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azrael4h
06-01-2007, 10:28 PM
..the rear end on a '53 Champion? About how much power can one reliably withstand?

I'm debating removing and replacing mine; more to get rid of the open differential than for any other reason, but I'd like to know, off hand. Thanks.

Guard: Where are you going in such a hurry?
Gorrak the ranger: Uhhh...Gorrak have quiche in oven!!
Guard: well hurry along.

1953 Champion 2 door Sedan
2006 Chevrolet Cobalt LS Coupe

Alan
06-01-2007, 10:56 PM
Depends on automatic or stick. With the auto it will last forever. With the stick any morron could destroy it.

azrael4h
06-02-2007, 12:46 AM
The same could be said for a Dana 44, or a Dana 60, or pretty much any differential in existence. I was wanting to know how much power, as in horse power and torque, this thing is capable of withstanding. I really don't want to get things situated, and then have the thing grenade before I reach the end of the driveway.

My ideas do not leave a mere 85 gross hp engine in this car. I need to know how far I can go, so I will know if I should change the rear end to something beefier, or if it will do.

Thank you.

Guard: Where are you going in such a hurry?
Gorrak the ranger: Uhhh...Gorrak have quiche in oven!!
Guard: well hurry along.

1953 Champion 2 door Sedan
2006 Chevrolet Cobalt LS Coupe

Mike Van Veghten
06-02-2007, 01:42 AM
Ok then...why are you asking?

Will you be adding a second carburetor to your six...or will you be adding a 572 Big block Chevy?

You got the answer you asked for. If you want a better answer, ask a more detailed/informed question!

Mike

azrael4h
06-02-2007, 02:05 AM
No, I didn't. In fact, the answer really didn't tell me anything at all. It has very little bearing on the question. It's only loosely related because it references the differential in regards to the transmission setup. It tells me all of nothing of what I wanted to know.

If you need to ask, re-read my post a few times and try to understand it. The second sentence was pretty clear; and I clarified it further in my second post. If you can't answer it for whatever reason, then don't start insulting my intelligence by not reading the question. Just leave the thread alone, and go somewhere else.

Since you can't understand what I'm saying, I will clarify it again. If you cannot read this, it is on your end. It is already a near physical impossibility to get this any plainer without using a picture book.

I want to know roughly how durable the stock rear end in a 1953 model year Studebaker Champion would be. I want to know how much horse power/torque it can be expected to handle reliably. I want to know a base range, because I have ideas, and they have the very distinct possibility that the stock unit is not capable of handling the engine out put. If you do not know, then let the thread die instead of posting inane questions and insulting me. It serves no purpose. If no one can answer, fine.

Guard: Where are you going in such a hurry?
Gorrak the ranger: Uhhh...Gorrak have quiche in oven!!
Guard: well hurry along.

1953 Champion 2 door Sedan
2006 Chevrolet Cobalt LS Coupe

azrael4h
06-02-2007, 02:07 AM
Hotwheels63r2, thank you. You posted while I was typing. Thank you very much.

Guard: Where are you going in such a hurry?
Gorrak the ranger: Uhhh...Gorrak have quiche in oven!!
Guard: well hurry along.

1953 Champion 2 door Sedan
2006 Chevrolet Cobalt LS Coupe

azrael4h
06-02-2007, 08:46 AM
Thanks again, I will definitely need a beefier unit. IIRC the 169 put out 138lb/ft of Torque. So to me, that means the D23 has to be at 150ft/lb max, while the D27 probably 175-200.

I'm not entirely sure the Dana 44 will work, actually. Not for what I'm thinking of.

As to the suspension, It's going to be swapped out as it is for much heavier-duty stuff. Even if I keep the six stock, I like good handling cars.

Guard: Where are you going in such a hurry?
Gorrak the ranger: Uhhh...Gorrak have quiche in oven!!
Guard: well hurry along.

