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stoodie gasser
09-30-2005, 07:15 PM
Hi. I'm going to re-wire my '49 champion this winter and I'm in the process of gutting the exsisting wiring. There are two switches on the floor. One is the headlight dimmer, and there is another near the clutch pedal. The clutch pedal hits it when the pedal is pushed down. Does anyone know what that switch is for? Thanks.

rockne10
09-30-2005, 07:33 PM
That's the starter switch. Starter only operates when clutch is depressed. If it were an automatic the switch would be a pull switch under the dash.

chrysleritis
09-30-2005, 07:34 PM
That's your starter switch. It's supposed to be clever that way --
you have to push the clutch in to start the car.

stoodie gasser
09-30-2005, 11:58 PM
Thanks guys....and once again, this site is awesome.

BRUCESTUDE
10-01-2005, 01:45 PM
JUST MY PREFERENCE, BUT WHEN I REWIRED MY '52 COMMANDER, I ELIMINATED THE UNDER CLUTCH STARTER, AND REPLACED IT WITH AN ORIGINAL DASH UNIT. NOT CORRECT FOR A STICK, BUT IT LOOKED NICE, AND I LIKE A DASH MOUNTED SWITCH.

Walt Zander
10-02-2005, 09:23 AM
BRUCESTUDE. Like your dash starter switch idea. My '49 Champ will get the same treatment. Any advice on which type of switch ie: is one better than another? Considering a rewire for my Champ also--
any pitfalls that I should prepare or be aware of? Thanks.

'49 8G Coupe
Daily driver/ down at present. Rehab in progress. Needs help.

castlepk
10-02-2005, 10:27 PM
I ended up changing the floor starter switch in my '51 Champ to an original NOS (Automatic) pull type on the dash because every time I let someone else drive my car, They would slam the clutch pedal to the floor when shifting the car while driving, causing the starter to engage while the engine was running! After this had happened a few times I desided to disconnect the floor switch and replace it with an automatic type switch that I picked up at the York, PA swap meet. It was pretty easy since there was already a hole provided in the dash and I even found the correct "T" shaped handle for the switch. The only problem now is that the new "T" shaped pull starter handle and the "T" shaped handle to open the hood are right next to each other! You don't want to pull the wrong "T" shaped handle at the wrong time! Even though they are marked "HOOD" and "START" there is a chance you could grab the wrong one if you were not carefull, especially at night. So far I don't seem to have changed one problem for another (I guess I'm a little brighter than I gave myself credit for!). I really like the dash starter switch better than the floor one. It seems much more convienient to use.

Jim Caffrey
Rochester, NY
'51 Champ

N8N
10-03-2005, 07:54 PM
Now I have never worked on a Stude that old with a stickshift... but isn't there some kind of interlock to keep the starter from engaging with the engine running? Maybe a vacuum switch or similar?

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

GTtim
10-03-2005, 09:02 PM
Nate,

What are you thinking? Interlock? We are talking 1940's technology here. The auto makers of that era did not think drivers were idiots. They knew that only people with average intelligence or better drove cars. They did not have to put up with every stupid person expecting to find the exact same controls in the exact same place on every car made. Studebaker even did things just to be different even though it made no practical sense. Like the way the interior door handles have to be moved to open the doors on the '40's era cars. It's totally backwards.
As for the starter switch, only Studebaker and Nash used the under the clutch pedal type. I think it is one of the neatest thing about the marque. If I had one that other people couldn't master, I would install another switch in the circuit, mount it out of site (it could be located toward the middle of the car so I as passenger could switch it off for heavy footed drivers) and then the car would have an 'interlock' and theft prevention.
But that's just me.
Tim K.

Blue 15G
10-05-2005, 06:27 AM
It's all a matter of personal preference I guess, but I like the floorboard starter button in my '54 Champion. In my car, to activate the starter takes an extra long push with the leg to engage it. You simply don't have to push the clutch in as far to shift as you do to start the car, so accidental engagement of the starter while shifting in normal driving has never been a problem for me.

Transtar56
10-06-2005, 11:43 AM
"Average intelligence"
Did you know that 50% of the population is below average?

Dick Steinkamp
10-06-2005, 03:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by Transtar56

"Average intelligence"
Did you know that 50% of the population is below average?


50% is below the MEAN, but 50% may or may not be below the average (MEDIAN).

(beat you to it, Gary <g>)

-Dick-

(don't even ask about the MODE <g>)

GTtim
10-06-2005, 05:50 PM
"Average intelligence"
Did you know that 50% of the population is below average?

