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View Full Version : VS57 CONNECTIONS? 58 HAWK



don samborski
05-21-2007, 03:51 PM
ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF CARB BLOWER HOUSING. FUEL LINE COMES UP THROUGH BOTTOM TO CARB..RIGHT TO THE LEFT IS A SMALL STEEL LINE THAT SHOWS IN MANUEL AND THE LIMIT PICTURES I TOOK BEFORE DISASSEMBLING. CAN SOME ONE TELL ME WHERE THAT LINE GOES? I AM THINKING IT IS MODIFIER LINE THE MANUEL SPEAKS OF BUT DOESN'T SHOW ANYMORE.
IN THE MANUEL IT ALSO SHOWS A PRESSURE LINE THAT IS SUPPOSED TO GO TO FUEL PUMP...MY FUEL PUMP DOESN'T HAVE CONNECTION FOR ANYTHING LIKE THAT....

THANKS, DON

JDP
05-21-2007, 03:58 PM
The choke and vacuum line both come out of the box too. BTW, you need to buy a Golden Hawk fuel pump or drill and tap the one you have. There should be a flat boss on the top of your pump where the fitting goes.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

don samborski
05-21-2007, 04:13 PM
JDP:

DOES THAT LINE JUST TAP INTO THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUSING BASE? SO WHEN THE BOX IS PRESSURISED IT PRESSURIZES THE FUEL PUMP ALSO?

don samborski
05-21-2007, 04:15 PM
JDP:

WHEN THROUGH MY SPARE PARTS BOX...FOUND THE ORIGINAL FUEL PUMP WITH GLASS BOWL....SHOULD I USE THAT PUMP OR JUST CHANGE THE TOP ON THE NEW STYLE PUMP? I AM TRYING TO KEEP EVERY THING AS ORIGINAL AS POSSABLE... IF I DON'T USE THE GLASS BOWL PUMP WOULD IF BE A BIG DEAL??

DON,.

JDP
05-21-2007, 04:29 PM
If you can just add the supercharged top that'll be fine too, but it may not interchange.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

don samborski
05-21-2007, 04:42 PM
JDP:

THANKS FOR THE HELP....JUST ONE MORE THING...IS THAT THE SMALL LINE BETWEEN THE VACUUM LINE AND FUEL LINE...AND DOES IT JUST GO TO THE BOTTOM OF THE BOX THEN TO THE FUEL PUMP?

JDP
05-21-2007, 05:46 PM
Not sure, maybe the vacuum/pressure gage. The fuel pump hose goes on the small nipple on the supercharger outlet.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

don samborski
05-21-2007, 09:16 PM
JDP:

YAH...I FINALLY FIGURED THAT OUT.....I THOUGHT THE LINE I WAS LOOKING AT WAS MAYBE FOR THE VACUUM GAUGE..THE MANUEL AND PARTS BOOK DON'T SHOW WHERE THE VACUUM GAUGE HOOKS UP.
ALSO IT WAS EASIER TO JUST TAP IN THE TOP OF THE NEWER FUEL PUMP..IT MUST HAVE BEEN REPLACED AT ONE TIME AND SUPER CHARGER WAS REMOVED SO THEY DIDN'T NEED THE PRESSURE LINE TO THE FUEL PUMP.

don samborski
05-21-2007, 09:20 PM
IF THE VACUUM GAUGE LINE IS TAPPED INTO BASE OF THE HOUSING AROUND THE CARB...I CAN SEE HOW IT COULD SHOW PRESSURE...BUT IF THERE WAS A VACUUM THE SMALL FLAPPER VALVE WOULD OPEN, AND THEN LOSE VACUUM, SO IT COULDN'T EVER SHOW A VACUUM.?????

Mike
05-22-2007, 08:13 AM
I took a look at my '57 Golden Hawk setup, this morning. There may be some changes for '58.
I'll use "Left and Right" as from the drivers position.
The fuel line enters the bottom plate at the left front corner. There is a short loop inside the housing, from the base plate to the carb inlet.
The two idle mixture adjusters enter the base plate at angles, in front.
To the right of the carb base is a hole for the choke stove "well". A tube extends from the choke housing into this "well". There are no tubes outside the pressure box, for the choke, on mine.
Just to the right of the choke stove is a small, restricted fitting that goes out the bottom. A small tube runs from that, to the front of the engine. It's there to drain fuel from the floor of the pressure box when the carb floods. Could this be the line you are wondering about?
The line to the distributor vacuum advance goes through the base plate at the rear, in a manner similar to the fuel line.
I think the line to the vac/press gauge in the dash connects to the fitting on the manifold at the left rear.
Mike M.

