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sbca96
05-27-2007, 04:57 PM
EDIT for picture location, and to add critical Q & A thread link.

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?2282-Avanti-power-steering-system-rebuild-Q-A/

The rebuild process ended up happening on the above thread mostly, I
will make an effort to transfer the info eventually, but for now the
above link can be used - 12/31/08

Back to the original thread :

OK, those following these threads know that the pump is now rebuilt,
the ram is off the car and clean, but the control valve has not been
cooperating in the least. After I got the starter off, I finally was
able to see the core plug thats been leaking for the last decade. It
came out fairly easy with a screw driver and after a hole was made, a
Studebaker jack/lug nut tire iron. Not a lot of room to get the new
one back in, so I figured once the control valve/pitman arm was out of
the way, things would open up. Problem is, I have a clearance issue.
I can not get either my 3/4 breaker bar, nor my 3/4 ratchet onto that
pitman arm bolt - the engine block is in the way. The socket needed
is a 1-1/4, which requires a 3/4 drive. Jacking up the engine doesnt
sound realistic, so I was considering a 1-1/4 box end wrench. I dont
remember having this problem with my Hawk, but the engine IS also in a
different location in relation to the steering box, so that might play
an important role. I ended up getting a 1/2 inch drive 1-1/4 socket
from Sears (my set only went up to 1-1/8). As was mentioned by Mike
Mudd, it will fit beween the engine and the nut. With a bar on the 1/2
drive, and a pipe against the tierods to stop the steering system from
flexing, I was able to break the nut loose. The small puller that I
got (listed as a tie rod/import pitman arm) is smaller than that one
recommended by Mike, it doesnt fit over that thick and fat Studebaker
pitman arm. Autozone had the larger one and for 15 bucks I brought it
home. It was recommended to use a shorter 5/8-18 bolt in the puller
but I decided to see if I could fit it up in there. Due to removing
that leaking core plug, I had extra room you wouldnt normally have. I
cranked down on the bolt and sprayed both sides of the spline with PB
Blaster - it sat with tension on it for a couple days - no change :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/PitmanArm_002a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/PitmanArm_005a.jpg

I figured I just wasnt getting enough leverage with the open end of
the wrench, so I got a grade 8 bolt in the town I work, and modified
it to center on the hole in the shaft. Its a 1-3/4 long bolt & I took
the last 1/2 of thread off, and then ground a point on it, with a bit
of a shoulder, like the bolt included with the puller. The point is
an important addition, it centers the bolt on the shaft and keeps it
from "walking" off the shaft when its turned. If it walks, the puller
can break from side load, or the threads on the shaft could be damaged.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/PitmanArm_006a.jpg

I greased up the threads and put it on the pitman arm. I used a 15/16
open end wrench, with 3/4 box end wrench slipped onto the open end to
get more leverage. I tighted it down, and used a piece of steel to
hit the side of the pitman arm with a sledge hammer.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/PitmanArm_007a.jpg

Success! A couple hits, and tightened the puller some more and it got
loose and came off. Finally!!

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/PitmanArm_008a.jpg

Removed the cotter pin and nut from the other end of the control valve
on the bell crank, and put my pickle fork tie rod separator in there,
a couple hits from the sledge and it came loose.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_001a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_002a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_004a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_005a.jpg

Tom

sbca96
05-27-2007, 09:29 PM
Did some cleaning ...

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_006a.jpg

Tom

Bills R2
05-27-2007, 09:54 PM
I just got mine back togeather...I have R3 manifolds and decided to pull the steering box to make life easier.Bad idea!
I had to pull the manifold to get the box out and it was no small chore to get the box and the manifold out at the same time. Because I detailed the box and manifold,getting them back in with any paint left on them was a whole new issue! I pulled the master and brake booster to get the box in from the top and I pulled the PS pump to get the manifold in from the bottom! The trick was to let the box hang from the column and pull the column back about an inch to snake the manifold around the pitman shaft. I sounded like the old man from" A Christmas Story" changing the flat tire!!
All better now :)

'64 R2 back on da road again
POCI,SCCA,SIMTA

jimmijim8
01-25-2010, 09:04 AM
quote:Originally posted by sbca96

Did some cleaning ...

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_006a.jpg

Tom
Tom, do you have a continuation of this. nice work jimmijim

Stude Junkie+++++++Do it right the f$$$$ Time. Never mind. Just do it right. When youre done your done. You'll know it.

sbca96
01-25-2010, 01:05 PM
There is a note, and a link at the top of the page, I need to get some
spare time to copy/paste and organize the pieces in the other thread.

