PDA

View Full Version : rear hub removal on hawk



kpcoupe
05-31-2007, 10:40 PM
i have a 1957 silverhawk i am trying to get the hubs off of. i got a puller and have heated it as much as i can and it still will not budge does anyone have any ideas?

showbizkid
05-31-2007, 10:47 PM
I have heard the suggestion that you should tighten the puller as much as safety will allow, and then let it sit overnight (with nothing adjacent to it). Often the continued pull will pop off the hub after a few hours. Just make sure there's nothing valuable sitting next to it, as it will likely come off with some force!


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

kpcoupe
05-31-2007, 10:53 PM
i left the bolt loose but on the axle and the puller on there just as tight as i could get it hopefully when i get home it will be loose if not i guess i will just have to take the car to the crusher.
just kidding but i don't know what to do if i can't get it off.

JDP
05-31-2007, 11:09 PM
Notice the size of the hammer I use.:)
http://stude.com/drum.jpg

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

Guido
05-31-2007, 11:12 PM
As John says, if all else fails drag out the BFH!

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctor’s buggy; Studebaker horse drawn “Izzer” buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive).

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

60Lark
05-31-2007, 11:37 PM
I just finished the same project on my 56 Power Hawk, I had the hub puller on as tight as I could get it, for 7 days, using a 3 LB hand sledge hammer several times a day, I also used a torch to heat the hub, it still would not come off. Finally last night it popped loose, I was in the house and heard the pop out in the attached garage. I had the nut on backwards to protect the threads, had it not been there when it broke loose, by the sound of the pop when it came loose It might have gone through the wall.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6ce20b3127cce8d0e3b50356c00000000400CcNWTlozYsb http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6dc03b3127cce970d7aafd15f00000010100CcNWTlozYsb
Studebaker Fever
60 Lark
51 Champion
Phil
Arnold, Missouri

JDP
06-01-2007, 12:02 AM
You need to do the brake drum song, two or three raps on the dog bone, one hard one straight into the axle, repeat, wait for the pop. I've had to take a break from hammering, but never had one not come off in a half hour at most..

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

sumf
06-01-2007, 02:57 AM
Tf you don'r have something "protecting the threads," you can end up with crushed threads as the cotter pin hole gets oval. Very few nuts can chenge pitch going down a screw thread, so you toss the axle! Don't ask me how I know.
(It was on a Willys Bermida, IIRC.)
(Forty years ago!

(Shouldn't forty be spelled fourty?)

Karl

billwillard
06-01-2007, 05:48 AM
Losen nut 1/2 turn reinstall carter pin and drive until you hear a loud pop. Drum is now lose. Helps if you make hard turns. Some time like with a puller it seems like it is not going to break lose but it will work every time.

bonehead007
06-01-2007, 08:18 AM
Is this procedure the same for the Packard HAwk ???? Is the hub puller used for just the rear drums or do you need to use it on the front also ???? I'm going to be doing my brakes 2morrow and judging by everyones reply here this looks like its going to be loads of fun..........

41 Frank
06-01-2007, 09:09 AM
Packard Hawks have the same rear hubs, the puller is used on the rear only, fronts come off like most other cars.



quote:Originally posted by bonehead007

Is this procedure the same for the Packard HAwk ???? Is the hub puller used for just the rear drums or do you need to use it on the front also ???? I'm going to be doing my brakes 2morrow and judging by everyones reply here this looks like its going to be loads of fun..........

lstude
06-01-2007, 09:19 AM
There has been a lot of discussion on the removal of drums on the technical forum. Go to the technical forum and click on "search" and put in the words "brake drum".

Sometimes the front drums are hard to get off too, you need to back off the shoes. I always keep the wheel on the drum and that gives more leverage.

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/Mein64DaytonaatBradfieldssm2.jpghttp://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/52Commanderoutofgarage4-3.jpg

Randy_G
06-01-2007, 07:33 PM
When I pulled the Larks rear hubs they didn't wnat to come off so I just put alot of tension on them and left them. They poped off in about an hour on each one. Good times!

Randy_G
1959 Lark Sedan
www.AutomotiveHistoryOnline.com
http://www.automotivehistoryonline.com/sedan4small.jpg

bonehead007
06-03-2007, 08:58 AM
Wow what fun..Took me 2 hours b4 the first drum gave up and popped off.Gave the other just 4 wacks with a hammer than pop...

