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View Full Version : Will SOMEBODY clear this up?!?



bams50
05-30-2007, 09:53 PM
So far, no responses to my plea for a trans.; but in case someone does, I'm trying to figure out what exactly I need for 1960
Studebaker Lark wagon, 259 cu. in., 3-spd. manual with overdrive, column shift, 4 door, green in color............

So far I've been told:

6 cyl. truck will work
6 cyl. truck won't work
8 cyl. truck will work
8 cyl. truck won't work
Must be 58-up
Any years 53-64 will work
Only 59-60
Only 59-66 Lark
If top cover has 6 bolts it's what I need
If top cover has 4 bolts it won't work
Makes no difference how many bolts in top cover

At the rate I'm going, these questions may be academic[V]

I'm still holding out hope there'll be someone who wants to sell me a trans.; I've e-mailed a couple folks that said they sell parts, and NO response[}:)][?] Carl Purdy offered to ship his, but it's a 56; will it work, or not?!?

I'm so clueless about these cars; maybe I'll just drag it to SB as-is with "For Sale" signs...


Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Stude4x4
05-30-2007, 11:07 PM
I have an automatic trans from V8 wagon that I'd sell you. I don't know what they are worth. Make an offer. I also have a 3spd w/OD out of another V8 car that I'd sell. Again, don't know what they are worth, make an offer.

This will clear things. The truck trans. are different than car trans and they will not interchange. The tailshaft on the 3 speeds are longer on the car and the planetary has only three gears and the trucks have four. The trucks were beefier. I believe that the 6cyl trannys will fit on an 8cyl as long as you have the correct bellhousing.

-Home of John Studebaker-
http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t95/stude4x4/
http://varozza4x4.com
http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t95/stude4x4/th_505911685npTTka_fs.jpghttp://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t95/stude4x4/th_FullSize.jpghttp://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t95/stude4x4/th_normal_scan.jpg

JDP
05-30-2007, 11:24 PM
The Commander six OD unit will bolt up to the bell housing, but the tail shaft is too short for the one piece drive shaft.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

gordr
05-31-2007, 12:53 AM
So far I've been told:

6 cyl. truck will work
No.
8 cyl. truck will work
Maybe, if from a Champ.
Must be 58-up
Yes.
Any years 53-64 will work
No.
Only 59-60
'58 - '64 AFAIK
Only 59-66 Lark
Hawk tranny should work, too.
If top cover has 6 bolts it's what I need
Yep, model T86
If top cover has 4 bolts it won't work
Yep, model T96, for six cyl. only.
Makes no difference how many bolts in top cover
Nope; can't use six cylinder tranny, even if you MAKE it fit, it's too light for a V8, ask me how I learned that.;)

Now, I have a T86 from a '62 Lark VIII here in my garage, and I expect to be getting another one. Both overdrive. I will sell this one for $100, which I think is a fair price, but shipping from Alberta to new York would be a deal-breaker, IMHO. I could haul it to South Bend with me.

What's wrong with your existing transmission? I do have some loose tranny parts and OD parts, too. Let me know. Shipping a few parts wouldn't be so bad. Lot of iron in that case, you know.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

Swifster
05-31-2007, 01:39 AM
I don't know, call me crazy, but...can the transmission that's in the car now be rebuilt? Very few things typically go bad in a manual trans. I would also think parts would still be locatable.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

sbca96
05-31-2007, 04:16 AM
Robert .. I sent you an Email through the forum today, did you get it?
A local guy here has some parts, I included his email for your to get
hold of him (didnt want to post it in the forum without an OK). I also
sent him an email letting him know to expect your message.

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

bams50
05-31-2007, 06:27 AM
Replies in order:

Stude4x4- Thank you, but I want to keep it a manual trans. I have a couple autos myself.

gordr- Good answers; and we'll see- I may have to look into shipping from AB...

hotwheels63r2- E-mailed you through forum twice, did you get either? Would be very interested in one if you'll ship. I'm confused about the numbers and letters, and don't have the trans out yet; so don't know what the number would be. Will barely have time to switch one, and so not able to even think about repairing (which I could do); I will hang onto it, though...

