PDA

View Full Version : Wheel cylinders - bleed valve



studeclunker
09-05-2006, 11:17 PM
I just had a very frustrating problem. I was just about done bleeding the brakes on my Daytona Wagon. Then... The bleeder valve broke on my right front wheel cylinder. It tightens up and still squirts brake fluid. I guess this means the seat at the bottom isn't any good. @#*%##@@@ rust!:(

Anybody else have this kind of problem?

I was reeeeally looking forward to driving this wagon too.:(

Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

gecoe
09-05-2006, 11:27 PM
When I redid my brakes awhile back I discovered that one-way bleeder valves are now available. They look exactly like the old type but allow bleeding by yourself without messing with the tube and fluid filled jar. Just open them, use some type of hose & container to keep things clean and pump away. When it's bled, tighten it up and move on. The best part is they're cheap.

Gerry
NE Colorado

studeclunker
09-06-2006, 04:53 AM
Tube and fluid filled jar? You mean there's an easier and less messy way to do this miserable job?

How do you fit the tube on to the valve? Can I use rubber hose, the clear kind like for Aquariums? This forum is, like Mum used to put it, absolutely kippers!

Am I displaying my ignorance and inexperiance?[:0] Good!:D

By the by, Gecoe, you made my day! Thanks.
Now... How exactly does one set up that hose? What kind of hose does one use?


Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

Skip Lackie
09-06-2006, 08:59 AM
Transparent aquarium tubing will do fine, as long as it makes a nice airtight seal on the bleeder -- buy a size that's a tight fit on the little nipple end of the bleeder. Put the other end in a jar half filled with brake fluid -- the end must be below the surface. Bleed till no more bubbles are visible in the tube (that's why two people are valuable). If you route the hose so that it goes UP from the bleeder, you can usually do it with one person, as the bubble(s) will still be visible in the hose. If the hose is still immersed in the fluid, any suck-back into the cylinder will be fluid, not air. BTW, they sell cheap little kits at most FLAPS whose principal attribute is that they keep the hose end immersed in fluid.

Ignorance and inexperience? You think you're the only one?
Skip Lackie

hank63
09-06-2006, 09:06 AM
Well, I use a clear thin-walled plastic hose that has a snug fit over the bleeding nipple. The hose is long enough to go into a plastic bottle standing on the ground (floor). I bought the hose in the local hardware store (verrry cheap). Thin and flexible hose means less mucking about with the spanner you use to open/close the nipple.
With a clear hose one can see the fluid as it squirts out, and the fluid doesn't end up all over the place. But, watch how you move about, it's rather easy to knock over the bottle and un-do all the good, environmentally friendly work.
/H

gecoe
09-06-2006, 09:26 AM
Pick up a set of those one-way bleeder valves at your FLAPS and this job gets close to being fun. They won't allow air to suck back when the pedal is let up. Therefore, you don't have to continually open and close the valve between pedal strokes. Just leave it open until you're through. I should have mentioned the clear hose as it allows you to see when there are no more bubbles. As has been mentioned here, cheap clear hose that just slips over the nipple works great.

Gerry
NE Colorado

ROADRACELARK
09-06-2006, 12:41 PM
FWIW...loosen the bleed screw just enough for the fluid to come out... if you loosen it too much, air can be sucked back in around the threads. That's why "pressure bleeding" is the prefered method when you have the right equipment. Hope this helps.:)
Dan Miller

[img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
Road Racers turn left AND right.

Laemmle
09-06-2006, 05:20 PM
Russell Speed Bleeders...they are magic!

studeclunker
09-06-2006, 10:26 PM
You guys are the greatest! Thanks.:D I'll try all of this on my pickup. The wagon will have to wait. New cylinders will simply be too dear right now.

Now the pickup on the other hand...;)

Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

chrysleritis
09-06-2006, 11:22 PM
Using clear plastic tubing (aquarium like stuff, Tygon) and DOT 3 brake fluid causes the tubing to get rock-hard rigid after a bleed job or two when you've let the hose sit a couple months. Must be some chemistry thing with the DOT 3 attacking the softening compounds. Then when you go get the tubing out of the cardboard box in the garage to do another one, the tubing just doesn't slip over the bleeder screw nipple and form a seal. But using surgical style silicone tubing seems impervious to the DOT3 brake fluid. I also enthusiastically recommend the Speed Bleeders, which have a little ball check valve in the bleeder screw. Turns it into a one person job even without a pressure bleeder. Always be careful not to overtighten any bleeder screw.

