Engine: Engine Rebuilders

[JohnM15]

Has anyone used these folks for engine rebuild?

http://jandm-machine.com/index.html

It looks like these folks do everything.

[JohnM15]

Just got an estimate from these guys to rebuild my M15A-20 Champion 6:

$5,500 - $6,800 depending on what they find when it is opened up and magnafluxed.

These folks do it all, re-size the rods, replace rod studs, replace head bolts, line bore the mains, resurface block and head, new pistons and rings, bone & hone cylinders, Sleeve cylinders if needed, turn & polish the crank, resurface intake & exhaust manifolds, turn the flywheel, replace flywheel ring gear, all new bearings, replace clutch & pressure plate, all new seals and gaskets, balancing, engine painted.

They claim that the engine would then be "re-manufactured" which they claim as better than rebuilt and new.

Oh yea, $400 shipping each way to/from Virginia

[mbstude]

Makes the completely rebuilt one I have for $3K seem like a steal.

[61Lark]

If I was going to send a Champ 6 out to get rebuilt the first place I'd call would be Cathcart Studebaker. He usually has an ad in the back of Turning Wheels.

Nick

[skyway]

"$5,500 - $6,800 depending on"

Yikes!

[JohnM15]

I agree this may seem high, especially if one just wants run of the mill job. But look at their site. Check out what they do. I have never seen a machinist "balance" and engine. I have not seen a machinist "re-size" the rods. I have never seen a run of the mill machinist measure the weight of each piston and rod and modify them so they all weight the same.

This is not a run of the mill shop. This would be the way to if one was building the ultimate...

[61Lark]

I have not seen a machinist "re-size" the rods. I have never seen a run of the mill machinist measure the weight of each piston and rod and modify them so they all weight the same.

If you're changing to a better rod bolt it is a definite recommendation to resize the rods. I had it done on my R1 and it didn't sound like it was anything out of the norm for the place I went to. Any machine shop shoud be able to weight and modify the pistons, rings and rods so each assembly weights the same. It is actually a fairly easy procedure, but it takes some time. I would look for a machine shop that specializes in engines.

Nick

[R2Andrea]

All that machine work they are talking about is normal for a proper engine rebuild by a reputable shop, and their shop equipment is typical for the trade. I don't know about prices for their area but they would be pretty expensive most any where else. I shudder at the thought of what they charged to do that Packard 4M2500.

[sals54]

OK, I'll be the one to be blunt. Those prices are stupidly high. It's a champ 6 for cryin out loud. Build the engine to run right. You won't have to spend half that at any good reputable shop. And as someone above noted already... call Cathcarts ! ! ! !

[ozarkman]

OK, I'll be the one to be blunt. Those prices are stupidly high. It's a champ 6 for cryin out loud. Build the engine to run right. You won't have to spend half that at any good reputable shop. And as someone above noted already... call Cathcarts ! ! ! !

I'd expect nothing less from ya Sal! If I had to do it again, I would go with Cathcart's. Too bad his website is down.

[PackardV8]

OK, I'll be the one to be blunt. Those prices are stupidly high. It's a champ 6 for cryin out loud.

Yes, for those ridiculously high prices, it could/should be the most precisely rebuilt Champion ever. With all that precision machine work, it would put out at least five more horsepower than the typical rebuild Champion and should run several thousand miles longer. Part of their high cost is they're really going beyond what a normal long block rebuild entails - resurfacing manifolds and flywheel, new ring gear, clutch and pressure plate, replacing rod bolts and head bolts, balancing. Nice to have but not always necessary or affordable.

No, as we used to say in the Army, back in the bad old days, "ya' can't spit shine a terd." Put $10,000 into a Champion and it is still a screaming little 100hp anvil. That kind of investment will buy 3X the Stude V8 horsepower and 5X the LX SBC horsepower.

Maybe, find out WIGO with Cathcart. If they aren't available, any reputable, experienced shop can do a long block rebuild for $3k.

jack vines

[JohnM15]

Jack, nail/head. $3k seems right for a standard rebuild. I'm still on the fence. I have about five options:

1. Super local machine shop: http://norpamachine.com/
2. Dale Spooner in Danville, VA (4 hr drive) http://www.motionmachineinc.com/index.html, More info: http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Motion-Machine.htm
3. Sykes Machine shop in Fredericksburg VA. (no web site)
4. Cathcart in CT. (web site broken)
5. J & M Machine in MA.: http://jandm-machine.com/index.html

I have used NORPA in the past. They are mediocre. Once they did my heads on a 351M ford and they mixed up the valve springs. The exhaust are different length than the intake. Engine would run for 30 seconds and the push rods would bend on the cylinders where the valve springs would not compress all the way... But they are close, about a mile away. If I went with them I would do everything but the machining whereas others such as J & M do everything...

[jlmccuan]

I agree this may seem high, especially if one just wants run of the mill job. But look at their site. Check out what they do. I have never seen a machinist "balance" and engine. I have not seen a machinist "re-size" the rods. I have never seen a run of the mill machinist measure the weight of each piston and rod and modify them so they all weight the same.

This is not a run of the mill shop. This would be the way to if one was building the ultimate...

Any place I take my parts to WON'T do a job without the "special" services listed.

[JohnM15]

All the shops I have contacted locally would piece meal anything I wanted. If I take a block in I can get a bore & hone and if I didn't ask for the cam bearings to be replaced they would not replace them, they could care less about the overall outcome. When I ask about line boring the mains I get " we don't do that but we can send it out to be done".

On the other hand, J & M said they will not piece meal. They would only do a complete job. The only think they would not perform to reduce cost was balancing. They insisted that the rods need to be straightened. They said "rods this old always need to be straightened. I appears that they are interested in the overall outcome.

[DEEPNHOCK]

That's one way to separate the tire kickers from the real buyers.
Betcha a bottle of 1787 Chateau Lafite that their shop is full with a waiting list a mile long..

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On the other hand, J & M said they will not piece meal. They would only do a complete job.
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