Swifster- You're not crazy; sure they can be rebuilt; and probably is the best way to go... but I will not be able to even dream about doing that for the foreseeable future, certainly not before SB. As to condition, I know it's bad; O/D blown, no reverse, grinds loudly on deceleration in high gear...

scba96- Thanks for the contact, Tom; I did get your e-mail, and will contact him if I don't get a deal made in the next day or two.


Thank you for your responses. Between work and a business expansion/building project, I'm currently working 14-20 hr. days. When we swap trannies, it'll be very late at night- me, my head mechanic, and another tech... they've taken pity on poor old Molly (and poor old me) and have agreed to come in on a night when I'm able to jump on it and get it done in a couple hours.

In the works are plans to set up a resto shop at my home, complete with rotisserie, blasters, MIG and TIG welders, in-floor heating, and paint booth. My dream is to not only do restos on these great old cars, but to help others do it, and show them how to do the work themselves, on a not-for-profit basis... but that's a few years off. Currently I have a real challenge squeezing out an hour or 2 here and there for my old cars. So till then I'll be limited on how much I'm able to do; hence the need for, in this case, a bolt-in part...

Looking forward to getting away to SB for a few days!

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Captain Billy
05-31-2007, 07:47 AM
For what it's worth, I just had my 3-speed with OD redone by a trusted tranny shop here in Kingston, not too far from you. It's back in the car now and is doing just fine, they were able to do it in a couple of days. I supplied a few parts, blocking rings and a gasket set, these parts are readily available. Yours may need more, but it could be an option if you're interested.
I can be reached at 613 544 0046

bams50
05-31-2007, 01:56 PM
OK Mike, I'll get under it tomorrow afternoon.

I clicked on the link in your profile to send you the e-mails; so be advised that is not working.

I'll use the e-mail in your earlier post.

Thanks!
Bob

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Dick Steinkamp
05-31-2007, 08:17 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

I clicked on the link in your profile to send you the e-mails; so be advised that is not working.



Agressive spam filters will put messages sent through the forum into the "junk mail" folder. I often find mail from forum members in my junk mail folder (yahoo mail).

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

bams50
06-01-2007, 06:20 AM
quote:Originally posted by Captain Billy

For what it's worth, I just had my 3-speed with OD redone by a trusted tranny shop here in Kingston, not too far from you. It's back in the car now and is doing just fine, they were able to do it in a couple of days. I supplied a few parts, blocking rings and a gasket set, these parts are readily available. Yours may need more, but it could be an option if you're interested.
I can be reached at 613 544 0046


Thank you for that info. I do have a trans. shop locally that's really good with these things; just no time to have him break it down, search for parts, call me with a list of stuff he can't find, hunting for the pieces, acquiring said pieces, and waiting for it to be reassembled; especially when they're fairly plentiful- and SB's just a couple of weeks away [:0]

I may eventually have the original redone, though.

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

sbca96
06-01-2007, 12:34 PM
I hear yah on that .. but what if the replacement is just as bad after
you go through the trouble of swapping it in?[:I][V]

Tom


quote:Originally posted by bams50
just no time to have him break it down, search for parts, call me with a list of stuff he can't find

PackardV8
06-01-2007, 01:47 PM
Greetings, Robert,

Everyone here is being nice and trying to help, but you said yourself [b]"I'm so clueless about these cars."/b]

Many here have forty or fifty years in the Studebaker hobby and have been there, done that often enought to know the odds are against what you propose to do. One maxim to which most of us subscribe is, "Never let a Studebaker know you are in a hurry." To get a used transmission shipped to you, install it in a couple of hours late at night and then drive it to South Bend and back with no problems will sorely tempt fate.

There is a complete T-86 overdrive transmission and linkage on the shelf which came out of a running '63 Daytona. I had thought of offering it to you for $150. Even knowing the transmission was working fine when removed, there is no way I would want you to do what you are proposing using my transmission.

Best of luck to you in this project, in your new business and your dream garage.

thnx, jack vines.

PackardV8

bams50
06-01-2007, 02:16 PM
Whoops, my bad... I tend to think everyone here is a frequent reader, and therefore always knows the background[:I]

The car will come to SB on my tow dolly; and will see just a few miles in the area.