1953 Champion 2 door Sedan
2006 Chevrolet Cobalt LS Coupe

Alan
06-02-2007, 10:29 AM
az, was not attempting to insult your intelegence. I once put a hot 289 and auto in a 53K Champion. Took it out to San Fernando Raceway and turned 15 seconds flat and 89mph. Drove it around for a year, no problems. I went to sell it and the guy who came out to check it out while pulling out of my driveway hit a little sand on the blacktop then when it hit the concrete the axle snaped at the top of the taper. The wheel and drum came off and the pass. side fender crumpeled. They will take more torque than they are rated for but for how long and how sudden is the $64,000 question.

Swifster
06-02-2007, 10:39 AM
Dana 44's are pretty rugged units. The PBW has a Dana 44 and so does the S2D of Dick Steinkamp. I think Ted Harbit's car still has a Dana 44 in his. Of a more current vintage, GM used a revised Dana 44 in the manual transmissioned C4 Corvettes.

Are you going to have more than 450 HP? Are you using a manual trans or an automatic? The questions are relevent. I've seen a guy grenade a Ford 9" on the start line at Martin Dragway with a mild LT1 and a 6-speed in a '94 Camaro. Abuse anything hard enough and it will break. If this will be a high horsepower drag car, get a 9". If this is a street car, a Dana will be fine.

Remember, a driveline is only as strong as it's weekest link. Abuse the car and something will break, regardless of the parts used. Sometimes this is the clutch and sometimes it the rear end. Sometimes it's the trans, U-joints or the lower end of your engine. On my SCCA ITB car, it was the axles on my Suzuki Swift that I twisted (with a 120 HP engine!). I thought this was a fair trade off because replacing the axle on a FWD car was better than replacing the trans, clutch or engine.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

azrael4h
06-05-2007, 12:30 AM
Thanks all again.

I'm not going for 400 horsies. With gas like it is, heck no. I also don't intend to abuse it. I don't make so much money that I'll be willing to tear crap up that easily.

What I am considering is a AMC 4.0l HO/5 speed swap from a Cherokee. I love that engine (in an entirely non-illegal way), it's different than the standard SBC swap, and parts will be available; which is a plus considering I want to drive this thing.

It's a thought, for slightly better mileage, better performance, and above all the ability to find parts easily. I'm torn on it, because I have two 169 flatheads with 3 speed OD units sitting around, including the original motor and transmission. So if I wanted to go back to pure stock, I can. At the same time, I want to make this car my own driver;
something I know I can drive anywhere, and be able to match any new car in braking, handling, and mileage. So right now I don't know what I'm going to do, other than add seat belts. If it wasn't so complete, there'd be no question.


Alan, I wasn't referring to you at all in my third post. While you didn't really answer the question, you weren't pretentious or anything, and I apologize if I didn't make it clear that I wasn't referring to you. I have been working entirely too many hours lately, 12-14 hour shifts regularly, so I'm slightly tired when I get on the computer. Right now I've been up since 3am.

Guard: Where are you going in such a hurry?
Gorrak the ranger: Uhhh...Gorrak have quiche in oven!!
Guard: well hurry along.

1953 Champion 2 door Sedan
2006 Chevrolet Cobalt LS Coupe

Alan
06-05-2007, 10:20 AM
No problem az, That 4.0 and 5 speed should be a nice swap. The rear should live for some time if you don't punish it. But then the brakes leave something to be desired. Then the electronics and re-wireing. You aren't going to be driving that thing for at least 6 months. If you were around the L.A. area I wouldn't mind even building some mounts for it.

azrael4h
06-05-2007, 06:45 PM
I doubt I'll be driving it for two years at the least. I like to give myself a lot of time to do things, especially if it might end up being my neck or my wife's on the chopping block. Plus, I've got to get a few things before I can do some of the heavy work. Like a decent welder.

As to the brakes, biggest discs that'll fit under 15" wheels all around. That is a given. Wiring is already a rat's nest, so it's a non-issue as well. I can find a wrecked Cherokee, and have all the electronics and such; just have to adapt it all to the Stude body.

I'd take you up on the offer, but I'm almost as far away from LA as I can be without being on the east coast.

Guard: Where are you going in such a hurry?
Gorrak the ranger: Uhhh...Gorrak have quiche in oven!!
Guard: well hurry along.

1953 Champion 2 door Sedan
2006 Chevrolet Cobalt LS Coupe