StudeRich
09-07-2006, 03:05 AM
Dot 3? ... who's using that moisture absorbing junk in a Stude with $250.00 worth of new Hydraulic cylinders on it? :DI know it's contraversial since the auto makers have refused to approve it, BUT many of us have been using Silicone Dot 5, for over 25 years with no more servicing or replacement of cylinders required. Could it be that they just want to sell new cylinders? nah... they wouldn't do that...would they? [}:)][}:)]:(


quote:Originally posted by chrysleritis

Using clear plastic tubing (aquarium like stuff, Tygon) and DOT 3 brake fluid causes the tubing to get rock-hard rigid after a bleed job or two

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

studeclunker
09-07-2006, 10:14 PM
Will dot5 affect the tubing the same way? Is it possible to get through the job without problems? If so, I'll just throw the tubing away when done.

What are Russel Speed Bleeders and where does one get them?

Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

StudeRich
09-08-2006, 11:16 AM
Ron; YES, Dot 3 absorbs water, Dot 5 Repels it! So if moisture condenses in your system, it will rust not only cylinders, but steel tubing as well. Only two cautions, though. YOU MUST throughly clean and remove all traces of Dot 3. That means all 5 cylinders need to be clean and or replaced, rinse out lines with alcohol or BrakeClean, then dry with compressed Air before installing Dot 5 for best results. Item 2, in 6 mos. to 1 year you may have stoplight switch failure, it seems that a plastic part or something in the switches fails, no big deal. You can make a bracket to mount a GM or Ford (normally open)plunger type stoplight switch under the pedal, very easy on '61-'66 Lark types. NAPA has quarts of Silicone Brake Fluid, I do not know anything about the special bleeder valves, I do it the old fashioned way, by begging someone to pump the pedal while using the bottle and hose, it is still the most reliable, safest way.
OHHHH ! [:0]I'll bet you're talking about the PLASTIC bleeder tubing! NO, I do not believe it is affected by silicone.
StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

hank63
09-09-2006, 10:19 AM
Who cares if the plastic hose deteriorates. It's so cheap, it's no hardship to buy another piece. The hardware price is cents per meter or yard, not dollars.
/H

curt
09-09-2006, 09:42 PM
I do not like the thought of DOT 5 in my car. The position of the master cylinder sats H20 in the system.

StudeRich
09-14-2006, 03:25 AM
What does "SATS H2O IN THE SYSTEM" mean? Do you mean water gets in?
You must do a lot of underwater driving! LOL:D


quote:Originally posted by curt

I do not like the thought of DOT 5 in my car. The position of the master cylinder sats H20 in the system.


StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

bams50
09-14-2006, 06:27 AM
If you mean "collects" H20, I thought DOT 5 REPELS water?

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

GinettaG12P
10-27-2014, 06:32 PM
For many years I've used a one-man technique without the "one-way" bleed valves. I use clear plastic tubing the fits snugly over the bleeder valve. I make an inverted "U" out of the tubing and hang the tubing on a convenient spot a foot or more above the bleeder. The open end of the tubing then goes into a convenient container on the floor. To bleed the brakes, I crack the bleeder valve and any fluid that comes out of the brake cylinder goes up the tubing, creating a pressure head. Any air in the lines or brake cylinder moves to the top of the tubing. When I let off on the master cylinder, the column of brake fluid above the bleeder valve is drawn back into the brake cylinder. A few pumps will show whether there is still air in the system.

altair
10-28-2014, 09:02 AM
Here in the Pacific Northwest water vapor is a way of life with frequent days of 100% humidity. Water vapor in the brake system is unavoidable. Every time the brakes are applied a small amount of water vapor is induced into the system through the vent. Dot 3 or Dot 5 will not matter the water vapor will still get in and settle in the bottom of the cylinders. To avoid rusting issues it would be advisable to bleed the water out at regular intervals, however no body does that. When a brake job is done we button it up and forget about it. The moisture will gradually creeps in with every brake application.

53commander
10-28-2014, 09:13 AM
I agree with altair 100% and FYI many manufacturers recommend a fluid change at regular intervals. I work at a dealer and have seen my fair share of fluid flush service specials that you "absolutely need" but the only two that I will stand behind are the brake flush and power steering flush. I have a vacuum bleeder for brakes and it makes quick work of bleeding or flushing a whole system. It has an adapter that attaches to the master cylinder so it refills automatically as the old fluid is drawn through.