Tom

jackb
01-25-2010, 05:48 PM
I had good luck using a very large Crescent Wrench to remove the nut. I then bought the puller you showed (or one very much like it) and hacksawed the length needed to fit. No clearance problems..came out nicely. I don't remember if I put Locktite on those threads or not.........BTW, all you guys complaining about your engines overheating......see all the casting crud & gunk inside and behind the expansion (freeze) plug....At this point, you need to pull all the plugs and flush clean with coat hangers etc....I know I'm repeating this, but I found it easier to take care of all the oil leaks, new freeze plugs, cleaned block etc...ot of the car....made for a very easy PS valve install too......its easier than you think.....

sbca96
07-03-2010, 03:59 PM
I dont know why .. but this thread got destroyed during the upgrade of
the forum. Some of my other threads got screwed up the same way.
Its obvious that its messed up - if you look at post 1, one of the picture
links is half typed ... not my style. A real loss.

Tom

Skip Lackie
07-04-2010, 08:59 AM
Tom-
I really enjoy your how-to articles, even if I don't intend to do a similar job any time soon. I hope a way can be found to recover and re-assemble the missing pieces.

sbca96
07-04-2010, 03:47 PM
I am going to find out how to send the mod a message, and see if there is a
backed up database that can be restored. Thanks

Tom

sbca96
05-30-2014, 01:54 AM
Transferring from the Q&A thread listed above ...

OK ... trying to get the new return line on, I just could NOT get it to fit past the zerk
tower. I tried to bend it a little, and that did not work either. I got frustrated and got
it close, then hit it with the end of the screwdriver handle - which put a knick in the
new metal bent end.:( These are amazingly soft material.

I decided to unscrew the zerk tower to get the line on, and than put it back on after
I wasnt ready for this result :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_problems/ControlValveZerk_001a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_problems/ControlValveZerk_002a.jpg

Just how screwed am I? I have a feeling this is VERY bad. Who knew the tower was
NOT threaded in?? Its a freakin 7/16 bolt head!!!

Tom

sbca96
05-30-2014, 01:56 AM
So during the cleaning process the, once rubber, block between the pitman arm and the
control valve snapped in half. Mike informs me it available through S.I. but I think that
might have found it at Napa, its part number NOS4938 :

http://www.napaonline.com/masterpages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=NOS&PartNumber=4938&Description=Power+Steering+Pitman+Arm+Shaft+Seal

What do you think?

Also, I took some pictures of the new hoses. You can see the original hose on the control
valve (brownish/gold), and I am holding the new hose, the bend is completely different:

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_problems/ControlValveHose002a.jpg

Also notice that there is NO way the return line will clear the tower I broke off ... whats
going on here??

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_problems/ControlValveHose001a.jpg

According to the packaging I got the correct hose ...... BTW, is this new hose "made in
USA" or "made in Canada"?

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_problems/ControlValveHose003a.jpg

Tom

sbca96
05-30-2014, 01:58 AM
If they say that getting a little done each day is GOOD, then I have certainly perfected doing
ONLY a little. I bought a tubing bender and mounted it into a vice at work. I tried to use the
handle on it to bend the tubing but couldnt get any leverage, by putting the handle in the vice,
I could use my body weight and hold the tube. I made a bend the opposite direction, and it
seems to clear now :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_problems/ControlValveHose004a.jpg

I also picked up a new 90 degree threaded zerk, I will take the valve apart to install a new seal
pad on the pitman arm (it broke while I was cleaning it - hard as a rock) and tap the new zerk
into the valve and go back and remove the protruding threads on the inside.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_problems/ControlValveZerk_003a.jpg

Here is the seal block I made and the old one, I measured the shaft on the pitman arm tonight
and it seems to be .615, and made the hole in my seal pad .500, so I might open it up to .625.
The material is some scrap .500 thick Rubatex closed cell neoprene "bun". Thoughts?

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_problems/ControlValve_seal001a.jpg

Tom

sbca96
05-30-2014, 02:04 AM
I am going to open the hole up in all 4 test pieces to .620. The material I am using is .500 thick
so it should compress to about .250 at the thinnest point. The other option I have for material
is .875, which seemed too thick. From what I can tell by looking at the old part, it started off
.500 thick, its a tad under that now, but the material will shrink a little over time.

