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studelover
05-25-2007, 04:18 PM
Intake gross lift 300 degree of cam 230
'' ''
exhaust 300 230

running clearance gross lift
intake 014 valve lift degree of duration
447 294
exhaust 014 447 294
lobe center line 110

part number stude f31-10
This is the cam card for my R2+ cam, can anybody tell me what the seat to seat duration is for this cam?

Studebakers forever!

Mike Van Veghten
05-25-2007, 06:33 PM
Nope ---

Some may give you numbers...but...
While most cam grinders use similar ramps, to get the real seat to seat duration, you/someone has to actually measure it.
I've seen it many times...two cams use the same "advertized" duration but have different @.020" or @.050" durations.
By the way...that's another item to watch for, some use the .020" and some use .050" dimension for measuring cams.

Get out your degree wheel and dial indicator.

Actually...if you bought this cam from Ted Harbit...with some more information he may be able to give you the numbers you request.

Mike

shifter4
05-25-2007, 08:17 PM
Just checked the R2+ cam. Duration at .050 : 230/230 Lobe Lift .300
Seat to seat Duration 294/294 LDA 110 deg. This cam is from Fairborn just recently.

studelover
05-25-2007, 10:56 PM
shifter4 you are correct, I just got it from fairborn, if the seat to seat is 294 this is not the cam for me, to much duration. If I keep the cam the machist wsaid he will have to degree it to find out the duration. This will cost me another 150.00 for him to set this up. My question to the studebaker world is does this cam belong on the street or not? is there a R2+ cam with diffrent spec's then this one? I asked the Question of the forum months ago about the streetabilty of the r cams, give it to me correct which one will give me street performace.

Studebakers forever!

studelover
05-25-2007, 11:00 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten

Nope ---

Some may give you numbers...but...
While most cam grinders use similar ramps, to get the real seat to seat duration, you/someone has to actually measure it.
I've seen it many times...two cams use the same "advertized" duration but have different @.020" or @.050" durations.
By the way...that's another item to watch for, some use the .020" and some use .050" dimension for measuring cams.

Get out your degree wheel and dial indicator.What other numbers do you need? 74 overlap? int cl 105, exhcl 115, lobe sep 110 ol 74 =294 duration.

Actually...if you bought this cam from Ted Harbit...with some more information he may be able to give you the numbers you request.

Mike


Studebakers forever!

Karl
05-26-2007, 01:05 AM
That cam is perffectly streetable. The 294 adv/230 .050 means it has very mild ramps on the cam. Send Ted a P/M and ask him.No real reason degree. Unless your going to race it. As it was suggested in the cam talk thread put it in straight up and enjoy your car.If you still want a smaller cam talk Phil. I'm sure there are other cams available.

Just my few cents worth.;)

63 Twin Supercharged Avanti
64 Avanti R3w/NOS
88LSC Avanti 350 Supercharged w/NOS

PackardV8
05-26-2007, 01:26 AM
Greetings, studelover,

We're all Studelovers here and we're all trying to help. You are getting the same advice from experts; Ted Harbit, Karl, Mike - we all know that cam to be very easy to live with on the street in a hot 289".

Back in the bad old days, cams were ground with very mild ramps. An R2+ cam with 294 degrees seat-to-seat is a very different piece of machinery than a current CompCams ExtremeEnergy grind to which you may be comparing it. Studebaker wasn't the only one using mild ramps. The classic SBC Duntov and 350hp hydraulic cams had very long seat-to-seat duration, something like 306 degrees of advertised duration, but mild ramps.

If you are still feeling the R2+ might be too racy for your intended use, I'll be happy to buy it off you or swap it for a regular 225hp 289" reground cam.

thnx, jack vines.






PackardV8

Dick Steinkamp
05-26-2007, 08:43 PM
If you are still hoping to get 250+ HP out of that 289 you will need AT LEAST that cam...maybe even something wilder. If you want it to run like a ***** cat at all rpm ranges, your HP goal is probably too agressive.