John Kirchhoff
05-22-2007, 09:55 AM
Flapper valve? Not sure what you're talking about. The gauge itself is air tight and isn't going to loose any vacuum or pressure (unless it's damaged). There's a port on the intake manifold that is plumbed into the Hydrovac on other models, your vacuum-pressure gauge could be plumbed into this also. This location would give the actual pressure-vacuum the engine was actually making use of whereas if plumbed into the blower housing, it's going to show the pressure between the supercharger and the carb's butterfly valve which could be extremely inaccurate. Volume + restriction = pressure, so a situation like letting up on the gas pedal while coasting down hill at high speed is going to show a very high pressure reading in the carb box but vacuum in the intake manifold. Your gauge being plumbed before the butterfly valve is going to basically monitor the supercharger and ignore the engine while after it will monitor what's actually going on engine wise.

Mike
05-22-2007, 10:52 AM
The "flapper valve" is a disc on a spring lever that blocks a hole in the pressure box when the supercharger is producing boost. When the engine is off, it opens, to vent fumes. Otherwise there was a hot restart problem. US Patent # 2756735 explains it.
Early '57's used two flapper valves, one in the top and one in the base, (cross ventilation!). Later versions have only one, and the drain tube I mentioned.
The little Stude vac/press gauge reads manifold vacuum or boost. McCulloch and Paxton recommended a boost gauge connected to the supercharger output, and a fuel pressure gauge, as well as a manifold vac/press gauge. There's a boss for a connection at the supercharger inlet and at least one plug in the pressure box, for more tests.
Mike M.

don samborski
05-22-2007, 01:03 PM
MIKE:

THANKS, I THINK THE LINE I'M CONCERNED ABOUT WOULD BE THE DRAIN LINE YOU MENTIONED....DID YOU MENTION WHERE IT DRAINS TO? IT COULDN'T BE AN OPEN LINE BECAUSE THE CARB BOX THEN WOULDN'T BEABLE TO PRESSURIZE,,,RIGHT??
YOU LOST ME ON THE OTHER GUAGES...FUEL ETC. THESE ARE ADDS????
I'LL HAVE TO TRY AND FIND THE SPOT ON THE MANIFOLD WHERE THE VAC GUAGE CONNECTS.....
BY THE WAY THE 58 FUEL LINE COMES IN THE BOTTOM OF HOUSING ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE AS YOURS, RIGHT NEXT TO THE DRAIN LINE.

DON.

StudeRich
05-22-2007, 03:12 PM
Don; the drain tube in the bottom of the air box reduces down to the tiniest line you have ever seen, and clamps to the timing gear cover
or oil pan to drain at the bottom of the engine to the ground. The bleed pressure volume is so small, as to not have an effect on performance! [:0]


quote:Originally posted by don samborski

I THINK THE LINE I'M CONCERNED ABOUT WOULD BE THE DRAIN LINE YOU MENTIONED....DID YOU MENTION WHERE IT DRAINS TO? IT COULDN'T BE AN OPEN LINE BECAUSE THE CARB BOX THEN WOULDN'T BEABLE TO PRESSURIZE,,,RIGHT??


StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

Mike
05-22-2007, 04:26 PM
The "Chassis Parts Catalog" for 55-58 Studebaker has all the supercharger parts. Some are scattered. Descriptions aren't always the greatest. I can measure tube and fitting sizes if you need to make the parts. Mine are on the bench, somewhere.
The tube is open ended. As "StudeRich" says, it's very small, and the adaptor in the air box has a restriction; so it leaks very little.
There's:
1543107 Pipe w/nuts, air chamber base drain, (only one nut, I think).
1543108 Nipple, pipe (base end)
643335 Clip, to timing gear cover
The extra gauges I mentioned are add ons. McCulloch and Paxton sold them. Authentic examples are very hard to find.
I thought I remembered something about '58's having a different fuel line. Does it enter the air box through a grommet? How about the line to the vacuum advance, (modifier)?
Mike M.