50% is below the MEAN, but 50% may or may not be below the average (MEDIAN).


When automobiles were in their infancy you had better be a good mechanic to own one or you'd be walking home a lot. Over the years things improved but even through the sixties you had to be aware of how your car worked or there would be cold mornings that you would not be able to make it go. Some cars required two or three pumps on the gas pedal while this same procedure would leave another car hopelessly flooded. Today, virtually any brain-dead imbecile can drive a car, just turn the key (they are all in the same place except for Saab) and away you go.
I think that todays cookie cutter cars are such a contrast to the diverse bunch of cars I grew up with in the 50's and 60's. Pushbutton transmissions, hillholders, seats that could be made into beds, tinted glass roofs, fake antennas sprouting over windshields, oval steering wheels, different shift patterns, instruments lit with electro-iluminescence light, the list can go on and on, from the sublime to the ridiculous. I'm not suggesting that manufacurers make cars difficult to operate but todays cars seem rather boring and with the electronics we have today just think of the gimics that could be produced if only any of the companies currently in the business had the gumption to do it.
Tim K.

rockne10
10-06-2005, 08:08 PM
I forgot to mention, if it were an automatic with a pull switch under the dash, it wouldn't be a 49, since automatics were first offerred in 1950.

BRUCESTUDE
10-08-2005, 11:36 PM
SORRY WALT- I SKIPPED MY COMPUTER TIME FOR A FEW DAYS. AS TO WHICH TYPE OF SWITCH, I FIRST USED A GENERIC PUSH BUTTON. IT LOOKED OK, SMALL ENOUGH THAT THE JUDGES MISSED IT! MY '52 HAS A GROUNDING SWITCH, INSTEAD OF A SWITCH THAT HAS A "HOT" LEAD; NO PROBLEM, JUST RUN THE WIRE TO A GOOD GROUND.
I LATER USED A STOCK START SWITCH FROM A '52 W/AD. IT LOOKS GREAT, BECAUSE IT MATCHES THE REST OF THE KNOBS.
I ALSO CHANGED MY '53 2R5 FROM A FLOOR SWITCH TO A KEY OPERATED TYPE, LIKE MOST "MODERN" CARS. I HAD TO CHANGE THE SOLENOID ON THIS ONE.

Dick Steinkamp
10-09-2005, 10:15 AM
quote:Originally posted by Blue 15G

It's all a matter of personal preference I guess, but I like the floorboard starter button in my '54 Champion. In my car, to activate the starter takes an extra long push with the leg to engage it. You simply don't have to push the clutch in as far to shift as you do to start the car, so accidental engagement of the starter while shifting in normal driving has never been a problem for me.


I left the floor starter button in my '54 Hot Rod. I consider it an "anti theft device" <grin>. I did remove the "tab" from the clutch pedal that normally activates the switch. I activate the switch directly with my foot (like you would the headlight dimmer switch). Eliminates any possible starter engagement with the clutch pedal.

-Dick-

1949commander
10-10-2005, 11:33 AM
I prefer the clutch start, it was Studebaker’s way to make sure you didn't start the car and have it take off since you forgot to take it out of gear. Packard and Buick used a switch on the accelerator, which engaged when you floor boarded the pedal. Nash also used the gearshift to start some models. You pulled up on the shift level when it was in neutral. It cracks me up that the new rage in cars is push button starters. You would swear it was a totally new concept. But by the 50's if your car didn't have key switch start it was considered old fashioned. Did you hear that some of the 2006 Mercedes models have eliminated the gearshift lever off the console? It is now done by a small toggle switch mounted near the steering wheel. This allowed for bigger cup holders in the console. Maybe the next new trend will be a convertible center roof (Skytop) for open air driving with the safety of a steel roof structure.:D

Restore it, don't replace it.Keep the Studebaker reproduction industry going

52-fan
05-21-2007, 06:06 PM
I know I am late to this thread having only recently checked out the forum, but I felt I had to respond in case any other new Stude owners read this post. I know the clutch activated starter is strange to someone who is not familiar with it, but my 52 Champion has functioned just fine for many years with that arrangement. Like was already mentioned, it is never necessary to push a properly adjusted clutch pedal all the way to the floor to shift smoothly. In all of my years of owning Old Spot I don't remember anyone ever engaging the starter by accident.
I also think it is kinda neat that your average non Studebaker person has no clue how to start the engine![8D]

!952 Champion Starlight since October,1971. !962 Daytona
since May, 2007.

lstude
05-21-2007, 08:40 PM
Someone had replaced the floor starter switch in my 52 Commander but I put in a new one so I can start it the way it was meant to.