I'm going to take them to a machine shop to get cut but, do most shops have the specifications for older cars. Mine's a 58 Packard Hawk. Would they have the measurements or is that in the repair maunual ???

gordr
06-04-2007, 11:35 AM
quote:Originally posted by bonehead007

Wow what fun..Took me 2 hours b4 the first drum gave up and popped off.Gave the other just 4 wacks with a hammer than pop...

I'm going to take them to a machine shop to get cut but, do most shops have the specifications for older cars. Mine's a 58 Packard Hawk. Would they have the measurements or is that in the repair maunual ???



If they are rear drums from a V8 car, they should be 10" drums. The maximum allowable oversize is 10.060"

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

sbca96
06-04-2007, 09:14 PM
You might run a dial indicator on the hub after, to make sure that it
didnt get bent during the removal process. Because how these hubs are
stressed during removal, they can tweak. I used a BFH to knock one to
the point it was true.

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

kpcoupe
06-04-2007, 11:57 PM
they are off it took some heat and a lot of pressure but they finally gave up. now i can finish my brakes

studebaker-R2-4-me
06-05-2007, 01:18 AM
Question?

If a rear drum has been stressed during the hub removal process will this cause a slight wobbly tire effect?

1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone

sbca96
06-05-2007, 01:50 AM
Yes! I have posted this up a few times after measuring my rear hubs
during the Cobra Brake install. I was amazed at how "out" they were,
causing over .011 run out on the GOOD side. With drum brakes, you may
or may not notice a problem, but disc shows up in your pedal when you
get them warmed up the first time (ask me how I know!). Drum can hide
the problem because of the way pressure is exerted. Max disc run out
is about .005 in most applications, & a rule of thumb doubles the run
out at the hub to the edge of the rotor! The .011 becomes .022! That'll
make your right leg shake worse than a scared wet poodle in Alaska!

Tom


quote:Originally posted by studebaker-R2-4-me
If a rear drum has been stressed during the hub removal process will this cause a slight wobbly tire effect?

bonehead007
06-05-2007, 07:02 AM
Seeing that they are such a pain to remove, what was the purpose of Studebaker or any manufacturer in putting this type of drum on the car ?? Also, when I removed my wheels I noticed that the drivers side wheel nuts are the reverse of the passenger side when I removed them and when I have to install them. Are all of the Studebakers / Pacakrdbakers like this ???

gordr
06-05-2007, 10:46 AM
quote:Originally posted by bonehead007

Seeing that they are such a pain to remove, what was the purpose of Studebaker or any manufacturer in putting this type of drum on the car ?? Also, when I removed my wheels I noticed that the drivers side wheel nuts are the reverse of the passenger side when I removed them and when I have to install them. Are all of the Studebakers / Pacakrdbakers like this ???


Well, when you have the proper tools for the job, and are doing it routinely in a service shop, as was the case back in the day, the tapered axles are really not troublesome to deal with. They can be kind of intimidating to a do-it-yourself mechanic, the first time or two, though. Eventually you get the knack!

As to WHY they were used? Well, tapered axles were used by a lot of makers for many years. I suspect it may have been simply a case of "that's the way we've always done it", but maybe forging presses of the time weren't tooled up for making flanged axles.

Note that the tapered axles use tapered roller bearings, which can be adjusted for end play (remember to check you endplay as per the shop manual while the drums are off).

As to the left-hand nuts on the left axle studs, again, several makers used to do that. Chrysler products come to mind, and they kept it up into the the '60s at least. The idea is to prevent slightly loose wheel nuts from becoming further loosened by movement of the wheel. In principle, it does help. I think the last year Studebaker used this feature was 1958. I know LH studs were routinely used up to 1957, anyway.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

StudeRich
06-05-2007, 08:09 PM
Studebaker and Packard started using right hand thread all around, in 1958.
Oh, and late 1965-'66 and '64 R3,R4, '66-'85 Avanti and Avanti II for flanged Dana/Spicer axles.

I think you would find all of the independents: Hudson, Kaiser/Frasier/Henry J, Packard, Nash, International, Willys and also all Chrysler products in the 1950's and older using left hand thread on the left. Also most had tapered axles too. It was considered safer, (in terms of drum retention, HP was not over 250-300 then) more durable and was probably cheaper than the Ford flanged axle.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

Tom B
06-05-2007, 09:47 PM
The left hand nuts began with wagons. If you put a right hand nut on a left axle of a wagon, it would unscrew. When they went to several nuts on the wheel, they continued the practice to keep them from unscrewing. Eventually they realized that only nuts on the axle itself would unscrew, and they had cotter pins in them.

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Bothcars.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'60 Lark VI
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All three Indiana built OD cars