don samborski
05-22-2007, 10:43 PM
MIKE:
YES THE FUEL LINES ON THE 58 ENTER THROUGHT A GROMMET LIKE THE VACUUM LINE TO THE DISTRIBUTOR.

don samborski
05-22-2007, 10:49 PM
1543107 Pipe w/nuts, air chamber base drain, (only one nut, I think).
1543108 Nipple, pipe (base end)
643335 Clip, to timing gear cover

I STILL HAVE THE CLIP ON THE TIMEING GEAR COVER.....I WAS WONDERING WHAT IT WAS FOR.....I'LL SEE IF ANY ONE HAS THE OTHER PARTS I CAN PURCHASE....IS THE BASE DRAIN WITH RESTRICTION A MAJOR DESIGN???

DOES THIS WHOLE THING JUST DRAIN TO BELOW THE TIMING GEAR COVER SOMEWHERE???

YOU'VE BEEN A GREAT HELP... DON.

don samborski
05-22-2007, 10:52 PM
The "Chassis Parts Catalog" for 55-58 Studebaker has all the supercharger parts. Some are scattered. Descriptions aren't always the greatest. I can measure tube and fitting sizes if you need to make the parts. Mine are on the bench, somewhere.
The tube is open ended. As "StudeRich" says, it's very small, and the adaptor in the air box has a restriction; so it leaks very little.
There's:
IF YOU COULD DO THIS FOR ME WOULD BE GREAT!!!!!!

THANKS, DON.

Mike
05-23-2007, 07:09 AM
The WHOLE THING JUST DRAINs TO BELOW THE TIMING GEAR COVER SOMEWHERE!
I removed the fitting from the airbox, this morning. I'll look it over more carefully this evening; and be more precise in the description.
For now:
I think it has a Weatherhead logo on it.
It has a restriction, maybe .040".
It accepts a flared tube, smaller than 3/16"
Wrench size seems to be 13/32"!

You could solder up a standard fitting and drill the small passage.
The tube wasn't with the others I saved. I may not be able to find it. The parts book lists one "#G137395, Nut, pipe 1/8", associated with the tube; so I gather it's 1/8" tubing, with an inverted flare on one end.
The earlier Golden Hawks used passages in the air box base for the fuel and vac advance lines. They have brass adaptors inside and out, for flared lines. Short tubes inside the box go from the base plate to the carb.
More later.
Mike M.

don samborski
05-23-2007, 10:21 AM
MIKE:

I AM SURE I FOUND THE FITTING YOUR TALKING ABOUT.....BRASS FITTING WITH VERY SMALL HOLE...AND IT DOES SCREW INTO THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUSING....THE TUBING IS SMALL WITH NO FITTING ON ONE END.
I KIND OF THOUGHT THAT IT WAS THE PIECE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, BUT IT DIDN'T SEEM TO FIT INTO THE OPENING ON THE BASE...WHEN I TOOK IT APART FROM THE FLARED FITTING I COULD FIT IT UP UNDER BASE EASIER AND IT SCREWED RIGHT IN......
THIS IS GREAT ....PROBLEMED SOLVED FOR NOW.......THANKS ABUNCH FOR THE INPUT......DON ...

don samborski
05-23-2007, 10:27 AM
JOHN MENTIONED PORT ON INTAKE MANIFOLD FOR THE PRESS/VAC GUAGE.....I'LL HAVE TO SEE IF I CAN FIND IT....IT SHOULD BE THERE AND OPEN.....BECAUSE IT IS ORIGINAL MANIFOLD ETC.....

DON.

Mike
05-23-2007, 04:13 PM
It sounds like you found the fitting for the airbox drain and the tube. That's great!
All the Stude intakes I've seen have a 1/4" NPT hole in the top, at the left rear. On my Avanti, there are fittings there that feed the vac/press gauge, throttle kicker and brake booster. The Golden Hawk would have had a "T" for the brake booster, and probably a smooth hose nipple for the vacuum hose to the gauge.
The fitting for the drain adapts 1/8" flared tubing to 1/8" NPT male, with a .042" restriction. Wrench size is 13/32".

Mike M.

don samborski
05-23-2007, 07:43 PM
THANKS MIKE;

YES I EVEN HAVE THE FITTING WITH THE CONNECTION FOR THE HOSE AND BRAKE BOOSTER....

THANKS AGAIN.....