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MagikDraggin
06-04-2007, 04:56 PM
I've been fiddling with the valve adjustment for some time now trying to get that clattering noise down to acceptable levels.

The thing is, I seem to never quite be able to get rid of ALL the noise. One in particular always seems to keep on clattering. That being the number one cylinder.

I KNOW it's right, 'cause I went through six complete revolutions adjusting all the valves.....3 times hot and 3 times cold (with the proper tolerances for each).

Fired it up this morning and sure as you know what, there's that damned noise again coming from the number one cylinder, clack, clack, clack, with every revolution.

It was then I had an epiphany....just maybe it's NOT the valve adjustment at all, since it does seem to be a tad bit louder than the usual click, click, click, I was getting from the rocker arms/push rods.

So, I broke out the old "stethoscope" and lo and behold, it's the frigging FUEL PUMP that's been making that racket.

So now, what's the fuel pump trying to tell me?.....that it wants out and is just waiting for me to get out on the highway far enough away from home to be a real PITA if it were to fail?

Or is this one of those kinds of sounds that simply considered "normal" for this sort of car? It seems to certainly be pumping alright, and is not leaking fuel anywhere.

What's the recommendations here? Change it out, or leave it alone and don't worry about it?

Karl

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/MagikDraggin/Other%20Stuff/IM000986-reduced.jpg?
1962 GT Hawk 4sp

studegary
06-04-2007, 05:23 PM
At least carry a spare and the few tools needed to change it. Better would be to change it and keep this one for a spare. Of course, I can't tell the amount of noise that you have. Some make noise forever, others don't.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

41 Frank
06-04-2007, 05:29 PM
Change it Karl,especially if you plan to drive to South Bend. Of course we will be coming down I-80 that week with a load of fuel pumps on board in case we see you by the side of the road.:D Just kidding Karl Call the NAPA store and ask for a 4227 fuelpump.

JDP
06-04-2007, 06:26 PM
Ask N8, he's tried two or three different new fuel pumps and I can still hear it from outside the car.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

MagikDraggin
06-04-2007, 06:49 PM
Thanks Frank, like you I think it probably prudent to replace it now instead of risking getting rear-ended on the interstate by some dimwit rubbernecker. And while I'm thinking of it...are you pretty sure that feller is bringing those door panel pieces with him to South Bend, or do you think I should give him a call, just to be sure?

Also one of the little SS clips that goes over the joint between the front driprail and the side driprail, disappeared over the past few days. Where do you suppose I'd find one of them?

And JDP, that's not very encouraging to hear that after 3 tries the thing still makes noise. One thing, it is barely audible inside the car, but outside, it is L-O-U-D....almost embarrasing.

N8N
06-04-2007, 07:10 PM
It's not my fuel pump, as one of the ones I tried was the one from my old engine. I guess the only thing it could be would be something with the cam lobe or timing cover, but what? And how to fix?

When I say it's not the fuel pump, I don't mean that the noise is not related to the fuel pump - it most definitely is. Engine purrs like a kitten with the fuel pump dismounted, but it won't run for long like that.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

41 Frank
06-04-2007, 07:11 PM
The man that said he had some trim pieces is Tom Karkiewicz,he lives in South Bend, won't hurt to refresh his memory though: (574) 287-5834.I have one of those joiners like you lost, I'll bring it. JDP is right replacing pump may not always fix noise but it has twice for me out of two times.

Frank van Doorn
1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
1963 Daytona Conv
1941 Champion R-2 Rod

GTtim
06-04-2007, 10:11 PM
Karl, good thing you figured out that it was the fuel pump. Personally, I think nearly all the pumps make some noise and it doesn't seem to cause any harm. It would be a good thing to take yours off and have a look at it to make sure it isn't falling apart or something. One thing I've noticed is that some of the pumps are made so they can be mounted using 3/8 in. bolts. Since the Stude engine uses 5/16 this leaves a considerable amount of wiggle room in the installation. Given that there is precious little room to work on one in a power steering equipped Hawk and it is also unlikely that the engine will stop where the cam would leave the pump in its most relaxed position, this adds up to the pump being mounted in the lowest point it can be. I've wondered if you could bump the engine over to where there wasn't all that pressure on the pump, then maybe you could hold it toward the top of the 'slop' in the mounting and if you were able to tighten it down there, maybe the knocking would be gone. Just a thought.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