If I were you, I'd talk to either Ted or Phil about your goals and let them give you advice on the "package" that would come closest to meeting them.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

studelover
05-26-2007, 10:53 PM
Dick, I have been talking with Phil that's who I got the cam from, everyone that is involved knows my goal. My goal cannot be met in the parameters I have set. I wanted 300 hp, can't get that unless I am willing to go to a compression ratio that's to high. I want to run mid grade or regular. The motor will make about 250 hp that's good enough however this seat to seat duration and these ramps on the stude heads is worrying my machinist, he compares the cubic inches of the ford 289 and how much compression and duration that blocks cam needed to achive 271, he showed me the spec's that motor needed a 3,000 stall to use with that cam which produces 271hp. No one here can tell me why the same math used to determine the duration of the ford motor doesen't appy to the stude motor. I am going to wait and see, after we get everything in and degree this cam and if it's to much duration I am going to have him remove it and I will get a isky cam. The cam card on that is easy to read , makes sense to him and me and it's a proven cam. I will use that r2+ for stopping my ford from rolling or something. No one here can give me a straight anwser on this cam, the ramps and it's measurements, no wonder everyone goes for a small block chevy, no head aches. If I would have only known:( To me it's so simple, does the cam have a set duration and lift that is consistant with every R2+ cam made or not because if everyone of these cams is diffrent I don't want it in my motor anyway.

Studebakers forever!

Alan
05-27-2007, 11:04 AM
studelover, don't despair. In cam nomenclature there are many different manufacturers way of reading the cards. Some go with .000" lift, like GM. Some with .006", like Iskenderian. Some at .050", like Crane. I have seen some at whatever the clearance adjustment is like .018" or .025". There realy is no R2 cam from Stude. Only an R1 cam used in both R1's and R2's. Which is 17-63 int. and 56-24 exh. P/N 1557663. All other R2 or R2+ cams are of other companies own house grinds, so they can call them what they want. The only way to find out what you have is to degree it in. Though if it came from Ted it should be a good cam.

PackardV8
05-27-2007, 01:47 PM
Hi, studelover,

End your misery. Wrap up the R2+ cam and send it to me. Just tell me how much and to what address to send the check or PayPal. Then, you can put in a cam you and your builder like the specs.

Jack Vines

PackardV8

studelover
05-27-2007, 03:58 PM
I think I understand now, this cam was never in production from a company. This is someones back yard grind that is a little better than the stock cam that's why there is no real set spec. I did not know this that's why no one is able to give me an answer. The machine shop told me that they could give me a grind that I would be happy with and I turned them down, after all they could give me a duration and lift that I could live with, anyone can regind the cam and get the spec's I want, I see now and I know exactly what to do;)

Studebakers forever!

JDP
05-27-2007, 05:22 PM
Having installed a half dozen R2 + cams I don't know why all the fuss is about. It's a very mild grind that works well in everything form a 259 to a warmed over supercharged R2 engine.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

Swifster
05-27-2007, 06:09 PM
If you want to play with cam grinds, get a copy of desk top dyno. But, this is just a numbers generator. Considering who has been involved in the cam, I'd consider this something other than a 'backyard' grind.

Just by their very nature, a 289 is not the same between Ford & Studebaker. You will not get 306HP out of a N/A Studebaker 289 like the Shelby version of the Ford 289. There is ten years worth of technology from Studebaker introducing their V8 family and the thinwall small block engine made by Ford. The displacement is all these two engines have in common. Chevy and AMC both made 327's, and these engines are not alike in their characteristics either.

Camshafts are the brains of the valvetrain. Head breathing, valve size, intake flow and carburetion will effect power output. You can run both engines with the same cam specs and get two very different results. Install the R2+ cam and enjoy the ride.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

PackardV8
05-27-2007, 06:54 PM
Hi, Swiftser,

Agree with most of what you said about the cams. I use DynoSim on the computer and it is as accurate as the air flow information entered into it.

As an aside, the 1965 Shelby/Ford 289" didn't make anything like 306 hp and the 289" HiPo didn't make 271 hp either. A look at their contemporary 1/4-mile times plugged into your DesktopDyno will prove this. They had similar lack-of-breathing issues that plague our Studebaker heads . I built a bunch of those buzzing little anvils back in the '60s and early '70s. None of the factory wedge heads made any real horsepower until the aftermarket came out with the good big-valve heads. Today, they make phenominal horsepower, but everything above the block deck is aftermarket.

thnx, jv.

PackardV8