If you think that arrangement is strange, I used to have a Buick with the starter button under the accelerator! [:0]

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/Mein64DaytonaatBradfieldssm2.jpghttp://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/52Commanderoutofgarage4-3.jpg

rockne10
05-21-2007, 08:52 PM
quote:Buick with the starter button under the accelerator!
I took my driver's test in a 59 Electra 225 Station Wagon. That thing weighed a couple ton; had the starter switch on the accelerator, even with automatic trans.
It's a shame it didn't have shocks to speak of. I think the test officer got seasick.

Brad Johnson
Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
http://www.4wheelz.net/virtual/images/rockne/1928_rockne03_f820_th.jpg'33 Rockne 10, '51 Commander Starlight, '53 Commander Starlight

lstude
05-21-2007, 09:08 PM
quote:I took my driver's test in a 59 Electra 225 Station Wagon. That thing weighed a couple ton; had the starter switch on the accelerator, even with automatic trans.
It's a shame it didn't have shocks to speak of. I think the test officer got seasick.

Brad Johnson

Interesting Brad, Mine was a 59 LeSabre convertible that I had when I was in high school.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/lstude1/Meby59Buickcc.jpg

rockne10
05-21-2007, 09:33 PM
And my high school ride was a '59 Dynamic 88 convertible; cost me $495. Never took any pictures of it but do have some memories of prom night. Sighhh!

Brad Johnson
Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
http://www.4wheelz.net/virtual/images/rockne/1928_rockne03_f820_th.jpg'33 Rockne 10, '51 Commander Starlight, '53 Commander Starlight

studebakerjeff
05-21-2007, 10:47 PM
My switch on the floor did not work and someone move it to the dash as a push button. I move it back to the floor and installed a kill switch on the dash so no one could start it if the switch was off and you could not ingage the starter unless it was on. When I take it to a show I use the kill switch so know one can start it even if I leave the keys in the car. Like you control the way you want it to be.


Jeff

1950 Champion business coupe
Home of Marshall

John Kirchhoff
05-22-2007, 09:13 AM
No offense intended Nate, but I had to laugh when you mentioned "interlock"! Back in the good old days, if you pulled a boo-boo, you suffered the consequences unlike today where if you're foolish enough to not wear your seatbelt, a dinger is going to drive you nuts telling you to do so and in case you're deaf, there's air bags to pop out just in case. I was watching some car show over the weekend (actually I just came in for a drink) where the car had some kind of little radar thing that would monitor the distance between you and the car in front, the bus, the tree, etc and if the direction, distance and the speed you were traveling didn't jive, the brakes went on automatically. That might be good for that deer jumping in front of you, but I wonder what it would think of a big fat junebug flying toward it's little electric eye....or some of Florida's famous lovebug swarms splattered all over it? If that thing ever threw craps, you could never get the car parked in the garage because it wouldn't let you get within 100 feet of the building. It'd sull like an old Jersey cow....

Speaking of floor starters, anyone remember the old trucks? Our '48 GMC 2 ton had a starter pedal just to the right of the gas pedal, that way you could mash the starter and work the gas pedal at the same time.

Guido
05-22-2007, 11:34 AM
My '52 Packard has the starter you engage by pushing down on the gas pedal. Our '55 Chevt truck had the large stem to the right of the gas pedal and my brother's '46 Willys has a button to the right of the pedal also. I just use my hand to engage it.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/53/453/1/21/36/2964121360097493054pVJTFL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/57/757/2/88/4/2023288040097493054SEKowB_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/18/19/8/37/21/2050837210097493054IYBJJL_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/559/1/43/57/2876143570097493054jKVhDw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/22/22/0/2/68/2589002680097493054ftBuBw_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/8/30/30/2075830300097493054aSSlFv_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/59/459/2/23/86/2067223860097493054YoeGMx_th.jpghttp://thumb14.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/18/33/2537518330097493054OgEKcN_th.jpg
Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

Studebaker horse drawn doctor’s buggy; Studebaker horse drawn “Izzer” buggy; 1946 M-16 fire truck; 1948 M-16 grain truck; 1949 2R17A fire truck; 1950 2R5 pickup; 1952 2R17A grain truck; 1952 Packard 200 4 door; 1955 E-38 grain truck; 1957 3E-40 flatbed; 1961 6E-28 grain truck; 1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck; 1962 7E-7 Champ pickup; 1962 GT Hawk 4 speed; 1963 8E-28 flatbed; 1964 Avanti R2 4 speed; 1964 Cruiser and various other "treasures" (including a 1959 IH B-120 4 wheel drive).