Warren Webb
10-28-2014, 10:16 AM
I have a vacuum bleeder that Clark had recommended using some time ago. I bought it at Harbor Freight so it's not a ton of money & works great. Use the search function here & I'm sure you'll find it.

njonkman
10-28-2014, 10:20 AM
I think you all have missed the question. Ron said he could not get the bleeder to stop letting fluid out. That means the bleeder was not seating for some reason. In that case there must be something under the screw tip. He should take it out and check the tip and hole for some piece of dirt. Otherwise there should be no reason for it not to shut off. Replacing the valve is not a bad idea. In my 50+ years of being a licensed mechanic I have always kept an assortment of bleeder screws on hand and replaced any that took a lot of stress to get loose or those that were rusted full. A flake of rust from the screw can easily get trapped under the point of the screw causing his problem. So take the screw right out and let some fluid flush out the hole/seat. And yes it is wise to flush the system every few years. Back in my younger days, talking around 1960s I used to buy fluid in 5 gal pails. In order to pour it we would punch a tiny vent hole in the top opposite the spout. Well one time when getting near the bottom of the container, maybe 4" or so I had done a brake job on a car and after a few days the brakes were not working as they should. Bled them again and out came water. Checked my container by pouring it out into a tub and I had about an inch of water in it. Needles to say we threw that out and from then on bought brake fluid in smaller containers that could be sealed up air tight.

53commander
10-28-2014, 03:01 PM
Well since this thread is eight years old I should hope it's fixed by now :ohmy:

StudeRich
10-28-2014, 04:50 PM
/Cut/ I have a vacuum bleeder for brakes and it makes quick work of bleeding or flushing a whole system. It has an adapter that attaches to the master cylinder so it refills automatically as the old fluid is drawn through.

Hey Rich. how about explaining which type of Vacuum bleeder you have? WHERE does it connect, and can we still buy one?

Back in the Day there were all kinds of cool Pressure bleeders that were made to fit the few standard Masters like our under the floor ones.
At the Richfield Station I worked at, we had a round Ball with a hose with a disconnect like a Air Hose that connected to 3 or 4 different adapters one of which fit our under the floor jobs, inside the Ball was a Diaphragm that separated the Fluid from the Air Pressure and a hose to reach the L/F Tire with a Tire valve fitting. There was a chain on it to hang it under the dash and bleed away! The 32 PSI would flush, Bleed, and Clean the whole system very quick and easy. :)

However, TODAY they are all universal and do not fit any M/C. Is this just a Vacuum pump like Warren got at Harbor Freight?
If so how, could it connect to the M/C vs a Wheel Cylinder Bleeder?

RadioRoy
10-28-2014, 06:11 PM
I found one of those round balls at a swap meet years ago. Pretty cool tool, but too old and contaminated to use.

I bought a mighty-vac hand operated vacuum pump, but every time I tried to use it, it did not seem to suck the fluid out. I always resort to the clear tube going into the clear jar, and pumping the brake pedal slowly.

53commander
10-28-2014, 10:05 PM
Hey Rich. how about explaining which type of Vacuum bleeder you have? WHERE does it connect, and can we still buy one?

Back in the Day there were all kinds of cool Pressure bleeders that were made to fit the few standard Masters like our under the floor ones.
At the Richfield Station I worked at, we had a round Ball with a hose with a disconnect like a Air Hose that connected to 3 or 4 different adapters one of which fit our under the floor jobs, inside the Ball was a Diaphragm that separated the Fluid from the Air Pressure and a hose to reach the L/F Tire with a Tire valve fitting. There was a chain on it to hang it under the dash and bleed away! The 32 PSI would flush, Bleed, and Clean the whole system very quick and easy. :)

However, TODAY they are all universal and do not fit any M/C. Is this just a Vacuum pump like Warren got at Harbor Freight?
If so how, could it connect to the M/C vs a Wheel Cylinder Bleeder?


Here is one like I have http://www.sears.com/mityvac-vacuum-brake-bleeder-compress-air-operated-bleeds/p-00942276000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=00942276000&kispla=00942276000P&kpid=00942276000&mktRedirect=y

Here is the Harbor Freight version http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-fluid-bleeder-92924.html

The master cylinder adapter basically just holds any size bottle of brake fluid upside down and refills the fluid level as it drops. I use it all the time at work and it's fast and easy, especially after having installed all new brake lines, calipers, wheel cylinders, etc.

StudeRich
10-29-2014, 02:41 AM
Thanks Rich. that looks like the one to have for sure. :!: I show it here at $124.00, but it should be worth the time and frustration saved.

I am pretty tired of doing it the hard way with two people. :(

53commander
10-29-2014, 09:42 AM
Oh and mine came with another hose/wand so you can use it as a fluid extractor. Honestly I haven't ever used it for that but it may be handy for some.

doofus
10-30-2014, 12:43 PM
Hey Studeclunker is that a 56 wagon (Ol Bess) i see? i have a 56 pelham i'm repowering with r-1. Will have some guages and outside trim peices left over pm if interested Doofus