To drive... or to overdrive?

[new2drive]

Ok, with everything I have been getting done on the 40 lately, one question keeps getting asked to me...
My 40 commander does NOT have overdrive, but the 49 commander I have does...
My father-in-law keeps telling me that I will want to pull the overdrive from the 49 and put it on the 40, which he says will be completely compatible. I believe him, but is this the right thing to do? And, more importantly, when, should I do it? I am currently pulling the rear drums to finish the brakes, so th ecar is on jack stands..

Realistically, the 49 was kept as a parts car for the sole purpose of being used for parts... obviously the bodys are not interchangeable, but the mechanicals are... both flat 6's, etc... The 49 was, I believe my wife's grandfather's car too.

I am trying to decide if I want to keep the 49 even at all. I think th eonly thing I plan to use from it would be the overdrive.... MY f-i-l tells me that the body on the 49 has a lot of patch work done to it, but I am thinking those parts could be pulled and repaired or just replaced later.

Any opinions from you guys are welcome, as always...

[mbstude]

Not sure if the trans would be a direct bolt in or not, but if so, I would definitely do it. Overdrive would completely transform the drive-ability of the car.

[Jim B PEI]

Aren't the 226 (40) and 245 (49) Commanders essentially the same motor/block? The bore is the same, just the stoke changed from 4 3/8 to 4 3/4?

Here is a thought--if they are the same visually, or could be made to look the same, why not consider the engine/transmission being donated maybe temporarily from the 49 to the 40? It would give you a change to restore the 40 Commander engine completely, and a complete transplant --if doable and reasonable-- would make all those pesky things like overdrive controls and carburetor bellcranks, overdrive downshift mechanisms etc so much easier to deal with. Then, later on change the 49 engine for the restored 40 engine, after getting lots of measurements etc.

Besides, the 49 Commander supposedly has 10% more horsepower (100 versus 90) as well as the higher 6.5 v 6.0 compression.

One thing--a friend converted a 100 hp 48 Kaiser flathead from straight shift to overdrive, but WITHOUT changing the rear axle ratio from the straight shift to the lower 4.56 that came with the overdrive. He just added the overdrive unit. It accelerated just the same as the straight shift car, but it also had a more usable highway "passing gear" of overdrive 2, as well as a more modern highway cruising speed with lower revs with the 3rd OD using the OEM straight shift axle ratio rather than changing to the OEM overdrive ratio. Quieter, better mileage too than the regular overdrive. He felt that it was the best change to any Kaiser he had ever driven

[mookandairin]

In my experience over the years, (if you go with the low rear gear said above 4.56) the overdrive will be great for mileage which will be awesome on longer trips you will love it and the first gear on a overdrive trans is lower than a non overdrive so it will have better pick up.as far as the motor goes with a 4 3/4 stroke it should be a torque monster and with the low first gear you should have a car that has great pickup WHICH = FUN, JMHO

[studegary]

To me, the biggest question is - What do you plan to do with the car? If you are just going to use it locally for fun, cruise-ins, shows, then just keep the car with the transmission without overdrive. If you plan on much highway driving, like to South Bend, convert it over to the overdrive set up. If you convert to overdrive, I would keep the differental that you now have, unless there is a problem with it. If you get rid of the '49, pull the overdrive transmission and assorted hardware/electrical parts from it if you are not now going to use it on your 1940.

[new2drive]

I will find out how it is connected. As for what I plan to do with it.... I plan to drive it... as much and as often and far as possible. I read more than a few articles that said, if restored correctly, the flat 6 would run forever... (I am paraphrasing). But honestly... I want to drive it, it is meant to be driven.... 50+ years in a garage, unmoving.... it is high time she sees the world... someday...

I didn't know why my father in law said to switch it over, but now I understand why. (You guys are great for answers and valued help!) He knows I want to drive it and also probably knows the advantages of mpg, etc... it would offer. I don't know a thing about the how to -YET- and really what you were saying Jim, but I do understand what you said.

Oh, as an aside, I mentioned before, the flat 6 in the 40 is a special order engine. It has much more hp than the original that would come standard. It was ordered that was because it was used as a tow car originally for the Studebaker dealership/repair garage. It even has a brush bumper (from factory) on it and the rear tires were these really wild "knobby" tires that resembled truck tires.

[woodysrods]

If you really want to drive this car, by all meens put an overdrive in it.
And if you want to get a jump on things. Check out the Big Six Eye Candy Thread.
This motor on eBay could be just what you need to have this car on the road.
Good Roads
Brian

[new2drive]

Woddy,
You lost me... What motor on eBay? I don't see a link in your post.