Tom

sbca96
05-30-2014, 02:11 AM
OK .. NOW what comes off?? This thing wont come apart!

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_007a.jpg

My control valve doesnt want to come apart, I thought by taking the reach rod off
I was going to magically expose some secret compartment and Gollum might come out
and help me with "My Precious".

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_008a.jpg

I made some marks with my dremel on the exposed threads :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_009a.jpg

Unscrewed it :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_010a.jpg

Nothing in there :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_011a.jpg

This thing has flats on it, but it wont budge :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_012a.jpg

Tom

sbca96
05-30-2014, 02:18 AM
I think you are at step 6 of the disassembly instructions from the Avanti manual I sent. The part that holds the pitman arm ball, and that the reach rod screwed into, is called the "actuator assembly". The rod that extended through the valve body is the "spool bolt". Step 6 says pull the spool bolt out of the actuator assembly a little, and you will see the lockpin for the stop screw, that you are having trouble with. The actuator assembly is often clogged with dirt and half dried grease. You may have to soak the assembly in kerosene, to free it up enough to take it apart.
I'll send the picture from the Avanti parts book. It's clearer than the one in the manual.
Follow the steps in the manual. Avoid "short cuts". You can do a better job cleaning the valve body without the hoses. Mike M.

OMG was that simple. Once the pin is out the thing on the end it easy to turn :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_013a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_014a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_015a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_016a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_017a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_018a.jpg

Tom

sbca96
05-30-2014, 02:23 AM
Well .. I tried to thread the new zerk into the housing and this thing must be made of some
HARD material. It took the threads right off the zerk!

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_019a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_020a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_021a.jpg

There isnt much material there to tap, thats one problem, the next is that there is a tube
that slides IN the housing, and must clear the zerk on the inside. That leaves about 1 to 2
threads - not enough. I thought about welding a Zerk "bung" on there, but since I had the
one in the picture with me, I just had that welded on. I ground off most of the threads so
my friend brazed/welded it on - DONE!:

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_022a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_023a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_024a.jpg

Tom

sbca96
05-30-2014, 02:35 AM
I made a couple little changes to the seal :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_025a.jpg

Then started putting it back together, assembly is just reverse of dis-assembly ... right? :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_026a.jpg

Ball goes into the socket :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_027a.jpg

Add the sliding cover :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_028a.jpg

Put them together :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_029a.jpg

thread the other pieces back in :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_030a.jpg

Line up the pin :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_031a.jpg

and put the pin back in :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_032a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_033a.jpg

Tom

sbca96
05-30-2014, 02:53 AM
Put the two halves back together :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_038a.jpg

The pieces in the rear :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_039a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_040a.jpg

The nut :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_041a.jpg

The cap and two bolts.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_042a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_043a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_ControlValve/ControlValve_044a.jpg

Thread the tie rod end back on to your marks and tighten the clamp. Done.

Tom

sbca96
05-30-2014, 02:59 AM
Once I got it back together, the steering was overly twitchy, like too much assist.


Tom,

Pull the small aluminum cover off the end of the control valve (held on by two screws) and adjust the self locking nut that is under the cover. Loosen it one or two flats max, replace the cover, and drive the car. See if this helps the 'darting' situation. I think it will. Keep adjusting until the steering responds to your liking.

This nut is, for a lack of a better term, the sensitivity adjustment for the control valve spool. I think you have this adjustment too tight. If the steering is slow to return to center, loosening this nut will also help that.

On my '64 GT, I spent several hours tweaking this adjustment, driving the car, adjusting, etc. At the end, I was only moving the nut a very small amount. The time was well spent tho, and when it was finally adjusted it had no wander, the steering was very responsive, and I was able to easily drive the car with two fingers on the wheel even on rough roads (even on the rough roads around Dearborn when we went to the National Meet there).

Paul

What a difference!! I just turned the nut back 1.5 flats and buttoned it up. Feels like a new car!
Steering is tight and responsive. I am very impressed its THIS good since I have yet to do the tie
rods and the bellcrank. I am VERY pleased! It so good I dont want to adjust it anymore to see if
it gets better. Its just THAT good!

THANK YOU (again) PAUL!

Tom

Hope this helps someone in the future ... only took me over 5 years to get back to this.

JoeHall
05-30-2014, 10:30 AM
Thanks Tom,
My 62GT has never turned as easily as every other PS equipped Stude I've owned. If the steering wheel is turned to quickly it chirps the belt, i.e. when parking. I have just learned to live with it and give it its time. Over the years, it has went through a couple of pumps, and no change to the steering. I had thought maybe the hoses had became internally swollen and restricted over the years, and bought a new set off SI a few years ago, but never got round to installing them.