As for the rest- While I know relatively little about Stude-specific things, I AM extensively experienced with cars; restoring, racing, repairing. With 3 guys, a lift, and all the tools (including air-powered), a couple hours will be more than enough to R&R a manual trans., and do it right. No odds to worry about!

Thanks for your input.



Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
06-01-2007, 02:23 PM
quote:

quote:Originally posted by bams50
just no time to have him break it down, search for parts, call me with a list of stuff he can't find


Originally posted by sbca96

I hear yah on that .. but what if the replacement is just as bad after
you go through the trouble of swapping it in?[:I][V]

Tom


I think that while it's possible, it's very unlikely; std. trannies are pretty easy to pull the cover on and get a good idea of condition, and run through the gears manually; with an auto. I'd never do it unless someone I trust told me they'd actually driven it...

Again, though- time precludes any other solution if I want it for SB [B)]

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Roscomacaw
06-01-2007, 03:38 PM
What's the old line about too many cooks spoiling the Stue??? [}:)]

You NEED a 58 or later T-86 O/D CAR (not truck) transmission. Period.
Yes, MAYBE something else COULD be cobbled into a workable alternative, but why go that "maybe" route and risk frustration and wasted time and money???
It's not wrong to suggest that a TRUCK T-86 "COULD" work because they are of the same "Family" (the T-86 family). But they were modified in different ways to accomodate the service and the installation they were expected to see. Truth is, "T-86" isn't very defining. T-86s were used in Fords and Ramblers too, yet I doubt any of them would be bolt-on ready to run in a Stude.

Heck, there's FIVE different part numbered T-86O/D trannies listed for '58 thru 64 V8 cars! While these would ALL look alike externally, there's differences in the gear ratios to attain the IDEAL performance with the rear axle they were intended to be paired with OR, in some cases the duty they might be expected to see.
That said, I think any of them would do fine for what you expect from your wagon. Anyone here wanna educate me otherwise? I don't wanna be offering up wrong info.:(

Prior to 1958, the cars used a 2-piece driveshaft that hooked up to the tranny in a totally different way. This means earlier trannys are not going to accept your current driveshaft - period.

I wish I had one to sell you. I don't. In fact, the only such tranny I have here at the moment is one that's in a running car.
There was one in a wrecking yard about 80 miles from me that I've needled myself about not saving, but they want $100 for it and I have to get in the dirt to free it from where it's trapped. [:I]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Dick Steinkamp
06-01-2007, 03:49 PM
quote:Originally posted by PackardV8
To get a used transmission shipped to you, install it in a couple of hours late at night and then drive it to South Bend and back with no problems will sorely tempt fate.



It certainly might tempt fate, but I wouldn't say Robert's plan is totally out of the question. He says he'll have 2 mechanics to help him. Sure, if you start breaking off bolts or find some "mystery" problem, it may not work out, but just changing out a stick shift trans is not a super difficult project (especially with the help Robert will have and the use of a lift). I've done it in under 4 hours and I'm not that good :).

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

bams50
06-01-2007, 07:53 PM
OK, here's what the trans. says on the side:

T86E-1T
W.O. Division

Mike- Still am not able to get an e-mail through to you; please get back to me or let me have your phone # and a good time to call- or mine is 315-440-7351.

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

PackardV8
06-01-2007, 08:37 PM
The flat rate for a three-speed swap is probably around 30 minutes. 1. If there is a new, identical transmission on the cart.
2. If the car has been steam-cleaned underneath

But as we know, most Studebakers have about an inch of hard grease/dirt caked on the transmission. The shift linkage arms on the exchange transmission are different for some reason, could it have had a floor shift conversion? The U-joint bolts must have been hit by a curb at some point, cause they are bent. Actually, it needs new U-joints, cause there aren't any needles left in these and it is late and the parts stores are closed. The overdrive seems to be wired up correctly, but doesn't work at all. And why is it jumping out of second gear on overrun? And is that the sun coming up? Been there, done that. I was eighteen and thankfully, the pain has faded, but not the memory.

thnx, jv.


PackardV8

bams50
06-01-2007, 08:47 PM
quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

Been there, done that.

Me too- only literally probably a hundred times.

