Transmission / Overdrive: Flightomatic diagnosis needed

[Scott]

I drove my 66 Cruiser the other day and noticed that the car will not move from a stand-still when in drive. I can use low and then shift to Drive to get it to shift up, but I can't start off in Drive. Interestingly, Drive will downshift to neutral when I slow down just fine. The fluid level is unknown (the dipstick is all cobbed up), but while driving I had no slippage happening.

The manual says nothing about this condition in a flightomatic (this is the water cooled version, by the way). For a model 35 it says the one-way clutch is slipping, but since the flightomatic is different, I don't know if that diagnosis would even apply.

The selector positions do not align properly with the letters on the quadrant on the steering post, so I know there is some adjustment needed there, too.

I know almost nil about automatic transmissions, so any comments are welcome.

[Johnnywiffer]

I had a similar problem with my '54 LC w/Flight-O-Matic. It was the front band. Replaced it and it works just fine. When I got it I had to take off in Low and shift to D and it worked OK. I replaced the old one with a NOS band.

But there is one you can get that is very flexible and can cut out the old band and use this one for a time. I think it's primarily used as a stop-gap thing to sell the car and hi-tail it outta there.

John

[Scott]

Wow, more than 90 people have read this and only one person has anything to offer? Is this really unknown?

[Rerun]

Scott,

This one is a bit unusual. 1st gear is achieved by applying the front clutch and the rear band. Intermediate is a combination of the front clutch and the front band. Since 1st works fine, it appears that the front clutch pack is OK. The issue is why the front band doesn't apply unless you are shifting from 1st. It could be a sticking front band servo that needs higher pressure to engage, or there could be a sticking spool or broken spring in the control valve. I would be inclined to adjust the front band (per the shop manual), change the fluid (including the torque converter), and make sure that it is re-filled to the proper level. All relatively inexpensive. If the problem persists, it time for a trip to the tranny shop.

[Mike Sal]

Scott, I sent you a follow up PM regarding the width of the dip stick. It's very important to ensure you've got the right amount of fluid in the tranny before you go wrenching on it. The older trannys are more sensitive to fluid volume than the newer ones.

My 66 commander did the same thing when I bought it. It was really low on fluid (leak at the shift shaft seal).
Mike Sal

[Jim B PEI]

Another thing not answered, nor questioned: is the 66 Cruiser a six cylinder with first gear start, or a V8 with second gear start? In 66 Cruisers could be either a 6 or a V8, whereas in 65 they were all V8, right? Its not clear how fast you have to be moving or revving before it will upshift by putting it in the 'D' position, and what actual gear it is going into. Selecting 'L' in a V8 car is doing something different (sortof) than selecting 'L' in a six cylinder car. I had a 2 speed Powerglide in a Chev once, that acted the very same way. It would not move in 'D' position, but 'R' and 'L' worked, and if I selected 'L' and exceeded the shift point for second (top) gear, it would shift and work normally...until it dropped below the down shift point, and then no traction--the engine would race, and not move the car, as if it was in neutral. Manually selecting L got 1st, engine braking and traction. Bands were slipping, and it needed a rebuild.

[Scott]

Well, my experience with flightomatics is that they start in second unless you're in low, of course. But isn't a flightomatic only a 2 speed? This transmission does have a significant leak when in operation and leaves a trail. It does not leak when sitting. We have not yet determined which seal is leaking. I suppose I could always add more fluid and hope I don't overfill. I'm working on getting another stock dipstick ASAP.

[Orestudeguy]

JIM,

the engine is a 283 V/8.

[showbizkid]

Scott, the Flight-O-Matic as used by Studebaker is a 3-speed transmission - it's essentially the same box as the Ford-O-Matic. It just seems like it's a 2-speed because Studebaker used a 2nd-gear start valve body.

If your trans leaks only when you're in motion, my guess / bet would be output shaft seal.

[Jim B PEI]

So it is a V8 transmission with second gear start instead of a six transmission with first gear start. Manually selecting L from a stop is getting the (usually not used with a V8) 1st gear instead of the usual 2nd gear in D position, and the mechanics of how it gets that gear is different. "Rerun" up above describes how it all works, so your front clutch pack as he says seems to be working, so it seems the Drive problem is a band or fluid pressure problem. Besides being low, there could be something impeding the pressure in the D position in the 2-3 channel that isn't apparent when it gets to 3. I suppose if you warm and drain the transmission, and refill to the correct level you might get rid of the blockage if there is one. The 56 shop manual describes the adjustments and air pressure tests to a Flightomatic

[Johnnywiffer]

Scott, the Flight-O-Matic as used by Studebaker is a 3-speed transmission - it's essentially the same box as the Ford-O-Matic. It just seems like it's a 2-speed because Studebaker used a 2nd-gear start valve body.

If your trans leaks only when you're in motion, my guess / bet would be output shaft seal.

There is a problem when you say "Ford-O-Matic" because there was an early and a late. While the early was a 3 speed, (that, I think, started in 2nd) the later one was only a 2 speed. The later 3-speed was called "Cruise-O-Matic (that, I think, started in 1st). Confused yet?

So compare the Flight-O-Matic to the early Ford-O-Matic or the Cruise-O-Matic but not the late Ford-O-Matic. Frankly, any GOOD trans guy would know the difference.


John

[Scott]

Thanks guys! At least now I have something to work with. I appreciate all the information.