One of these days, guess I'll rebuild the control valve, and see what happens. This thread will give me courage to tackle it myself.

Thanks Again,
Joe H

David
05-30-2014, 09:55 PM
Dont forget to do the hose seats. I rebuilt mine a few years ago and installed new hoses from SI. The leaky valve was better but it leaks at the fittings now. The kit I had didn't have the hose seats. I had a hard time locating the. Local place just looked at me cross-eyed when it explain what I wanted. I found this site though and I am about to place and order for the kit. http://www.stangerssite.com/CVparts.html

sbca96
05-31-2014, 04:25 AM
Well, its been quite a number is years since I did this repair and it hasn't leaked a drop of fluid in
all that time, I figure I'm good. Perhaps your fittings were not tightened enough, always use the
correct flare fitting wrench when working on these and get the goodntight. If you noticed wear
I can see changing them out, but in 30 years of Studebaker maintenance I never replaced one.

Worthwhile looking for excessive scoring or gouges.

Tom

bezhawk
05-31-2014, 09:18 AM
The replacement seals damage very easily . The best way to install them is to have the valve out and install one end,the steel washer, then slide the valve through the middle. Push the valve through as far as you can without pushing the new seal out of the bore, and install the other new seal on the opposite end of the valve.
By doing this there is no poking or trying to push the seal and possibly damaging the outside sealing lip.
If your hoses are good, you don't have to disassemble everything to change the seals. Remove the end cap, and adjusting nut, remove the spring seat, spring, spacer, and other spring seat. On the front of the valve body remove the two 1/2" cap screws, and slide the valve body rearwards off the spool valve rod. Leav all the hoses attached, then replace the seals as described, and slide newly sealed valve back over the rod and reassemble in reverse order. You can change the seals in less than 1 hour!
It can be done on the car without having to pull the pitman arm, or having to disassemble any of the front section of the valve, or even have to remove any hoses.

JoeHall
05-31-2014, 09:34 AM
The replacement seals damage very easily . The best way to install them is to have the valve out and install one end,the steel washer, then slide the valve through the middle. Push the valve through as far as you can without pushing the new seal out of the bore, and install the other new seal on the opposite end of the valve.
By doing this there is no poking or trying to push the seal and possibly damaging the outside sealing lip.
If your hoses are good, you don't have to disassemble everything to change the seals. Remove the end cap, and adjusting nut, remove the spring seat, spring, spacer, and other spring seat. On the front of the valve body remove the two 1/2" cap screws, and slide the valve body rearwards off the spool valve rod. Leav all the hoses attached, then replace the seals as described, and slide newly sealed valve back over the rod and reassemble in reverse order. You can change the seals in less than 1 hour!
It can be done on the car without having to pull the pitman arm, or having to disassemble any of the front section of the valve, or even have to remove any hoses.
Brad,
I have installed at least half a dozen of those seal kits on misc Studes over the years. Agree its fast, easy, and usually stops a leaking control valve. I also make a thin paper gasket for the aluminum end cap, and put an onion skin layer of Permatex #2 on both sides of the gasket. That usually stops even the occasional drip.

I also use STP power steering fluid, and have been since the mid 1990s. It make Bendix and Saginaw units steer smoother, and has never caused a problem. It also tends to reduce leaks, but not sure why, as it supposedly does not have a leak control additive. I avoid those additives like the plague.

Have never completely torn down a control valve, but Mikes article & pix give me enough confidence to tackle one if ever needed.

After reading this article, I am thinking of removing the end cap on the 62GT mentioned above, and tightening the nut a flat or two, to see if it speeds up steering response. Probably not till I get back from the trip though. Its been that way many miles and years, and wouldn't want to get into a can of worms at this point in time.

sbca96
05-31-2014, 02:59 PM
If your hoses are good, you don't have to disassemble everything to change the seals.

I was replacing the square rubber seal as well, the one I made above.


Have never completely torn down a control valve, but Mikes article & pix give me enough confidence to tackle one if ever needed

Mike?

Tom

Ira
09-16-2016, 05:16 PM
i have the pump, ram and control valve along with the rebuild kits for an Eaton Pwr Steering unit for 60 Hawk. I need someone who can rebuild all three for me if anyone can recommend. thanks