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

52-fan
05-22-2007, 12:59 PM
Just remembered that my 51 Dodge pickup had a toe button just above the accelerator pedal for starting. Actually worked quite well even after I converted it to 12 volts. Floor start was not so strange in the early 50's.

!952 Champion Starlight since October,1971. !962 Daytona
since May, 2007.

Magnum
05-22-2007, 11:11 PM
quote:Originally posted by Blue 15G

It's all a matter of personal preference I guess, but I like the floorboard starter button in my '54 Champion. In my car, to activate the starter takes an extra long push with the leg to engage it. You simply don't have to push the clutch in as far to shift as you do to start the car, so accidental engagement of the starter while shifting in normal driving has never been a problem for me.


I too like the clutch-activated starter on my truck. It took me a day or two of driving it to get used to not pushing the clutch all the way down, but after a while it kinda grew on me.

Now if only I could get that Hillholder to work.;)

Mike

Mike "Magnum" Harm
Fort Leavenworth, KS
http://home.kc.rr.com/harmfamily/images/Bucky%20avatar.JPG

skyway
05-23-2007, 12:08 PM
And of course you can always impress folks by magically starting the car with no hands.

lstude
05-23-2007, 07:54 PM
quote: And of course you can always impress folks by magically starting the car with no hands.

I am not sure that will impress people these days as some people are starting their cars from their bedroom!

mbstude
05-23-2007, 08:43 PM
quote:And of course you can always impress folks by magically starting the car with no hands.

One of my favorite things to do is take friends to the shop and crank up the '51 Starlight with my hands on the steering wheel. But, to most of them, it's no weirder than the column mounted gear shifter, or OD trans. :D


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar-5.jpg

JoeyD
08-30-2013, 10:32 AM
I bought my 1949 2R5 in 1976. It no longer had the switch on the floor. Instead, a firewall mounted starter solenoid was installed with a door bell button to activate it. A few years ago, I had to replace the solenoid (could not refurbish the disc any more) and found one at Tractor Supply for a Ford tractor. And just last year, I had to replace the door bell switch. Unlighted switches are hard to find, but ACE had one.

dictator27
08-30-2013, 11:17 AM
Since we're on the topic, how do you start an early 50's Nash with an automatic transmission? :)

Terry

41 Frank
08-30-2013, 11:30 AM
By pulling the gear shift lever towards you..

Since we're on the topic, how do you start an early 50's Nash with an automatic transmission? :)

Terry

dictator27
08-30-2013, 12:08 PM
By pulling the gear shift lever towards you..

In neutral only.

Terry

dictator27
08-30-2013, 12:12 PM
Where's park in a 47 Cadillac with Hydramatic? ;) :)

Terry

studegary
08-30-2013, 12:54 PM
Where's park in a 47 Cadillac with Hydramatic? ;) :)

Terry

If it is like a 1941 Cadillac, it doesn't have Park. The shifter is Neutral, High, Low, Reverse from left to right.

dictator27
08-30-2013, 01:13 PM
If it is like a 1941 Cadillac, it doesn't have Park. The shifter is Neutral, High, Low, Reverse from left to right.

That's correct, Gary. However, there is a way to lock the transmission so that the driver is not relying entirely on the handbrake to hold the car when not in use. Anyone?

It was the same in 1941.

Terry

41 Frank
08-30-2013, 01:37 PM
Before a park position came along in Hydramatics you would put the vehicle in reverse instead.

dictator27
08-30-2013, 01:56 PM
Before a park position came along in Hydramatics you would put the vehicle in reverse instead.

Jeez!! Can't get anything past you, Frank. :)

Terry

63 R2 Hawk
08-30-2013, 02:17 PM
My '32 Studebaker came with a Startix. The ignition has two only positions, off and run. When the key is turned on, the starter engages until it gets feedback from the generator that the engine is running and disengages the starter. When they worked right, the Startix was a cool idea, but, if the generator stopped working while you were driving the starter would engage, not something you really want. Very, very tricky to get them working correctly. I think Studebaker, Packard, Auburn, Cord, Duesenberg, Willys and several others, including British marques, used the Startix system, most were removed and replaced with regular solenoids.

