanol. I haven't found any yet!

Ironically, I use 100 octane aviation gas in the R-2 GT Hawk during the summer because it has a much higher Reid vapor pressure (boiling point) avoiding vapor lock issues I've had since the ethanol came in a few years ago (only regular non-ethanol is available here.) The airplane is fine on regular because it only has a 7.0 to 1.0 compression ratio...I've had lawn mowers higher than that! What a weird world we're in...car gas in airplanes and avgas in cars.

Russ Farris

[WCP]

Thanks. I'll try that test on fuel here.