[Corvanti]

absolutely no question about it: go with the overdrive!!!
(from a '40 owner that doesn't have overdrive)

the ebay engine mentioned above:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-STUDEBAKER-BIG-SIX-COMMANDER-TRUCK-MOTOR-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZalgoQ3dLVIQ26ituQ3dUCIQ26otnQ3d5Q26poQ3dLVIQ26psQ3d63Q26clkidQ3d2452767764800978163QQ_trksidZp5197Q2em7QQitemZ110736750493

[Jim B PEI]

I will find out how it is connected. As for what I plan to do with it.... I plan to drive it... as much and as often and far as possible. I read more than a few articles that said, if restored correctly, the flat 6 would run forever... (I am paraphrasing). But honestly... I want to drive it, it is meant to be driven.... 50+ years in a garage, unmoving.... it is high time she sees the world... someday...

Oh, as an aside, I mentioned before, the flat 6 in the 40 is a special order engine. It has much more hp than the original that would come standard. It was ordered that was because it was used as a tow car originally for the Studebaker dealership/repair garage. It even has a brush bumper (from factory) on it and the rear tires were these really wild "knobby" tires that resembled truck tires.

Everything should bolt up--Studebaker didn't like to change things for no reason.

It sounds like you have a high compression head, and perhaps if you could find the casting number on it, someone could confirm it here. I have no info books prior to 1953, so the Big Six is out of my ken. Usually, a LOWER compression head was available for especially export markets ie 6.0 instead of 6.5, or 7.0 instead of of 7.5, but higher compression or other modifications were available.

I have a "high compression" head (8.0) to use on my 57 Champion 185 when I rebuild it. 185 engines came with 7.5 or 7.8 heads, except for the lower export heads, but a later 59-60 170 head will fit on a 55-58 185. As I said, Studebaker only changed stuff they absolutely needed to, so many parts of all sorts interchange over many years

If you haven't ordered the factory production order from the Studebaker National Museum for the 40 yet, by all means DO so! Inquiring minds want to know, especially about special order cars, and the order itself might contain some interesting information.

[new2drive]

I was just on their website... I need ot get my vin so I can see what they have to say about the car. I'll worry about the 49 later.
All that really sticks with me is that my father-in-law said the engine was bigger than normal upon order as it was originally going to be a farm vehicle of some sorts and then just wound up being used at the dealership. I think, but am not certain that he said the flat 6 did 90hp and that this motor was something like 105hp... don't quote me on that though.

[studeclunker]

I was just on their website... I need ot get my vin so I can see what they have to say about the car. I'll worry about the 49 later.
All that really sticks with me is that my father-in-law said the engine was bigger than normal upon order as it was originally going to be a farm vehicle of some sorts and then just wound up being used at the dealership. I think, but am not certain that he said the flat 6 did 90hp and that this motor was something like 105hp... don't quote me on that though.

Sounds like what my Great-Grandfather used to do. He had a sawmill that was originally run with a hit-and-miss motor. When the original motor died, the old man used a tin-lizzie that was on the property (rumour has it the car was his wife's). Since that worked so well, when it quit running, he bought another. When Ford said they were no longer going to make the 'T' he ordered three, just to make sure his sawmill had a motor. When my mother entered High School in the thirties, Great-Gramps lent one of the cousins one of the Tin-Lizzies to go to school with. The conditions were that she pick up her cousins and transport them to school and back every day, the weekends were hers. After the cousin left Mother to walk home a time or two, Mum used to grab the coil and stash it in her locker. This ensured the cousin couldn't leave without her.

Sorry about the non-studee reminices... you did mention Farm Equipment...

[new2drive]

I enjoy hearing all kinds of stories... as I posted in another thread... I am still confused...
The tag in the engine firewall is: 10AW-3 15189.... at least I knwo it is a 1940 commander by that... 10A
Now, everyone tells me the door pilliar will have the car id.... but there are no numbers on the pilliar, only a metal plate rivited on the driver side door frame near between the door hinges and it says the serial number is 4I65773.... I am not seeing an 8 anywhere?

[DEEPNHOCK]

IIRC...
The plate on the door should be your vehicle serial number (used for registration).
The cowl tag is just the body number.
(a sequential number used by the factory to identify the bare steel body tub to put it on the correct chassis)

I enjoy hearing all kinds of stories... as I posted in another thread... I am still confused...
The tag in the engine firewall is: 10AW-3 15189.... at least I knwo it is a 1940 commander by that... 10A
Now, everyone tells me the door pilliar will have the car id.... but there are no numbers on the pilliar, only a metal plate rivited on the driver side door frame near between the door hinges and it says the serial number is 4I65773.... I am not seeing an 8 anywhere?

[snowy_buffalo]

Now, everyone tells me the door pilliar will have the car id.... but there are no numbers on the pilliar, only a metal plate rivited on the driver side door frame near between the door hinges and it says the serial number is 4I65773.... I am not seeing an 8 anywhere?

I don't know where you got the 8 you talk about but I wouldn't worry too much about it. From th firewall tag you know the model, from the driver's door area you know the serial/vin number and NO the 4I for 41 doesn't mean it's a 41 model like you posted in your other thread.

Now as for the engine number...per the SDC tech pages (http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/tech_6data.asp) the engine number for a 40 Commander should be between H-87,601 and H-122,201 and this should be engraved into a flat area on the driver's side of the engine at the front of the side at the top corner. You may have to scrape grease to find it.