41 Frank
08-30-2013, 03:55 PM
I never owned a Cadillac or a Nash but I had friends in my youth that drove these kind of cars, hence the knowledge. Now if I could just remember some of the more relevant stuff in life!

Jeez!! Can't get anything past you, Frank. :)

Terry

StudeRich
08-30-2013, 04:40 PM
The one that I think is the poorest and strangest is the old antiquated GM thing, I don't know how many GM Cars had them but all the old Chevy Cars and the Trucks up to early 1955 I believe, had the old mechanical lever under a round pedal to the right of the Gas Pedal that actually pushed into the Starter to engage the Starter Motor instead of a Solenoid. That's RIGHT...FOUR Pedals! Talk about Stupid.
This is something I could understand on a Model A, but a 1955 Chevy Truck? :eek: :ohmy: :(

So to start the Engine, you would have to side step the Gas pedal to the starter while holding the Clutch down with your other foot so you could not hold the Brake down unless you have three legs!

dictator27
08-31-2013, 10:36 AM
I never owned a Cadillac or a Nash but I had friends in my youth that drove these kind of cars, hence the knowledge. Now if I could just remember some of the more relevant stuff in life!

Frank, years ago (too many, actually) I was told by an attractive young lady that I was a walking encyclopedia of totally useless and entirely irrelevant information. Her words, not mine. I guess things haven't changed.

With that in mind, how do you start a Marmon Roosevelt? :)

Terry

Boothguy
08-31-2013, 12:09 PM
Hudsons of that period also used the startix system.
My '32 Studebaker came with a Startix. The ignition has two only positions, off and run. When the key is turned on, the starter engages until it gets feedback from the generator that the engine is running and disengages the starter. When they worked right, the Startix was a cool idea, but, if the generator stopped working while you were driving the starter would engage, not something you really want. Very, very tricky to get them working correctly. I think Studebaker, Packard, Auburn, Cord, Duesenberg, Willys and several others, including British marques, used the Startix system, most were removed and replaced with regular solenoids.

dictator27
08-31-2013, 12:35 PM
The one that I think is the poorest and strangest is the old antiquated GM thing, I don't know how many GM Cars had them but all the old Chevy Cars and the Trucks up to early 1955 I believe, had the old mechanical lever under a round pedal to the right of the Gas Pedal that actually pushed into the Starter to engage the Starter Motor instead of a Solenoid. That's RIGHT...FOUR Pedals! Talk about Stupid.
This is something I could understand on a Model A, but a 1955 Chevy Truck? :eek: :ohmy: :(

So to start the Engine, you would have to side step the Gas pedal to the starter while holding the Clutch down with your other foot so you could not hold the Brake down unless you have three legs!

You're out by five years, StudeRich. Chev and GMC trucks kept the foot pedal starter until the end of the 1960 model year. Buick kept the accelerator operated starter till then as well. The legend is this was because the man who came up with both ideas in the 1930's was still on the board of directors. He apparently died in 1960 and both systems were promptly dropped for 1961. Fact or fiction? I don't know, but that's what I heard.

Terry

dictator27
08-31-2013, 09:52 PM
I never owned a Cadillac or a Nash but I had friends in my youth that drove these kind of cars, hence the knowledge. Now if I could just remember some of the more relevant stuff in life!



The one that I think is the poorest and strangest is the old antiquated GM thing, I don't know how many GM Cars had them but all the old Chevy Cars and the Trucks up to early 1955 I believe, had the old mechanical lever under a round pedal to the right of the Gas Pedal that actually pushed into the Starter to engage the Starter Motor instead of a Solenoid. That's RIGHT...FOUR Pedals! Talk about Stupid.
This is something I could understand on a Model A, but a 1955 Chevy Truck? :eek: :ohmy: :(

So to start the Engine, you would have to side step the Gas pedal to the starter while holding the Clutch down with your other foot so you could not hold the Brake down unless you have three legs!


Frank, years ago (too many, actually) I was told by an attractive young lady that I was a walking encyclopedia of totally useless and entirely irrelevant information. Her words, not mine. I guess things haven't changed.

With that in mind, how do you start a Marmon Roosevelt? :)

Terry


Aw, c'mon! No takers? :) To start a Marmon Roosevelt you pull up on the horn button. Turning the button to the right turned on the lights, and, of course pushing it honked the horn. Reminds me of a 58 Edsel's heater control. Everything done by one knob.

Terry