Thanks again- and keep that trans. safe from folks like me. ;)

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

gordr
06-01-2007, 09:38 PM
Here's dumb idea for your consideration: why not pull the bad tranny out, and bring it AND the car to South Bend. Line up a source or two for parts, and have a tranny repair seminar right there in the parking lot. Turn it into a teaching/learning experience.

I'm willing to get my hands dirty.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

bams50
06-01-2007, 10:41 PM
Hmm....... interesting idea! I'd be willing to get into it- except for laying under the car re-installing it...[xx(]

I could bring Molly in running condition with a donor trans. already in, redo the original per your idea, and reinstall it at a later date back home- on the lift...;)

What do you think of that?

P.S. to hotwheels- still waiting to hear back from you....[?]

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

gordr
06-02-2007, 04:04 AM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

Hmm....... interesting idea! I'd be willing to get into it- except for laying under the car re-installing it...[xx(]

I could bring Molly in running condition with a donor trans. already in, redo the original per your idea, and reinstall it at a later date back home- on the lift...;)

What do you think of that?

P.S. to hotwheels- still waiting to hear back from you....[?]

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1




Robert, based on your original post, it sounds like you blew up the planetary gear assembly and/or the overrunnning clutch assembly on your overdrive. These parts are quite easy to change, but it requires a complete teardown of the transmission to do it. Not that it's all that hard to do. A manual transmission, even with overdrive, is not all that complicated, as long as you limit your options to: do I keep the old, damaged part, or do I swap in a new, or apparently intact used part?

I'm sure that there may be people who will chime in and say, "yes, but... you have to set the end play on the syncro rings, yada, yada." Well if you have a full parts bin of all the selective-fit parts, then, yes, you can do that. But if all you have is a choice between a broken original part, and an intact replacement, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to make the call.

If all the parts are available, and if there were a better place to be than South Bend to find all the necessary parts, I'd like to know it, I estimate it wouldn't take more than 2 - 3 hours to tear down your old tranny and replace the busted parts. I'm thinking that the gears in the 1-2-3 part of the tranny are OK, and other than than new mainshaft bearings, nothing needs to be done there. In the OD section, I expect that the planetary gears, overrunning clutch, and balk ring would need replacement. (Based on your original post).

Hope this helps.

Let me know if you want to try and do this, because I will have to pack my snap ring pliers, and a box of miscellaneous OD and T86 parts.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

mbstude
06-02-2007, 12:13 PM
Sounds like a cool plan fellas! Go for it! [8D]

Matthew Burnette
'59 Scotsman
'63 Daytona
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/orange-2.jpg

danoperd
07-05-2007, 03:56 PM
I am helping a friend clean out a barn with many parts in it and i googled a trans I have and your request came up. I seem to have what you may need. The fellow that owned all of this stuff was a huge Stuebaker guy and there is a lot of that stuff. call me or write 920-324-5932 or 8ptduck@powercom.net.
Dano

Dick Steinkamp
07-05-2007, 06:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by danoperd
The fellow that owned all of this stuff was a huge Stuebaker guy


Could be any number of us.

[:o)]

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

danoperd
07-05-2007, 08:49 PM
Sorry I thought that I was replying to Bam50 specificly. I think I have the Tranny that Robert andrews was looking for. I have a studebaker tranny with overdrive. I do not have any other info on it but I do know that there was a lot of Lark parts. If therre is any interest on this tranny please write 8ptduck@powercom.net.
Thanks
Dano

Guido
07-05-2007, 10:45 PM
Dano,

The transmission for Molly was rebuilt in South Bend and was installed in Molly 15 days ago. Pictures of the rebuild can be seen here (included with my other S.B. photos).

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/559572216nAgQaG

However, I think that Rob Young in Wyoming is looking for one. Flip on over to the Studebaker Truck Talk site (see link below) and see his post there.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/23885/message/1183594008/T86+OD+Long+tailshaft+CAR+trans+needed.

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctor’s buggy; Studebaker horse drawn “Izzer” buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive and numerous Oliver and Cockshutt tractors).

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

bams50
07-05-2007, 11:14 PM
Dano, sent you an e-mail.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1