MagikDraggin
06-04-2007, 11:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by GTtim

Karl, good thing you figured out that it was the fuel pump. Personally, I think nearly all the pumps make some noise and it doesn't seem to cause any harm. It would be a good thing to take yours off and have a look at it to make sure it isn't falling apart or something. One thing I've noticed is that some of the pumps are made so they can be mounted using 3/8 in. bolts. Since the Stude engine uses 5/16 this leaves a considerable amount of wiggle room in the installation. Given that there is precious little room to work on one in a power steering equipped Hawk and it is also unlikely that the engine will stop where the cam would leave the pump in its most relaxed position, this adds up to the pump being mounted in the lowest point it can be. I've wondered if you could bump the engine over to where there wasn't all that pressure on the pump, then maybe you could hold it toward the top of the 'slop' in the mounting and if you were able to tighten it down there, maybe the knocking would be gone. Just a thought.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk


To Tim: Yep, I can certainly give that a try before I fork out the bucks for another one.

To Nate: If I were make an attempt as better describing the sound, it would be that it sounds as if the lever inside the pump itself is spring-loaded and instead of it rising and lowering with the ramps on the cam lobe, it "snaps off" the end of the lobe, thereby making that "clack" sound on every revolution.

So maybe it IS in there crooked. Good tip. I'll do that in the morning and let ya'll in on the results. At least there's no PS pump on my hawk in the way. I got a clean shot at the fuel pump.

MagikDraggin
06-04-2007, 11:07 PM
quote:Originally posted by 41 Frank

The man that said he had some trim pieces is Tom Karkiewicz,he lives in South Bend, won't hurt to refresh his memory though: (574) 287-5834.I have one of those joiners like you lost, I'll bring it. JDP is right replacing pump may not always fix noise but it has twice for me out of two times.

Frank van Doorn
1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
1963 Daytona Conv
1941 Champion R-2 Rod


Thanks Frank, that would be very nice of you. I'll give that Tom fella a call tomorrow as well. Better safe than sorry.

50starlite
06-05-2007, 08:49 AM
Why not go electric, presto, no noise.

Dick
Mountain Home, AR
http://livingintheozarks.com/studebaker.htm

N8N
06-05-2007, 10:12 AM
In my case, it's a time and money issue :( No money to buy the parts, and no time to put them in even if I had them.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

MagikDraggin
06-05-2007, 12:26 PM
Well, all the wiggling and jiggling and repositioning of the fuel pump didn't do any good....it still goes thunk thunk thunk.

And to make matters worse no one in this forsaken town has one either. Hopefully one will arrive before it's time to hit the road to SB.

Thanks for all the help, people.

Karl

41 Frank
06-05-2007, 04:33 PM
Karl, NAPA should be able to get you one overnight from Omaha as their regional warehouse is here. Even O'Reilly's might be able to.
Their warehouse is in Des Moines I believe.

Lark Parker
08-22-2007, 12:23 PM
quote:Originally posted by GTtim

Karl, good thing you figured out that it was the fuel pump. Personally, I think nearly all the pumps make some noise and it doesn't seem to cause any harm. It would be a good thing to take yours off and have a look at it to make sure it isn't falling apart or something. One thing I've noticed is that some of the pumps are made so they can be mounted using 3/8 in. bolts. Since the Stude engine uses 5/16 this leaves a considerable amount of wiggle room in the installation. Given that there is precious little room to work on one in a power steering equipped Hawk and it is also unlikely that the engine will stop where the cam would leave the pump in its most relaxed position, this adds up to the pump being mounted in the lowest point it can be. I've wondered if you could bump the engine over to where there wasn't all that pressure on the pump, then maybe you could hold it toward the top of the 'slop' in the mounting and if you were able to tighten it down there, maybe the knocking would be gone. Just a thought.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk



For the 5/16" bolts in the 3/8" pump holes, some bolt "centering" bushings can be made from short pieces of 3/8" copper tubing. This will keep the pump arm square with the cam lobe.

The front bolt can be replaced with some thing a bit longer to allow a nut to be put on the back where the bolt pokes through. This will allow greater bolt torqueing on that side.

The torque is pretty light to keep from stripping the aluminum cover threads.


If at first you don't succeed you will get a lot of advice.
Lark Parker